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US assembly of Apple's new Mac Pro to be handled by Flextronics - report - Page 2

post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

It might be interesting if someone went to the trouble to see what kind of computer you could actually put together with only USA manufactured parts and how much it would cost.  

Until someone creates chips that don't need the metals from China it will be impossible. Not if you want expect it to be US companies also.

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post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.

It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!

TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....

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post #43 of 84
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Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Apple will bring most of it's products back to the U.S. because they can't keep their products secret if they are manufactured outside of the country.

Bringing them back here won't change that. Well not unless they can get Obama to make leaks a terrorist action or some other insane measure.

Look at all the store policy etc leaks, many of those come from retail staff in the US.

Personally I think that Apple should not move all production to the US. I think they should set up say 3 regions and produce the products selling in that region within its borders. Set up regional offices, pay taxes etc according to that areas laws (which in some cases would mean sub areas of paying 'sales tax' by the country the sale was in).

I know Apple started in the US but it is a global company now so thinking global isn't a hideous thing.

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post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside." 
Thanks for my first laugh of the morning. lol.gif
post #45 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I'm not American, so asking you guys. I understand patriotism and all, but if this is a company from Singapore, then this Made in USA thing isn't bringing in $$$ into the US, except for labor. Am I correct? And if so, would you rather have it being made by an American company? So the profit would flow into the US as well.

Labor means pay for Americans, plus labor based taxes. Which is what the US government wants.

Truth is the US is lacking in home grown advanced engineers to create these companies and products from scratch. Right not the solutions are either import the products or import the producers.

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post #46 of 84
Aren't there specific requirements for being able to put a Made in the USA label on something? Or is this label just going to say Assembled in the USA? 1hmm.gif
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.  

 

They way they are pushing California, I think they believe that somehow the rest of the world has a more positive opinion of California than they do of the USA in general, but I think they are probably not correct about that either.  

 

The only explanation I have for why Apple is doing this sort of thing is that like most Americans, they are blissfully unaware of how the rest of the world really sees the USA and actually believe that line about America being a "world leader" that everyone "looks up to."  

 

For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside." 

you know you do not have to buy American products from a country you despise so much......

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post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....

I know..right? A computer probably contains at least 100 different mined elements from all around the globe. The US actually produces a lot of silicon. What some people do not realize is that the manufacturing process for chips produces a lot of toxic waste. Personally,I am fine with the chips produced in China. A single cpu could create more than 50 lbs. of waste and use two thousand gallons of water. Another interesting fact is that the manufacture of a computer uses more electricity than the actual computer will use during its average four year lifetime.

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post #49 of 84
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Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Borhter, Whole world knows that CA is in US.  Its really feel good to see a nation's name rather than CA.

In the end it comes down to that is what they want to do. And Apple does what they want as much as they legally can. (And if you side with the DOJ even when they legally can't)

Apple is apparently proud of being founded and still based in California. Why? Perhaps it's because of the connection to Silicon Valley, perhaps it is because that's where Steve Jobs grew up, perhaps it's something else that they won't tell because that's one of their secrets

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post #50 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Aren't there specific requirements for being able to put a Made in the USA label on something? Or is this label just going to say Assembled in the USA? 1hmm.gif

1. It's unlikely that the requirements for electronics include that every component have has to be produced here also

2. Most of those requirement campaigns were for the pretty red, white and blue 'official' label and I doubt Apple is gunning for that. It would clash with the new UI color schemes.

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post #51 of 84
They use the label 'Designed by Apple in California' because that has a lot more cachet than the generic 'USA'. It conjures up more specific imagery, movie stars, fancy cars, surfboards, wealth, casual elegance, and, the real Apple in particular, known for its cutting edge design.
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post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

They use the label 'Designed by Apple in California' because that has a lot more cachet than the generic 'USA'. It conjures up more specific imagery, movie stars, fancy cars, surfboards, wealth, casual elegance, and, the real Apple in particular, known for its cutting edge design.

yes....more like Mavericks huh? 1wink.gif

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post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

1. It's unlikely that the requirements for electronics include that every component have has to be produced here also
 

What? Is Wikipedia and Google broken today?

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post #54 of 84

Anytime I prefer Flextronics of Singapore than Foxconn of China. Who cares about Made/Assembly/Design in America or California!  Chinese are unfair when they go against you. They try to hurt the business in every possible way. Tim Cooked had to lick Chinese when media was going against Apple in China...huh

post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

It just says "Designed in California. Assembled in USA."  Would like to see "Designed & Made in USA"

Assembled does not sound good. It still says... parts are manufactured in China. They were shipped to USA and were assembled.

Nonsense. IIRC, it can have up to 74% US content and still not say 'made in the USA'. That's still a very good amount. Cook specifically stated a few months ago that this was not purely an assembly operation and they wanted to include as much US content as possible. You have no clue how much of the content was made in China.

Besides, would you rather have them do nothing about US production - like the rest of the industry - or at least make some steps toward on-shoring?
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post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.

It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!

 

So, what product is truly made in USA then?

 

Clearly not cars or any consumer products, based on your criteria.

post #57 of 84

Here’s an early prototype:

 

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post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Until someone creates chips that don't need the metals from China it will be impossible. Not if you want expect it to be US companies also.

Irrelevant. Your reference to rare earth metals is irrelevant for the Mac Pro. It's somewhat relevant for LCD screens and LEDs, but there is little in the Pro which requires rare earths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.!

The law is pretty clear - if they have 75% of the manufacturing cost produced in the US, they can call it "Made in the USA":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
If it has less than 75%, it MAY be possible to make that claim, but it's weaker and more likely to be challenged. For the Mac Pro, that's a very difficult standard to meet. Look at the current $2500 Mac Pro. The CPUs alone are probably 30% of the total cost - and Apple has no US-manufactured alternative. The point of the entire matter is that Apple is doing what they can to bring manufacturing back to the US, but they can't do everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!

Before accusing Apple of lying, why don't you produce the exact statement that Cook made? Then, tell us exactly what percentage of US content is going to be in the Mac Pro systems. Then, tell us what other computer manufacturer has greater US content. Furthermore, keep in mind the difference between colloquial usage and the legal requirements (which dictates the label). For the average consumer, if they have 70% US content and assemble it here, it's made in the USA, even though they couldn't label it as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.  

Nonsense. Virtually every country in the world does it.

The French consider any wine from outside of France to be garbage. Koreans will buy anything from Korea when they can. Germans consider non-German products to have inferior engineering. The list goes on and on.
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post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Irrelevant. Your reference to rare earth metals is irrelevant for the Mac Pro. It's somewhat relevant for LCD screens and LEDs, but there is little in the Pro which requires rare earths.
The law is pretty clear - if they have 75% of the manufacturing cost produced in the US, they can call it "Made in the USA":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
If it has less than 75%, it MAY be possible to make that claim, but it's weaker and more likely to be challenged. For the Mac Pro, that's a very difficult standard to meet. Look at the current $2500 Mac Pro. The CPUs alone are probably 30% of the total cost - and Apple has no US-manufactured alternative. The point of the entire matter is that Apple is doing what they can to bring manufacturing back to the US, but they can't do everything.
Before accusing Apple of lying, why don't you produce the exact statement that Cook made? Then, tell us exactly what percentage of US content is going to be in the Mac Pro systems. Then, tell us what other computer manufacturer has greater US content. Furthermore, keep in mind the difference between colloquial usage and the legal requirements (which dictates the label). For the average consumer, if they have 70% US content and assemble it here, it's made in the USA, even though they couldn't label it as such.
Nonsense. Virtually every country in the world does it.

The French consider any wine from outside of France to be garbage. Koreans will buy anything from Korea when they can. Germans consider non-German products to have inferior engineering. The list goes on and on.

I must say I agree with everything you say here.
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post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I'm not American, so asking you guys. I understand patriotism and all, but if this is a company from Singapore, then this Made in USA thing isn't bringing in $$$ into the US, except for labor. Am I correct? And if so, would you rather have it being made by an American company? So the profit would flow into the US as well.

 

Absolutely.  I was just going to write, "If Flextronics can operate U.S. factories at a profit, why can't an American owner operate U.S. factories at a profit?"   Is it competence?   Is it that Flextronics is willing to operate at a lower profit than a U.S. investor would?    Is it that U.S. investors aren't interested in factories?   

 

I think this is a problem.    It's still a benefit because we get some jobs, the associated taxes and the spending associated with a local business, but I still would have liked to have seen this new assembly plant be American owned.   I think Apple could have helped facilitate that by being willing to make an investment in it.

 

On the other hand, let's say it was American owned.   If it were privately held, the profits would flow back only to its owners.   If it were publicly held, the profits would presumably flow back only to its (mostly rich) investors.   So in the end, it might not make that much difference.   

 

Frankly, I think the only reason Apple is doing this is for the P.R. benefit.    As a very high-end machine that has already been roundly (sic) criticized, I doubt they'll actually sell very many.   

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

When it goes into production in America later this year, Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop will reportedly be built in U.S. facilities run by Singapore-based manufacturer Flextronics.

The official Flextronics website reveals that the company already has facilities in a number of locations across the U.S., including Texas, California, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and both North and South Carolina. The report did not indicate which U.S.-based Flextronics facility will handle assembly of the new Mac Pro.

, , , but Tim Cook did. He said they'll be assembled in Texas, which would almost certainly put them in the same plant assembling Motorola's X Phone unless Flextronics has multiple facilities in that state.

By the way, Cook said they'd be assembled in Texas, not built or made in the USA.
Edited by Gatorguy - 6/13/13 at 9:41am
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post #62 of 84
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Originally Posted by philipm View Post

Here’s an early prototype:

 

 

That is the Anki Special Edition model....

post #63 of 84
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

So did D-Link


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D-link's circular routers have been out for at least a year now, and they work quite well. The Samsung G-can is another matter altogether....
post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.

It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!

I'm with Apple on this one. They seam to be honest enough to take into account that most computer components are simply not manufactured in the states. Of course that is true for all "American made" computers. So kudos to Apple. 

post #65 of 84
Some people can never be pleased. You can make it designed and made in the USA, they'll say but it's not organic. You make it organic, and they'll say but it's not 100% organic. You make it 100% organic, and people will find another reason to go after it.

I am a big proponent of buying things made in America but some things I know are impossible at the moment.
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tape View Post

I've never seen it on an actual product. It's generally the first thing you see when you open the packaging though.

I can't attest as to when the practice started, as the first non-used Apple product I bought was in 2005. With the Mac mini I bought in 2005, when you opened the box, "Designed by Apple in California" was written on the topmost thing on the inside of the box.

The MacBook Pro I got in 2008 had a similarly prominently-placed message, and I've seen it in the packaging of all of my iPhones, but again, never actually on the product.
Look at the back of your iPhone.
The back of my iPhone 4S has "Designed by Apple in California".
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

It just says "Designed in California. Assembled in USA."  Would like to see "Designed & Made in USA"

 

Assembled does not sound good. It still says... parts are manufactured in China. They were shipped to USA and were assembled.

 

Legally they must say "assembled" if a certain number of internal components come from outside the US. So this is not a choice for Apple, it's a legal requirement. It would be utterly impossible to ensure the majority of internal components are manufactured in the US. So give them some credit!

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by glnf View Post

I'm with Apple on this one. They seam to be honest enough to take into account that most computer components are simply not manufactured in the states. Of course that is true for all "American made" computers. So kudos to Apple. 


That's not totally true. Memory chips are made here. SSDs have been made here. I'm not sure about now. Intel still makes cpus here. Intel has manufacturing facilities. Samsung has plants in Texas. There's Micron. As for assembly, I know Boxx is in Texas. Obvious the US has way less of this than Asia. Note Asia, not China. It goes beyond one country.

post #69 of 84

When you look at the backside of certain Samsung products, it should say, designed in California, poorly ripped off in Korea.

post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tape View Post

 

I've never seen it on an actual product. It's generally the first thing you see when you open the packaging though.

 

I can't attest as to when the practice started, as the first non-used Apple product I bought was in 2005. With the Mac mini I bought in 2005, when you opened the box, "Designed by Apple in California" was written on the topmost thing on the inside of the box.

The MacBook Pro I got in 2008 had a similarly prominently-placed message, and I've seen it in the packaging of all of my iPhones, but again, never actually on the product.

Look by the serial numbers and such. Also, it's on the back of any iPhone (right under the word 'iPhone', with all of the other little fine print). As someone above noted, it hasn't been since day 1, but it's been around for quite awhile.

post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

As someone above noted, it hasn't been since day 1, but it's been around for quite awhile.

 

At least for more than decade, since I have very old iPods that have "Designed by Apple in California" on them.

 

I also have an iMac from 1999, and that does not say "Designed by Apple in California" on it. It says "Assembled in Mexico".

post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Borhter, Whole world knows that CA is in US.  Its really feel good to see a nation's name rather than CA.

How a chinese fellow feel to see "Made in Shanghai" other than "Made in China."

 

Don't you think Apple products represent the nation-US?  Its a token of pride and the products speak to the world about USA.  

 

There are a lot of places in the world were "I'm from California" will get you a warmer reception than "I'm from the US". California means Hollywood. US means Washington DC. CA means fun and cool. US means politics and wars. Combined with that Apple also appears to love it's CA roots, I'm not surprised at all the say designed in CA.

On other note, anyone know the breakdown of Mac Pro sales in the US vs non-US? If the vast majority are US sales, there might not be much of an economic downside to assembly in the US. Might even cost less to ship the components here than a fully assembled and packaged unit.
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

There are a lot of places in the world were "I'm from California" will get you a warmer reception than "I'm from the US". California means Hollywood. US means Washington DC. CA means fun and cool. US means politics and wars. Combined with that Apple also appears to love it's CA roots, I'm not surprised at all the say designed in CA.

California is almost like a separate country. 

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post #74 of 84
Did anybody realize Mr Kuo only tells rumors for stuff that has momentum? Until a week ago, Mr Kuo ignored the Mac Pro like if it wasn't relevant in the keynote. Now he comes happy to announce rumors about the Mac Pro production. What a boy!
post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

 

Legally they must say "assembled" if a certain number of internal components come from outside the US.

To be correct, Apple doesn't have to put anything on it.

But they cannot put Made in America if it has less than a certain percentage of components/costs from inside US.


Edited by Chris_CA - 6/13/13 at 7:12pm
post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

If you look inside it is full of Galaxy's...

Nice burn
post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.  

They way they are pushing California, I think they believe that somehow the rest of the world has a more positive opinion of California than they do of the USA in general, but I think they are probably not correct about that either.  

The only explanation I have for why Apple is doing this sort of thing is that like most Americans, they are blissfully unaware of how the rest of the world really sees the USA and actually believe that line about America being a "world leader" that everyone "looks up to."  

For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside." 

It is all marketing, true, but I doubt the rest of the world cares where it is built. Patriots of all nations take pride in their work and building quality products for the rest of the world to see, it is nothing that pertains only to citizens of the US and should not be frowned upon. The US and its citizens do a lot of good around the world and provide a vast amount of charitable contributions to countries in need. I have no love for our politicians, but I do for our people.
post #78 of 84

But i prefer aluminum!

 

IMG_0700.JPG

                   

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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

So did D-Link

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post #79 of 84

Why do you say this?
 

post #80 of 84

Maybe from Taiwan or Thailand hopefully not China!

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