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Rumor: TSMC inks deal to build 20nm 'A8' chips for Apple starting this year

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
A new report claims that Apple and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. have actually sealed the deal on a three-year agreement to supply A-series chips for future iPhones and iPads.

Chips
All of Apple's iDevice chips to date have been manufactured by Samsung in Austin, Tex.


Rumors of an agreement between the two companies have continued to crop up for years, but a report published on Monday by DigiTimes not only claims a deal has been made, but gets into specifics about the terms of the contract. In particular, TSMC and its integrated service partner Global UniChip are said to be planning to supply A-series chips built on 20-nanometer, 16-nanometer, and 10-nanometer process nodes.

The report claims TSMC will begin limited trial runs of manufacturing 20-nanometer "A8" chips as soon as this July, though production won't ramp up substantially until September. It's expected that devices utilizing the so-called "A8" chip would debut in 2014.

In addition, it was said that TSMC's phase 4, 5 and 6 facilities at its Fab 14 location in southern Taiwan will be solely dedicated to building A-series chips for Apple.

It should be noted that DigiTimes is notorious for reporting rumors from the technology industry supply chain that prove incorrect. However, the publication does on occasion relay accurate claims on Apple and other companies.

For years, reports have claimed that Apple was interested in forging a partnership with TSMC ??a move that would allow the iPhone maker to cut Samsung out of its supply chain. Currently, Samsung is the sole supplier of Apple's custom A-series chips, while also being Apple's chief rival.

Monday's report does align with a rumor that surfaced earlier this year, in April, which claimed that TSMC would build 20-nanometer chips for Apple's 2014 iPhone model. However, for years reports have claimed that TSMC was on the verge of joining Apple's supply chain.

There's even been speculation that Intel could begin manufacturing A-series chips as Apple looks to broaden its supplier base. Intel is currently the sole supplier of processors for the company's Mac lineup.

Apple's first custom A-series chip, the A4, debuted in the first-generation iPad in 2010, and launched in the iPhone 4 later that year, while the A5 was introduced in the iPad 2 and later came to the iPhone 4S in 2011. Since then, new iPad models have had enhanced chips with an "X" moniker, like the A5X in the third-generation iPad and A6X in the fourth-generation model, while the A6 chip debuted last year in the iPhone 5.
post #2 of 52
I hope Apple gets am ironclad agreement with TSMC that, if they want to supply components to Apple, they won't also compete with Apple with consumer products.

Apple has been f'd over during its entire history by backstabbing suppliers. Microsoft, Adobe, Motorola, Google and Samsung all got tremendous opportunties by working for Apple and then ended up showing their gratitude with betrayal and theft.

The Microsoft debacle was a complete botch on Apple Legal's part as they got away with stealing from Apple to make Windows. Things seem to be going fairly well with the prosecution of Samsung, although justice is not yet served. I'm saddened that Apple hasn't pursued Google with thermonuclear war, as was Steve Jobs' dying wish.

I just hope that Apple has established agreements to prevent TSMC from becoming the next Judas.
post #3 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

I hope Apple gets am ironclad agreement with TSMC that, if they want to supply components to Apple, they won't also compete with Apple with consumer products.

Apple has been f'd over during its entire history by backstabbing suppliers. Microsoft, Adobe, Motorola, Google and Samsung all got tremendous opportunties by working for Apple and then ended up showing their gratitude with betrayal and theft.

The Microsoft debacle was a complete botch on Apple Legal's part as they got away with stealing from Apple to make Windows. Things seem to be going fairly well with the prosecution of Samsung, although justice is not yet served. I'm saddened that Apple hasn't pursued Google with thermonuclear war, as was Steve Jobs' dying wish.

I just hope that Apple has established agreements to prevent TSMC from becoming the next Judas.

I thinkthe best way to compete with google for example is not by using courts, but by competing with them. Apple maps is an example. iRadio with ads is a good example. More services with iAds will hurt them more then lawsuits.
post #4 of 52
I am confuse on the cpus. The A6 are made on what kind of plants? Those 20, 10, 8 nanometers seems very low.

On diversification, Apple could also use AMD or Intel to have 2 suppliers.
post #5 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I am confuse on the cpus. The A6 are made on what kind of plants? Those 20, 10, 8 nanometers seems very low.

On diversification, Apple could also use AMD or Intel to have 2 suppliers.

The A6 and A6X are 32nm. Presumably the A7 will still be with Samsung, so these A8s are 2 generations away, hence the 20nm.

post #6 of 52

This is the best way to fight Samsung.  Not by suing them.. but by giving them less business.

 

Losing the Apple Ax series of processors has to mean billions of revenue gone from Samsung's bottom line.

post #7 of 52
Um, an agreement not to compete would not be looked at favorably from an antitrust point of view.
post #8 of 52

TSMC makes semiconductors, not finished products. So, it's unlikely they'd go head-to-head with Apple in the marketplace. They can, and will, produce semiconductors for Apple competitors and there is little Apple can do legally or practically to stop that.

post #9 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

I hope Apple gets am ironclad agreement with TSMC that, if they want to supply components to Apple, they won't also compete with Apple with consumer products.

Apple has been f'd over during its entire history by backstabbing suppliers. Microsoft, Adobe, Motorola, Google and Samsung all got tremendous opportunties by working for Apple and then ended up showing their gratitude with betrayal and theft.

The Microsoft debacle was a complete botch on Apple Legal's part as they got away with stealing from Apple to make Windows. Things seem to be going fairly well with the prosecution of Samsung, although justice is not yet served. I'm saddened that Apple hasn't pursued Google with thermonuclear war, as was Steve Jobs' dying wish.

I just hope that Apple has established agreements to prevent TSMC from becoming the next Judas.

TSMC doesn't make anything other than semiconductor components, solid state lighting components and solar cells.  They aren't a finished products mfg like Samscum.   

 

Yeah, everyone knows that the companies mentioned have kind of screwed Apple one way or another, but I think it has to be that Apple wasn't big enough to warrant these companies to generate enough business without doing business with others and Apple has come up with great products that starts trends.

 

I hope Apple is able to step up the product development since they got rid of Forstall on the iOS side and now if they can eliminate the need to rely on Samscum for critical components.

post #10 of 52
That then implies that the A7 is an A6 with a tweaked clock speed. It is hard to envisage any development taking place in parallel.
post #11 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I am confuse on the cpus. The A6 are made on what kind of plants? Those 20, 10, 8 nanometers seems very low.

On diversification, Apple could also use AMD or Intel to have 2 suppliers.

AMD doesn't have the foundries to do it, they rely on IBM to mfg parts.

 

I think Apple will use Intel and they might even be able to use IBM if need be.

 

It's too bad Apple doesn't build their own plants to do it themselves, but they would have to have ultimately at least 3 or 4 plants, which would take a long time to build.  They do have the money to do it.  I think each plant is probably about $3 to $5 BIllion depending on the size.  One or two for production while the other plants are in a state of being built to handle the next gen technology and then flip flopping opening and renovating plants as time goes on.   Owning semiconductor plants is NOT cheap, plus having the knowhow and the right equipment to even make these types of products.

 

It would be great if Sharp could do all of their panel needs for their entire product line, since both LG and Samscum make competing products with Apple.

 

I just wish the respective governments of these component/finished product companies split them up somehow so they aren't in conflict of interest. Making components for customers and then making finished goods that compete with their component customers is a VERY unethical business model.

post #12 of 52
>>Um, an agreement not to compete would not be looked at favorably from an antitrust point of view.

Non-compete and exclusivity clauses are pretty standard in business contracts. It's not like Apple is asking TSMC to exit a business it is already in, just not to start such a unit.

Yes, TSMC can continue to make components for other companies, but if Apple shares proprietary chip designs with them, they can insist that they are the only customers.
post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
I thinkthe best way to compete with google for example is not by using courts,

 

Apple didn't have a choice:  Google sued Apple first, via its motorola division for "violating" FRAND patents it had never given Apple a chance to license.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyDogHasFleas View Post

Um, an agreement not to compete would not be looked at favorably from an antitrust point of view.

Such anti-compete agreements are very common in industry.  So, I think your speculation that there is some anti-trust angle here is unfounded.  But even if there were, Taiwan is another country over which the US government does not have jurisdiction.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post
That then implies that the A7 is an A6 with a tweaked clock speed. It is hard to envisage any development taking place in parallel.

I think you're underestimating what it takes to make a CPU.  You can do a new iPhone each year without doing it in parallel (and yet, they do still do iPhone designs in parallel- the 2014 iPhone model is already under development)

 

CPUs take 2-5 years to produce, and you pretty much have to do them in parallel.  Apple probably has 4-6 different CPU designs in various stages.  This is why Apple has been slow to move to its own completely Apple designed CPUs and worked on a custom, hand laid out core as the first complete Apple design (which they can then use in future designs while working on other aspects at a more fine detail.)

 

I think assuming it is merely a tweaked clock speed is in error.  I'm not aware of any CPU generations in the A series that don't have more than tweaked clock speeds.  One of the things Apple is fond of doing-- but does not announce publicaly-- is the inclusion of custom co-processors.  This is a competitive advantage that they don't talk about, but there's reason to believe there are custom CPUs for image processing, video processing, voice analysis (For SIRI) video compression/decompression, etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
I think Apple will use Intel and they might even be able to use IBM if need be.

 

It's too bad Apple doesn't build their own plants to do it themselves, but they would have to have ultimately at least 3 or 4 plants, which would take a long time to build.  They do have the money to do it.  I think each plant is probably about $3 to $5 BIllion depending on the size. 

 

I think a partnership with intel makes a lot of sense.  Intel are the process experts, would allow apple to leapfrog the industry if they could use intels latest processes.... the problem is, intel wants to be the company that sells its own designs at a high markup, not a foundry for rent at a low markup.

 

Apple certainly has the money to build a foundry-- I think they tend to be closer to $10B each these days but Apple can afford that.

 

The problem is, Apple doesn't have the process engineers and expertise to run a foundry.  They could build that as well, but it would take a lot of time.   You can't just go from new-foundry to producing AX chips in volume for the mobile device market.  It would kinda be like IBM- wealthy and technically capable-- starting a super-sonic jet program.  IBM's engineers know software so tehy'd have that part covered, but they don't have the decades of experience and patents and the tens of thousands of employees with expertise in jet engine design, airframes, etc.

 

Personally, I think Apple should just buy intel outright!

post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

I hope Apple gets am ironclad agreement with TSMC that, if they want to supply components to Apple, they won't also compete with Apple with consumer products.

Apple has been f'd over during its entire history by backstabbing suppliers. Microsoft, Adobe, Motorola, Google and Samsung all got tremendous opportunties by working for Apple and then ended up showing their gratitude with betrayal and theft.

The Microsoft debacle was a complete botch on Apple Legal's part as they got away with stealing from Apple to make Windows. Things seem to be going fairly well with the prosecution of Samsung, although justice is not yet served. I'm saddened that Apple hasn't pursued Google with thermonuclear war, as was Steve Jobs' dying wish.

I just hope that Apple has established agreements to prevent TSMC from becoming the next Judas.

My exact sentiments. Adobe should have changed their name to Judas Software back in the early 90's.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

...I'm saddened that Apple hasn't pursued Google with thermonuclear war, as was Steve Jobs' dying wish.

 

I hope that Apple someday takes a chunk of Google's search business. That would be way better than a patent infringement case.  Beat them up in the market.

To do that, Apple would need to revolutionize search, which I think they can do using the iOS platform.  I have a few ideas how to do it....

post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

It's too bad Apple doesn't build their own plants to do it themselves, ...

 

That would be a terrible thing to do.  A good business emerges from a group of people with experience, knowledge, and talent.  Money can't buy everything.  Microsoft is a good example of how throwing good money after bad doesn't help.  The only reason you think Apple is competent to start a fab is because Apple doesn't do things that it doesn't know how to do and so you haven't seen them fail. 

I suppose they could buy an existing business, but what would be the point of that?

post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

It's too bad Apple doesn't build their own plants to do it themselves, but they would have to have ultimately at least 3 or 4 plants, which would take a long time to build.  They do have the money to do it.  I think each plant is probably about $3 to $5 BIllion depending on the size.  One or two for production while the other plants are in a state of being built to handle the next gen technology and then flip flopping opening and renovating plants as time goes on.   Owning semiconductor plants is NOT cheap, plus having the knowhow and the right equipment to even make these types of products.

The problem is that designing your own chips isn't cheap, and the only way to recoup your investment is to subsidise the cost over a very large install base (unfortunately, even larger than the current combined sales of IOS devices every year). Not to mention having to hire all those engineers, plus reinventing the wheel a lot for what is arguably a fairly limited benefit. This is why the industry is dominated by a few processor companies. The barriers to entry is simply too high.

 

It would be like the whole maps saga all over again, and with way higher stakes (the fallout from a problematic chip design in a phone would be way more serious than from a crappy maps app). 

 

That said, I believe there will eventually come a time when Apple must decide to either manufacture its own chips in-house, or buying them wholesale from the dominant manufacturer on the market. Given how Apple has been burned by Samsung, I don't blame them for at least entertaining such an option.

 

As for Google, I think Apple feels that the best way to fight back would be to hit them where it hurts - their ad revenue. After all, Google reportedly earns way more on IOS than its own Android platform (ironic when you consider the market share). Apple is systematically removing all traces of Google's services from IOS (first with Maps, followed by youtube, now on Siri, and I think it is only a matter of time before they use Yahoo as default search option in Safari, not to mention all the services integrated into IOS can be construed as promoting alternatives to Google's own services). 

 

Begun the ecosystem wars have. :D

post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

The problem is that designing your own chips isn't cheap, and the only way to recoup your investment is to subsidise the cost over a very large install base (unfortunately, even larger than the current combined sales of IOS devices every year). Not to mention having to hire all those engineers, plus reinventing the wheel a lot for what is arguably a fairly limited benefit. This is why the industry is dominated by a few processor companies. The barriers to entry is simply too high.

It would be like the whole maps saga all over again, and with way higher stakes (the fallout from a problematic chip design in a phone would be way more serious than from a crappy maps app). 

That said, I believe there will eventually come a time when Apple must decide to either manufacture its own chips in-house, or buying them wholesale from the dominant manufacturer on the market. Given how Apple has been burned by Samsung, I don't blame them for at least entertaining such an option.

As for Google, I think Apple feels that the best way to fight back would be to hit them where it hurts - their ad revenue. After all, Google reportedly earns way more on IOS than its own Android platform (ironic when you consider the market share). Apple is systematically removing all traces of Google's services from IOS (first with Maps, followed by youtube, now on Siri, and I think it is only a matter of time before they use Yahoo as default search option in Safari, not to mention all the services integrated into IOS can be construed as promoting alternatives to Google's own services). 

Begun the ecosystem wars have. 1biggrin.gif

Marginalizing Google on all Apple devises is definitely a good move I agree. It has been much discussed I know but I keep wondering if Apple might do well to just buy Yahoo.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Marginalizing Google on all Apple devises is definitely a good move I agree. It has been much discussed I know but I keep wondering if Apple might do well to just buy Yahoo.

Yeah, but a python swallowing a pig is a terrible thing to watch, and it goes on for a long time. : )
post #20 of 52
Every day since 2 weeks now I read every time good news about Apple on this website.
And every day, with almost no exception, I see the price of AAPL stock go down...today 12 points !

I'm seriously in doubt about the future of Apple, looking at their WWDC conference I'm no longer confident that they have the "touch" that Steve had in his time.

I wonder if you guys feel the same way,,,,
post #21 of 52

Apple should NOT go with Intel as they will have the same issue as they have with Samsung. You don't want Intel to have your latest designs that they can then easily put into their own mobile chips. 

 

Owning their own fab could prove to be a great investment. Competitors would know nothing about your product until release. Any profit made by Samsung currently would be absorbed by Apple. This also answers the cost of the fab concern, as if Samsung can produce the Ax chip at a profit then Apple could cut the middleman out completely. 

 

There is the question of engineers, but I'm sure with Apple's reputation they could easy hire who they needed. Perhaps they will move to TSMC in the short term. Perhaps they move to TSMC, like them so much, that they buy heavily into them. 

 

One of the bigger advantages Apple has moving forward is placing tech into their devices that others can't get. Chips that are highly customized to Apple's needs that also have unique tech, could easily put others behind, not just in tech offered, but price they can offer it. As mentioned above, incorporating different processors onto one core also saves space and energy, which is something competition would not be able to match quickly. As mentioned before, and above, having dedicated cores for processes such as Siri really could give huge advantages. 

 

This is what I am most excited about from Apple. The ability to leapfrog everyone on technology they simply just can't get, putting Apple 2-3 years ahead in those ares. This of course won't come until Apple moves from Samsung. 

post #22 of 52
@ElFig2012, unfortunately, you are not alone . The problem is that Apple can't talk about its future, other than to say, "we have great things coming later this year and in 2014."

You don't believe Tim Cook? That could be a mistake. Worrying about Apple's future leads to premature dementia, as many posters here demonstrate.

For example, Apple is probably in the process of developing the production of a revolutionary display technology that will change everything once again, like with the development of the first unibody laptops, or the first phones with usable touch screens. You cannot find out much of anything about this because they are keeping it, guess what, a secret!

You have to use imagination and maintain patience in the absence of real information about Apple's future. You are not alone in not having these at your disposal or even on not realizing that you don't have them. They're mental resources that have been marginalizd by the media "climate" over the last generation or so.

You guys should get together and form a support group to develop imagination and patience together. I would nominate a certain poster here from Montreal as your first leader.
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFig2012 View Post

And every day, with almost no exception, I see the price of AAPL stock go down...today 12 points !

Who cares?
Quote:
I'm seriously in doubt about the future of Apple

Why do you think the stock price has anything to do with success?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Who cares?
Why do you think the stock price has anything to do with success?

 

The reasons of the drop are very worrysome imo

 

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Apple+(AAPL)+Morale+Low,+Employees+Consider+Jumping+Ship/8442748.html

 

And I care, I still do own Apple options leaps.

post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

The reasons of the drop are very worrisome imo

Ludicrous nonsense. Did you read the link? ""Employees" are viewing lower stocks as a bad future." You're using people believing the same thing that you believe to justify your beliefs! 1oyvey.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Ludicrous nonsense. Did you read the link? ""Employees" are viewing lower stocks as a bad future." You're using people believing the same thing that you believe to justify your beliefs! 1oyvey.gif

 

It worries me because employes know whats going on to some extend inside the company. Employes moving away is never good. 

Well I still owns leaps prior to product cycles, so I am hoping Apple will be able to stop the bleeding at some point. But my hopes are pretty low. If Apple really does what the fanboys here expects, which is just an iPhone 5s, no TV, no game console, I think Apple EPS will continu to go down. 

 

Seriously, I don't see how people are going to upgrade to a same form factor iPhone 5s. I think the sales are going to be horrible on that device and its apple core business. You can't charge a premium and badly lag the market on innovation.

 

If they dont come up with a complete set of integrated hardware/solfware that integrate with the TV this year, I see no reasons for Apple to gain new customers. The only way to increase current product sales is EU,China and India and its not going to happen without a lower cost NEW phone. There is a lot of things Apple could do, problem is Apple is not doing any of them... well so far.


Edited by herbapou - 6/24/13 at 9:40am
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

The reasons of the drop are very worrysome imo

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Apple+(AAPL)+Morale+Low,+Employees+Consider+Jumping+Ship/8442748.html

And I care, I still do own Apple options leaps.

Garbage publication. But I have to wonder: where is the buy-back money? This could get political fast and even TC's position could be in danger if he allows the market to continue abusing the stocks.
post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

This is the best way to fight Samsung.  Not by suing them.. but by giving them less business.

Losing the Apple Ax series of processors has to mean billions of revenue gone from Samsung's bottom line.

Furthermore, recruiting new customers may not be possible for Samsung as any objective person must conclude that Samsung may not have acted ethically in business dealings with Apple. Additionally, Apple and Samsung have a virtual stranglehold on consumer electronics at the moment so there just aren't many customers with the scale of business Apple requires (for processors). Most of the components of Apple products are already assembled by TSMC including Broadcom and Qualcomm which are arguably the most significant components aside from the processors.

Notably, very few components of the Apple iPhone 5 are manufactured by Samsung.
post #29 of 52

The Street Insider has a long history of spewing negative nonsense about Apple, none of which ever turns out to be true.  It's "pump and dump" for short sellers.

 

If you believe in Apple, then hold the stock over 5 or 10 years.  Anything less than that and you're subjecting yourself to the randomness of the market and macroeconomic forces. 

 

If you don't believe in Apple to hold a stock like that, then don't bother with the stock at all.  Just go find something you do believe in.

 

And when I say "believe in" I mean, have you read the annual report? Have you studied the companie's history?  Have you worked out the net present value of future growth in the stock as compared to a risk free alternative? 

 

The stock market isn't for gambling, it's for people who will take at least those basic steps.

post #30 of 52

Apple is designing their own chips.  People on this thread don't seem to realize that.  They designed their own core, from scratch.  They have a master ARM license which means they can do whatever they want with the ARM architecture.  Apple designed this core and they designed an SOC with off the shelf components around it and Samsung manufactures it.

 

There is little risk of Samsung making this core and selling it to others because it would be easy for Apple to find out and samsung would lose that court case really quick-- and billions of dollars.  It would be open and shut. 

 

Just because you have a copy of Microsoft's compiled source code when you install windows, doesn't mean you can go into the competing-with-microsoft business. 

 

Thus I think intel and Samsung are fairly different.  Intel doesn't make phones and isn't likely to do so. 

 

Apple has the expertise to design chips and they spent much of the last decade building that up. 

 

Making a foundry requires a different set of expertise-- process expertise.  That's more expensive to build up, and less needed, because there are off the shelf foundries youcan use-- namely TSMC. 

 

Many companies, including AMD, don't have their own foundries... it's generally more efficient to outsource manufacturing (just as it is for assmbly of the iPhone, etc, which Apple gives to foxxconn.) 

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Furthermore, recruiting new customers may not be possible for Samsung as any objective person must conclude that Samsung may not have acted ethically in business dealings with Apple. Additionally, Apple and Samsung have a virtual stranglehold on consumer electronics at the moment so there just aren't many customers with the scale of business Apple requires (for processors). Most of the components of Apple products are already assembled by TSMC including Broadcom and Qualcomm which are arguably the most significant components aside from the processors.

Notably, very few components of the Apple iPhone 5 are manufactured by Samsung.

I'd like to see links to articles and data 'proving' this to be true.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

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post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFig2012 View Post

Every day since 2 weeks now I read every time good news about Apple on this website.
And every day, with almost no exception, I see the price of AAPL stock go down...today 12 points !

I'm seriously in doubt about the future of Apple, looking at their WWDC conference I'm no longer confident that they have the "touch" that Steve had in his time.

I wonder if you guys feel the same way,,,,

I understand the concern, however, Apple entered the mobile market at the right time and place. Every year the expanded and wowed and the stock market responded accordingly.  The market is now a rats nest of competitors and products. Just the fact that Apple still makes quality equipment with a very loyal base is impressive.  There is only so much growth left out there. This is a marathon, not a sprint and Apple is well positioned to maintain a healthy pace as others sprint ahead and fall behind. 

post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Apple should NOT go with Intel as they will have the same issue as they have with Samsung. You don't want Intel to have your latest designs that they can then easily put into their own mobile chips. 

Why not?

 

The Macbook Air collaboration payed great dividends for Apple. That exclusivity on Ultrabooks chipsets meant interest had waned far too much by the time the Windblow ultrabooks appeared.

 

A move to x86 for the iPad was entirely logical and could yet still happen.

post #34 of 52

Three years later, DigiTimes still insists Apple will ditch Samsung for TSMC

http://************/2013/06/24/three-years-later-digitimes-still-insists-apple-will-ditch-samsung-for-tsmc/

 

EDIT: Seems the local cheiftans don't lilke competition - the system here replaced the domain in the link above with asterrisks.  The domain is 9 to 5 mac (dot) com.

post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

Why not?

 

The Macbook Air collaboration payed great dividends for Apple. That exclusivity on Ultrabooks chipsets meant interest had waned far too much by the time the Windblow ultrabooks appeared.

 

A move to x86 for the iPad was entirely logical and could yet still happen.

 

Because Intel would then have early access to Apple tech and could then use it in their chips that get sold to competitors. 

 

iOS on x86 is a horrible idea. 


Edited by Richard Getz - 6/24/13 at 2:16pm
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFig2012 View Post

Every day since 2 weeks now I read every time good news about Apple on this website.
And every day, with almost no exception, I see the price of AAPL stock go down...today 12 points !

I'm seriously in doubt about the future of Apple, looking at their WWDC conference I'm no longer confident that they have the "touch" that Steve had in his time.

I wonder if you guys feel the same way,,,,

No. I worry about much more important economic and social issues than how Apple is supposedly failing without Steve.
You might want to seek help for your "concern for Apple's future" addiction. It's not healthy.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

That then implies that the A7 is an A6 with a tweaked clock speed. It is hard to envisage any development taking place in parallel.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. The thing is this, to choose a future semiconductor partner you have too gain experience with their tools and likely even build some prototypes. Apple is in a different position here than most companies, they really can't afford to not investigate every possible supplier. Even if they are looking at other suppliers they would not stop development work based on the technology of other suppliers. The risk of getting caught with ones pants down is too great.
post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFig2012 View Post

Every day since 2 weeks now I read every time good news about Apple on this website.
And every day, with almost no exception, I see the price of AAPL stock go down...today 12 points !
In the end the stock market has little to do with Apples feasibility as a company. Apples high profile make it an excellent platform for market manipulation. You can see this almost daily with baseless speculation, general bad mouthing and so forth on various financial forums.
Quote:
I'm seriously in doubt about the future of Apple, looking at their WWDC conference I'm no longer confident that they have the "touch" that Steve had in his time.
If that is what you came away with you haven't really looked at what happened at WWDC. WWDC is all about developers and in that respect they got introduced to massive refactoring a of both Mac OS and iOS. No major revision to an OS is perfect for everybody but in regards to WWDC few developers are complaining and many are extremely happy. Many long standing issues are being addressed while at the same time strong revisions to the OS's are taking place.
Quote:
I wonder if you guys feel the same way,,,,

Not a chance! A rational mind would see this WWDC as one of the best in a very long time. Lots of new technologies introduced which vastly improve both OS platforms. WWDC was exactly what it was meant to be.
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

The reasons of the drop are very worrysome imo
You have to accept that the high prices of previous years where the result of speculation not intrinsic value. Apple is at a good rational price right now.
Quote:

And I care, I still do own Apple options leaps.
I clipped that link to avoid posting complete crap. This is a hack job aimed at further stock price manipulation that we have seen over the last couple of years. Responsible reporting does not rely upon third and fourth party rumors.

In fact I'd go so far as to say if you have employees that are worried about stock price you have the wrong employees in the first place. It is far better for such employees to leave the company than to behave in a way that isn't in the best interest of the company.
post #40 of 52
Your reasoning is completely screwed up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

It worries me because employes know whats going on to some extend inside the company. Employes moving away is never good. 
If you have employees leaving due to a companies stock price that is in fact a good thing. It is the wrong motivation to have in an employee. Beyond that we have seen nothing to back up the claim that their is a mass exodus at Apple. If anything they have been attracting some rather strong talent this year. Facts seem to oppose the hack job reporting you are using to justify your position.
Quote:
Well I still owns leaps prior to product cycles, so I am hoping Apple will be able to stop the bleeding at some point. But my hopes are pretty low. If Apple really does what the fanboys here expects, which is just an iPhone 5s, no TV, no game console, I think Apple EPS will continu to go down. 
iPhone 5S will be a hit, that is almost a given. As for a game console, since when have game consoles contributed to any companies bottom line. Apple already sells a multifunction device in iPad that is far better than many of the game consoles out there. Likewise for a TV which isn't exactly a lucrative market in its current form. A TV highlights Apples different approach to changing industries, Apple won't sell a TV until there is an infrastructure in place to support it.
Quote:
Seriously, I don't see how people are going to upgrade to a same form factor iPhone 5s. I think the sales are going to be horrible on that device and its apple core business. You can't charge a premium and badly lag the market on innovation.
You can't see that screen size has nothing to do with innovation? If you look at my posts over time you will see that I'm a proponent of Apple selling different sizes iPhones. That isn't innovation though, in fact it is no more innovation than a company selling different sized socks.
Quote:
If they dont come up with a complete set of integrated hardware/solfware that integrate with the TV this year, I see no reasons for Apple to gain new customers.
Apple could survive for centuries without a "TV" product if they wanted too.
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The only way to increase current product sales is EU,China and India and its not going to happen without a lower cost NEW phone.
Seriously you call yourself an investor but yet you can't write a rational paragraph. What does a lower cost iPhone have to do with an Apple TV!
Quote:
There is a lot of things Apple could do, problem is Apple is not doing any of them... well so far.
Frankly you are out of touch, Apple is laying the ground work for future products, you can see this in the various WWDC videos. Your problem is that you expect a market shaking product every year. That has never happened with Apple, nor any other company for that matter so why the unreasonable expectations?

Frankly all this negativity is beyond all reason. Apple has breezed through one of the most significant downturns in the computer industry while knocking the crap out of the cell phone market. That sonny is a sign of a well managed company with a great product lineup.
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