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Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro - Page 24

post #921 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


You should really take your own advice and stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about. Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.


I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?

post #922 of 1290

Mac Pro bound Xeon now available on New Egg...for only $2,749!

 

I guess we know this new machine is going to cost about $6k.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925&Tpk=E5-2697+v2

post #923 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post
 

Mac Pro bound Xeon now available on New Egg...for only $2,749!

 

I guess we know the high-end model of this new machine is going to cost about $6k.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925&Tpk=E5-2697+v2

Fixed that for you… ;^p

 

I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k

 

12-core Xeon E5 CPU

128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)

756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM

 

And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k

 

6-core Xeon E5 CPU

16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)

128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM


Edited by MacRonin - 9/10/13 at 9:34pm
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Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
Reply
post #924 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 


I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?

 

I use a Wacom  for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago).  However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse.  Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.

 

I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork.  Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #925 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

Mac Pro bound Xeon now available on New Egg...for only $2,749!

Like its specs, that is one hell of a number. Never thought I'd see the day for a CPU to be this expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k

12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM

And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k

6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM

I think 2k will be too low for differentiating it from the iMac. I don't think Apple prices are reflecting the costs and margins involved; they look to be more artificially dreamed up so 'it'll flow better'. Just look at iOS storage; it's $100 but the first upgrade gets you 16GB, the next 32, next 64 (iPad4). I presume (and see all around me) people either get the 16 or 32GB versions, meaning the demand for highest capacity is lowest, making that more expensive for Apple because of limited quantities. But I digress to iOS.

MP: the 128GB RAM will need a bit of tuning in OSX as that currently only sees 96GB, don't know if the 10.9 betas already have been updated. I think you're right on the money with the lower-end having 4x4.

I'd say the maxed out one will have 1TB SSD, and, yes, entry level 128GB.

/rant
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
Reply
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
Reply
post #926 of 1290

How long till October?

 

8-)

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #927 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
 

 

I use a Wacom  for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago).  However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse.  Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.

 

I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork.  Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.

 

I too have found that the pen/tablet is much easier on the body than a mouse.  I have used one form of pen/tablet for more than 25 years (including one that had a wire coming out of the pen!).  Only a mouse causes me any pain.  I briefly worked as an At Home Advisor for Apple and their ergo department gave me the stink-eye when I brought up my theory about tablets vs. mice.  But I quit that job after 6 weeks so the mouse they made me use didn't have much time to mess me up.

post #928 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
 

How long till October?

 

8-)

 

Too long.  Might not even be october if you're waiting on a mini like I am.

post #929 of 1290

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
 

 

I use a Wacom  for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago).  However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse.  Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.

 

I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork.  Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.

Typically mice aren't suitable for any work that requires large amounts of articulation. They also lack some of the driver features in terms of mapping and any kind of pressure sensitivity. I'm well aware of the differences, as the first wacom I used had a serial connection. Mice were just never designed for that kind of thing, and the pen and tablet format is the best thing we have there. I suspect part of the reason you run into software trouble is due to using smaller (possibly non commercial?) software packages. Any of the major paint and 3d app packages have intuos driver support.

post #930 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post
 

Fixed that for you… ;^p

 

I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k

 

12-core Xeon E5 CPU

128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)

756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM

 

And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k

 

6-core Xeon E5 CPU

16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)

128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM

 

Good call, Mac Ronin.

 

Think we need an entry model for the mortals.  Think you've got he specs about right.  256 gig SSD would be better though.  They're not expensive now...

 

It's not like they'd be including the 27 inch monitor in the iMac.  So the cost of not including that would off set the extra gpu...and the Xeon cpu.  They'll save in materials and shipping.  That should help offset the cost of the entry Xeon/Cpu.

 

Can't wait for the Pro.  And I say that as the owner of a flag ship iMac.  Cost me £2200+, I think.  

 

The entry Pro should be way below that to drive some unit sales again.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #931 of 1290

They can also leave off the mouse and keyboard.  Some people will be buying several of these babies to use as farms; I would if I could and it would be wireless especially with the speedy new WiFi.

 

Saw a rumor somewhere about October 15 for another event...  Isn't that next Friday?  8-)

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #932 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Good call, Mac Ronin.

Think we need an entry model for the mortals.  Think you've got he specs about right.  256 gig SSD would be better though.  They're not expensive now...
Actually I'm thinking 512 GB ought to be the minimal. As you note prices are dropping and more so another round of chips is about to come on the market.
Quote:

It's not like they'd be including the 27 inch monitor in the iMac.  So the cost of not including that would off set the extra gpu...and the Xeon cpu.  They'll save in materials and shipping.  That should help offset the cost of the entry Xeon/Cpu.
Depending upon the CPU the cost might not be that exceptional. They would need a combination of hardware that adds up to around $1500 to hit the $2000 retail price range. Honestly I'd rather see a model with that 6 core Xeon and a single higher performance GPU. Sometimes though four cores and two GPU's seem to be more satisfying, I guess people can never be happy with configurations. This highlights though that people will not be Happy with Apple lineup no matter what Apple does.
Quote:
Can't wait for the Pro.  And I say that as the owner of a flag ship iMac.  Cost me £2200+, I think.  

The entry Pro should be way below that to drive some unit sales again.
If they don't come up with a way to drive sales I don't think the platform will be around long in either an entry level or power users configuration.
Quote:

Lemon Bon Bon.

I'm still thinking that this Mac Pro introduction is the perfect time to refactor the Mini into a machine with a wider performance profile. We still need the entry level machine but we also need a less that $1000 Mini that is actually worth the money paid for it. In this regard the Haswell offer the opportunity to move to desktop chips and thus offer a truly big differential in performance vs the entry level Mini. I'm really hoping that the rule book for the Mini got trashed too as that platform is stale to the same degree the Mac Pro is.
post #933 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post
 

Fixed that for you… ;^p

 

I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k

 

12-core Xeon E5 CPU

128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)

756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM

 

And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k

 

6-core Xeon E5 CPU

16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)

128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM

 

$2k would be nice but the way Apple does pricing $2.5k is probably more realistic. Also the present MacPro comes with 6GB RAM so I'm expecting 8GB in the new machine, probably (shudder) 4x2GB. And if the storage is only 128GB, then the MacPro is liable to be laughed out the door. It should come with 512GB as a bare minimum, but again given the Apple way it'll probably be 256GB, forcing you to upgrade the storage. I'm still hoping pricing and availability will be announce with the release of Maverick next month(?).

post #934 of 1290

Any rumours on the Pro's OS capabilities?

 

On the one hand, Apple would likely prefer to only support the new OS.

But a lot of Pro software (ProTools? Adobe? CAD?) likely isn't Mavericks-ready yet.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #935 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

Any rumours on the Pro's OS capabilities?

 

On the one hand, Apple would likely prefer to only support the new OS.

But a lot of Pro software (ProTools? Adobe? CAD?) likely isn't Mavericks-ready yet.

 

Huh?   All applications are being updated right now.  They don't release their new versions until Apple releases 10.9 and then the s/w update their apps which is usually a minor update? 

 
This is how it's been done since the beginning of the s/w industry.  That's why Apple releases the Beta versions of the OS, it gives the developers to do modifications of their apps, test it and they aren't at Golden Master yet.  I'm sure Apple will be at Golden Master within a month and then they release 10.9 and then the flood gates of updated apps come out, but they will just be minor updates unless they are planning on their own major release.
post #936 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post
 

Fixed that for you… ;^p

 

I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k

 

12-core Xeon E5 CPU

128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)

756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM

 

And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k

 

6-core Xeon E5 CPU

16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)

128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD

Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM

 

Why are you putting this information up?  Do you have Apple's specs and pricing from Apple?  If not, I wouldn't get people's hopes up or down.
post #937 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

Huh?   All applications are being updated right now.  They don't release their new versions until Apple releases 10.9 and then the s/w update their apps which is usually a minor update? 

 
How old are you?  If you just turned 13, I can understand you not knowing this, but this is how it's been done since the beginning of the s/w industry.  That's why Apple releases the Beta versions of the OS, it gives the developers to do modifications of their apps, test it and they aren't at Golden Master yet.  I'm sure Apple will be at Golden Master within a month and then they release 10.9 and then the flood gates of updated apps come out, but they will just be minor updates unless they are planning on their own major release.

 

Don't be silly and condescending. Pros don't typically jump on a new OS version right out of the gate.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #938 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

 

Don't be silly and condescending. Pros don't typically jump on a new OS version right out of the gate.

 

The Pro USERS may wait a little bit, but the s/w developers don't usually wait that long, typically within a couple of months, depending on if they are going to add a lot of features in their updates.

 

 

What are you talking about?  The new version of OS X isn't a switch from 32 to 64 bit, it's just a routine OS update just like 10.8, and previous versions.  Why do you think Apple has WWDC?  To release and discuss the next release of OS X and gives them about 4 months (give or take) to get their code up to date in the mean time.

 
It's ALWAYS been when Apple releases a major release of OS X, within a couple of months all of the major s/w products, Pro Tools, Adobe, CAD, etc. are updated.  This has been this way for a LONG time.   Mention an existing s/w that wasn't updated to run on the latest version of OS X in previous generations?  

Adobe is usually on it like a fly on $hit, ProTools usually within 2 or 3 months, but they are always slow, but I can't think of any app that doesn't issue a update to their apps to run on the latest version of OS X. 
 
I've worked for Apple corporate resellers between the mid 80's and 2000 and it's ALWAYS been that way.  It hasn't deviated from that.  But the s/w apps usually update their apps whether it's a $10 app or a $5000 app within a couple of months after the release. 

 

 

Maybe you're new to OS X and are used to WIndows.  Windows makes drastic GUI changes in their interface which is why Windows apps aren't as fast to market, especially Windows 8.


Edited by drblank - 9/17/13 at 8:03am
post #939 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

 

Don't be silly and condescending. Pros don't typically jump on a new OS version right out of the gate.

I felt due to history, it's always been that way and it's not the brightest question in the first place.  Seriously, that was a silly question.

 

Name one major application that wasn't updated within a couple of months from a major update and I'll tell you WHY it wasn't.

post #940 of 1290

Regardless of whether updates are available right away, a lot of Pro shops can take months to update their systems.

 

So the question is relevant if there are shops that are sticking with Mountain Lion (which seems to be as bulletproof a release as I've ever seen) and the new Pro only comes with Mavericks.

 

The Pro hasn't been updated in forever, but I always thought Apple went with the previous-OS-and-a-free-upgrade route.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #941 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

 

Don't be silly and condescending. Pros don't typically jump on a new OS version right out of the gate.

 

Now, one thing about major releases is there is usually a minor update within a couple of months that addresses anything major that crops up. Some users will adopt typically after about  to 6 months if they have a higher end system and there are problems with the more strange configurations, which does happen since they can't test every possible scenario.  But Apple typically will spit out their first bug fix VERY quickly and then it's up to the users to update, but the s/w developers are typically on it quickly once Apple releases the OS X update.

 

That's why Apple's adoption rate is VERY quick.  Apple gets users to update much faster than Windows or Android users do and that's FACT because there are less problems. 

post #942 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

Regardless of whether updates are available right away, a lot of Pro shops can take months to update their systems.

 

So the question is relevant if there are shops that are sticking with Mountain Lion (which seems to be as bulletproof a release as I've ever seen) and the new Pro only comes with Mavericks.

 

The Pro hasn't been updated in forever, but I always thought Apple went with the previous-OS-and-a-free-upgrade route.

When a user updates is different than when the s/w from the 3rd party app developers update their apps.  his question was when were the app developers going to release their updates, not when were the users going to upgrade.  Two different questions.  Typically pro users have to make sure all of the major bugs are fixed, which is typically pretty quickly and the apps are usually updated within a month or two after Apple's official release to market.  The only time when it was dragged out was because of the transition from PowerPC to Intel, or 32 bit to 64 bit or Mac OS to OS X, other than that they are pretty fast to update their apps.

 

It depends on when Apple releases new hardware.  Because this Pro model is a departure from the previous models, the MacPro this year will only come with 10.9, so the app developers are compelled to release their updates. 

post #943 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

Regardless of whether updates are available right away, a lot of Pro shops can take months to update their systems.

 

So the question is relevant if there are shops that are sticking with Mountain Lion (which seems to be as bulletproof a release as I've ever seen) and the new Pro only comes with Mavericks.

 

The Pro hasn't been updated in forever, but I always thought Apple went with the previous-OS-and-a-free-upgrade route.

 

The s/w that usually drag their feet are the apps like some of these teeny tiny shareware people that don't really pay attention if their apps are poorly written in the first place OR the app has a lot of interaction with other software or hardware, which Pro Tools falls into that category because they typically have to "BLESS" the OS on their hardware with other products as well.  Pro Tools is PROBABLY one of the longer hold outs, but they will probably have their s/w updated fairly soon after 10.9 gets released.  I would just check with Avid directly.  CAD apps?  They are pretty simple, they really aren't that big of a deal in this case since there isn't any major changes like a processor platform change, 32 to 64 change or any major GUI changes.  It's a pretty straightforward update other than some more features and behind the scene optimizations.  

post #944 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

Regardless of whether updates are available right away, a lot of Pro shops can take months to update their systems.

 

Months or even years.  When I was operations manager of a post production facility we NEVER upgraded the OS until we had good feedback that it was working well with our profit center softwares: Photoshop, Final Cut, Avid, After Effects etc.  Most post facilities are loath to upgrade because they cannot afford to have problems with their money making systems.  Nor do they want to have technical issues while clients are in the room.  There are still facilities out there with ancient systems and OSes that they won't upgrade because they are totally stable and just work.  Not typically high-end facilities, but places that four-wall and offer systems for rental.

 
What I would do is wait several months and then upgrade a single non-critical system and let the editors come in and try to break it.  If it passed the test then I would gradually bring the others systems up.

Edited by WelshDog - 9/17/13 at 2:16pm
post #945 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Any rumours on the Pro's OS capabilities?

On the one hand, Apple would likely prefer to only support the new OS.
But a lot of Pro software (ProTools? Adobe? CAD?) likely isn't Mavericks-ready yet.

There was a description here saying some developers are testing their software with the Mac Pro:

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/mac-pro-amd-gpu-firepro-blackmagic-resolve-10-adobe-cc/

They've always shipped the high-end the same way as the other machines with the latest software. The GPUs will benefit from OpenGL 4 and OpenCL 1.2 support so it'll be better to have all the machines on Mavericks.

Some people have their hands on the top processors, there's a dual setup tested here:



The Mac Pro will have one of those CPUs. The video looks like it says 16 core / 32 thread and it should really be 24 / 48 for that CPU so I'm not sure if it's a software limitation but the score matches up somewhat with other reports. Given that each CPU is over $2600, the setup in the video would be $5200 + margin for just the CPUs and then add on the components and GPUs. Apple never went after this kind of machine spec so now that they have the option of a single 12-core, it makes more sense for them to go single CPU and the value will come from the GPUs when developers decide to leverage them.
post #946 of 1290

Wow.  That's fast rendering that.

 

But that's 16 cores?

 

We'll see 'only' 12 in the new Pro.

 

But that's plenty fast.

 

It's about the dual GPUs now, baby...!

 

When software makers really get into their stride to leverage dual gpus, open gl, cl etc...

 

Good post, Marv.

 

As for Mr. Wizard.  He's right about the re-factored Mini.

 

They could just offer the new Pro case with i7s in them and single gpus.  Boom.  New radical Mini.  Take off the cost of the iMac monitor and you have a boom-tastic mini-tower for mortals.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #947 of 1290
But we know Apple. They can't help their upsell greedy b*st*rdness.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #948 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

But we know Apple. They can't help their upsell greedy b*st*rdness.

Lemon Bon Bon.

That is a problem but it is what makes a refactored Mini interesting, the upsell model is the same chassis with high performance parts
post #949 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Wow.  That's fast rendering that.

But that's 16 cores?

We'll see 'only' 12 in the new Pro.

I think it's 24 cores but the program isn't displaying the right info. Those are the same 12-core CPUs that the Mac Pro will use but it will use one so the performance would be slightly over half the speed but given that one of those CPUs retails at $2749:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925

and Apple would charge over $3k for it (HP charges $3749 - http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/10715666/mfg_partno/721426-B21 ), a dual spec would be very expensive. The model with a single 12-core CPU is likely to be ~$6k so a dual 12-core would be over $9k. Having the option might seem like a nice idea but hardly any customers are going to buy at that price point and people that would, aren't very likely to upgrade often so it doesn't matter from Apple's point of view. Having a single socket motherboard simplifies things for them and people who need extra CPU power can buy multiple machines.

The 4K IGZO displays look like they have nice black levels vs the other displays:



Apple must have something in the works regarding their Cinema Display line. If they could somehow manage to get 4K Cinema Displays for $999 that work with the entry dual W5000 Mac Pros, that would be a pretty competitive system. I suspect they'd want these kind of displays in the iMac too so they can share the panels and keep the price low.
post #950 of 1290
4k very expensive. No kidding. I don't expect Apple doing us any favours on price even if they get them to market.

Still, I look at the retina in the iPad and the Macbook Pros and think, '...what's the hold up?' We're overdue a boost in desktop displays. It's been ages since we've seen much in the way of advances.

The top end res' on my iMac and hi def in general is pretty mainstream now. Heck. Retina is mainstream now. Be nice to see a big 32 inch 4k monitor at a sub £1k price here in the UK. Doubt it though.


I'm sure the 12 core (and hyper-threaded) Xeon that goes in the Mac Pro will be very nice. But out of my budget range for now. I've a few more payments on my iMac (took advantage of the 0% offer last year...) An attractively priced entry Pro would be nice... And there's no doubt dual GPUs are going to have an impact for us going forward.

Personally, I don't see why they couldn't just offer i7 versions of the Pro and much cheaper prices. Give people the alternative to the iMac...and the top end Mac Minis.

Doubt that will happen because of Apple's nickel and dime and artificial upsell model.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #951 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple must have something in the works regarding their Cinema Display line. If they could somehow manage to get 4K Cinema Displays for $999 that work with the entry dual W5000 Mac Pros, that would be a pretty competitive system. I suspect they'd want these kind of displays in the iMac too so they can share the panels and keep the price low.

 

I think when such a thing shows up will be dependent upon when it's cheap enough to use in an imac. They have used a fairly streamlined setup for a long time. I would be surprised if they departed from that.

post #952 of 1290
Good point.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #953 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I think when such a thing shows up will be dependent upon when it's cheap enough to use in an imac. They have used a fairly streamlined setup for a long time. I would be surprised if they departed from that.

Actually there are two parts to the equation here. You need reasonably priced panels which is part of the equation but you also need to be able to drive those panels reliably and without performance artifacts. I suspect GPUs good enough to drive 4K panels with reasonable quality, at a reasonable price is a factor also. Many GPUs simply can't sustain the required data rates across the serial connections to the monitors. Further some bog down at the shear number of pixels to process. Like the panels the low cost solutions to these problems are just coming online.
post #954 of 1290
I guess we'll find out in the next year? (Hopefully...)

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #955 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

I guess we'll find out in the next year? (Hopefully...)

Lemon Bon Bon.

Next year I hope not! Ideally the Mac Pro will have a 4K monitor to ship with it. There is an awful lot of power in that machine and a 4K screen would certainly be of interest to many. I just hope that Apple maintains a more mainstream priced monitor.
post #956 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Actually there are two parts to the equation here. You need reasonably priced panels which is part of the equation but you also need to be able to drive those panels reliably and without performance artifacts. I suspect GPUs good enough to drive 4K panels with reasonable quality, at a reasonable price is a factor also. Many GPUs simply can't sustain the required data rates across the serial connections to the monitors. Further some bog down at the shear number of pixels to process. Like the panels the low cost solutions to these problems are just coming online.

Well official 4k driver support exists on many gpus. Some under Windows also have certification for 10 bit RGB (not sure about RGBA) out as well, even though that is only found on a small subset of all displays. I think integrated graphics must drive these things reasonably well if they want it to be more than a niche product. In any case it works out best when stable driver support precedes shipping hardware. Otherwise you have a product which is difficult to shoehorn in and a smaller number of potential customers. Generally the number of people who would buy something that works out of the box is going to be a lot lower than those who would replace a lot of additional hardware specifically to use one new item, assuming what they already use is still functional.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Next year I hope not! Ideally the Mac Pro will have a 4K monitor to ship with it. There is an awful lot of power in that machine and a 4K screen would certainly be of interest to many. I just hope that Apple maintains a more mainstream priced monitor.

 

I would be surprised if that happens, but they have been more aggressive than I expected on several occasions. There is no way to tell. Since they entered the intel era, Apple basically kept their external display options in lockstep with the imacs. There's some staggering right now in that the thunderbolt displays have not updated their screen treatments, but I am still not sure they plan to break away from that. I'm also mildly curious what they'll do in terms of imac size options when that time comes. It's more an issue of fascination than a desire to purchase an imac.

post #957 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

Well official 4k driver support exists on many gpus. Some under Windows also have certification for 10 bit RGB (not sure about RGBA) out as well, even though that is only found on a small subset of all displays. I think integrated graphics must drive these things reasonably well if they want it to be more than a niche product. In any case it works out best when stable driver support precedes shipping hardware. Otherwise you have a product which is difficult to shoehorn in and a smaller number of potential customers. Generally the number of people who would buy something that works out of the box is going to be a lot lower than those who would replace a lot of additional hardware specifically to use one new item, assuming what they already use is still functional.

 

 

I would be surprised if that happens, but they have been more aggressive than I expected on several occasions. There is no way to tell. Since they entered the intel era, Apple basically kept their external display options in lockstep with the imacs. There's some staggering right now in that the thunderbolt displays have not updated their screen treatments, but I am still not sure they plan to break away from that. I'm also mildly curious what they'll do in terms of imac size options when that time comes. It's more an issue of fascination than a desire to purchase an imac.

 

To get a 27inch screen that's with the same screen specs as the current Thunderbolt is not that different in price from companies like NEC, it's just that those brands get discounted more because they have higher margins and they kind of have to discount them because the PC monitor industry is so competitive.  But it still doesn't have Thunderbolt, but I'm sure DIsplay Port monitors should work.

 

Yeah, of course Apple will come out with a 4K monitor, but I suspect it will be around $2K or so.  They are expensive, unless IGZO comes down in price.  But it might be a bigger than 27 inch.

 

I still always thought Apple should come out with a more robust MacMini with the guts and ports of a high end iMac, kind of like another model priced between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro that's a higher end i5/i7 with lots of RAM, fast SSD, a better GPU, so it would attract the gamers and people that want a more workstation class machine, but just not the XEON based processors.

post #958 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
I still always thought Apple should come out with a more robust MacMini with the guts and ports of a high end iMac, kind of like another model priced between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro that's a higher end i5/i7 with lots of RAM, fast SSD, a better GPU, so it would attract the gamers and people that want a more workstation class machine, but just not the XEON based processors.

You, me and a lot of other Mac users.

post #959 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

To get a 27inch screen that's with the same screen specs as the current Thunderbolt is not that different in price from companies like NEC, it's just that those brands get discounted more because they have higher margins and they kind of have to discount them because the PC monitor industry is so competitive.  But it still doesn't have Thunderbolt, but I'm sure DIsplay Port monitors should work.

 

Yeah, of course Apple will come out with a 4K monitor, but I suspect it will be around $2K or so.  They are expensive, unless IGZO comes down in price.  But it might be a bigger than 27 inch.

 

I like NEC. Eizo was my favorite, but you can't buy a new CG211 anymore:mad:. Those remain the best IPS displays I've seen to date, even if they were limited to 21" in a now dead aspect ratio. Anyway NEC usually starts above Apple in pricing, then tends to bring prices down after the first year or so. In terms of a $2k display, it would be a break from their current model. Right now they sell displays that are meant to appeal to a fairly broad range. The thunderbolt display is effectively a display + dock for notebook users. I expected them to update it sooner to match the imac. Typically they go with the same design in both, giving whatever fraction of imac owners a matching option for a second display as well. It also means fewer parts to validate. I guess they could do that, but I would be genuinely surprised. As for displayport displays, thunderbolt 2 is compliant with displayport 1.2b. That is not the case with the first generation of thunderbolt. I've tested macbook pros with mini displayport to displayport cables. So far I haven't seen any problems.
 

Quote:

I still always thought Apple should come out with a more robust MacMini with the guts and ports of a high end iMac, kind of like another model priced between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro that's a higher end i5/i7 with lots of RAM, fast SSD, a better GPU, so it would attract the gamers and people that want a more workstation class machine, but just not the XEON based processors.

 

Parts of the pricing strategy are simply strategic. I mean by the time you're up to the top imac cpu, it's in line with the price of the cheapest mac pro cpu using launch time pricing for both. It would be pretty much a headless imac, as even though i7s exist beyond what is used in the imac, those use different socket types.

post #960 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

You, me and a lot of other Mac users.

An XMac ! 😜😜😜😜

Seriously though it is a machine that would give us Mid range performance between a Mini and a Mac Pro. Well maybe a bit more than Midrange. The idea though is to get away from Minis thermal limitations.
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