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Microsoft said plotting 'major restructuring' with reorganization to happen as soon as July 1 - Page 2

post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


One big issue MS needs to address is the very high prices it charges for things like Office. Until they deal with that I can't see a significant increase in adoption on other platforms. People are well aware of the high profits associated with some MS apps and as such make rational decisions to avoid supporting MS greed.

 

There won't be a significant increase in MS Office adoption on other platforms because MS doesn't want that to happen.  They won't make a fully functioning version of Office for other platforms.  They may create some viewers and even give minor editing capabilities, but nothing close to the features that Office on a Windows machine will be able to do.  This has been part of their business strategy for decades now.

 

The day that Microsoft makes a fully functioning version of Office for an OS they don't own is the day they "admit" that their OS division is in real trouble.


Edited by DroidFTW - 6/24/13 at 10:22pm
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As it struggles to adjust to the new mobile computing paradigm, software giant Microsoft is said to be mulling a shift in its organizational structure that may leave it better prepared to take on the likes of the iPad, iPhone, and Android devices.

Earlier this month, reports emerged that Microsoft was planning a reorganization that would bring a greater focus on devices and services. Its Xbox console aside, Microsoft's move into computing hardware is a largely new step, as the software giant entered the fray only in the past year with the announcement of its Surface tablets.

The new arrangement is said to have been guided largely by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, with a number of senior executives outside the loop and somewhat anxious regarding their futures at the company, according to AllThingsD.

?It feels like it is going to be titanic ? that Steve is doing this change for his legacy,? said one source. ?And it?s the first time in a long time that it feels like that there will be some major shifts, including some departures.?
 

 

So Steve Ballmer meets a VP in the hallway with, "I know a secret and I won't tell, but someone's career is goin' to hell!"

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

There won't be a significant increase in MS Office adoption on other platforms because MS doesn't want that to happen.  They won't make a fully functioning version of Office for other platforms.  They may create some viewers and even give minor editing capabilities, but nothing close to the features that Office on a Windows machine will be able to do.  This has been part of their business strategy for decades now.

 

The day that Microsoft makes a fully functioning version of Office for an OS they don't own is the day they "admit" that their OS division is in real trouble.

 

I don't quite know how to break this to you, but MS has been making Office for the Mac since forever. Even once including functions before it was available on the Windows OS. 

 

Also, they have announced Office for iOS, however it's crap, just like the version for Windows RT. 

 

However, I do expect that iWorks will siphon off a nice chunk of potential Office sales because a lot of people don't need the plethora of features Office dishes out and iWorks will be available cross platform soon — "poof" there goes another reason to load up Office when a more touch-friendly application is at hand (for a lot less money, as well).

 

I've seen Office on a Surface RT and it's terribly hard to use. It's incomplete, and not optimized for touch as you might expect... a buggy as all hell!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

There won't be a significant increase in MS Office adoption on other platforms because MS doesn't want that to happen.  They won't make a fully functioning version of Office for other platforms.  They may create some viewers and even give minor editing capabilities, but nothing close to the features that Office on a Windows machine will be able to do.  This has been part of their business strategy for decades now.

The day that Microsoft makes a fully functioning version of Office for an OS they don't own is the day they "admit" that their OS division is in real trouble.

LOL. That day already came and went a long time ago:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac

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post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

I don't quite know how to break this to you, but MS has been making Office for the Mac since forever. Even once including functions before it was available on the Windows OS. 

 

Also, they have announced Office for iOS, however it's crap, just like the version for Windows RT. 

 

I was always under the impression that Office for Mac was garbage and lacked features that Office on WIndows offers.  I guess I stand corrected?


Edited by DroidFTW - 6/25/13 at 12:08am
post #46 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


At the center of the reorganization would be a simplification of Microsoft's management structure. Reports from earlier this month floated the possibility that the Windows OS group could be jointly headed by Windows Phone lead Terry Myerson and Windows engineering head Julie Larson-Green.


Mmm... co-managers -- what a refreshing and exciting new approach!
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post #47 of 77
Greater interoperability with the Xbox and window phone???!
Seriously?!
MS is a fragmented behemoth. It takes 20 goddamn people to screw in one light bulb over at MS.
But at the end of the day this is nothing more than smoke and mirrors for Wall Street. MS can't afford to streamline. Its money is made by keeping us in the loop.
post #48 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil View Post

 

You must be meaning to say "out of all the Windows OS".

 

I use both Mountain Lion and Win7 at the moment, and I can’t really come to the same conclusion as you... But maybe you are sensitive to things that I am not (and vice-versa).

 

I would tend to agree that Win7 is the best of the Window OS releases. And again, no comparison to Mountain Lion. I am tied to Windows since I develop on Visual Studio, but at home I shifted to OS X almost 4 years ago.

 

My office laptop is a MBP that has Win.7 installed via Bootcamp. Booting to Windows takes easily 4-5 times the amount of time booting to ML takes.

 

To be fair though, Win.7 is pretty stable. It must have crashed maybe 3 times at the most in the past 2 years. Sad that 3 crashes in 3 years is acceptable though!

post #49 of 77
What ever they do they will have a tiny adoption rate as the last few hold outs for a PC will still mostly be running Windows XP as the ship sinks.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #50 of 77

Microsoft should above all re-think its vision and focus before any strategical decision. Fact is, anything mobile they have touched up to now turned into shit. Another fact is that they cannot loose in the field where they are the best: business computing at almost all sizes, except perhaps large server farms. There are also too many hardware companies totally depending on them. No one can license them better OS than Windows. And there is absolutely no commercial replacement to Windows in SME, not only because of software, but because of unbelievable net of partners worldwide.

 

MS should above all ask themselves following questions:

 

- do we really want to race the mobile race?

- should we spin-off divisions that do not belong to our core business?


Edited by poksi - 6/25/13 at 6:01am
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Microsoft isn't doomed yet.  They have a long history of releasing bad versions of Windows followed by much better ones.  Windows 7 is probably the best OS on the market right now.  With the mixed reviews that Windows 8 gets, I would venture a guess that the next version of Windows will probably be pretty good (at least for desktops).  If it's not, then I'll start giving more weight to the naysayers.

Here's a simplified timeline to consider:

Win 98 SE - Good

Win ME - Bad

Win XP - Good

Win Vista - Bad

Win 7 - Good

Win 8  - Bad
Win 9 - Good?

You're right about the odd-numbered versions always being the good ones from MS.

You're wrong about MS Win7 being the best OS, considering that all of the tech advances over the last few years are all being done on UNIX-based platforms.

Almost all development (like 95%) for mobile and web ... and by Google itself... is being performed on Macs and OS X. That's actually a fact.

Edited to add strike-thru because I can't find the #$%^&* link! Also I should add the disclaimer to the above, "that is unless your developing for enterprise-specific apps"... which of course need VB.
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 6/25/13 at 5:28am
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post #52 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Microsoft isn't doomed yet.  They have a long history of releasing bad versions of Windows followed by much better ones.  Windows 7 is probably the best OS on the market right now.  With the mixed reviews that Windows 8 gets, I would venture a guess that the next version of Windows will probably be pretty good (at least for desktops).  If it's not, then I'll start giving more weight to the naysayers.

 

Here's a simplified timeline to consider:

 

Win 98 SE - Good
Win ME - Bad
Win XP - Good
Win Vista - Bad
Win 7 - Good
Win 8  - Bad

Win 9 - Good?

 

You have forgotten a few - I have used most versions of Windows - including server versions - and I would say that Windows 7 is the best version of Windows - but not the best OS overall. 

 

Windows 3.1 - networking was really screwy.

Windows NT - lots of device driver compatibility issues

Windows 98 - had lots of short comings

Windows XP - the first version that was truly useable but very unstable and full of security holes

Windows 7 - with some tweaking to make it look more like XP is very much more stable and secure but still annoying especially when used by folks who don't know or care about anything other than downloading the latest free game and or checking their Facebook and "what do you mean by task bar?"

post #53 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

I was always under the impression that Office for Mac was garbage and lacked features that Office on WIndows offers.  I guess I stand corrected?

Let me put it this way: it doesn't lack features except VBA, which is a scripting language, and otherwise it's no more "garbage" than Windows Office. Since they stagger the release of Windows and Mac versions in different years, I think there are some minor feature differences, but I couldn't name any because they're not obvious. Unlike Office clones, Mac Office opens Windows office files and formats them correctly. It even has a ribbon. Edits made by one match in the other platform, so it's real Microsoft Office.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

Microsoft should above all re-think its vision and focus before any strategical decision. Fact is, anything mobile they have touched up to now turned into shit. Another fact is that they cannot loose in the field where they are the best: business computing at almost all sizes, except perhaps large server farms. There are also too many hardware companies totally depending on them. No one can license them better OS than Windows. And there is absolutely no commercial replacement to Windows in SME, not only because of software, but because of unbelievable net of partners worldwide.

MS should above all ask themselves following questions:

- do we really want to race the mobile race?
- should we spin-off divisions that do not belong to our core business?

It seems they already have done the strategic rethink when they went for broke in Windows 8/RT/Phone. That is going to be Steve's legacy. Whether he'll leave before that vision pays off (or fails) is to be determined. Chairman Bill Gates is bullish on Steve's vision, so he's not going to get fired, yet.

A reorg at this point will probably consolidate his power, clean house of undesirables in upper management, and (maybe) tear down a few walls within Microsoft. I don't expect anything radical because Microsoft isn't in dire straits. My prediction.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #55 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Mmm... co-managers -- what a refreshing and exciting new approach!


What's wrong with that!

 

It worked for Research In Motion.

 

Oh.... wait...

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post #56 of 77
Ballmer's like a dear in the head lights of this "titanic" heading straight for an iceberg and paralyzed by the fear of thinking different!
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by krreagan View Post

Ballmer's like a dear in the head lights of this "titanic" heading straight for an iceberg and paralyzed by the fear of thinking different!


Paralyzed by the fear of thinking different?

 

Hardly.

 

Windows 8 was a huge leap for Microsoft.

 

Into the fire.

 

Thinking brilliant is a totally different concept. So far Ballmer has shown none (or, at best, very little) of that.

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post #58 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Paralyzed by the fear of thinking different?

 

Hardly.

 

Windows 8 was a huge leap for Microsoft.

 

Into the fire.

 

Thinking brilliant is a totally different concept. So far Ballmer has shown none (or, at best, very little) of that.

 

I'll grant them that they did rethink Windows 8, and managed to get it out quicker than they did Vista.

Microsoft is playing the long game here, so they believe that over time, people will get used to "Metro" and Windows 8 will become the new normal. They cite how Windows XP was regarded as ugly back in the day (it replaced Windows 2000, which was just the Windows 95 UI with gradient ramps), but went on to become a very accepted OS over nearly a decade when it was retired. And Windows 7, which uses Vista's UI, is now accepted as terrific, or "the best." Ballmer & Co really believe that this will happen with Windows 8.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #59 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

I'll grant them that they did rethink Windows 8, and managed to get it out quicker than they did Vista.

Microsoft is playing the long game here, so they believe that over time, people will get used to "Metro" and Windows 8 will become the new normal. They cite how Windows XP was regarded as ugly back in the day (it replaced Windows 2000, which was just the Windows 95 UI with gradient ramps), but went on to become a very accepted OS over nearly a decade when it was retired. And Windows 7, which uses Vista's UI, is now accepted as terrific, or "the best." Ballmer & Co really believe that this will happen with Windows 8.


I think that Ballmer has his head in the 80s when they had time on their side. In this day and age things change a little too quickly and Microsoft is being left behind in the consumer game. MS will continue to do well in the enterprise for a long time but I think its day of relevancy has come and gone.

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post #60 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

 

You have forgotten a few - I have used most versions of Windows - including server versions - and I would say that Windows 7 is the best version of Windows - but not the best OS overall. 

 

Windows 3.1 - networking was really screwy.

Windows NT - lots of device driver compatibility issues

Windows 98 - had lots of short comings

Windows XP - the first version that was truly useable but very unstable and full of security holes

Windows 7 - with some tweaking to make it look more like XP is very much more stable and secure but still annoying especially when used by folks who don't know or care about anything other than downloading the latest free game and or checking their Facebook and "what do you mean by task bar?"

Agh! Visions of installing Trumpet Winsock coming back!! *shudder*

post #61 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

I was always under the impression that Office for Mac was garbage and lacked features that Office on WIndows offers.  I guess I stand corrected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Let me put it this way: it doesn't lack features except VBA, which is a scripting language, and otherwise it's no more "garbage" than Windows Office. Since they stagger the release of Windows and Mac versions in different years, I think there are some minor feature differences, but I couldn't name any because they're not obvious. Unlike Office clones, Mac Office opens Windows office files and formats them correctly. It even has a ribbon. Edits made by one match in the other platform, so it's real Microsoft Office.

Actually the VBA editor was added to the Mac version a couple of years ago (2010?), so there is currently no functional difference between the Mac and Windows versions.
post #62 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil View Post

 

You must be meaning to say "out of all the Windows OS".

 

I use both Mountain Lion and Win7 at the moment, and I can’t really come to the same conclusion as you... But maybe you are sensitive to things that I am not (and vice-versa).

 

And reading the comments in context, that is what was implied.  I saw the context and understood the meaning.

post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Translation: Windows 8 and the tablets have been a failure.

 

I think a better explanation can be had here: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-10-30/

 

 

No, seriously... there's been a lot of failures, even outside of Windows 8 and the whole tablet thing. The entire mobile thing, the XBox One egg->face incident, you-name-it. I think the only parts of MSFT that didn't shoot their feet this year are the folks who do Exchange and SQL Server.

post #64 of 77
My wife works for a major insurance company here in Chicago. Working from home yesterday, she fired up her laptop, still running WinXP. I asked if the entire company was still running XP. "Yes, but not for long. We're 'updating' to Win7.' Clearly, Enterprise is not happy with the recent direction (i.e. last decade or more) of Microsoft's OS evolution. Why not be the innovator they once were, cut their losses, and completely re-imagine the OS on a new *nix-based kernel, one that's scalable to present mobile devices (and other devices that may not even exist yet)? Their present strategy clearly isn't working, Business ain't buying what they're selling, and they can't support legacy code forever and progress. If current leadership can't see this (especially in a business environment that seems to change almost daily), then it's time for a change in leadership.
post #65 of 77
Microsoft and partners are in serious jeopardy.

No more can Apple be said to be overpriced. With the inclusion of iWork for iCloud, Apple products and services are the more cost effective solutions.

Microsoft Office 365 = $99.99/yr or more
Google Apps = $50/yr
Apple iWork for iCloud = free iCloud account with hardware
post #66 of 77
Balmer is the problem here, so any restructuring led by him is going to be a miserable failure because it does not deal with the root cause of Microsoft's troubles. It has no real leadership, no innovation engine, nothing. It is a behemoth of middle managers cobbling together products that nobody asked for.
post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Let me put it this way: it doesn't lack features except VBA, which is a scripting language, and otherwise it's no more "garbage" than Windows Office. Since they stagger the release of Windows and Mac versions in different years, I think there are some minor feature differences, but I couldn't name any because they're not obvious. Unlike Office clones, Mac Office opens Windows office files and formats them correctly. It even has a ribbon. Edits made by one match in the other platform, so it's real Microsoft Office.

 

Thanks for the info.  The mention of being able to read and write Office docs with correct formatting is surprising to hear.  As you correctly point out, most can't do that.  I'll have to adjust my opinion on Microsoft's anti-competitive nature (but maybe just a little 1wink.gif ).

post #68 of 77
Can AAPL be far behind? It feel off a cliff the day Tim Cook took over. Balmer and Cook have a lot in common. They were handed the reigns by the geniuses behind Microsoft and Apple and the new ceos crippled both companies.
post #69 of 77
The change may include hiring executives with the same names as those in Apple, to further copying the success of that Cupertino company.
post #70 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Can AAPL be far behind? It feel off a cliff the day Tim Cook took over. Balmer and Cook have a lot in common. They were handed the reigns by the geniuses behind Microsoft and Apple and the new ceos crippled both companies.

Sure he did.

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post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I have been suggesting for years that Microsoft needs to dump their platform and take the risk that Apple did by moving to a Unix-based operating system.

I was escorted out of M$ HQ for that very remark... heh

post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Can AAPL be far behind? It feel off a cliff the day Tim Cook took over. Balmer and Cook have a lot in common. They were handed the reigns by the geniuses behind Microsoft and Apple and the new ceos crippled both companies.

Go away already. AAPL was at 375 ish when Cook took over.
post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post



Actually the VBA editor was added to the Mac version a couple of years ago (2010?), so there is currently no functional difference between the Mac and Windows versions.

 

I do development in VBA on a Mac for users on both Mac and Windows versions of Office - and while support for VBA is quite good, especially compared to sorry can't do that at all, there are still places where there are differences between the two versions. Active X is a big one - works on Windows and not available on Mac (which is likely a good thing, but it does mean that some folks write code that will only work on Windows). Some differences are the way the OS works in terms of the filesystem so to write cross platform you have to write separate code to handle each platform differently. The biggest gripe I have is the way colors and fonts are rendered - I can layout a beautiful custom dialog box linked of a carefully placed button on a spreadsheet and then open in on the Windows side and my graphics elements do not line up properly and the foreground and background colors no longer match. 

post #74 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

Microsoft should above all re-think its vision and focus before any strategical decision. Fact is, anything mobile they have touched up to now turned into shit. Another fact is that they cannot loose in the field where they are the best: business computing at almost all sizes, except perhaps large server farms. There are also too many hardware companies totally depending on them. No one can license them better OS than Windows. And there is absolutely no commercial replacement to Windows in SME, not only because of software, but because of unbelievable net of partners worldwide.

MS should above all ask themselves following questions:

- do we really want to race the mobile race?

Of course they do. PC market is already oversaturated, while smartphone and tablet markets are still (reasonably) young. In addition, maturity of desktop market is killing upgrade reasons for majority of customers - 5 years old Core 2 Duo PC/laptop will do fine for majority of users, and with not more than 4GB of RAM (really minor investment today) will run Win 7 and 8 fine. On the other hand, dynamics of mobile market are still in favour of 2 years refresh cycle, and level of maturity where next hardware upgrade simply does not matter for majority wasn't reached yet (thought it is getting there) - so that's El Dorado of IT industry right now.
Quote:
- should we spin-off divisions that do not belong to our core business?

Being software company predominantly, making of OSes and applications is their core business. And in turn to keep them well connected and integrated, you'd probably want to keep them close together. They could spin off Entertainment and Hardware, IMHO.
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Oh.  Now they're thinking about interoperability and the whole ecosystem thing.
Finally getting serious, are we Ballmer?

Maybe the "capabilities and interoperability" would have been easier if Windows desktop and 
Windows Phone shared the same kernel and low-level OS code.  But then again, maybe the Windows
kernel and low-level code (and, horror of single-point-of-failure horrors, The Registry), were too
bloated, fragile, and too dependent on Intel's power-hog CPUs to port to mobile.

Good luck with that legacy deal, Ballmer.
And may the computing gods be more favorable to your successor.

Um... you don't know that "On October 29, 2012, Microsoft released Windows Phone 8, a new generation of the operating system. Windows Phone 8 replaces its previously Windows CE-based architecture with one based on the Windows NT kernel with many components shared with Windows 8, allowing applications to be easily ported between the two platforms"..?
post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Riiiiight, because clearly that is how Apple has been successful with the iOS platform - by cramming every desktop feature into there creating a full desktop experience smooshed into a 4" screen - NOT!

The single most genius thing that Apple did with the original iPhone was NOT dragging every bit of legacy baggage along for the ride. While I think it is great that the underlying kernel has a similar base - and that many parts of the user interface and user experience are converging - if Apple had tried to deliver a Mac OS X Phone back in 2007 it may not have done nearly as well. 

On the other hand - from the limited screen shots I have seen of iOS7 - not sure if my sweet tooth is strong enough for the cotton candy UI - and I have one heck of a sweet tooth. Seriously though, a number of pics I have seen of the developer release show very thin light elements with little contrast between the elements and the background - could be a serious issue if there isn't a way to change it. I do understand to a degree Steve Jobs' obsession with keeping the user experience from getting fragmented - I do not understand the pathological aversion to allowing the end user to customize the appears of their own device. Simple things like audio feedback from UI elements can make a huge difference - or not having monotone gray icons in iTunes can actually be helpful to the user. 

This is not true. Current problem (majority?) of users have with Windows is not that desktop features are forced into phones, but that phone features are forced onto desktop.

As a phone and tablet platforms, Windows Modern GUI works fine. Based on my experience, it is my opinion that WP8 is comparable efficiency-wise to iOS, both being much more efficient and less resources-demanding than Android. Even Win 8 Pro works remarkably smooth on underpowered Atom tablets, and GUI comes naturally on hand-held, touch-screen devices.

But on desktops? While I'm using Win 8 at work and home and am fine with it (as in not even considering to fall back to 7), I can understand why it's bipolar nature doesn't go well with so many users. I like preview features of tiles (new emails, calendar, ToDos, weather etc.) but, beside using Modern Skype more often than desktop version, I am almost exclusively on desktop anyway. I'd be happy to see an option to open Modern apps windowed on desktop, and to be able to put tiles on desktop rather than having to switch between desktop and Modern, quick and easy as it is. That being said, none of my computers has touch screen yet; can't say if having one would change my opinion.
post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
 based on the Windows NT kernel with many components shared with Windows 8, allowing applications to be easily ported between the two platforms"..?

 

...and that explains why MSFT is bleeding developer mindshare like a sieve since Windows 8 came out ...how?

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