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After crowning Samsung as Apple's heir, analysts now rethinking their math - Page 3

post #81 of 136
Wha
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

DED, you make my day every time I find any article by you. Wishy washy I cannot stand. Straight up I like, both my information and my Scotch. 

What exactly is wishy washy scotch? 1smile.gif
post #82 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

 

I don't need to learn any facts.  What I'm pointing out is that SHIPPED DOES MEAN SOLD unless returns are made.

No it doesn't.  The Apple vs Samsung trail made that as clear as most already knew.  Samsung was supposedly selling 20 million Galaxy's per quarter in the US but when they were forced to disclose actual sales in court they actually sold 25 million over 2 and a half years. You never hear anything about returns because they don't have to disclose that.  So shipped does not mean sold.  If Apple followed their method they would count every phone they sent to their supply chain including their stores.  The other telling factor is the fact that whenever the carriers report their sales the iPhone has been half or more of their sales in the US even though they are only pushing Android phones.   

post #83 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It could very well be embarrassing but it is also difficult for them to know the exact numbers of devices sold to end users. How many mom and pop cell phone stores are there in the 60 countries that have Samsung devices on their shelves? Do you think that they report back to Samsung how many devices they've sold? There needs to be terms to differentiate sales, because for instance a iPhone is actually sold 3 times to reach the end user. Foxconn sells them to Apple, Apple sells them to the carriers, and the carriers sell them to the end user. The second point of sale is labeled 'shipped' whereas the third point of sale is 'sold'.

 

What a fallacious post, while it's true Samsung have no idea of how much devices they sold, Apple control pretty much every aspect of their devices.  Unlike Samsung, Apple is vertically integrated all the way down to the end users, Apple knows exactly how many iDevices they have into users hands. 

post #84 of 136
This just a bit to funny.

"Samsung announced having shipped a record ten million units of the new S4 to its global partners, beating its shipments of last year's S3 model with a number that was also compared to Apple's Initial sales of 5 million iPhone 5 units....The difference was that Apple actually sold 5 million units in its first three days..."

Did we not learn anything from Amazon when they shared sales figures and it turned out the numbers reflected the number they shipped to Bestbuy, and were still on the shelf?

"Samsung has been trying to prop up sales of the S4 by experimenting with a flurry of models sporting smaller screens,"

Wait, i'm confused. wasn't Apple gonna fail cuz their screen was to small? I thought the Phablet was gonna kill Apple.

"The report cited analysts as pointing to "lacklustre prospects in Europe and [Samsung's home territory of] South Korea in particular," adding that "the S4, in reality, also lacks any real wow factor.""

OK, now I'm really confused. I thought Samsung was killing Apple with its new features and designs? I thought iOS was getting old and tired?

Somehow wall street decided that since all those high fahlootin stock traders had cell phones in their pockets that they had more knowledge and insight into smart phones than those dolts at Apple. You know, the same ones who predicted the iPhone failure because it didn't have the neccisary physical keyboard?
post #85 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Wha
What exactly is wishy washy scotch? 1smile.gif

Johnnie Walker Red lol
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post #86 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Samsung deserves the losses. It can continue to sell its smartphones. But losses will pile up.

By taking the high end, Apple will still take the lion's share of the profits.
Sorry,James. I posted the wrong name in my thumbs up comment. Should have been: "Short and sweet words of wisdom, James."

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post #87 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

What a fallacious post, while it's true Samsung have no idea of how much devices they sold, Apple control pretty much every aspect of their devices.  Unlike Samsung, Apple is vertically integrated all the way down to the end users, Apple knows exactly how many iDevices they have into users hands. 

I guess you didn't read my other posts where I state that, and Apple doesn't know exactly how devices is in users hands because the second after they've determined a number it already changed.
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post #88 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinthar View Post

This is actually worrying news for Apple as well, IMO. Pretty much every premium smartphone released in the past year has failed to live up to the sales expectations of Wall Street. In the case of Apple, the surprising story has been how much the iPhone 4 and 4S at lower price points have cannibalized sales that likely would otherwise have been iPhone 5 sales -- for many customers, having an iOS smartphone with excellent build quality is all they needed; the extra speed and features of the iPhone 5 weren't enough fro them to spend more for it.

I suspect that Samsung is finding that many of its customers are opting for the price-reduced Galaxy S3 instead. Or the market for high-end Android will no longer accept cheap build quality and has opted for the HTC One.

Or, perhaps most likely, many smartphone customers aren't bothering to upgrade when their contracts are up because their current phone works well enough and they're waiting until the day that they drop their phone in the toilet to use the upgrade pricing.

Although most people on this site, including myself, would never trade away LTE or the speed and extra screen size of the iPhone 5 for a $100-200 discount on an older model, we're the minority of consumers.

When the 5S and cheap plastic iPhone are released, I think Apple will discontinue the iPhone 4, 4S, & 5 altogether and force consumers to choose either the premium build of the 5S, or a plastic iPhone if they want the free with subsidy option.

I wish the market research would actually list every mfg and product they offer and how many of each are being sold, so we can see breakdowns by individual products.  

post #89 of 136
A couple of people have claimed that "Shipped means sold unless returns are made." Uh, no.

In the case of some contracts with distributors, they get large discounts when ordered under a non-return agreement. If they can't actually sell a product they may use it as a give-away or as a loss leader. True, selling a product as a loss is still a sale, but if I were to sell 10,000 Toyota autos for $10 each the actual picture is much more apparent. There's aways a price point where second-rate products will sell.

So products shipped or even sold doesn't give a great picture: numbers don't lie, but liars can sure put out numbers. A far more accurate assessment could be obtained by looking at the number of units activated. That would show the number of units actually in end-users' hands.

Curiously, Samesung refuses to give out that information. I wonder why that is.
post #90 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by [CDN]switch View Post

Actually for Samsung, shipped means simply shipped and not sold because they don't share their sales activity readily whereas for Apple, they will only talk about shipped when it equates to sales.

In all fairness, if you look at the footnotes to their financial statements, both Apple and Samsung follow broadly similar revenue recognition criteria, and both of them technically report 'shipments.'

 

The important difference is: (i) Apple also provides channel inventory data, so we can estimate actual sales quite well; (ii) Apple reports volumes. And we know that all of Apple's volumes refer to high-end smartphones.

post #91 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by rttheartist View Post

This just a bit to funny.

"Samsung announced having shipped a record ten million units of the new S4 to its global partners, beating its shipments of last year's S3 model with a number that was also compared to Apple's Initial sales of 5 million iPhone 5 units....The difference was that Apple actually sold 5 million units in its first three days..."

Did we not learn anything from Amazon when they shared sales figures and it turned out the numbers reflected the number they shipped to Bestbuy, and were still on the shelf?

"Samsung has been trying to prop up sales of the S4 by experimenting with a flurry of models sporting smaller screens,"

Wait, i'm confused. wasn't Apple gonna fail cuz their screen was to small? I thought the Phablet was gonna kill Apple.

"The report cited analysts as pointing to "lacklustre prospects in Europe and [Samsung's home territory of] South Korea in particular," adding that "the S4, in reality, also lacks any real wow factor.""

OK, now I'm really confused. I thought Samsung was killing Apple with its new features and designs? I thought iOS was getting old and tired?

Somehow wall street decided that since all those high fahlootin stock traders had cell phones in their pockets that they had more knowledge and insight into smart phones than those dolts at Apple. You know, the same ones who predicted the iPhone failure because it didn't have the neccisary physical keyboard?

Moral of the story: Never listen to a sell-side analyst from Wall Street. This is doubly important for Apple. I find it laughable when they throw out suggestions for products that Apple should sell, like a 5-inch iPhone or a cheaper iPhone. Do they seriously think they can run Apple better than Tim Cook and his team? 

post #92 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I guess you didn't read my other posts where I state that, and Apple doesn't know exactly how devices is in users hands because the second after they've determined a number it already changed.

You know the last time i've check, you can't use an iDevices without being activated thru iTunes or iCloud first, making it a great way to know exactly how many devices is in use in real time. 

 

BTW, did you know Apple HQ receive sale transaction from every Apple Store around the world in realtime and modulate the production on a daily basis. Normally all Apple's production is sold within 48 hours. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 6/17/13 at 8:18am
post #93 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post
The bulk of Apple's channels are direct to end users.

Cite? Evidence?

post #94 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Wha
What exactly is wishy washy scotch? 1smile.gif

Johnnie Walker Red lol

Although that is 1000x better than the swill that passes off under the brand name Dewars.... 1wink.gif

post #95 of 136
This article has been hijacked by trolls with the help of apple enthusiasts (and some posing as Apple fans). Who remembers what DED's article was actually about. The trolls must be in heaven, delighted watching the gullible arguing over how many Samsung phones can dance on the head of a pin. 1oyvey.gif

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post #96 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by webweasel View Post

Okay, so let's try that another way...

Shipped = sold - returns

ML shipped 28m units.  How many were returned?  As it's a digital download, safe to say ≈ 0.  ∴ Sales ≈ 28m

Galaxy S4 shipped 10m units.  How many were/will be returned?  Unknown.  2-5m?  ∴ Sales < 10m and may be < 5m

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I agree, I would have it more like sold = shipped-(remaining stock +returns)

Even with your modification, you're wrong.

The correct formula is:

Sold = shipped - returns - (change in inventory levels)

If you're closing out an item and selling off inventory, you can still have sales without shipping anything. Similarly, if inventory increases enough, you can have shipments without sales.

For a new product, there is undoubtedly an increase in inventory - which is why the numbers are wrong if you use 'shipped' as your metric. For a steady state product (i.e., total iphone sales where total inventory remains fairly constant), shipments are close to sales.

I doubt if returns are significant in either case.
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post #97 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

You know the last time i've check, you can't use an iDevices without being activated thru iTunes or iCloud first, making it a great way to know exactly how many devices is in use in real time. 

 

So over the weekend I did a factory reset on my iPad.....it then had to be activated through iTunes......so does that count as a sale or new activation?

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post #98 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You guys are way over thinking this. There are two channels for shipping. One to end users directly and one to resellers. The bulk of Apple's channels are direct to end users.

If something is shipped to an end user, it is SOLD.
If something is shipped to a reseller, it is just shipped (not sold since the reseller would sell the item). Although Samsung may get a profit at that point, it's meaningless if it never ends up in an end users hands.

Samsung relies more on 3rd party resellers like Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc., so when they ship 10 million units, this is to stock their 3rd party resellers.
When Apple ships 10 million, almost all of those will be to end users. Some also go to Apple stores, which typically sell out immediately, and a trifle make it to third party resellers, which also sell out immediately. Apple 3rd party resellers are typically are lower priority than direct end users sales and Apple Stores, as those same 3rd party resellers often complain that Apple chokes them out of sales.

As a result, when Samsung says it 'sold' 10 million, it just shipped them to a reseller for resale, but it doesn't mean they ended up in a users hands
The opposite is true for Apple.

So true, DJ. Ana what ever his name is jut a troll, raging in sheep's clothing. Thanks, AI, for the blocking feature.

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post #99 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

 

So over the weekend I did a factory reset on my iPad.....it then had to be activated through iTunes......so does that count as a sale or new activation?

 

Since you reactivated a previously activated iPad, its serial number (or what ever unique identifier apple uses) haven't changed, it still count has one iPad sold, not 2.

 

The important number here is not how many activations but how many serial or UUID has been activated at least once. I'm pretty sure Apple knows how to handle all the stats generated by his virtual and physical Store and got a pretty exact figure on sold devices. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 6/17/13 at 9:08am
post #100 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

Since you reactivated a previously activated iPad, its serial number (or what ever unique identifier) haven't changed, it still count has one iPad sold for Apple, not 2.

 

The important number here is not how many activations but how many devices produced has been activated at least once. 

 

I am not disputing what you say about the activation but I am curious...how do you know? I bought my iPad 4 several months ago on Craigslist...it was on Verizon. But I have service through AT&T.....process is just to insert the AT&T sim card and restart the iPad and all is good. But then my data speeds did not match up to my other devices so i reset it and reactivated it on AT&T......does that show as a new activation for AT&T? Does AT&T then report it as a new device activation? Since it was not on AT&T before but on Verizon?

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post #101 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Cite? Evidence?

Because the list of actual 3rd party resellers are TINY by comparison. For example, I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex, with approx 6 Million or so for the area, give or take, and there are about 10 resellers (not including apple Stores, of which there are about 4). Look for yourself

https://www.apple.com/buy/

Most of these are mom and pop, with some notable exceptions like Best Buy, Walmart, etc. and you know as well as any Apple customer that when a new model iPhone is out, you can't find them in stock in any of the big chains. There are entire ecosystems of apps designed just to help someone find a possible 'in stock' item for an iPhone.

Lastly, the issues with those actual 3rd Party resellers and their problems with Apple shorting them on stock to sell are a matter of public record.

http://gigaom.com/2011/12/30/apple-sued-over-third-party-reseller-inventory-practices/
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post #102 of 136

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I wish the market research would actually list every mfg and product they offer and how many of each are being sold, so we can see breakdowns by individual products.  

 

There is market research available with that info, but you have to pay big bucks for the reports.   That's how they pay for doing the grunt work of checking parts orders, factory output, customs office records, store sales, etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

No it doesn't.  The Apple vs Samsung trail made that as clear as most already knew.  Samsung was supposedly selling 20 million Galaxy's per quarter in the US but when they were forced to disclose actual sales in court they actually sold 25 million over 2 and a half years. 

 

Articles that said that confused world sales with US infringed device numbers.  What the trial showed, was that US sales were a fraction of world sales at the time, and that percentage is even lower nowadays.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You guys are way over thinking this. There are two channels for shipping. One to end users directly and one to resellers. The bulk of Apple's channels are direct to end users.

 

Even in the US, where there are plenty of Apple stores and online buyers, the majority (almost 80%) of iPhone sales are through retailers.  Outside the US, carriers and other retailers would be even more of a majority.

 

 

(In the US, Apple has 250 stores.  AT&T, Verizon, Best Buy and Sprint have over 6,300.)


Edited by KDarling - 6/17/13 at 8:58am
post #103 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

 

I am not disputing what you say about the activation but I am curious...how do you know?I bought my iPad 4 several months ago on Craigslist...it was on Verizon. But I have service through AT&T.....process is just to insert the AT&T sim card and restart the iPad and all is good. But then my data speeds did not match up to my other devices so i reset it and reactivated it on AT&T......does that show as a new activation for AT&T? Does AT&T then report it as a new device activation? Since it was not on AT&T before but on Verizon?

 

Many things goes with the activation process, the cellphone service is one of them and doesn't concern Apple much beside providing the right carrier config file to the device when the sim card is activated. 

 

Now what concern us here is having a right picture of how much devices is really sold to end users, with an activation process based on a hardware unique identifier this stats is easily obtainable for Apple on both end (From stores sales numbers and users activations)

post #104 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Because they deal with many more than Apple does, many being of the mom and pop variety.

 

So?  Just because there are "more" doesn't automatically make things impossible.

post #105 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

 

So over the weekend I did a factory reset on my iPad.....it then had to be activated through iTunes......so does that count as a sale or new activation?

I never did a factory reset in my (iPhone, iPad) life. Why do you wanna do it?

post #106 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

 

So?  Just because there are "more" doesn't automatically make things impossible.

He's just an apologist. Samsung stated clearly when they ceased to report units sold. The reason was "for competitive reason", not that they had problems accessing data from mom and pop stores.

post #107 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Because the list of actual 3rd party resellers are TINY by comparison. For example, I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex, with approx 6 Million or so for the area, give or take, and there are about 10 resellers (not including apple Stores, of which there are about 4). Look for yourself

https://www.apple.com/buy/

Most of these are mom and pop, with some notable exceptions like Best Buy, Walmart, etc. and you know as well as any Apple customer that when a new model iPhone is out, you can't find them in stock in any of the big chains. There are entire ecosystems of apps designed just to help someone find a possible 'in stock' item for an iPhone.

Lastly, the issues with those actual 3rd Party resellers and their problems with Apple shorting them on stock to sell are a matter of public record.

http://gigaom.com/2011/12/30/apple-sued-over-third-party-reseller-inventory-practices/

What about the sales via carriers?

 

Add: I see that KDarling provided some interesting evidence.

post #108 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

I never did a factory reset in my (iPhone, iPad) life. Why do you wanna do it?

 

To Geekdad's defence, he got some performance issue because he switched provider. According to his story, the carrier file wasn't updated and limited is performance.  

 

While I've never been a format-reinstall advocate, I do know sometime it is faster to wipe everything and start over than troubleshooting. 

post #109 of 136
Quote:

Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post
 

Google Glass Banned From Google Shareholder Meeting

Love that! Hypocrites.

 

Thank you.

post #110 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

So?  Just because there are "more" doesn't automatically make things impossible.

Makes it much more difficult and many probably don't even report back.
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post #111 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I was hoping for evidence that Samsung didn't actually sell the 10 million phones in the first month, but there was none.  Calling shipments anything but sales only rings true when the shipments have to be returned.  There is no evidence of that whatsoever.

Speaking of shipped versus sold, did anyone else notice that Tim Cook announced SHIPMENTS of Mountain Lion in the keynote?  It's at 16:20 if anyone wants to go look.  I take it that most of those copies weren't sales. /s

Here, let me spare you the effort:




Additionally, there are many manufacturers you can pick on for a lack of updates, but Samsung shouldn't be one of them.  Even the Galaxy S2 is running Jellybean.

Finally, I think it's fair to say that Samsung copied aspects of iOS early on, but it's laughable to say that they would have to copy iOS 7 (unless you're only talking about the appearance of it) since Apple borrowed so much from Android in its update.

Shipments does not mean sold. Physical items can be returned back to the manufacturer unsold. Unfortunately Analysts know this, but don't care.

I doubt Apple borrowed anything from Android. If anything there are throwbacks to MacOS 6 and Windows 3.x
post #112 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

I never did a factory reset in my (iPhone, iPad) life. Why do you wanna do it?

 

I thought I was clear why......did you read my comments? Please go back and read my comments and you will see why....

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post #113 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

Shipments does not mean sold. Physical items can be returned back to the manufacturer unsold.

Does anyone report those return numbers, either due to unsold/old stock or warranty issues? Not that I'm aware of.
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post #114 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

To Geekdad's defence, he got some performance issue because he switched provider. According to his story, the carrier file wasn't updated and limited is performance.  

 

While I've never been a format-reinstall advocate, I do know sometime it is faster to wipe everything and start over than troubleshooting. 

 

exactly.....AT&T kept having me disable then reenable cellular data to have go out and attach to AT&T...that is not a fix but a work around. So I did a factory reset and set the ipad up as a new and did not restore from the previous backup in iTunes. This seems to somewhat fixed the slow data throughput on my iPad.

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post #115 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What about the sales via carriers?

Add: I see that KDarling provided some interesting evidence.

I don't consider them a classic 3rd party reseller. They are not in the business to sell phones, and often take a loss on such hardware. They sell service contracts for the cellular service itself. It's to be expected that the actual cell phone providers would sell more phones than anyone as most consumers purchase them via their cell provider, which in turn orders them from Apple, and either ships them directly to the end user, or the user can opt to pick them up at the cell provider store. I know as I've done it both ways.

Notice that the true 3rd party sellers are substantially less than apple (Best buy and whatnot) even though they outnumber Apple stores many thousands of times over. Also see the second link I posted regarding the friction between those same 3rd party resellers and Apple. A cell provider like AT&T or Verizon is not in the same class as Best Buy, and would not be 'shorted' on stock since the primary purpose of these phones is as a cell phone. These others however, or NOT in the business of selling sell phones. It's just a small part of whatever wares they peddle (TV's, CD's, various electronics, etc).
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post #116 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

... so i reset it and reactivated it on AT&T......does that show as a new activation for AT&T? Does AT&T then report it as a new device activation?

 

AT&T doesn't report just new device activations.   They count every device activation, new or old.

 

This is why device sales numbers never match up with activation numbers.  The latter includes hand me down and resold devices, which usually average a bit over 10% of total activations (but which can go another 5-10% higher during hot new model introductions, as people shed their old device to get a new one).

post #117 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I don't consider them a classic 3rd party reseller. 

The fact that you don't consider them 'classic' (whatever that means) does not change the fact that they are re-sellers (i.e., they buy from Apple and sell to their customers).

post #118 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The fact that you don't consider them 'classic' (whatever that means) does not change the fact that they are re-sellers (i.e., they buy from Apple and sell to their customers).

Hardly. If they were a classic reseller, they couldn't sell their stock at a loss by subsidizing the sale price of the phone like a cell provider does. A third party reseller doesn't do this. Folks like best buy get the items as a reduced cost and sell it for a profit. The cell providers get the buyer to directly pay for the device and they also subsidize the cost of the phone, which is sold at a loss, but they get a return on their investment for the actual service contract over X number of years. Third party resellers do this only when they can't move stock (much like they did when they couldn't sell all of those Apple tablet killers, and had to sell them at a loss to try and recoup their investment). Folks like best buy don't have the option of getting profit back by selling a cell contract for a phone.

They are not the same. A cell phone provider isn't in the business of selling phones. They sell service contracts. Any profit from phone sales is incidental.
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post #119 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

 

No, DED, I am well aware that Mountain Lion was only sold as a digital copy.  That's how I got my upgrade and why I advised my mom not to worry about her MBA lacking a CD drive.  My point was sarcastic.  Shipped means sold.

 

The hobbyist platform thing was absurd the first time you used it and still is.  The only hobbyists developing it are the devs making custom ROMs.  Anyway, as far as iOS taking ideas from Android and Windows, it absolutely did.  I hate to use the word "stealing" because that implies malicious intent, and I don't think that using others' ideas as a stepping stone to something of your own is malicious.  Rather it's a necessary part of progress.  These are some articles you might want to reference with regards to Apple's stepping stones:

 

http://www.infoworld.com/d/consumerization-of-it/yes-ios-7-copies-windows-phone-and-android-get-used-it-220644

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/06/apple_ios_7_will_borrowing_ideas_from_microsoft_help_apple_destroy_the_smartphone.html

 

http://www.eweek.com/mobile/apples-ios-7-buys-time-with-ideas-borrowed-from-other-mobile-platforms/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2013/06/11/an-open-letter-from-android-to-ios-7/

 

http://www.droid-life.com/2013/06/10/ios7-vs-android-a-quick-comparison-after-the-wwdc-keynote/

 

No it wasn't sarcasm, you just didn't think things through when you captured and pasted a keynote image into your rant.

 

As far as your linked articles go, not one of them delivers any substantial example of Apple looking to Android, WP8 or BB10 for "ideas"

 

The make absurd comments about iOS 7 looking like BB10 because Home screen app icons dropped their shadows. That's "copying" BB? 
 

Farhad Manjoo of Slate says "iOS 7 borrows many ideas from other companies’ touchscreen designs, especially Microsoft," but doesn't name a single one before he gets to the point where he said that last year, "I called Windows Phone the best designed mobile OS on the market."

He seems to think iOS 7 app switching came from WP8 via webOS, but he doesn't seem to know that Palm's webOS team came largely from Apple's iPhone group, and that its CoverFlow representation of apps originated with Apple (not that it matters; this isn't a patented concept). No word of the fact that Microsoft cloned every unique aspect of OS X as closely as possible in Windows Vista, including "new" 3D views that work just like OS X's Expose did. Somewhere along the line, Microsoft became the "source" of this stuff, and iOS 7 is taking it from Microsoft, despite the fact that iOS 7 looks nothing like WP8/Metro. That's some serious Flawgic.

 

What Android and WP8 fans should be more concerned about, given that both platforms quite obviously shifted from a BlackBerry pushbutton interface of a scaled down, windowing UI to the Home screen of windowless, full screen touch apps that Apple introduced five years ahead of them (in clear response to Apple's success) is the larger problem: neither platform has a cohesive fragment anywhere close to being the size of iOS, and now, they have even fewer exclusive features. They better get crackin on that if they want to be anything other than the last resort UI for phones third world countries.

post #120 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

No it wasn't sarcasm, you just didn't think things through when you captured and pasted a keynote image into your rant.

As far as your linked articles go, not one of them delivers any substantial example of Apple looking to Android, WP8 or BB10 for "ideas"

The make absurd comments about iOS 7 looking like BB10 because Home screen app icons dropped their shadows. That's "copying" BB? 

 
Farhad Manjoo of Slate says "iOS 7 borrows many ideas from other companies’ touchscreen designs, especially Microsoft," but doesn't name a single one before he gets to the point where he said that last year, "I called Windows Phone the best designed mobile OS on the market."


He seems to think iOS 7 app switching came from WP8 via webOS, but he doesn't seem to know that Palm's webOS team came largely from Apple's iPhone group, and that its CoverFlow representation of apps originated with Apple (not that it matters; this isn't a patented concept). No word of the fact that Microsoft cloned every unique aspect of OS X as closely as possible in Windows Vista, including "new" 3D views that work just like OS X's Expose did. Somewhere along the line, Microsoft became the "source" of this stuff, and iOS 7 is taking it from Microsoft, despite the fact that iOS 7 looks nothing like WP8/Metro. That's some serious Flawgic.

What Android and WP8 fans should be more concerned about, given that both platforms quite obviously shifted from a BlackBerry pushbutton interface of a scaled down, windowing UI to the Home screen of windowless, full screen touch apps that Apple introduced five years ahead of them (in clear response to Apple's success) is the larger problem: neither platform has a cohesive fragment anywhere close to being the size of iOS, and now, they have even fewer exclusive features. They better get crackin on that if they want to be anything other than the last resort UI for phones third world countries.

I can't prove what I knew or didn't know because only I know that. But since I know it and you don't, you should trust me on it.

After trying to break down these articles to favor your viewpoint, you went on to say that the other platforms now have fewer exclusive features. If those features were exclusive to other platforms and then Apple added them to iOS, making them no longer exclusive, it would seem to me that Apple borrowed those ideas.
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