or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro - Page 25

post #961 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple must have something in the works regarding their Cinema Display line. If they could somehow manage to get 4K Cinema Displays for $999 that work with the entry dual W5000 Mac Pros, that would be a pretty competitive system. I suspect they'd want these kind of displays in the iMac too so they can share the panels and keep the price low.

But this one from Sharp is $7500, or so the narrator tells us. How could Apple make it a mere 14% of that?
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
post #962 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple must have something in the works regarding their Cinema Display line. If they could somehow manage to get 4K Cinema Displays for $999 that work with the entry dual W5000 Mac Pros, that would be a pretty competitive system. I suspect they'd want these kind of displays in the iMac too so they can share the panels and keep the price low.

But this one from Sharp is $7500, or so the narrator tells us. How could Apple make it a mere 14% of that?

The minimum retail price is determined by the build costs. The pricing that competitors currently use has other factors like the size of the market. 4K TVs retail at about $5k or more but there's a company selling 4K TVs for $700:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/25/seiki-launches-39-inch-4k-tv-for-699/

What companies often do is price high to see what the market demand is, like Apple did with the original iPhone and then when it takes off, lower the price. Display companies know that their volumes will be much higher on $300 displays than $1000 displays and that some of the people who spend $1000 can also afford $5000. If their margins on the $1000 display are 40%, they make 11x the profit selling a unit at $5000 - they make the same profit for 1/11th the volume. It's the same reason why Apple doesn't lower margins or prices on the iPhone any more - they are in business to make profit and if the market will bear their pricing, they will maintain it.

The same applies with software. Before Apple bought Shake and Color, they were very expensive software packages as they had a limited audience and they brought the prices down to well under $1000. Apple's audience for their ProApps is bigger than the audience that would find and purchase that software directly so they benefit from the economies of scale. They choose whatever strategy gives them the best return.

When it comes to the Cinema Display, they don't sell all that many at $1000 but I expect it will be competitive with the premium models from other manufacturers. Apple's 10K last year says they made $2.7b from peripherals that includes displays, networking and other components. If that was all displays, that puts a maximum volume at 2.7 million displays per year. The likes of Dell sells 5 million displays per quarter:

http://www.techpowerup.com/191101/dell-captures-top-position-in-worldwide-pc-monitors-in-the-second-quarter.html

Dell, HP etc mostly sell to lower end customers but it's possible they sell similar amounts of higher end displays as Apple.

Apple doesn't lower prices over time though so they make better margins after competitors have lowered theirs to very low levels. I think this gives them an advantage over their competition. They obviously have to buy panels from other suppliers so the suppliers set a lot of the pricing but Apple has a plus here too because they already buy over 100 million display panels for the iOS line per year and over 15 million for the Macs that have displays. It's probably only Samsung that can claim this too but they make their own displays and they won't volunteer to vastly undercut PC competitors. Apple's decisions aren't driven by PC manufacturers in the same way, they make whatever decisions suit them and a 4K display at $999 would work well for them.
post #963 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

[^ post]

Excellent post Marvin; thanks.

Wow, $699 for 4K 39" TV. And $1199 for a 50". That is really nice, I just wouldn't want to hook that up to my Mac. There's a world of difference between TV screens and computer monitors. Pixels for one; TV's usually are rectangular and monitors square.

Pixel aspect ratio

I couldn't find if this Seiki is a IPS panel, only interesting thing I found is that it drops to 30Hz when going 4k.
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
post #964 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

[...] That's why Apple releases the Beta versions of the OS, it gives the developers to do modifications of their apps, test it and they aren't at Golden Master yet.

 

Not true of Pro Tools. Every single time Apple issues an OS update it's at least six months before a compatible/approved version of Pro Tools becomes available.

 

Frank777's point was spot-on: Many apps will not be "Mavericks Approved" for months after the new urn is released.

post #965 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Name one major application that wasn't updated within a couple of months from a major update and I'll tell you WHY it wasn't.

 

Who cares why? Whether it's the result of poor planning, code revisions or the phase of the moon doesn't make a lick of difference to the point, which is that some major software will NOT be Mavericks-ready until several months after release day.

post #966 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Wow, $699 for 4K 39" TV. And $1199 for a 50". That is really nice, I just wouldn't want to hook that up to my Mac. There's a world of difference between TV screens and computer monitors. Pixels for one; TV's usually are rectangular and monitors square.

Pixel aspect ratio

I couldn't find if this Seiki is a IPS panel, only interesting thing I found is that it drops to 30Hz when going 4k.

There are some quality differences between a monitor and TV but the pixels should be square on modern TVs. Pixel Aspect Ratio was a problem with old SD video due to anamorphic widescreen content:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_widescreen

They'd record wider frames into a 4:3 format and then stretch them back out on playback. Modern HD formats don't need to accommodate for this - 1080p maps direct to a 1080p display. There's a video here where they hook up a PC to the Seiki - the UI elements are a bit small:



I doubt that this model is IPS and 30Hz is not good for computer use at all as they show. At 11:00 they show some content and the image quality doesn't look too bad but I wouldn't want to use this model as a monitor. Part of the problem just now is getting the connection standards in place. It needs newer HDMI and Mini-DP 1.2. Someone hooked up a Mac to it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1469063/seiki-se50uy04-50-4k-display/30#post_23309193

It shows that it's possible to retail a large high-res panel at a profit for $700. A higher quality panel would have higher build costs but I doubt it would be so much to push it to $5k+ retail. If the Seiki has a 20% margin, the build cost is $560. If a 4K IPS display running at 60Hz was $1000 to build, a 40% margin would retail around $1699. It could be IGZO too:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57593044-37/apple-to-shift-to-igzo-displays-next-year-says-report/

There's an Asus 4K IGZO computer monitor out for $3500 - the PQ321Q:



Same panel as the Sharp one:

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-Electronics-32IN-3840X2160-PNK321/dp/B00C4S25PY
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-PQ321Q-31-5-Inch-4K-Monitor/dp/B00DJ4BIKA

The Dell Ultrasharp will be here Q4 too. Maybe next year would be best for Apple to go Retina on the desktop, they skipped the iMac already.
post #967 of 1290
Well, that video says it all then. Just like you already wrote: 30Hz isn't good to be used as a PC monitor. And yes, I certainly expect Apple to introduce displays with 'more pixels' whether that will be Retina, 4k, 5k, whatever. I just want them to be available in matte, but looking at their history I'm not holding my breath.

OT I'm still baffled at the high prices of high-end video cards, never thought they would run this high. But I'm weird, I thought it was perfectly normal for Apple to ask $3299 for their 30" ACD when announced. Still, glad I only paid €1200 when it was EOL-ed.
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
Reply
post #968 of 1290
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
OT I'm still baffled at the high prices of high-end video cards, never thought they would run this high. But I'm weird, I thought it was perfectly normal for Apple to ask $3299 for their 30" ACD when announced. Still, glad I only paid €1200 when it was EOL-ed.

 

Worst part is, they’ll STAY that high because all the more modern solutions (the system on a chip ones) are, well, system on a chip. They’ll be tons faster and far cheaper, but it won’t matter because they won’t be plug-in-abble.

 

I want a new GPU for my Mac Pro… Guess I’ll have to get an nVidia 7xx or Radeon 7xxx and then never upgrade again or something.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #969 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Worst part is, they’ll STAY that high because all the more modern solutions (the system on a chip ones) are, well, system on a chip. They’ll be tons faster and far cheaper, but it won’t matter because they won’t be plug-in-abble.

I want a new GPU for my Mac Pro… Guess I’ll have to get an nVidia 7xx or Radeon 7xxx and then never upgrade again or something.

You will be able to upgrade but it won't be cheap. The thing here is that the only discrete GPUs that will survive will be high end high performance models. In all likely hood what we call desktop GPUs will soon disappear and that will happen even faster with laptop chips.

In any event look at it this way if Apple didn't have a road map for discrete GPUs we would not have a new Mac Pro coming built around them. You can take that as a sign that the Mac Pro could become more expensive in the coming years.
post #970 of 1290

Really all I care about is having a source for OS X drivers for future cards I might want. I don’t see needing more than one or two as the years go on. Does the Hackintosh crew actually make their own OS X drivers from scratch or do they just modify existing ones to work with unsupported (read: non-factory) cards?

 

Basically I guess I’d want something in either a GeForce 8xx or Radeon Rx 200, whichever’s a better bang for the power draw. Something with more than 512 MB RAM… I’d love 4GB. Would I have to wait until Apple supports at least one of those series cards?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #971 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


You will be able to upgrade but it won't be cheap. The thing here is that the only discrete GPUs that will survive will be high end high performance models. In all likely hood what we call desktop GPUs will soon disappear and that will happen even faster with laptop chips.

In any event look at it this way if Apple didn't have a road map for discrete GPUs we would not have a new Mac Pro coming built around them. You can take that as a sign that the Mac Pro could become more expensive in the coming years.

 

*nods head.

 

It will be interesting to see how/if the iOS platform threatens the viability of the low end Mac market (mini/air...) in the years to come...

 

With the possibility of bigger and more powerful iOS devices in the future...which include retina screens from the get go...and a far bigger software market...generally more reasonably priced.

 

For me, it's not 'if' the mac market gets eaten...but when...and from what direction.

 

Sure...not for a good few years.

 

But we could argue it's already begun with the Smartphone and iPad to a degree.

 

I'm still looking forward to the Pro's release and at least one sanely priced model.

 

But I'm not holding my breath with 'price hike' Apple.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #972 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Really all I care about is having a source for OS X drivers for future cards I might want. I don’t see needing more than one or two as the years go on. Does the Hackintosh crew actually make their own OS X drivers from scratch or do they just modify existing ones to work with unsupported (read: non-factory) cards?

Basically I guess I’d want something in either a GeForce 8xx or Radeon Rx 200, whichever’s a better bang for the power draw. Something with more than 512 MB RAM… I’d love 4GB. Would I have to wait until Apple supports at least one of those series cards?

Apple's drivers would have to support the cards but cards of the same group tend to work so when Apple releases drivers for 700 series mobile, support comes for 700 series desktop:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/384-building-customac-buyer-s-guide-september-2013.html#gfx_cards

The 700 series is a rebrand anyway so it's the same cards as the 600 series. NVidia sometimes puts out Mac drivers (e.g Quadro) but not for many cards.

If the entry new Mac Pro comes with dual W5000 for $2500, it should perform in the same region as a 670/680:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/workstation-graphics-card-gaming,3425-8.html

A whole machine upgrade might cost a bit much but it comes with PCIe SSD too.
post #973 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

*nods head.

It will be interesting to see how/if the iOS platform threatens the viability of the low end Mac market (mini/air...) in the years to come...
It has already impacted laptop use as right now I'm better off using my iPad for a good portion of my mobile use. The impact is so great that I'm seriously considering a desktop for my next "Mac". Apple needs to get the ball rolling with iOS though as it needs to morph into a more powerful platform.
Quote:
With the possibility of bigger and more powerful iOS devices in the future...which include retina screens from the get go...and a far bigger software market...generally more reasonably priced.
The cost of software is a huge factor when it comes to iPad.
Quote:
For me, it's not 'if' the mac market gets eaten...but when...and from what direction.
I still have this idea that people will drop back to desktop Mac hardware once they realize that they don't need a laptop anymore. That Mac might serve a largely different purpose though. It will be sued for apps that excel in a desktop environment and for file and media serving duties.
Quote:
Sure...not for a good few years.

But we could argue it's already begun with the Smartphone and iPad to a degree.
Without a doubt. IPad and smart phones have crippled the PC market.
Quote:
I'm still looking forward to the Pro's release and at least one sanely priced model.
Either a sanely priced Pro or a refactored Mini that doesn't shy away from performance.
Quote:
But I'm not holding my breath with 'price hike' Apple.

Lemon Bon Bon.
Err holding your breath isn''t a bad idea. If you look at the AIR and some other recent hardware Apple is far more aggressive pricing stuff than they ever have been.
post #974 of 1290
It is interesting to hear that AMD has revealed their R9 series of volcanic islands hardware. Timing here is what cause one to perk up, they expect to start shipping in October. Now I'm wondering if compatible versions for the Mac Pro will be ready.

It may be a stretch to expect a brand new GPU for the Mac Pro and Fire Pro is a bit different than the desktop units. However everybody is thinking about Mac Pro hold ups in terms of Intel, but what if they are waiting on a new series of Fire Pro cards. This would mean higher performance for the high end machine while old cards get moved down in the pricing structure. This could mean more power in the entry level machine while keeping the price in check.

Of course the other reality is that Apple has never been aggressive with respect to GPU choices.
post #975 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It is interesting to hear that AMD has revealed their R9 series of volcanic islands hardware. Timing here is what cause one to perk up, they expect to start shipping in October. Now I'm wondering if compatible versions for the Mac Pro will be ready.

 

I'm still unsure how comparable it will be to what is marketed under the firepro label on non-OSX systems. I think they will just launch desktop hardware after the macbook pros are updated. You will probably see one update for the notebooks, then another encompassing at least the imac and mac pro. The mini could ship too, as they are probably not supply constrained on appropriate cpus. I mention that as the notebooks are likely to be a far higher priority.

post #976 of 1290

Invites should be going out soon...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #977 of 1290

The new Mac Pro should be imminent.

 

It was previewed in June?  We're now into October.  (Wasn't this the month the 'new' iMacs were previewed last year?)

 

If Apple wants to avoid another 'late shipping' disaster they'd do well to make sure the Pro is available this month.  (Sure, historically, they've launched Power Macs in November...January....but this time...surely this month, October.)

 

Mavericks has gone 'Gold Master.'  The Pro was previewed almost five months ago.

 

Late October shipping?  Will it launch alongside Macbook Pros for a bit more exposure?

 

I'm excited about it...even though I have a very powerful flagship iMac.

 

Spiritiually it's hard not to think of myself as a Mac Tower owner.  I'll never forget my 604e Power Mac Clone that I had.  That and my Adobe suite and my Wacom tablet.  I was a very happy person.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #978 of 1290

The "New mac pro" guy on Facebook was reporting that retail stores are sending back their stock, but Apple's website shows both configurations available for pickup at all my local locations.  I do hope this happens soon.  I'm holding off on a new iMac until I see the final specs and price.

post #979 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post
 

The new Mac Pro should be imminent.

 

It was previewed in June?  We're now into October.  (Wasn't this the month the 'new' iMacs were previewed last year?)

 

Apple has the Mac Pro and Macbook Pro, the Mini and iPad, Mavericks and Final Cut all still to come this year. And a new TB Display.

 

Unless they've gone insane, I expect them to break these into at least two different events.

 

That would mean we've got October and November events still to come.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #980 of 1290
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
Invites should be going out soon...

 

Not for this. It already had its keynote.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #981 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

The new Mac Pro should be imminent.

It was previewed in June?  We're now into October.  (Wasn't this the month the 'new' iMacs were previewed last year?)
They said this fall, still plenty of time to meet their schedule.
Quote:

If Apple wants to avoid another 'late shipping' disaster they'd do well to make sure the Pro is available this month.  (Sure, historically, they've launched Power Macs in November...January....but this time...surely this month, October.)
Why winter isn't here yet, further Mac Pro shipments are currently near zero. The reality is Apple has a lot of work to do to reestablish the Mac Pros credibility. Due to this it would be best to make sure the product is robustly stable.
Quote:
Mavericks has gone 'Gold Master.'  The Pro was previewed almost five months ago.
That right there should calm you down.
Quote:
Late October shipping?  Will it launch alongside Macbook Pros for a bit more exposure?

I'm excited about it...even though I have a very powerful flagship iMac.

Spiritiually it's hard not to think of myself as a Mac Tower owner.  I'll never forget my 604e Power Mac Clone that I had.  That and my Adobe suite and my Wacom tablet.  I was a very happy person.

Lemon Bon Bon.

I'm most interested in seeing what happens to both the Mini and the Mac Pro. As far as the Mac Pro goes, I'm hoping we see signs that Apple has removed head from ass and markets the new Pro at a reasonable price.

A key thing with this release is Mavericks which should turn the Mac Pro, all Macs really, into far more powerful machines. That and TB which I keep hearing interesting things about. One rumor is the support of IP protocol over TB possibly leading to cheap high performance clustering.
post #982 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I'm still unsure how comparable it will be to what is marketed under the firepro label on non-OSX systems. I think they will just launch desktop hardware after the macbook pros are updated.
Well on the Mac Pros any new AMD chip would have to be shipping in its FirePro version. It is hard to say if AMD would have new FirePro support on the new silicon so early. Some people seem to indicate that the major difference is the drivers, not the silicon, I'm not sure I believe that honestly. In any event the big thing here is that these new AMD GPU chips should run far cooler due to a process shrink, this is a big deal for the Mac Pro.
Quote:
You will probably see one update for the notebooks, then another encompassing at least the imac and mac pro. The mini could ship too, as they are probably not supply constrained on appropriate cpus. I mention that as the notebooks are likely to be a far higher priority.

I can see the rest of the stuff, that is Mac stuff being released on the same day. I just believe they are all being delayed for common parts. The only exception is possibly the Mini, which I have this suspicion that it will be morphed into a new platform.
post #983 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not for this. It already had its keynote.

Not really, that was a release to developers with much still under NDA. The general public is not really keyed into this resource.

So if you believe that we need a formal release to engage the general public. Second we need a debut to get all the NDA protected goodness of Mavericks public. Yeah plenty of leaks may make that seem unneeded but again they have to formally promote these things to the general public. This by the way isn't a keynote, something that heads off a conference, but rather a product demo. Apple could have some product surprises at this demo.
post #984 of 1290
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
The general public is not really keyed into this resource. So if you believe that we need a formal release to engage the general public.

 

It’s not a device for the general public. It would show up at a keynote, as a second or third act, if there exists a 4K Thunderbolt Display, and even that would only be a sideline to the MacBook Pro. And if the MBP doesn’t get an event (because, let’s face it, it’s just Haswell; why would it?), then why would the Mac Pro?

 
Second we need a debut to get all the NDA protected goodness of Mavericks public.

 

Why? They’ve never done one before.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #985 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It’s not a device for the general public.
Yes but Mavericks has a wider audience.
Quote:
It would show up at a keynote, as a second or third act, if there exists a 4K Thunderbolt Display, and even that would only be a sideline to the MacBook Pro. And if the MBP doesn’t get an event (because, let’s face it, it’s just Haswell; why would it?), then why would the Mac Pro?
If nothing special was happening with the MBP they would have just slipped it in with the iMac update. It is rather curious that they didn't do this in the first place.

However you seem to equate an event with a big stage production, this might not be the case. In any event it won't be on the scale of WWDC. All they may do is have a small press gathering where the new features of the MBP, Mini and Mac Pro are laid out. There is a big difference between a press event and WWDC.
Quote:

Why? They’ve never done one before.
Huh? I'm pretty sure they have. They generally announce the release of an OS to the general public and if there is hardware to go with it, that hardware. Again we aren't talking WWDC conferences here.
post #986 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If nothing special was happening with the MBP they would have just slipped it in with the iMac update. It is rather curious that they didn't do this in the first place.

I found that a little unusual. They have broken several of their long-standing trends in the last year or so. One that I noticed here was that the imac was refreshed prior to notebooks. Typically notebooks are always refreshed first, and the imac was within 12 months of its last update. It could just a matter of what was ready coupled with a desire to space updates whenever possible.

post #987 of 1290
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Huh? I'm pretty sure they have. They generally announce the release of an OS to the general public and if there is hardware to go with it, that hardware.

 

You probably remember better than I do, but I don’t remember that happening ever. An OS itself doesn’t get an event; we’ve always just heard about it at WWDC or MacWorld.


Oh, are you thinking of iOS? iOS always used to get a preview event.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #988 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Not really, that was a release to developers with much still under NDA. The general public is not really keyed into this resource.

So if you believe that we need a formal release to engage the general public. Second we need a debut to get all the NDA protected goodness of Mavericks public. Yeah plenty of leaks may make that seem unneeded but again they have to formally promote these things to the general public. This by the way isn't a keynote, something that heads off a conference, but rather a product demo. Apple could have some product surprises at this demo.

The general public doesn't care about a $2500+ specialized machine like this.  And other than specific model numbers of the known components and pricing options, it's a known commodity.  There are no "one more thing" moments for this product. 

 

I'm sure they're waiting to ship this with Mavericks as that will be the only OS to support Thunderbolt 2 and have AMD Firepro drivers.  If it doesn't just show up for preorder some sunny morning, it'll be a side note at the next hardware event. 

post #989 of 1290

It looks like it could be late October for Mavericks and the Pro.  This month.

 

I can see them making a dual Pro desktop and laptop launch.  To put the 'Pro' back on the map.

 

Both prob' have TB2?

 

Still, Apple does what they like.  But they haven't got that much time to announce iPads, Mac Mini, Pro, Laptops..Mavericks...and what about a 4k studio display...(*thinks about Sharp...)

 

2 months until  Christmas fever closes in.  So, surely this month it all kicks off?

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #990 of 1290

Maybe they'll can the mini and just offer a 'mid-tower' version of the Pro with sanely priced components?

 

Rebirth of the mini-tower?

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #991 of 1290

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #992 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Maybe they'll can the mini and just offer a 'mid-tower' version of the Pro with sanely priced components?
This is one reason I think some sort of announcement is coming. The fact the both the Mini and Mac Book Pro have yet to update highlights that more than a general rev of these machines is about to happen.
Quote:
Rebirth of the mini-tower?
A mediaeval tower perhaps. No not an iPad spelling error! the idea just came to mind that if you put two new Mac Pros close together with a draw bridge in the center you have what looks like an ultra modern entrance to a castle. A sign of sleep depravation perhaps.
Quote:
Lemon Bon Bon.

In any event I do have this feeling that more than the Mac Pro we know is coming. Even if the other macs are ignored we still have the fact that it would be best for Apple to have a few system components to go with the Mac Pro. For example the 4K monitor, a TB attached storage array maybe even a TB attached computational node. I just can't see the Mac Pro going on sale in a vacuum.
post #993 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


This is one reason I think some sort of announcement is coming. The fact the both the Mini and Mac Book Pro have yet to update highlights that more than a general rev of these machines is about to happen.

 

I think it's more likely that Apple simply wants the Pro to be the first machine out with TB2.

 

Announcing the MBP or Mini steals the spotlight from the new top-of-the-line Mac.

 

I also wouldn't get your hopes up about a Minitower. Apple know fully well that xMac partisans have always wanted a $1500. tower, and only offered a comparable product once. That is deliberate corporate strategy. With TB2 offering expansion opportunities, Apple is not going to kill Pro sales with a bold Mini, or kill iMac sales with a $1500. tower.

 

It simply isn't going to happen.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #994 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

The general public doesn't care about a $2500+ specialized machine like this.  
I disagree. The general public has taken lots of interest in the Mac Pro and other pro machines from Apple over the years. The same could be said about the rMBP which can be nearly as expensive as the Mac Pro yet people do have an interest in the machine.
Quote:

And other than specific model numbers of the known components and pricing options, it's a known commodity.  There are no "one more thing" moments for this product. 
Maybe too you. However do you really think Apple would throw this machine onto the market without any sort of announcement? More so would they do so without supporting hardware to go with it? I just don't see a silent release happening, Apple needs to instill in people minds that this is a credible system able to do the work they need to get done.
Quote:
I'm sure they're waiting to ship this with Mavericks as that will be the only OS to support Thunderbolt 2 and have AMD Firepro drivers.  If it doesn't just show up for preorder some sunny morning, it'll be a side note at the next hardware event. 

The next hardware event is exactly what we are talking about which needs to happen real soon to get the Mini and MBP out the door also. Oh and launch Mavericks. How much time they devote to the Mac Pro, new monitors and what have you isn't the point. The point is the machines need to be rolled out and be made public ally available. I just think there is more going on here than can be covered in a press release buried on Apples web servers.
post #995 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I think it's more likely that Apple simply wants the Pro to be the first machine out with TB2.

Announcing the MBP or Mini steals the spotlight from the new top-of-the-line Mac.
It may simply be scheduling. My understanding was that Intel didn't intend to ship TB 2 until next year and the early release is directly related to a push from Apple.
Quote:
I also wouldn't get your hopes up about a Minitower.
If you call it a Minitower you have already biased your mind as to what the machine could be.
Quote:
Apple know fully well that xMac partisans have always wanted a $1500. tower, and only offered a comparable product once. That is deliberate corporate strategy.
It is a corporate strategy that has hung around for a very long time developed under drastically different conditions. These day you have a Mini with tanking sales just like the rest of the desktop line up. You battle declining markets with new compelling products. Apple could very well revise the Mini simply in the hopes of spurring sales. Or they could do so to address the issue of supporting a bunch of incompatible hardware in a declining market. In fact the ability to use common parts between a Mac Pro and a Mini replacement could do much to keep both machines feasible.

The old iMac, Mini and Pro where great to have around when sales where strong with reasonable gains in sales every year. That time has passed for most desktop manufacture. The strategy laid out ten years ago simply is of no value today. The reality with Haswell is that Apple can offer far better value for most user with desktop components.
Quote:
With TB2 offering expansion opportunities, Apple is not going to kill Pro sales with a bold Mini, or kill iMac sales with a $1500. tower.
The idea that a desktop chip with 2-4 cores can impact Mac Pro sales is a joke. Such a machine wouldn't impact Mac Pro sales anymore than the current iMac does. In any event let's be honest here iMac sales are flat if not in decline, Mini sales are in decline and as we all know Mac Pro sales have been so pathetic that it didn't bother Apple to do a prerelease of the new Mac Pro. That should tell you something right there.

The lineup needs a shake up. The new Mac Pro is part of that shake up. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised to shake things up a bit more and refactor the Mini. Maybe it won't be based on the Mac Pro, but it is likely to be significantly different from the iMac.

I'm just trying to resolve in my own mine why the iMac got a silent update and the Mini is currently the same old Box. Would they even put TB 2 in the Mini as that is kinda contra to its low cost nature?
Quote:
It simply isn't going to happen.

Maybe maybe not, but do you really think the Mini will come in the same old chassis with TB 2 tacked on? Something doesn't add up here. Further if TB 2 was this close and Apple considered it an imperative for the low end machines why wasn't the iMac held for TB 2? I just find the situation interesting to say the least.
post #996 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


This is one reason I think some sort of announcement is coming. The fact the both the Mini and Mac Book Pro have yet to update highlights that more than a general rev of these machines is about to happen.
A mediaeval tower perhaps. No not an iPad spelling error! the idea just came to mind that if you put two new Mac Pros close together with a draw bridge in the center you have what looks like an ultra modern entrance to a castle. A sign of sleep depravation perhaps.
In any event I do have this feeling that more than the Mac Pro we know is coming. Even if the other macs are ignored we still have the fact that it would be best for Apple to have a few system components to go with the Mac Pro. For example the 4K monitor, a TB attached storage array maybe even a TB attached computational node. I just can't see the Mac Pro going on sale in a vacuum.

 

True.  I doubt the new Landmark Pro will just arrive in isolation.  It's Mavericks.  The Pro.  4k Monitor (they've been on sale since earlier this year?)  It's planets in alignment stuff.  They've had several years to get this right.  The components are there.  It's just the timing.

 

It's not just going to arrive on its own with no studio display or Mavericks.  

 

Similarly.   No mini update alongside the iMac.  Very intriguing.

 

Basically, the last pro was being chased down by the Mini it was so out of date.

 

But the new 'Pro' is so 'Mini' now...why not save production costs, do away with the Mini and just have  the Pro with the internals you want?  From Mini spec?  iMac spec?  Pro spec?

 

One 'box' or 'cylinder' to rule them all?  The pro is a 'mini'.  

 

So why not be able to have the 'mini' as the 'pro' but with an i7 in it and a 780MX and price it at £999 inc Vat and what it fly out stores?

 

One at £799 inc VAT, i7 with SSD and Iris graphics.

 

Prosumer Pro in Space Grey or Aluminium.  Mac Pro in Black.  See what I did there?

 

Would streamline teh desktop way more.  And you don't have to worry about packing in the components in too small a space.  You have a far more scaleable design for it to be a 'order whatever you components' you want to 'white box' (or black cylinder in this case...)

 

Offer a range of components.  Let the user configure.

 

In fact, you could even wipe out the iMac with this idea.  Just one cylinder.  Studio display.  One of each.  One desktop.  One monitor.

 

Config' with the Mini-iMac-Pro specs.  Ultra steamlined.

 

I could go for that...  Surely they'd save a fortune this way?  And maximise desktop profits?  It may even coax over some more PC switchers if they could just configure a 'tower' (cylinder) to just about any spec.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #997 of 1290
 
Maybe maybe not, but do you really think the Mini will come in the same old chassis with TB 2 tacked on? Something doesn't add up here. Further if TB 2 was this close and Apple considered it an imperative for the low end machines why wasn't the iMac held for TB 2? I just find the situation interesting to say the least.
 
 

 

 
 
 
 

 

You could be onto something there...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #998 of 1290
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

 

 

But the new 'Pro' is so 'Mini' now...why not save production costs, do away with the Mini and just have  the Pro with the internals you want?  From Mini spec?  iMac spec?  Pro spec?

 

One 'box' or 'cylinder' to rule them all?  The pro is a 'mini'.  


...

 

 

In fact, you could even wipe out the iMac with this idea.  Just one cylinder.  Studio display.  One of each.  One desktop.  One monitor.

 

Config' with the Mini-iMac-Pro specs.  Ultra steamlined.

This is indeed a good idea. I would like to be offered the possibility to configure at will such a cylinder, from the Mini up to the Pro specifications, and just add a monitor to it.

 

What I don't know is how strong the all-in-one approach is still going in Apple. With all the i-devices, and especially with the new Pro concept, they seem to move to a more modular design. But I am afraid the thinned-out iMac form is too new to be phased out so quickly.

post #999 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Maybe maybe not, but do you really think the Mini will come in the same old chassis with TB 2 tacked on? Something doesn't add up here. Further if TB 2 was this close and Apple considered it an imperative for the low end machines why wasn't the iMac held for TB 2? I just find the situation interesting to say the least.

 

You could be right, but the hope of a real midrange Mac alternative has been beaten out of me over the years.

 

I'd be totally happy if Apple just gave access to the 27" iMac's internal drive. Surely with SSDs an eject function can be added.

 

I still say that Apple wants TB2 to debut on the Pro as a talking point, so the iMac will get it in the first 2014 rev, and the TB2-less Mini will get announced silently the week the Pro debuts.

 

Experience triumphs over hope for me, especially when discussing Apple and their hardware margins.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #1000 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

True.  I doubt the new Landmark Pro will just arrive in isolation.  It's Mavericks.  The Pro.  4k Monitor (they've been on sale since earlier this year?)  It's planets in alignment stuff.  They've had several years to get this right.  The components are there.  It's just the timing.
I'd actually have to ask what in hell is up at Apple if they didn't have a complete solution to debut with the new Mac Pro. It would be a huge mistake to throw the machine on the market alone.
Quote:
It's not just going to arrive on its own with no studio display or Mavericks.  

Similarly.   No mini update alongside the iMac.  Very intriguing.
I don't understand this one either, if the Mini doesn't get a silent update then what changed?
Quote:
Basically, the last pro was being chased down by the Mini it was so out of date.

But the new 'Pro' is so 'Mini' now...why not save production costs, do away with the Mini and just have  the Pro with the internals you want?  From Mini spec?  iMac spec?  Pro spec?
The idea that Apple could throw a low cost board into that Mac Pro chassis is very intriguing to say the least. They might even be able to offer a server version with the single board computer on one side and SSDs or hard drives on the other two sides. Frankly it would make for a better server compared to the Mini.
Quote:
One 'box' or 'cylinder' to rule them all?  The pro is a 'mini'.  

So why not be able to have the 'mini' as the 'pro' but with an i7 in it and a 780MX and price it at £999 inc Vat and what it fly out stores?
Here is the interesting thing, Haswell with Iris will be good enough for many. However there are those that need a bit more, so why not offer an option of a video card from the Pro machine. They can use a model that didn't reach the top of the "up to" label.

In effect this turns the Mini replacement into a two slot machine if they recycle as much of the Mac Pros hardware as possible. The chip sets might not support GPUs in both slots if you run out of PCI Express lanes (depends upon the Haswell choosen). With care though I think Apple could hit somewhere between $1200-1500 dollars US.
Quote:
One at £799 inc VAT, i7 with SSD and Iris graphics.
Yep! People question the possibility should only look at MBA. Ditch the laptop parts and you have a similar price structure for the Mac Pro Jr.
Quote:

Prosumer Pro in Space Grey or Aluminium.  Mac Pro in Black.  See what I did there?
I wouldn't even bother to change colors.
Quote:
Would streamline teh desktop way more.  And you don't have to worry about packing in the components in too small a space.  You have a far more scaleable design for it to be a 'order whatever you components' you want to 'white box' (or black cylinder in this case...)
This is the thing, Apple could offer one unit with a 45 watt Haswell and another with a 75 watt Haswell. This would provide for a significant performance delta for MP Jr, while still leaving a huge gap between them and the pro machine. The big difference here being cores which is what many Pro apps are all about.
Quote:
Offer a range of components.  Let the user configure.

In fact, you could even wipe out the iMac with this idea.  Just one cylinder.  Studio display.  One of each.  One desktop.  One monitor.
Wiping out the iMac concept would make my day. Not so much the machine but rather the idea that it isn't serviceable for the things most likely needing service. The Mini currently isn't as bad as the iMac but the Minis functionality delivered in a Mac Pro chassis should be far more serviceable.
Quote:
Config' with the Mini-iMac-Pro specs.  Ultra steamlined.

I could go for that...  Surely they'd save a fortune this way?  And maximise desktop profits?  It may even coax over some more PC switchers if they could just configure a 'tower' (cylinder) to just about any spec.

Lemon Bon Bon.
Well the reality is this, they have to do something different to address the changing market! The Mini is a nice machine, don't get me wrong on that account, but sales are slipping and it isn't the Mini nor Apples fault. Desktop sales where on the decline well before iPad. A platform that can span user needs from near the bottom to as near the top as the Mac Pro goes would be ideal.

In any event I hope that in 11 days we see more than an iPad debut. It would be very frustrating to go through another Apple roll out that doesn't cover what you are interested in. Well OK everything you are interested in.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro