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Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro - Page 6

post #201 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You'd have to ask AMD. The cost would be lowered because they're not good enough! Intel just keeps outstripping them.

Oh no doubt Intel makes faster chips . The new AMD Opteron 6380 16 core is an extremely quick chip though. Check this out;

 

4 x Opteron 6380's 4,184.00

Corsair Vegeance 128GB 1,059.08

Tyran SP5100 motherboard 1,202.48

OCZ Revo 480GB SSD 766.99

2 x Nvidia Quadro K4000 1,598

Nvdia Tesla C2050 1,250.00

5 x Seagate SAS Cheetah 15k 600GB 1,345.00

ISTARUSA BPN-DE350SS Raid enclosure 71.00

Case Xigmatek Elysium 216.00

CoolMaster Silent Pro 1500W 280.00

Total = 11,972.55

 

2 Intel E5-2690's 4,360.00, do to the 4 x 16, 64 cores, it would actually take 2 Intel Xeon E5-4690's at a whopping 12,260 to match the performance. Well 3 processors but buying 3 would be just nuts.

 

Crazy huh!


Edited by Relic - 6/11/13 at 2:08pm
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post #202 of 1290

MacPro Server Room:

 

 

post #203 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by threadbear View Post

MacPro Server Room:

 

 

 

In reality, Mac Pro server rooms will be interesting to watch.

 

The shelving will be 7" wide, and the machines placed with the back panel facing outward. I imagine the shelves will have to slide out to swap components.

 

On the other hand, the power supply is internal, which is a significant problem for server farms.

 

I really did think that the new Pro would have been more rack-friendly, given that the Xserve was discontinued.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #204 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

In reality, Mac Pro server rooms will be interesting to watch.... I really did think that the new Pro would have been more rack-friendly, given that the Xserve was discontinued.

I have doubts MacPro server rooms will exist at all: accommodation of vertical airflow, space inefficiency of case, apparent permanently installed expensive graphics cards.

post #205 of 1290

Cables cables everywhere!!! My goodness, look at this workstation. One thunderbolt cable from the Mac Pro behind the monitors to one monitor then daisy chained to the other monitors. Also behind the monitors is a pegasus raid array, a PCIe chassis for audio cards and a DVD burner. Plus we have the wireless keyboard and mouse in front. How messy!!

 

 

Who would want the above when you can have the below with everything inside the case!! I hear you can even climb inside the case and work from there since they have a display monitor INSIDE the case!!! C'mon Apple! Try to innovate!!!

 

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

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“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

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post #206 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I wondering how many dual XEON processors are actually being utilized rather than GPUs in the majority of workstation class apps.  I'm sure Apple has done some research in that area which is why they opted for 2 GPUs rather than 2 CPUs.

 

For any SGI fans out there.  do you remember the O2 workstation?  They had two different flavors, one blue/black and the other purple and black.  At least this MacPro isn't as fugly as the SGI OS workstation.  For those that don't know what I'm talking about....   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_O2

 

It looked more like a stump from some theme park.

 

Yes absolutely, MIPs R12000 400 MHz, 1 GB Ram, upgraded 6GB HD. Loved the video capture, I converted all of my old VHS movies to DIVX using one. I also had an Indy, Octane and a Fuel, still have the Fuel actually. Big, big fan of SGI workstations, Apple makes good computers but SGI made f*cking epic machines. My husband was installing hardwood floors in our study where I kept my Octane, we temporarily moved everything in there including the computers to the balcony on the second floor. My husband stacked the SGI to high and it tipped over the balcony. There was a small crack and few scratches on the base, nothing else was wrong with it, bullet proof.

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post #207 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

 

Exactly. Which is why the hackintosh community flourishes. I love OSX but hate the over priced HW apple tries to drive down our throats.

Flourishes???.......................really?

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

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“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

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post #208 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Flourishes???.......................really?

 

Yes, really do some research. But I guess if you don't like the word flourish, you could look it up as it is quite appropriate for the state of the hackintosh community.

post #209 of 1290
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post
Yes, really do some research.

 

One one thousandth of one percent of the entire computer industry is not "flourishing".


But I guess if you don't like the word flourish, you could look it up as it is quite appropriate for the state of the hackintosh community.

 

Not in the freaking slightest.

post #210 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

 

Exactly. Which is why the hackintosh community flourishes. I love OSX but hate the over priced HW apple tries to drive down our throats.

Well, Apple would have to charge lots of money for the OS if they were to sell it the same way Microsoft sells it. Do you want that?  Plus no support?  A very small number of geeks would, but the majority doesn't.

 

Apple makes their product the way they do and they charge what they charge so they can stay in business.    In case you haven't noticed, IBM, Compaq sold off their PC businesses because they couldn't make any profit.  HP is looking to dump their PC business and Dell has probably considered doing the same thing.   The PC clone business has little to no profits and a company cannot survive with a decent return on investment.   Lenovo is barely making a profit as well.


These guys are working on only a couple of percent net profits when their shareholders wants considerably more.

 

You can't have high quality at a low cost.  Those two paradigms can't exist together.  You want quality?  It costs money.  You want a company that will stick around?  They have to make a decent profit to reinvest in hiring people and spending more money in R&D.

 

The Hackintosh community isn't really flourishing from a standpoint that anyone is really making any decent money.  It's categorized as illegal clone DIY consumers that act like they know what they are doing.

 

I think what Apple should have done is taken at least one or two well known, well connected people from the Audio Recording industry, Video Production Industry, Animation Studios, Architects, Professional Photographers, etc for each of the various markets they are going after to help them with figuring out what configurations, etc. and to help with the R&D of the product design.  If you can please these people, then you'll have a winner on your hands.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of valid reasons why they didn't have PCI slots (because there are less requirements for them), only one CPU vs two, no hard drives cages, no optical and a form factor that looks like some strange time capsule.    I'm sure some people won't mind the things it doesn't have, some can get what they need with third party and some will just limp along with what they have writing hate mail to Apple.  I hope Apple has a backup design.

 

This kind of reminds me of the cylinder version of the Cube they came out with.

post #211 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

In reality, Mac Pro server rooms will be interesting to watch.

The shelving will be 7" wide, and the machines placed with the back panel facing outward. I imagine the shelves will have to slide out to swap components.

On the other hand, the power supply is internal, which is a significant problem for server farms.

I really did think that the new Pro would have been more rack-friendly, given that the Xserve was discontinued.

Not being easily rack mounted or even put on a serve cabinet shelf is a big shortcoming. As for the power supply these could simply be seen as compute modules that get swapped out whole. In some cases it actually makes more sense to be able to quickly swap the whole machine.
post #212 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs View Post


Of course I remember the O2. Together with my MacBook Air, they're the best computers I owned (for different reasons, though: the O2 because of having IRIX on a small form factor, while being able to use up to 1GB of textures in hardware accelerated OpenGL (because of UMA), and I also loved its blue box. I did a lot of very useful stuff with that machine. And the MacBook Air allows me to have almost desktop features with the weight close to an iPad. I also owned more computers, of course, but these two are the best I ever used.

But the new Mac Pro looks promising... It has the potential of becoming my #1 favorite :-)

When i first saw the O2, I thought it came right out of a Smurf Theme park.  I thought the GUI was kind of cool in some respects.  SGi did have a few strange designs back then.

post #213 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Well, Apple would have to charge lots of money for the OS if they were to sell it the same way Microsoft sells it. Do you want that?  Plus no support?  A very small number of geeks would, but the majority doesn't.

 

Apple makes their product the way they do and they charge what they charge so they can stay in business.    In case you haven't noticed, IBM, Compaq sold off their PC businesses because they couldn't make any profit.  HP is looking to dump their PC business and Dell has probably considered doing the same thing.   The PC clone business has little to no profits and a company cannot survive with a decent return on investment.   Lenovo is barely making a profit as well.


These guys are working on only a couple of percent net profits when their shareholders wants considerably more.

 

You can't have high quality at a low cost.  Those two paradigms can't exist together.  You want quality?  It costs money.  You want a company that will stick around?  They have to make a decent profit to reinvest in hiring people and spending more money in R&D.

 

The Hackintosh community isn't really flourishing from a standpoint that anyone is really making any decent money.  It's categorized as illegal clone DIY consumers that act like they know what they are doing.

 

I think what Apple should have done is taken at least one or two well known, well connected people from the Audio Recording industry, Video Production Industry, Animation Studios, Architects, Professional Photographers, etc for each of the various markets they are going after to help them with figuring out what configurations, etc. and to help with the R&D of the product design.  If you can please these people, then you'll have a winner on your hands.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of valid reasons why they didn't have PCI slots (because there are less requirements for them), only one CPU vs two, no hard drives cages, no optical and a form factor that looks like some strange time capsule.    I'm sure some people won't mind the things it doesn't have, some can get what they need with third party and some will just limp along with what they have writing hate mail to Apple.  I hope Apple has a backup design.

 

This kind of reminds me of the cylinder version of the Cube they came out with.

 

As far as hackintosh community, I'm not talking about anyone making any money, just being able to run OSX on much cheaper self built systems. And yes, even if Apple charged what MS does for Windows I would pay it as it is just that much better, their hardware, not so much.

post #214 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

Yes, really do some research. But I guess if you don't like the word flourish, you could look it up as it is quite appropriate for the state of the hackintosh community.

I've never really understood the Hackintosh community. Frankly I see it as a waste of talent that could be better applied to BSD or Linux. Mind you I'm a big fan of the current Mac OS but if you want an OS to get creative on (programming wise) it is the wrong platform.
post #215 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

 

Yes, really do some research. But I guess if you don't like the word flourish, you could look it up as it is quite appropriate for the state of the hackintosh community.

Is there a way to calculate the number of Hackintoshed computers out there? They do the job though, I recently helped a friend with one, she bought an Asus barebone system, we added an i7-3770S, 16GB Crucial 1600Ghz Ram, OCZ 128GB SSD and a Nvidia Quadro K600, cost a little over 700 bucks. She had a Mac Pro G5 with a 30" Apple Display and the monitor worked perfectly with the Quadro. The computer is hidden in a cabinet under the desk so when someone is in her office all you see is a Mac monitor, keyboard and mouse, if you didn't know there is no way anyone could tell it wasn't a real Mac. I defiantly see the appeal.


Edited by Relic - 6/11/13 at 3:58pm
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post #216 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Who would want the above when you can have the below with everything inside the case!! I hear you can even climb inside the case and work from there since they have a display monitor INSIDE the case!!! C'mon Apple! Try to innovate!!!


I can actually think of a few applications where the new Pro would work really well in a Pelican 1520 case with any accessories fixed in place and wired up, and still (almost) take up less space than the existing MacPro. It will be interesting to see if people end up making brackets to mount them in racks and other cases. You could get 6 of them in a 5U rack enclosure if you really wanted to, or mix and match with storage or whatever other accessories you might need.
post #217 of 1290
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post
That said I WILL always be able to build a faster PC to run OSX for less $$ than you…

 

Enjoy your infraction.

 

Are you the one I bet earlier? No, you will not be able to build a faster PC than this Mac Pro for less money. That's just common sense.

post #218 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Enjoy your infraction.

 

Are you the one I bet earlier? No, you will not be able to build a faster PC than this Mac Pro for less money. That's just common sense.

The price isn't out yet so we will have to wait and see.

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post #219 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

 

Fucking retard, stick your head in the sand, I don't care. That said I WILL allways be able to build a faster PC to run OSX for less $$ than you if you so choose to pay for the pretty shiny designs they produce....

Well, you can't call Apple for any help, what you are doing is actually illegal since OS X licenses are only meant to run on the original computer that it came with and upgrade licenses are meant to upgrade an existing Apple computer.  They aren't meant to install on whatever YOU want, because you are too cheap to buy an authentic Apple product.

 

Hackintosh users are the little parasites that mill around the industry that don't want to pay for anything, but always want it their way, like their entitled.

 

So you want to use something but no be supportive of the company and all of the people that spend their time doing everything to make it possible.

 

Sorry, but I would NEVER hire someone that put together their own Hackintosh systems and had your attitude.

 

Can't Hackintosh a laptop can you?  You can only Hackintosh a PC tower, but it's still illegal.

post #220 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


I can actually think of a few applications where the new Pro would work really well in a Pelican 1520 case with any accessories fixed in place and wired up, and still (almost) take up less space than the existing MacPro. It will be interesting to see if people end up making brackets to mount them in racks and other cases. You could get 6 of them in a 5U rack enclosure if you really wanted to, or mix and match with storage or whatever other accessories you might need.

Yeah, that thing is far too much for the average high end user.  Those big boxes don't sell well as compared to the kind of sales Apple needs to get.  Not every Mac Pro user installs 4 internal drives, not every Mac Pro user installs additional PCI cards, not every MacPro user installs a second Optical drive, etc.  The beast you are showing is kind of overkill for the markets Apple generally goes after.

post #221 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Is there a way to calculate the number of Hackintoshed computers out there? They do the job though, I recently helped a friend with one, she bought an Asus barebone system, we added an i7-3770S, 16GB Crucial 1600Ghz Ram, OCZ 128GB SSD and a Nvidia Quadro K600, cost a little over 700 bucks. She had a Mac Pro G5 with a 30" Apple Display and the monitor worked perfectly with the Quadro. The computer is hidden in a cabinet under the desk so when someone is in her office all you see is a Mac monitor, keyboard and mouse, if you didn't know there is no way anyone could tell it wasn't a real Mac. I defiantly see the appeal.

And how much time did it take for you to figure out what products you needed to buy, buy them, unpack them and install them, including the OS?  How many hours?   Don't tell me 1/2 an hour, I know better.  From start to finish, how many actual hours were spent until the system was fully installed up and running?

post #222 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Well, you can't call Apple for any help, what you are doing is actually illegal since OS X licenses are only meant to run on the original computer that it came with and upgrade licenses are meant to upgrade an existing Apple computer.  They aren't meant to install on whatever YOU want, because you are too cheap to buy an authentic Apple product.
"Too cheap" sums it up. It is rather sad that talent that allows for hackintoshes isn't used on open operating systems instead of being used to steal the Mac operating system. As some that also uses Linux and a few other OS's it isn't like there is a lack of projects out there.

One thing that I've learned, probably too late in life, is that a thief will use any sort of contorted logic they can come up with to justify their behavior.
Quote:
Hackintosh users are the little parasites that mill around the industry that don't want to pay for anything, but always want it their way, like their entitled.
Rather pathetic too when there are so many open systems they could contribute to.
Quote:
So you want to use something but no be supportive of the company and all of the people that spend their time doing everything to make it possible.

Sorry, but I would NEVER hire someone that put together their own Hackintosh systems and had your attitude.
Nor should you do business with them.
Quote:
Can't Hackintosh a laptop can you?  You can only Hackintosh a PC tower, but it's still illegal.

Actually I think you can do laptops too. Again though why bother? Mac Book Airs aren't that much more expensive than competing systems and are often better values when looked at closely.
post #223 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

The price isn't out yet so we will have to wait and see.

 

While technically true that the price isn't out yet, it's been pointed out (by a few poeple, at another site) that there is simply no way that an individual will be able to get those GPUs at anything resembling a reasonable price -- I mean reasonable when compared to the entire price of the Pro, not otherwise reasonable; AMD can mark-up as much as they want.

 

So, as I understand it (and these people at least seemed to know what they were talking about and make good arguments) the likelihood that you'll be able to build you own a cheaper machine is extremely unlikely.

 

But you're right: we don't know the price yet.

post #224 of 1290
I think for gamers, this would probably be fine, but the pros kind of need storage, optical drives (even though content is moving towards digital downloads) having built in optical BluRay is kind of needed here, PCI slots (not for additional graphics cards, but for maybe ProTools, unless this thing will outperform Pro Tools cards using Pro Tools native).

I think the shape seems more like the gamer and home computing crowd would be drawn to this, but the pros are more rack mount/tower centric.

Otherwise, it's a cool looking product. I wouldn't mind having one, but more for a home computer than a Pro workstation.
post #225 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think for gamers, this would probably be fine, but the pros kind of need storage, optical drives (even though content is moving towards digital downloads) having built in optical BluRay is kind of needed here, PCI slots (not for additional graphics cards, but for maybe ProTools, unless this thing will outperform Pro Tools cards using Pro Tools native).

I think the shape seems more like the gamer and home computing crowd would be drawn to this, but the pros are more rack mount/tower centric.

Otherwise, it's a cool looking product. I wouldn't mind having one, but more for a home computer than a Pro workstation.

 

This is the problem with how people are viewing this: They are viewing this as a replacement for the old Mac Pro.  It is NOT.  It is a new order, a totally new approach.  Expandability is now external.  The machine itself is built around extremely high performance and an advanced, rethought thermal core.

 

Apple faces this sort of reaction seemingly every few years.  Get rid of floppy drives?!  Are you kidding?!  What do mean you can't open the iMac?!  Who the heck is going to buy that!?  OMG, why would any serious person buy a cell phone without an actual keyboard!?  WTF is the iPad, and why the hell does it cost so much?!  Wait second -- you are taking away my optical drive?!  EFF YOU!

 

Once people stop thinking about this as a replacement for the old Mac Pro, but as a new sort of platform with a new approach, it will make a lot more sense.

post #226 of 1290

FWIW:

 

Quote:
Exactly. Which is why the hackintosh community flourishes. I love OSX but hate the over priced HW apple tries to drive down our throats.

 

There is not a shot in hell the Hackintosh community is flourishing. If you mean flourishing like Haiku OS or ReactOS, to development projects like GNUStep as flourishing then chalk that up as flourishing.

post #227 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

 

This is the problem with how people are viewing this: They are viewing this as a replacement for the old Mac Pro.  It is NOT.  It is a new order, a totally new approach.  Expandability is now external.  The machine itself is built around extremely high performance and an advanced, rethought thermal core.

 

Apple faces this sort of reaction seemingly every few years.  Get rid of floppy drives?!  Are you kidding?!  What do mean you can't open the iMac?!  Who the heck is going to buy that!?  OMG, why would any serious person buy a cell phone without an actual keyboard!?  WTF is the iPad, and why the hell does it cost so much?!  Wait second -- you are taking away my optical drive?!  EFF YOU!

 

Once people stop thinking about this as a replacement for the old Mac Pro, but as a new sort of platform with a new approach, it will make a lot more sense.


I'm not sure you get the difference between the stated parallels. Storage is not a legacy item. With the iphone you don't plug in an external keyboard. It's really the opposite of a phone. A modern phone is the current epitome of integration. This is more unifying the older format to a newer solution that was only warranted due to the popularity of mobile formats which lack the internal room. Forward thinking would have been more like Wizard's concept of arrays of PCI storage, not a move from external (G5 2 bays) to 10TB + possible internally back to external. That is just backwards. If you really had a point, you wouldn't need the hyperbolic references. That doesn't mean this doesn't represent a solution. It's just not the ideal solution in terms of storage. Ideally 90% of the market for that specific machine (not 90% of consumers) would have their primary storage needs solved internally with only backups pushed out of the box.

post #228 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyZ View Post

 

Exactly. Which is why the hackintosh community flourishes. I love OSX but hate the over priced HW apple tries to drive down our throats.


I think you over-estimate its size. Most of the hackintosh community is made up of hobbyists. Go read hackintosh forums. Many of them own genuine Macs in addition to their creations. Your views on that community are simply misguided, and that has nothing to do with Apple's pricing models.

post #229 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


I'm not sure you get the difference between the stated parallels. Storage is not a legacy item. With the iphone you don't plug in an external keyboard. It's really the opposite of a phone. A modern phone is the current epitome of integration. This is more unifying the older format to a newer solution that was only warranted due to the popularity of mobile formats which lack the internal room. Forward thinking would have been more like Wizard's concept of arrays of PCI storage, not a move from external (G5 2 bays) to 10TB + possible internally back to external. That is just backwards. If you really had a point, you wouldn't need the hyperbolic references. That doesn't mean this doesn't represent a solution. It's just not the ideal solution in terms of storage. Ideally 90% of the market for that specific machine (not 90% of consumers) would have their primary storage needs solved internally with only backups pushed out of the box.

 

Well, that goes against most everything I've heard from both supporters and detractors over the last couple of days.  The supporters are saying that storage isn't a big deal because they already have a RAID array (or whatever), and the detractors are saying it IS a big deal, because they already spent all this money on external storage -- and they don't want to spend more on TB enclosures or have to deal with (perceived -- since I'm not clear on the actual truth on this matter) the difference in speed between TB and PCIe, etc.

 

If we forget, for the moment, the question of upgradability within the machine itself -- since there seems to be a good amount of debate, based only on a few pics, as to what is and what isn't upgradable -- and only focus on expandability, it seems from everything I've read (1000s of messages), that adjusting to a completely new expandability paradigm may be painful at first, but will eventually make a whole lot sense.

 

Or, for some, it won't eventually make sense, and for them the Mac Pro is not the machine.

post #230 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post


If we forget, for the moment, the question of upgradability within the machine itself -- since there seems to be a good amount of debate, based only on a few pics, as to what is and what isn't upgradable -- and only focus on expandability, it seems from everything I've read (1000s of messages), that adjusting to a completely new expandability paradigm may be painful at first, but will eventually make a whole lot sense.

That depend on how fast storage needs, often specifically online storage needs as opposed to data that is taken offline grow. In terms of RAID arrays, cheap RAIDs are often crap. Cheap port multiplier boxes patched in through host cards can be really buggy solutions at times, but they're usually better if you match brands between JBOD box and host card, ideally same chipset vendor. In a lot of ways we have a decreasing amount of vendor support for Mac PCI cards outside of specialty hardware at the higher pricing tiers. It makes sense to go with something based off usb3 or thunderbolt there unless you require a more extreme solution like SAS for performance reasons. eSATA is the thing I wouldn't add to a machine today. The Xeon EP chipset actually has 6 available SATA connections. Without the optical drives, you could get 12-18 TB internally with backup being the only external. Centralized storage is a different thing, but I'm not aware of any thunderbolt SANs. Even if they exist, they would cost a fortune. For single user environments, internal storage can be very cost effective and stable. It eliminates one piece of hardware from the mess, even though as I mentioned, you still need backups.

 

Apple's solutions aren't all good ideas. Look at the Pegasus raid box. They sell it in the Apple Store with whatever brand of drives. They are using standard drives, which have longer error recovery timings, yet they list Raid 5 as supported. Raid 5 for some reason makes for good marketing, yet it's not something you should do on the cheap like that. I mentioned error recovery timings because standard ones can end up with timed out disks forcing a rebuild or crash. Even a rebuild requires it to read every bit on each drive, which is typically why you would want a raid controller with ecc ram cache for such a thing. I'm not sure they could really budget for it at the starting price listed with Apple's typical markup. The current mac pro used to have an internal raid card. It had horrible reviews and basically no support. Storage is one of those areas where I frequently disagree with Apple's solutions. Hopefully that lends some detail to my reasoning. That said, it's not a determination whether or not I will own one of these.

 

Regarding the ability to make upgrades, part of that is hand wringing. It's being introduced with Ivy. Your only cpu options would be based on Ivy. You could hold onto it for years and grab retired server parts from ebay on the cheap, but it wouldn't be like the popular 2.66 quad ---> Westmere 6 core post price drop. In terms of gpus, workstation variants don't change that much. Much of the difference is in the drivers, but it can make a significant difference in some use cases. You just have to understand your needs. Sometimes gaming gpus are ironically faster for calculations. Workstation gpu drivers are often highly tuned for specific OpenGL applications where much of the time even the slower workstation gpus do better than gaming cards. It varies though, so you have to look for tests.

post #231 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

And how much time did it take for you to figure out what products you needed to buy, buy them, unpack them and install them, including the OS?  How many hours?   Don't tell me 1/2 an hour, I know better.  From start to finish, how many actual hours were spent until the system was fully installed up and running?

 

Oh gosh, I don't know, lets see about an hour or so to choose the components and then order them threw an online shop called http://stegpc.ch. I got the CPU from an overstock sell and paid only 120.00, normal price was 320.00. Build time was quick as I started out with a Barebone system already, motherboard and power-supply come pre-installed, so only 30 minutes for that, I actually think it took longer to unbox everything. The OSX install and software updates took additional 2 hours. Not to bad, but if your applying that it wasn't time worth spending, well first I love this stuff and second it was a delightful afternoon spent with my girlfriend while my husband and kids were at the movies and lunch, I don't get much time to myself as you can imagine. I've been building PC's since my first 386 DX40, I don't get to do it as often as I would like anymore because I'm a little older, wiser and prefer owning built Apple machines with a warranty. There are a lot of very friendly forums if one decides to build a Hackintosh, I frequent http://www.hackint0sh.org , they were very helpful with this build.

 

I was actually going to install Windows 7 on it but my friend really wanted a Mac, unfortunately her budget of 500 CHF was pretty low to buy a decent Mac and she really needed a dedicated GPU to run that huge 30" (2560 x 1600 ) Apple display decently. She's a kindergarten teacher with limited funds, so I bought her the Nvidia Quadro K600 and just told her it came from work, she's a proud women and would have never excepted it otherwise. The PowerMac G5 and monitor were donated to her by one of her students parents last year but the G5 stop functioning, I think it's the motherboard.


Edited by Relic - 6/12/13 at 12:12am
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #232 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

 

This is the problem with how people are viewing this: They are viewing this as a replacement for the old Mac Pro.  It is NOT.  It is a new order, a totally new approach.

I think this is a crucial point in the whole approach. Apple already touts the new machine as the most expandable ever. So better be it, by offering lower cost configurations. Remember the old Power Macintosh G3/G4? The base configurations were available at $1600. Given the storage trade-offs in the new machine, and possibly others also depending on the degree of integration of the parts (yet to be revealed), Apple needs absolutely to offer at least one configuration below the $2000 mark. Otherwise the risk of this to become the Cylindrical Cube is visible.

post #233 of 1290
Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

Ha Ha! There are many things that belong to past eras that are never appreciated by the new generation.

 

Pros ask for a one ton 4x4 diesel truck and Apple delivers a solar powered hovercraft.  This Mac Pro was designed for modern hipsters, wanna be "Pros".

 

Yes, "pros" want a 4x4 diesel truck to haul tons of product.

 

Apple delivers a solar powered hovercraft that can haul tons of product. Twice as fast. In 1/8th the space.

 

What's the problem?

post #234 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

I was talking about that? Huh?

 

And I thought I was referring to your erroneous comment about no such thing as a 12-core processor. But I understand the human nature to refuse to admit being wrong. Won't belabor the point. ;-)

 

 

Stop being such a loser. The discussion is about Xeons, and everyone in this thread knows it, you as well.

post #235 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Is there a way to calculate the number of Hackintoshed computers out there? They do the job though, I recently helped a friend with one, she bought an Asus barebone system, we added an i7-3770S, 16GB Crucial 1600Ghz Ram, OCZ 128GB SSD and a Nvidia Quadro K600, cost a little over 700 bucks. She had a Mac Pro G5 with a 30" Apple Display and the monitor worked perfectly with the Quadro. The computer is hidden in a cabinet under the desk so when someone is in her office all you see is a Mac monitor, keyboard and mouse, if you didn't know there is no way anyone could tell it wasn't a real Mac. I defiantly see the appeal.

Except when there are issues with updates and GPU drivers, then you can tell whether it's a hackintosh or an actual Mac.

post #236 of 1290

Can't wait to buy one of these solar-powered hovercrafts.

 

Only questions I have are:  (1)  can i get 2 matching retina screens (with built in camera, usb hub, speakers etc), keyboard and mouse?;  (2)  who can offer a bomb-proof external thunderbolt 2 raid box (15-20tb) that looks half decent?   On question 2, am kind of hoping synology step up to the plate

MacPro 2 x 3GHz, 8GB RAM, 4x1000 HD, 2x23" ACD
15" rMBP; 17" MBP

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MacPro 2 x 3GHz, 8GB RAM, 4x1000 HD, 2x23" ACD
15" rMBP; 17" MBP

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post #237 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

That depend on how fast storage needs, often specifically online storage needs as opposed to data that is taken offline grow. In terms of RAID arrays, cheap RAIDs are often crap. 

 

[snip a bunch of stuff I mostly don't understand :) ]

 

I think a lot of that is the point -- and other stuff -- is the point for Apple though, don't you?  They want to make how people think about solutions change, while at the same time drag the industry into the New World by pushing them to come up with reasonably priced, reliable Thunderbolt solutions.  IOW, making Thunderbolt the new USB.  There will be gnashing of teeth and pain, but eventually it will become the standard way you do things.

 

At least, that's how I see it.  Now, whether it will be successful, that's a different question.  But that does seem to me -- with my limited understanding of these things -- to be the gambit Apple is playing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

I think this is a crucial point in the whole approach. Apple already touts the new machine as the most expandable ever. So better be it, by offering lower cost configurations. Remember the old Power Macintosh G3/G4? The base configurations were available at $1600. Given the storage trade-offs in the new machine, and possibly others also depending on the degree of integration of the parts (yet to be revealed), Apple needs absolutely to offer at least one configuration below the $2000 mark. Otherwise the risk of this to become the Cylindrical Cube is visible.

 

I wish people would stop comparing this to the Cube.  I see why they do it, but they aren't really comparable.  The problem with the Cube was that there were better Macs available for less money at the same time.  So, the Cube was a really cool, but highly underperforming (with some problems, to boot) machine that someone would buy only for its coolness.  I think if anything, it would be compared to a hypothetical unsuccessful iMac -- a machine with a different approach (completely enclosed) pushing a new technology (USB).

 

This isn't the Cube, from what I can see.  There's nothing in the 7 TFlop range that is a Mac, with this sort of GPU power, etc.  The only similarity to the Cube is that it's a radical new design.  But it's not like you can build an iMac that would be just as good.

 

As to pricing, let's face it: None of us really knows.  But I STRONGLY suspect that people looking for something under $2k are dreaming.  Heck, my iMac was $2700 (27", 3.2GHz i5, GTX 675MX 1GB, 3TB Fusion).  And that's a consumer machine.

 

Anyone who is going to need the Pro is going to be able to spend (or should be) a lot more than $2k.  

post #238 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrab View Post

Can't wait to buy one of these solar-powered hovercrafts.

 

Only questions I have are:  (1)  can i get 2 matching retina screens (with built in camera, usb hub, speakers etc), keyboard and mouse?;  (2)  who can offer a bomb-proof external thunderbolt 2 raid box (15-20tb) that looks half decent?   On question 2, am kind of hoping synology step up to the plate


I wouldn't expect full transfer speeds if you're running raid boxes and 3 4K displays. That said the issue comes up if you're maxing everything, and that would be very expensive. I wouldn't personally run into it.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbolt-2-everything-you-need-to-know

post #239 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdesign View Post

How I picture mstone:



Brilliant. 1biggrin.gif
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
post #240 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

As to pricing, let's face it: None of us really knows.  But I STRONGLY suspect that people looking for something under $2k are dreaming.  Heck, my iMac was $2700 (27", 3.2GHz i5, GTX 675MX 1GB, 3TB Fusion).  And that's a consumer machine.

Exactly. This is what the low end Mac Pro should cost with a display. It is a while now that the high end iMac is more or less in the same league as the low end Mac Pro in terms of raw CPU/GPU power. For example, the late 2012 high end iMac can beat even the 6-core 3.33 GHz MP, which is not a low end model but it sits in the middle of the range. The added value of the Mac Pro was the internal expandability, and the much more material needed to build it. Both are gone now.

 

The new machine has fully the potential to start in the traditional Power Mac configurations of around $1500 by just using slower components. It remains to be seen seen if Apple wants to do so or not.

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