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AT&T adds emergency alert system to iPhone 5 and 4S with software update [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Hays View Post

It is wrong and NO, you can't opt out of it. You cannot opt out of the presidents personal forced line of communication with you. You can only opt out of the AMBER and FEMA alerts.

This is the equivalent of forcing you to subscribe to instant alerts from my twitter feed. I haven't found anything regarding what the president can and cannot send to me, and truthfully, I don't want him sending me or my kids unsolicited messages.

 

If only we could all opt out of your messages too.

 

This is exactly why it's mandatory-- because of ignorant people like you who think the President will start sending you his campaign messages through it.  They're protecting you from yourself by not letting you turn it off.

post #42 of 97
I want to disable ALL of this BS. No interest in Government intrusions of any sort on my devices!
post #43 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

This is exactly why it's mandatory...

Whoa, whoa, whoa... That makes zero sense.
Quote:
They're protecting you from yourself by not letting you turn it off.

What gives someone the right to force me to listen to them?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

"AT&T adds emergency alert system" so that Big Brother can talk us whenever it wants.

Sure this system is optional now. But since it is in our own best interest, how long before these become mandatory alerts? How long before we are require to acknowledge official alerts with a thumb print? And how the heck do we know what this or any other software update mandated by the government really contains in a closed system? Where can I get a look at the source code of this update to make sure it has nothing else in there to spy on us with the location tracking, microphones or cameras?

I fully admit that the above is paranoid thinking but if there is one thing the last couple of weeks have taught us is that we are not being paranoid enough.

 

You were naive about it, but there's no reason to think the NSA cares about the text messages you send to your girlfriend when your wife isn't looking.

post #45 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

...no reason to think the NSA cares...

Does that it make it right for them to know what they are at all?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #46 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

I think it's telling that the so-called "emergency" system is for the 4S & 5 only, and not for the 4 which they continue to sell under a two year contract, and for which will almost certainly get an update to iOS 7 making it a current phone for at least another model year. Guess if you want to be 'safe' you'll have to upgrade HA!

I thought they couldn't sell the 4 or 4s anymore due to a patent violation ruling handed down by the ITC. Has this been reversed?
post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Whoa, whoa, whoa... That makes zero sense.

 

Gotta complete the thought by using the rest... "because of ignorant people like you who think the President will start sending you his campaign messages through it"

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What gives someone the right to force me to listen to them?

 

The government has the right to prevent you from harming yourself.  If that means sending someone a text message to let them know about an incoming nuclear attack then that's what they'll do.

post #48 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCPA View Post


How does AT&T know which location I'm in in order to send me a tornado warning? Is this based on the address information AT&T has on file or actual location services on my phone?

I would tend to think that the latter - using location services - would be the case, thus implying that this is a two-way communication, not just a one-way communication between the EAS and myself as others have suggested.

Nope, two-way means you can respond or at least something like third-party notification.
It's one-way because all they would do is push the alert message to the cell towers in the area in question, and whoever connects to those cell towers (because they live there or happen to pass through) would receive it.
post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Does that it make it right for them to know what they are at all?

 

I'm alright with the NSA possibly filtering through my communications.  Some people knew this was going on in the first place, but there wasn't proof.

 

What are you afraid of?

post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

I want to disable ALL of this BS. No interest in Government intrusions of any sort on my devices!

They're not sending you memes or jokes of the day, they'd send you messages saying your life is in danger, for example:
"New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina's coming. Drop everything and drive westward!"

Or
"Terrorists just flew a couple of planes into WTC1&2. We suspect more attacks are imminent. Avoid high rises and/or leave the city for a couple of day"

Things like that ^
post #51 of 97
The solution to stop this is to install a custom carrier file that disables this functionality!

For example, the ones here: http://www.itweakios.com
post #52 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

Gotta complete the thought by using the rest...

No, my reply took into consideration the rest. Would you like me to waste my time and quote the rest of it while typing "That makes zero sense" all over again, or did you seriously not understand that's what I meant?
Quote:
The government has the right to prevent you from harming yourself.  If that means sending someone a text message to let them know about an incoming nuclear attack then that's what they'll do.

Mmm... no, they don't get to force that upon me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

What are you afraid of?

Thanks for the logical and ethical fallacy. I'm not "all right with it", as its legality is seriously questionable at best, as well as it being a harbinger of emotional harm.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #53 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

I want to disable ALL of this BS. No interest in Government intrusions of any sort on my devices!

You're quite lost if you consider an alert that could potentially save your life as a government intrusion.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #54 of 97

No I am already opted out since I have a custom carrier file installed that DOES NOT HAVE THESE BIG GOVERNMENT INTRUSIONS.  Yes, itweakios has them, among others...

 

The LAST thing I want is some forced proclamation from Barry Soetoro on my property that martial law is declared for some farce of a reason due to some "emergency".

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziadjk View Post


They're not sending you memes or jokes of the day, they'd send you messages saying your life is in danger, for example:
"New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina's coming. Drop everything and drive westward!"

Or
"Terrorists just flew a couple of planes into WTC1&2. We suspect more attacks are imminent. Avoid high rises and/or leave the city for a couple of day"

Things like that ^
post #55 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, my reply took into consideration the rest. Would you like me to waste my time and quote the rest of it while typing "That makes zero sense" all over again, or did you seriously not understand that's what I meant?
 

Your original reply to me was a bit ESL, perhaps because of your shortcut, but I did my best to respond.  So, if you want to be bothered to put in the effort to form a complete reply and have a real discussion about something in particular that I said then feel free.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Mmm... no, they don't get to force that upon me.
 

In the US, if someone is about to shoot themselves, the police will intervene-- they are allowed to do that.  Are you seriously arguing that they won't try to stop you?

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thanks for the logical and ethical fallacy. I'm not "all right with it", as its legality is seriously questionable at best, as well as it being a harbinger of emotional harm.
 

Again, what are you afraid of?

post #56 of 97

Wow really -- alerts from a bygone era!  Archaic WWII timeframe system -- today people have VAST access to news resources and other push notifications.  

 

Government is MUCH more the problem, than any kind of solution!  I want LESS government in my life -- this just adds MORE.  No thanks!  What is this, Communist China?!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


You're quite lost if you consider an alert that could potentially save your life as a government intrusion.
post #57 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

Again, what are you afraid of?

Large spiders, falling unabated from heights greater than 10 feet, and people like you who think logical fallacies equal actual arguments.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

No I am already opted out since I have a custom carrier file installed that DOES NOT HAVE THESE BIG GOVERNMENT INTRUSIONS.  Yes, itweakios has them, among others...

 

The LAST thing I want is some forced proclamation from Barry Soetoro on my property that martial law is declared for some farce of a reason due to some "emergency".

 

 

 

It's quite delusional to think the carrier profile update will be used to take ones property away.

post #59 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Large spiders, falling unabated from heights greater than 10 feet, and people like you who think logical fallacies equal actual arguments.

 

So maybe I can draw the conclusion that you're afraid to have a real discussion with me?

post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

So maybe I can draw the conclusion that you're afraid to have a real discussion with me?

Heavens no! So when you get anywhere near a real discussion, just let me know.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Heavens no! So when you get anywhere near a real discussion, just let me know.

 

It's seriously entertaining to continue going back and forth with you about why you're afraid of the NSA reading your internet communications, but alas I must start ignoring the forum emails alerting me to a reply from you and stop coming back in here.  Real life calls.

post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Wow really -- alerts from a bygone era!  Archaic WWII timeframe system -- today people have VAST access to news resources and other push notifications.  

Government is MUCH more the problem, than any kind of solution!  I want LESS government in my life -- this just adds MORE.  No thanks!  What is this, Communist China?!


There's still much that the government gets right and this is one of them.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #63 of 97

Thank you to those who pointed out (accurately) that if I had read the article carefully, I would have seen that I could turn the PUSH notifications off.  Thank you also to those who point out that this is the first step is the government forcing us to accept their push notifications whether we want to participate or not.  

 

And for those who do not either read or understand the Constitution:  Please refer to Article 1, Section 8 (the enumerated posers section) and also to Amendment #10.  The constitution is explicit in telling exactly what the federal government may do and specifically prohibits it from doing things outside those enumerated powers.  And NO!  THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A LIVING DOCUMENT.  It contains provisions for changing it.  It is not subject to the whims of the Supreme Court.

 

Please gentlemen and ladies...do not mouth off about things you have neither studied nor understand.  It just makes you look foolish and uninformed.

SkyKing
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SkyKing
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post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

Real life calls.

Later, skater. Again, spend some time out there and come back with a real argument.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post


I'm alright with the NSA possibly filtering through my communications.  Some people knew this was going on in the first place, but there wasn't proof.

What are you afraid of?

Just because you are alright with it -- and perhaps give a hoot about the fourth amendment -- does not mean that millions of others do. For instance, I am not ok with it.

You ≠ World.
post #66 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post


Again, what are you afraid of?

Ah, I assume that, if you have broken no laws, you would have no problem allowing the FBI to search your house without a warrant, should they ever show up at your front door and ask to do that.

After all, what are you afraid of?
post #67 of 97

It's like using a tornado siren, or reverse 911.

 

A primary reason to do it by cell in addition to radio stations or landlines, is that 1/3 of the country has no landline now.  And your privacy is actually better with mobile than reverse 911, because there's no need for anyone to know your cell phone number... it simply transmits to anyone using a cell in the alert area.

 

For example, after the Boston Bombings, the alert system was used to ask everyone to shelter in place while the bombers were at large.

 

Btw, Verizon's had it for a year.  Those of you who didn't have it already, missed out on the only Presidential alert that we'll hopefully ever get, which was a national test alert transmitted last Fall to make sure the system could do it.


Edited by KDarling - 6/15/13 at 1:04pm
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Whoa, whoa, whoa... That makes zero sense.
What gives someone the right to force me to listen to them?

Maybe because, oh, I don't know, this service is provided via FCC regulated and controlled RF spectrum?  Just like television and radio.  You can't opt out of the alerts on the TV and radio, either.

 

In case someone wants to understand how/why this works:

 

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/emergency-alert-system-eas

 

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-emergency-alerts-wea


Edited by runbuh - 6/15/13 at 1:30pm
post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

Maybe because, oh, I don't know, this service is provided via FCC regulated and controlled RF spectrum?  Just like television and radio.  You can't opt out of the alerts on the TV and radio, either.

In case someone wants to understand how/why this works:

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/emergency-alert-system-eas

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-emergency-alerts-wea

Just as a preemptive response to those who will inevitably respond by saying "but we can turn off our TVs and radios", yes and you can turn off your phone too lol
post #70 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Ah, I assume that, if you have broken no laws, you would have no problem allowing the FBI to search your house without a warrant, should they ever show up at your front door and ask to do that.

After all, what are you afraid of?

 

We're not talking about house searching.  We're talking about filtering through electronic communications.

 

You're like those idiots that say, "Well if we let men marry men then what's next?  People marrying farm animals?"

 

Get a grip.

post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

"AT&T adds emergency alert system" so that Big Brother can talk us whenever it wants.

Sure this system is optional now. But since it is in our own best interest, how long before these become mandatory alerts? How long before we are require to acknowledge official alerts with a thumb print? And how the heck do we know what this or any other software update mandated by the government really contains in a closed system? Where can I get a look at the source code of this update to make sure it has nothing else in there to spy on us with the location tracking, microphones or cameras?

I fully admit that the above is paranoid thinking but if there is one thing the last couple of weeks have taught us is that we are not being paranoid enough.

 

It's the cell phone equivalent of emergency broadcast system.

You didn't protest a public address system that gave you early warning about the Soviets launching a first strike against the West.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #72 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Later, skater. Again, spend some time out there and come back with a real argument.

 

Do you see the irony in your statement?  All you've got are personal attacks.

post #73 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Just because you are alright with it -- and perhaps give a hoot about the fourth amendment -- does not mean that millions of others do. For instance, I am not ok with it.

 

Why don't you do something about it then, instead of posting here?

post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky King View Post

Thank you to those who pointed out (accurately) that if I had read the article carefully, I would have seen that I could turn the PUSH notifications off.  Thank you also to those who point out that this is the first step is the government forcing us to accept their push notifications whether we want to participate or not.  

 

And for those who do not either read or understand the Constitution:  Please refer to Article 1, Section 8 (the enumerated posers section) and also to Amendment #10.  The constitution is explicit in telling exactly what the federal government may do and specifically prohibits it from doing things outside those enumerated powers.  And NO!  THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A LIVING DOCUMENT.  It contains provisions for changing it.  It is not subject to the whims of the Supreme Court.

 

Please gentlemen and ladies...do not mouth off about things you have neither studied nor understand.  It just makes you look foolish and uninformed.

 

And just how do you intend to enforce your declaration that the Constitution is not subject to the whims of the SCOTUS. Simply saying something is unconstitutional does not make it so, especially when the person saying it is not a member of the Supreme Court. It is and has been the job of the SCOTUS to interpret the Constitution and they have done so since it's inception. My departed brother-in-law was like you, always mouthing off about how this or that was unconstitutional. Of course things he agreed with were always constitutional and things he didn't like always seemed to be unconstitutional. That's why we have judges as arbiters.

post #75 of 97

Reading through all these reminds me that Americans are generally getting more stupid by the day.  Unbelievable.

post #76 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Just because you are alright with it -- and perhaps give a hoot about the fourth amendment -- does not mean that millions of others do. For instance, I am not ok with it.

You ≠ World.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

 

Why don't you do something about it then, instead of posting here?

 

Well, that's the rub isn't. These guys get all fired up about their rights, and their liberties, and their opinions BUT, that's where it stops. They are unwilling to take the next step, trying to do something about it. They think the ballot box won't change anything (because their fellow citizens are stupid sheep, don't you know) so all they are left with are their impotent rantings. That next step eludes them because they are mouthy cowards in the end.

post #77 of 97

Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

 

Government is MUCH more the problem, than any kind of solution!  I want LESS government in my life -- this just adds MORE.  No thanks!  What is this, Communist China?!

 

Put your money where your mouth is, move to a place with little or no functioning government, e.g. Somalia or some remote island in an Indonesian archipelago.

Report back to us in a year or two how so much better your life is without government.

Others will follow your lead if you end up better off as a result.

post #78 of 97
WEA is one of the best alerting protocols to ever come out. The AMBER alerts sent to phones have already been proven to help recover kidnapped and endangered children. The severe weather alerts help wake people when there is severe weather coming, acting like a smoke alarm for tornadoes. Let's all hope the presidential alert is never used... You know something bad is happening when that happens.

As far as privacy, the alerts are a broadcast alert, your phone sends nothing back to the tower, AT&T, Apple, the Government, or anyone else. The alerts are encoded with a specific ID so your phone knows if it's gotten the alert yet if it moves to a new tower in the effected area.

Yes, it is optional, but enabled by default. I would encourage everyone to keep it enabled as it could save your life someday...
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazwatson View Post

Why don't you do something about it then, instead of posting here?

Your sophomoric arguments are only trumped by your density.

How do you know I am not? In any event, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand?
post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


Well, that's the rub isn't. These guys get all fired up about their rights, and their liberties, and their opinions BUT, that's where it stops. They are unwilling to take the next step, trying to do something about it. They think the ballot box won't change anything (because their fellow citizens are stupid sheep, don't you know) so all they are left with are their impotent rantings. That next step eludes them because they are mouthy cowards in the end.

See above.
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