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Microsoft undercuts Apple in education, selling Surface RT for $199 - Page 2

post #41 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Here's hoping there are a lot of folks out there in education like you. When I think of the potential of an iPad in education compared to what was available in my days teaching it almost makes me want to go back to teaching. A single penny wasted in education on Windows based crap is a crime.

I think what would be the nail in the coffin for Microsoft is if Apple offers iWork for the cloud free, if not free for everyone, free for educational institutions. If Apple can offer a free solution that works in the cloud, that also opens and writes to MS Office file formats Apple has a killer suite. iWork does everything 99% of what students and teachers need. My school was continuously waiting on an iOS version of MS Office. I think I'm just going to suggest they start using Pages, Numbers, and Keynote. I wish this iWork for the cloud thing came out sooner.

I really push for Apple products. I run the entire Apple system in my school, from determining if Apple products will suit the needs, to speccing them out, making sure they get ordered, unboxing them, inventorying them, setting them up, using Deploy Studio to get them imaged, and testing to make sure they're all setup properly. I also administer the Mac server with OS X Server 2.2 running on OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion. We currently have 4 Mac labs, 2 MacBook labs in the Distance Learning rooms (1 in HS, 1 in ES), 1 regular iMac computer lab, and were getting a new Mac lab in the STEM lab (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) when that is complete this summer...hopefully with brand new 27" iMacs, a 3D printer, a professional photo printer, and some professional scanners.

We also have 2 iPad carts, one for the HS and one for the ES, along with many for teachers in various departments.
Edited by macxpress - 6/18/13 at 9:46am

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post #42 of 90
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Redmond giant may be looking to clear inventory ahead of a refreshed version of the device, which is thought to have sold fewer than one million units in the ten months since its release.

 

Not to worry.  Revenue from legacy products (Windows + Office) will save the day.

 

 

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The new Windows builds have had a tough initial outing, though, with Windows 8 sales sputtering and Windows RT sales virtually nonexistent.
 

Oops.  Maybe reveue from Windows + Office won't save the day.

Windows 8 isn't boosting PC sales one bit.

Which is yet another reason for PC OEMs to hate Microsoft.

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post #43 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I pity the poor school administrator/IT person who's a sucker for this.

 

I can see seriously cash-strapped schools falling for this sad ruse....

 

Yeah, pretty sleazy of Microsoft to try to unload this garbage on school children.

post #44 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

Well, I guess my prediction they'd be discounting the Surface within a year didn't turn out to be off the mark...

 

Education can save a hundred or so with the Surface RT on the purchase, and then have all that money to spend on the support costs -- if they haven't learned their lessons from the last time they SAVED money with Microsoft.

Agree with this and like posts.    Maybe the Gates foundation should be put to task of fixing the fallout when this becomes a disaster for teachers,  administrators and most off all students.   IMO,    MS should not be looking to dump inferior tech on students or cash strapped school budgets.

post #45 of 90
This is pollution, pure and simple.

Microsoft is dumping their junk inventory into the education environment, which should be valued and protected as much or more than any other segment of our society. These are kids we're talking about, and teachers who have enough to deal with already, without having to wrestle with incompetent technology.

Contrasted with Apple, there's no comparison. Microsoft is being very cynical here. They ought to just recycle the devices, or give them to Bill and Melinda and see if they could come up with some program to justify the tablets' existence.
post #46 of 90
This is the exact policy Microsoft followed with Windows. Give huge discounts to schools and hide the financial losses in with the Windows/Office profits. Get kids used to Windows today so they'll use it tomorrow. MS has the cash to afford losses in profits now in exchange for greater profits later.

It's a technique that has been used by monopolists throughout history.
post #47 of 90
Mmmm...

Sometime, RSN, Turkey is supposed to award the bid for the Fatih Project -- starting with an initial 11 Million tablets for Elementary School, followed by 2 million per year.

http://www.invest.gov.tr/en-US/infocenter/news/Pages/200513-turkey-fatih-project-tender-process-start.aspx

And Ballmer has expressed willingness to do [almost] anything to be part of the awards (I can't locate the exact quote".

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-government-project-lures-tech-giants-microsoft.aspx?pageID=238&nid=41799


I think Sammy (and maybe others) was awarded a preliminary bid -- but that, apparently, didn't go well. So MS may try to give away their inferior solution...

Those first-graders are really going to love that Ribbon Menu!
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post #48 of 90
Kids teenage knows the big difference between iPad and surface they will only stomp Microsoft surface tab soon uprooting it away as the next generation gadget. Microsoft need to abandon the cut and paste policy for once and for all
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeejucm View Post

Kids teenage knows the big difference between iPad and surface they will only stomp Microsoft surface tab soon uprooting it away as the next generation gadget. Microsoft need to abandon the cut and paste policy for once and for all

Doesn't really matter if kids know the difference. What matters is if the people making the decisions to buy XYZ product know the difference. Even then, sometimes they see its cheaper to go that route even though it may cost them more in the long run for various reasons. Kids use what they're told to use. Its not like they'll throw a fit like a 2yr old. It also matters if the teacher wants to use the technology. A lot of time they're forced to in some way, shape, or form whether or not they want to.

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post #50 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post

As terrible as the surface is, I don't think it's fair to call it cheaply made. From all accounts the hardware is actually nice. It is the software that lets it down, which is ironic seeing as Microsoft is a software company.

If so, the tablet's failure illustrates what Jobs said, "Design is the way it works."

Microsoft has to start realizing this, but I don't think they will until Ballmer drops acid and goes to India to finish his education.

Apple is starting to talk about this more and more, with their recent emphasis on "services." Hardware is nothing if it doesn't fit into the big ecosystem of our lives.
post #51 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by facethefire View Post

If Microsoft really wants to differentiate from Apple then implement the file-system and other legacy windows features in metro. Give us all the power a PC has in metro and do away with the stupid desktop mode for heavens sake. Apple seems to have their philosophy but MS doesn't seem to have any clear vision at all. It keeps saying BS about surface being a real computer but I don't see how RT is better than iPad in anyway. Sure ,the OS is better in some ways like multitasking but that's it. Implement the file system in metro ,implement every desktop feature in metro and give us all the control METRO ! Then it might be able to stand up to the ipad instead of aping it.

Second thread I've seen your silly comments, but I'll take the bait in answering with a question:

Ever heard of Surface Pro? You know... the MS tablet that does all you're asking for above.... but still isn't selling?

Multitasking? Only something an MS masochist or Droid dolt would mention as a feature "better than the iPad". Besides, multitasking on the iPad works great already if you know how to do 3-finger swipes... and it will get even better this Fall with iOS7.

Besides, for the majority of people on sub 11" devices, they don't miss "side-by-side multitasking", quite obviously considering the sales records and usage of the iPad. Just sayin'....1tongue.gif

Given 'em away.... wow! Unbelievable how seriously catastrophic that truly is(!) I'm starting to feel sorry for the buggers......um....nah... not really. Ever since that Faux-Funeral for the iPhone, I think they can suck it for just punishment and chew on the bitter taste of their hubris a bit longer IMHO.
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post #52 of 90

I'm betting that there are school boards and principals dumb enough to buy these machines. 

post #53 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

If so, the tablet's failure illustrates what Jobs said, "Design is the way it works."

Microsoft has to start realizing this, but I don't think they will until Ballmer drops acid and goes to India to finish his education.

Apple is starting to talk about this more and more, with their recent emphasis on "services." Hardware is nothing if it doesn't fit into the big ecosystem of our lives.

I think you've hit it...Apple has the iOS ecosystem and Microsoft doesn't and never will. They're too late to the party and will never catch up no matter what they do in this space. They'd be better off trying to find the next big thing past a tablet and start working on it for a few years rather than following suit with everyone else trying to beat Apple at its own game.

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post #54 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

This is the first time that hardware is included in a discount program. Charity and Donation programs have always existed for phenomenal pricing for non-profits. Cynical me says they're unloading in whatever channel they can. Beware 1st gen buyers. I do believe this will improve and there is a use case for Windows in education obviously but I know that early Surface adopters will be burned.

Do you really believe that the surface will ever get to gen 2?

Ha! The Surface is being Sinofskyed!
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post #55 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm...

Sometime, RSN, Turkey is supposed to award the bid for the Fatih Project -- starting with an initial 11 Million tablets for Elementary School, followed by 2 million per year.

http://www.invest.gov.tr/en-US/infocenter/news/Pages/200513-turkey-fatih-project-tender-process-start.aspx

And Ballmer has expressed willingness to do [almost] anything to be part of the awards (I can't locate the exact quote".

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-government-project-lures-tech-giants-microsoft.aspx?pageID=238&nid=41799


I think Sammy (and maybe others) was awarded a preliminary bid -- but that, apparently, didn't go well. So MS may try to give away their inferior solution...

Those first-graders are really going to love that Ribbon Menu!

Not going to happen where I'm at. The kids starting school this Fall (Kindergarten) all have experience and learning tools, games, etc. on their iPads. My nephew started at 3, and just about his entire class in pre-school has access to iPads from their parents these days.

Considering the speed at which I've seen my nephew and his friends rip around on an iPad... may I venture to say that I think this "game" is all but over, and that very possibly those kids with early access to iPads, might just be the smartest at this age that I have ever seen!
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post #56 of 90
Microsoft makes a tablet?
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by facethefire View Post

If Microsoft really wants to differentiate from Apple then implement the file-system and other legacy windows features in metro. Give us all the power a PC has in metro and do away with the stupid desktop mode for heavens sake. Apple seems to have their philosophy but MS doesn't seem to have any clear vision at all. It keeps saying BS about surface being a real computer but I don't see how RT is better than iPad in anyway. Sure ,the OS is better in some ways like multitasking but that's it. Implement the file system in metro ,implement every desktop feature in metro and give us all the control METRO ! Then it might be able to stand up to the ipad instead of aping it.

Why?

 

does "Skate to where the puck will be...." mean anything to you...

 

if the 'real world' is moving away from file systems and legacy windows...  why should a 4th grader or a English major even care?  By the time they 'buy' their device, they'll be thrust into a world of 'app based storage' and cloud computing, and they'll have no skills to operate in the real world.

 

File systems are out the door.  As are Floppy disks, and PS/2 keyboards (or do you still have those too?;-)

 

Content Management (keyword based) is what the masses want and need.   Yes, there may be file systems underneath it all.

 

Give 'us' means "Give the 5% of the world who spent years making our lives align to WinTel a reason to migrate to metro"   

Now 5% of 7Billion is a lot, and it's a massive installed base when you navel gaze.... but 95% of 7Billion... That 19x more than 'a lot'

 

The problem is the other 95% are buying iOS and android.

post #58 of 90
BTW... this from 9to5Mac:

Team behind iPad App of the Year 2012 gets $15m backing for ‘Office suite of the future’

I also think the next "killer" office Suite will be in the Cloud... and probably iCloud at that. Some of the functionality that was shown during WWDC with iWork and a browser comes to mind.

Actually... MS has the right idea and foretold this event taking place. They just haven't been able to execute correctly now for years. Also, they're developing "scared and fearful" rather than from their very own convictions and internal knowledge of what's transpiring. Not good.

Other than certain business processes using MS Office, why is it that it needs to be taught in school anyway? It truthfully is specialty software, and probably needs to be relearned anyway at a job, depending on the specialty processes and workflows the company uses. IMO, not much different than electrical or machine engineering.

Oh... and then there's this from the DOJ trial why Office and Windows is not needed:
Quote:
Daring Fireball by John Gruber
Least Surprising Tidbit From Apple-DOJ E-Book Trial

Brian X. Chen, reporting for the NYT from the e-book price-fixing trial:

Both parties showed their evidence on a projector screen. Apple’s legal team used a MacBook to shuffle between evidence documents, stacking them side by side in split screens and zooming in on specific paragraphs.

In contrast, the Justice Department’s lawyers could show only one piece of evidence at a time. One video that Mr. Buterman played as evidence failed to produce the audio commentary needed to make his point..

Kids DO need to learn to be creative, but not necessarily how to "wing it" when your preso or computer "burns" ya...1smoking.gif
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 6/18/13 at 10:57am
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post #59 of 90
OK... I tried to fix the URL in the above post, but AI refuses to take, and instead truncates the URL.... hmmm!....1oyvey.gif
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post #60 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


I think you've hit it...Apple has the iOS ecosystem and Microsoft doesn't and never will. They're too late to the party and will never catch up no matter what they do in this space. They'd be better off trying to find the next big thing past a tablet and start working on it for a few years rather than following suit with everyone else trying to beat Apple at its own game.

 

iOS has a massive lead in apps, but you cannot say they don't have an ecosystem when they do.  Immature, yes.  But with a massive desktop user base and growing set of tablets (I remember a 7% last quarter figure), I'm not sure I'd write them out of the history books yet.

 

In the education market, which is what this article is about, Apple has the resources and clear dominance though which is why they are dumping into this market.

post #61 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

They aren't that bad (if you get one for free), but they certainly aren't worth paying for.  Your plan to use a Surface RT for Word might have a glitch however, in that the thing is so slow one can type faster than the processor can put words on the screen, which gives you a really weird "out of time" feeling when trying to use it.  It might be okay for kids to type on, but anyone who can touch type will be able to easily outpace the processor.  

 

To be fair, the iPad mini has this same problem to a lesser degree.  If you use Pages a lot and type fast, you can fairly easily move your fingers faster than the keyboard is able to register them.  For instance, it's easy to type short words like "the" so fast, that all that registers on the screen is "e".  Depending on memory conditions you can sometimes get off two or three words before the system realises you are typing. 

 

It also has a sort of quasi-memoryleak in that if you type a large block of text with Pages on iOS, the cursor and the typing will get slower and slower as the system memory fills up, eventually forcing you to back out and let the app save your work before continuing.  

 

This is all down to the very, very, very limited system memory on the iPad mini which should hopefully be fixed on the next version.  

 

 

The hardware itself is made quite well so if my only needs were those outlined, I would use one if it were given to me as a gift. I might even pay a hundred dollars for one.  I honestly think Microsoft has three problems. First, Apple has an established market in business, consumer, and education. Second, the Windows marketing is horrible. People used Windows because they thought they had to do so. Why use it for a device you want to have fun on? Further, if you think you are buying a Windows device, you might think you can actually run Windows apps. Yet, Microsoft calls all its Surface devices Windows devices. I honestly would have called the Mobile OS Metro. Alternatively, I would have tried to leverage the X Box 360 brand. Although, Sony looks like it might mount a comeback with the PS4 over the XBox One. Third, software. It is problematic when you have to pay developers to design for your ecosystem. Again it should have tried to tie the 360 into the enticement for developers. 

 

As for slow typing, I can see that being a minor problem on the iPad Mini. The processor is fast enough for what it needs to do most of the time, but it can get taxed sometimes. That is what you get when you are trying to bring a compelling product to market at a certain price point. Apple will likely have to up the processor in the next version to drive a Retina Display. iOS is supposed to have better memory management as well. 

post #62 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by realwarder View Post

iOS has a massive lead in apps, but you cannot say they don't have an ecosystem when they do.  Immature, yes.  But with a massive desktop user base and growing set of tablets (I remember a 7% last quarter figure), I'm not sure I'd write them out of the history books yet.

In the education market, which is what this article is about, Apple has the resources and clear dominance though which is why they are dumping into this market.

Microsoft does not have the ecosystem Apple does. This is why everyone else fails. Plain and simple...Microsoft is relying on running desktop apps on a tablet which is not working as you can see. Unless there's this new and amazing set of apps for Windows 8 then I seriously doubt Microsoft will ever be even remotely successful in the tablet space.

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post #63 of 90

Gee, what a bargain. An obsolete device for $200.

post #64 of 90
Hey now you can have a troublesome time clicking your keyboards and playing with blocks now, yay! Kidstoys for $200
post #65 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

Firesale anyone?

I think there will be no RT version by next year.

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GOA

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GOA

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post #66 of 90
They have that much inventory sitting in warehouses? Wonder how badly they overestimated demand. Hope not too many schools get suckered into getting this right before they release a drastically upgraded model. And you know it will be drastically upgraded because the current one is selling like hotcakes. Radioactive hotcakes, that is.
post #67 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

Microsoft undercuts Apple in education, selling pricing Surface RT at $199

LOL, that should have been the headline (strikethrough included)

post #68 of 90
There are 10,000 teachers going to a technology conference? Dude!
post #69 of 90

Nice!!! Now my son can will have a tablet to play Jet Pack and Tank Wars......just like I did in elementary school circa 1992. /s

post #70 of 90
Apple should give away 10001 iPads at the big educational event
post #71 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by realwarder View Post

 

iOS has a massive lead in apps, but you cannot say they don't have an ecosystem when they do.  Immature, yes.  But with a massive desktop user base and growing set of tablets (I remember a 7% last quarter figure), I'm not sure I'd write them out of the history books yet.

 

In the education market, which is what this article is about, Apple has the resources and clear dominance though which is why they are dumping into this market.

 

Microsoft has been very late in this game and still screw up them self with two Windows Phone false start and a third Windows environment completely incompatible with either desktop Windows and Windows Phone.   Windows RT is a farce. 

post #72 of 90
Funny story...
I reinstalled my Office for Mac software and it told me my license had been installed too many times. So I went to the Microsoft store right by my work. It was laughable. The store was run by incompetent computer nerds. I had a product question on a video game and I couldn't get the sales rep to answer my question. I'm not sure if it was a dude or a chick (we'll just call the person Paaattt). Pat was busy playing the x-box kinect and couldn't be bothered with my question for 5 mintues. Seriously....Unbelievable. I wasn't even angry. I walked away laughing at how Microsoft can even botch copying an Apple store.
post #73 of 90

and drug dealers....

post #74 of 90

Microsoft should do a promotion and give away an item along with the Surface RT.  You know, give away something people really want to help spark demand.  Like, maybe they could away a free iPad with every purchase.  Just a thought.

post #75 of 90
A bit off-topic but it's being reported that Android device maker Huawei is considering the purchase of Microsoft partner Nokia. If anything comes of it Microsoft's mobile plans could take a fairly heavy hit assuming Huawei isn't as enthusiatic about WinMo and they don't appear to be based on comments.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/ced47926-d80f-11e2-b4a4-00144feab7de.html#axzz2Wb2uAcgl
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post #76 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

So, for $249 you will still get a device for which there is no software, and nobody is really working on any. They could as well buy a PlayBook, I am sure BB would agree to $99.

Actually there are a lot of apps for education for instance https://www.teachercollection.com/teacher-collection-applications have an amazing collection of apps for the teacher and students. In fact education apps on Windows 8 are the fastest growing on the platform. The biggest advantage is the powerful and easy custom development applications available to teachers for them to make their own educational aids. Amazon carries a huge selection of textbooks and are compatible with the RT. I fully understand this is an Apple site and some bias over none Apple products is expected but the amount of negativity is just plain annoying. A school would be well served with a Surface RT.

 

 

http://www.windows8ineducation.co.uk/

http://www.informationweek.com/education/mobility/texas-school-district-picks-dell-windows/240155158

http://www.zdnet.com/au/qld-education-department-snaps-up-14000-acer-windows-8-tablets-7000016287/

http://www.edupad.com/itooch/educational-apps-windows-8/

http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_in_education/archive/2013/05/08/windows-8-wednesday-teachers-love-windows-8-for-education.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2013/Mar13/03-27PubSecWindowsPR.aspx


Edited by Relic - 6/18/13 at 2:46pm
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post #77 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbenitez View Post

I could give you a long list of my horror stories at an apple store where I asked a very simple question about pop3 on the mail client in osx and the guys head nearly exploded and he offered me a stupid round about way of saying I don't know and I don't get paid enough to find out. I ended up ordering my mac book air on amazon. P.S. Apple didn't invent retail and they have failed to please plenty of customers because they hire people who are not only incompetent, but rude. Love the hardware, the OS is passable, (still installed win 8 pro) the stores suck, and cloud service is better left to Amazon and Microsoft. There is a reason windows azure is kicking ass and taking names.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of bad service for any vendor you choose.

However, when you look at overall performance, Apple consistently comes up as #1 or, on rare occasions, close to #1 in customer service.
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post #78 of 90
Fire sale.

As in "pants on fire"
post #79 of 90
sorry - dupe
post #80 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcolley View Post

That's what school kids need, a sorry cheaply made rotting in the warehouse tablet. Let the young suffer with them. They should have given them away as a total loss they are.

You are quite wrong in saying the Surface is cheaply made. It is, in fact, very well made. Unfortunately, like the iPad, the capacitive screen means you can't handwrite well on the device. Apart from that, it's not a bad tablet except for the 16:9 aspect ratio which makes using it in portrait mode quite unpleasant.

$200 is a pretty good price though that price seems to not apply to individuals.

If they used a Wacom screen like the Samsung Note 8.0 or the Surface Pro then a lot of interesting possibilities would open up. The lack of handwriting capabilities is a major flaw with both the Surface RT and the iPad. Unless you plan on eliminating cursive writing I think any tablet that can't handle that should be kept away from kids. It's got to more offer than just poking and becoming typists.

Philip
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