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Chinese accessory maker claims to have 'permanently cracked' Apple's Lightning authentication - Page 2

post #41 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Hold it. First let's agree on what "the problem" is. To me, the problem is that Apple prices their Lightning accessories at $20-$30. That means when I got a new iPhone that I didn't exactly pay bottom dollar for, I also had to go pay $100 for new cables. If these Chinese companies can sell functionally-equivalent cables for half what Apple is selling them for and still make a profit, then Apple's profiteering is "the problem." Your local UPS franchisee is a symptom, not part of "the problem."

Part of that "profiteering" helps ensure that cables are up to stuff, and don't feel like they're going to melt or start a fire, like some cheap cables I've seen do. I mean, you really want to potentially fry your "not bottom-dollar" device because you're cheap?

Another part of it goes to recouping R&D which is expensive.
post #42 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

How exactly would current iPhones and iPads be expected to authenticate cables if they changed the standard? 

Well to be fair I would be surprised if Apple did not build in some additional functionality that has not been revealed yet for just such a situation. Another aspect to consider is that there may be some signature of the reverse engineered chip that could be recognized. Neither case can be entirely ruled out.

 

If Apple is secretly prepared to add additional authentication to the software they will perhaps let the counterfeiters build thousands of cables before they quietly disable them. It would serve the cheaters right to waste all their capital and resources building worthless cheap knock offs.

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post #43 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Well, it's China after all.  Like they even remotely care about IP.

Oh they care all right, but only if it's their IP being stolen. They also care about the trademarks that were already sold, then the bankrupt company wanted to extort a ridiculous amount of money for just a product name they didn't own anymore.

post #44 of 90

I'm thinking they could engineer a superior cable -- safer and better than the Apple product for 1/10 the price.  And still make a profit margin over 100%.

 

I have some counterfeit iDevice cables.  You can tell they are fake because -- literally, no troll -- their quality is superior to the Apple cables that DID fray btw.  As for 'safety' of the Apple cables?  Shit, that is why I ordered more cables -- it wasn't because the Apple product was intact.  It was borked.

 

Maybe the phrase "Kool-Aid drinkers" is out of date.  Update to "cable buyers?"


Edited by bwik - 6/24/13 at 8:07pm
post #45 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I'm thinking they could engineer a superior cable -- safer and better than the Apple product for 1/10 the price.  And still make a profit margin over 100%.

I have some counterfeit iDevice cables.  You can tell they are fake because -- literally, no troll -- their quality is superior to the Apple cables that DID fray btw.  As for 'safety' of the Apple cables?  Shit, that is why I ordered more cables -- it wasn't because the Apple product was intact.  It was borked.

Maybe the phrase "Kool-Aid drinkers" is out of date.  Update to "cable buyers?"

Lol.

You go keep buying your Chinese off-brand stuff that's "better".
post #46 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Hey we stop slaughtering the natives years ago.

Part of the problem is that the Chinese are not learning from the mistakes made by the US. They don't teach US history in China, hence they are prone to repeat the same mistakes the US made during their evolution to a modern civilized society. They envy the US but know nothing of what the US went through to get where they are today.

 

We have to wait until the Chinese become obese, buy hamburgers and large SUVs which they double park outside of a boutiques and then drive over the speed limit to their tax consultant to cheat on their taxes. Until then we can't reason with them.

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post #47 of 90
I have bought 3-4 already and they all dead after few weeks... its not about cracking or not. They are cheap but they are crap! I end up buying one from Apple.
post #48 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Hold it. First let's agree on what "the problem" is. To me, the problem is that Apple prices their Lightning accessories at $20-$30. That means when I got a new iPhone that I didn't exactly pay bottom dollar for, I also had to go pay $100 for new cables. If these Chinese companies can sell functionally-equivalent cables for half what Apple is selling them for and still make a profit, then Apple's profiteering is "the problem." Your local UPS franchisee is a symptom, not part of "the problem."
This is Apple responding to the blatant copying of their products where the legal system fails. It's interesting how now everything looks like a MacBook Air, MBPro,
Cables, packaging,commercials,iMac,etc. Remember the outcry because Mac batteries were not replaceable and how stupid that was. Now they are removing ports,batteries, DVD drive, increasing resolution. How long before Samsung duplicates the new cylindrical Mac Pro? I know that was the natural progression of design. Please keep buying your $7 cable, which is most likely manufactured by a Chinese factory of unspeakable conditions. "No, I got the whole movie just released for free off the Internet" " Why should I pay if I can get cheaper somewhere else."
Edited by Metrix - 6/25/13 at 12:39am
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think it is healthy to make such broad generalizations about people's ethnicity. If the US did not have such a highly developed judicial system, Americans would still be wearing six shooters, murdering, robbing, slaughtering native people and decimating the natural environment just like they did in the wild west. Not to mention the history of human trafficking and enslavement of Africans. One should take in to consideration that the US is a couple centuries ahead of many other cultures with regard to modern civilization and industrialization.

Kudos. Respect. Voice of reason.

post #50 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop View Post

I have bought 3-4 already and they all dead after few weeks... its not about cracking or not. They are cheap but they are crap! I end up buying one from Apple.

All dead after few weeks? So that's what "permanently cracked" means. Heh ...

post #51 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


Lol.

You go keep buying your Chinese off-brand stuff that's "better".

 

WE will. I too, have several Chinese iPod cables and he's right; they aren't coming apart at the connectors like the Apple ones are. 

 

So I'm unhesitatingly off to buy some iPhone 5 accessories that don't cost an arm and a leg. (And, BTW, that come in multiple colors.)

post #52 of 90

Perhaps these Asian nations learned all about stealing from other nations who stole their land, their produce, their resources and even their people.

post #53 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

 

WE will. I too, have several Chinese iPod cables and he's right; they aren't coming apart at the connectors like the Apple ones are. 

 

So I'm unhesitatingly off to buy some iPhone 5 accessories that don't cost an arm and a leg. (And, BTW, that come in multiple colors.)

I have 5 lightning cables I bought from Amazon....for the price of ONE cable from Apple. The 5 work great....nothing wrong with them and they are used everyday in my house for the past few months.

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post #54 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

What is it about Asia that makes that part of the world want to rip off technologies developed by American companies? Seriously, this crap needs to stop. Don't Asians learn personal responsibility growing up? Don't they understand the concept of stealing? Or do they just think they are entitled to everything the world creates without paying for those creations?

It's my understanding that Chinese (and to some part, Korean, and Japanese) culture is to iterate, not innovate. More or less be a "better apprentice" and surpass the master. IP law (particularly patents) found in American and European prohibit being the "apprentice" in the first place. This is why China only allows foreigners to bid on their national projects if they're partnered with a domestic (apprentice) company and thus that company basically gets a free licence to copy the IP.

When it comes to luxury devices (Apple) and fashion (eg Louis Vuitton, Tiffany) you see the other end of the spectrum where Chinese know the value of the brand name and rush out to produce unlicensed copies of the products AND put that brand on products that that brand would never make (Apple stoves, LV branded towels, etc)

The funny thing is, in the case of the iPhone and iPod, Chinese knockoffs are unable to copy the functionality, and certainly make no improvement over an authentic device, so the only people who are fooled by these are those buying them off eBay and Amazon. With fashion, it's a lot harder to tell because a real bag and a fake bag are functionally the same. Fakes are usually made with plastic or PU leather.

The "West" is really the outlier when it comes to acceptance of counterfeit products. If people here weren't willing to buy the counterfeits, then those counterfeits would have no market outside their domestic market.
post #55 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard65 View Post

Perhaps these Asian nations learned all about stealing from other nations who stole their land, their produce, their resources and even their people.

We have a subforum for politics. Keep this crap there.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #56 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

It's my understanding that Chinese (and to some part, Korean, and Japanese) culture is to iterate, not innovate. More or less be a "better apprentice" and surpass the master. IP law (particularly patents) found in American and European prohibit being the "apprentice" in the first place. This is why China only allows foreigners to bid on their national projects if they're partnered with a domestic (apprentice) company and thus that company basically gets a free licence to copy the IP.

When it comes to luxury devices (Apple) and fashion (eg Louis Vuitton, Tiffany) you see the other end of the spectrum where Chinese know the value of the brand name and rush out to produce unlicensed copies of the products AND put that brand on products that that brand would never make (Apple stoves, LV branded towels, etc)

The funny thing is, in the case of the iPhone and iPod, Chinese knockoffs are unable to copy the functionality, and certainly make no improvement over an authentic device, so the only people who are fooled by these are those buying them off eBay and Amazon. With fashion, it's a lot harder to tell because a real bag and a fake bag are functionally the same. Fakes are usually made with plastic or PU leather.

The "West" is really the outlier when it comes to acceptance of counterfeit products. If people here weren't willing to buy the counterfeits, then those counterfeits would have no market outside their domestic market.

I don't know about the whole "iterate, not innovate" thing. Pretty sure important things like paper and black powder were invented in China.

From my dealings, it's more like there is less of a concept of intellectual "property", which is more of a Western concept.
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

...If the US did not have such a highly developed judicial system, Americans would still be wearing six shooters, murdering, robbing, slaughtering native people and decimating the natural environment just like they did in the wild west....

 

So you're crediting the lawyers with all this progress?   irked.gif

 

ps: we are still decimating spoiling the environment... http://www.propublica.org/series/fracking

post #58 of 90
I don't understand what motivates the chorus of boos. How is this authentication issue different from the BS the printer manufacturers use to jack up the price of toner refills? When you want to buy a USB cable to run an industry standard protocol across the wire you hope to pay less than $20. I expect this sort of ruse from no name companies but it is disappointing when Apple pulls the stunt. It seems like they make sufficient profit that they wouldn't need to gouge like this. I should add I've been an Apple fan and customer since before when most of you were born.
post #59 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbryan View Post

How is this authentication issue different from the BS the printer manufacturers use to jack up the price of toner refills?

Because this isn't BS.
Quote:
When you want to buy a USB cable to run an industry standard protocol across the wire you hope to pay less than $20.

Lighting is an industry standard? Huh. Guess that was faster than Apple anticipated! It's certainly not USB, at any rate.
Quote:
...sufficient profit...

Thanks for pretending you get to say that.
Quote:
I should add I've been an Apple fan and customer since before when most of you were born.

No. You shouldn't add. No one gives a flip. It's meaningless. You saying this completely destroys your entire point, not that you had one.

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post #60 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because this isn't BS.
Lighting is an industry standard? Huh. Guess that was faster than Apple anticipated! It's certainly not USB, at any rate.
Thanks for pretending you get to say that.
No. You shouldn't add. No one gives a flip. It's meaningless. You saying this completely destroys your entire point, not that you had one.

The USB diagnostic tools do just fine analyzing the packets that go across the cable. Last time I checked USB is still an industry standard. It may stretch the standard by allowing more power to recharge the battery faster. But that is not exactly rocket science. In fact it is a lot like the sleazy cellphone companies that use unnecessarily 'custom' connectors for recharging so you have to buy their over-priced replacement cables / power adapters. I know I read some regulations were considered and possibly passed to inhibit that sort of scam.

It's one thing to support Apple's position when it tries to prevent blatant copying. It's another when even lame attempts to suppress competition are treated with reverence. I support Apple by buying and promoting their excellent products, not by pretending everything they do is always right.
post #61 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbryan View Post

The USB diagnostic tools do just fine analyzing the packets that go across the cable.

Again, USB can't do what Lightning does. Apple didn't want USB. Therefore they created Lightning.
Quote:
...suppress competition...

Shame that's not happening, huh. You might have a point otherwise.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #62 of 90
I don't check into AppleInsider with enough frequency so I just got your reply. Let me try one more time. Apple implemented and deployed FireWire. It is an isochronous version of Ethernet. It's cables do not plug into Ethernet interfaces, hence the unique shape. Lightning cables do plug into USB interfaces but have a different plug on one end. There are many USB cables that have that characteristic, usually a smaller plug because of size constraints. I can see that industry standard microUSB would be hard to fit in my 5G iPod touch. Heck, even the analog audio plug is nonstandard small for that reason.

The issue here is the cryptographic fairy dust that was sprinkled on it to inhibit operating with generic cables that others can and did easily produce. It is the sort of bozo move that I expect from clueless Hollywood executives with their DVD and Bluray encrypted discs (which was also cracked).
post #63 of 90
That was auto-correct that snuck that damn apostrophe into "Its"
post #64 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbryan View Post

Lightning cables do plug into USB interfaces...

They just don't connect to the pins or fit or stay in very well.
Quote:
...but have a different plug on one end.

Lightning ≠ USB. I'm bothered that this still has to be said.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #65 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They just don't connect to the pins or fit or stay in very well.
Lightning ≠ USB. I'm bothered that this still has to be said.

Last I checked one side is totally USB. Yes or no?
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post #66 of 90
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Last I checked one side is totally USB. Yes or no?

Thanks for playing. Maybe read the rules next time, though? And bring the right equipment. And stand on the right side of the field.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #67 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thanks for playing. Maybe read the rules next time, though? And bring the right equipment. And stand on the right side of the field.

That's the answer when you don't want to answer yes. A lighting cable is indeed usb on the other side because of course it needs to plug into chargers but more importantly into computers.
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post #68 of 90
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's the answer when you don't want to answer yes.

Because that isn't even the topic at hand. Try reading posts before replying to them.
Quote:
A lighting cable is indeed usb on the other side because of course it needs to plug into chargers but more importantly into computers.

But. Lightning. Is. Not. USB.

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post #69 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But. Lightning. Is. Not. USB.

But. It. Plugs. Into. USB. Ports. So. One. Half. Of. It. Is. Indeed. USB.
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post #70 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

But. It. Plugs. Into. USB. Ports. So. One. Half. Of. It. Is. Indeed. USB.

I have a 30-pin connector that plugs into a composite jack. I also have an HDMI cable that plugs into a DVI port.

Your point isn't very relevant. Plenty of cables serve as an adapter.
post #71 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

I have a 30-pin connector that plugs into a composite jack. I also have an HDMI cable that plugs into a DVI port.

Your point isn't very relevant. Plenty of cables serve as an adapter.

So why didn't Apple make a specialized plug on both ends so it could only connect to Apple devices and make an expensive USB adapter for people that want to plug into PCs? But since lighting cords are meant to plug into any USB port your 'adapter' point is really the one that has no relevance.
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post #72 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So. One. Half. Of. It. Is. Indeed. USB.

Yep, the half that isn't Lightning in any way, shape, or form. 1biggrin.gif

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post #73 of 90
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yep, the half that isn't Lightning in any way, shape, or form. 1biggrin.gif

Huh? Did you use T9 to type that? Lol
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post #74 of 90
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So why didn't Apple make a specialized plug on both ends so it could only connect to Apple devices and make an expensive USB adapter for people that want to plug into PCs? But since lighting cords are meant to plug into any USB port your 'adapter' point is really the one that has no relevance.

You're saying Lightning is just USB with a proprietary connection. That's false. Just because its possible to have a USB plug on one end doesn't make it USB and more than having an RCA plug on the end of a 30-pin cable makes it an RCA cable.
post #75 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

You're saying Lightning is just USB with a proprietary connection. That's false. Just because its possible to have a USB plug on one end doesn't make it USB and more than having an RCA plug on the end of a 30-pin cable makes it an RCA cable.

So it has a USB plug but that plug isn't USB? Is that what you're saying?
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post #76 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So it has a USB plug but that plug isn't USB? Is that what you're saying?

Nice try.

You have a Lightning cable, but Lightning isn't USB.

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post #77 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nice try.

You have a Lightning cable, but Lightning isn't USB.

OK let me get this straight. There's a plug on one end that looks exactly like a USB plug, it fits into any USB port and conforms to USB standards but it is not USB. Is that about right?
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post #78 of 90
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Okay, just shut up now. When you're ready to stop acting like a fool, maybe someone will want to have a conversation with you.

Because you'll never admit that you're wrong. Answer me this, why didn't Apple go with firewire on the other end? A million dollars that the answer will have USB in it.
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post #79 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Because you'll never admit that you're wrong.

Because I'm not. Because you are. Run along now.

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post #80 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because I'm not.

Because you are. Run along now.

Funny because Apple sells them as 'Lightning to USB'
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable
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