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IDC: Apple's iPhone sheds European marketshare in Q1, pushed out of top 5 in India

post #1 of 103
Thread Starter 
A pair of reports from market research firm IDC on Tuesday showed the iPhone lost ground in Western Europe during the first quarter of 2013, while Android devices bumped Apple's handset out of the top-five in India over the same period.

According to IDC's European Mobile Phone Tracker, the iPhone's share of the region's smartphone market fell to 20 percent, a year-over-year drop of 11 percent. Samsung boosted its share to 45 percent, growing 31 percent compared to the first quarter of 2012. Apple's 20 percent share was good enough for second place, while next-closest competitor Sony held 10 percent of the market.

It should be noted that the IDC estimates shipments, not sales, meaning a substantial number of units counted may still be in supply channels.

IDC
Source: IDC


Apple's dip may be attributed to an overall slowdown in smartphone sales as shipments increased 12 percent year on year to 31.6 million units, the lowest rate of growth since the firm began tracking the mobile phone market in 2004. Another likely contributor is a rough economic climate, which could bring pause to those considering a premium handset like the iPhone.

According to IDC's European mobile devices research director Francisco Jeronimo, the region is now in a "second wave" of smartphone adoption. The first wave was fueled by users who wanted to buy devices that would fill their needs, and were able to afford the performance. The second wave will be driven by customers with little need for such functionality.

"These new users are looking to replace their current feature phones with another feature phone, as smartphones are fancy gadgets that they don't feel the need to have. However, when they go to a phone shop most of the options available are smartphones only; their friends, colleagues and family may have smartphones and are always talking about the latest apps, and the cheapest smartphones they note are most likely to be as low in price as the last feature phone they bought," Jeronimo said. "With a small push from sales people, the sale is almost guaranteed. But they will buy one of the cheapest smartphones as they still see no value for money."

This may be why manufacturers like LG and Sony boosted their European marketshare by 380 percent and 100 percent year-to-year, respectively.

Overall mobile phone shipments dropped 4.2 percent year-over-year.

iPhone in India



As for the burgeoning Indian market, The Times of India reports Samsung to be in command of that market as well, with Apple nudged out of the top-five device makers as cheaper Android handsets held a staggering 90 percent marketshare.

India


"Apple has always been a niche player in the country," said IDC senior market analyst Manasi Yadav. "Apple numbers in Q4 of 2012 were exceptional but their shipments actually saw a dip in Q1 of 2013 as per our numbers."

Domestic companies Micromax and Karbonn took second and third place in shipment volumes, holding around 19 percent and 11 percent of the market, respectively.

Apple did make an appearance in the top-five in terms of value, however, as the iPhone continues to be exceedingly profitable compared to Android devices. The company came in fifth behind Samsung, Micromax, Nokia and Sony.

The report is somewhat in contrast with a recent report from Credit Suisse, which estimated iPhone sales in India to have grown 400 percent from February to May, a number identical to IDC's own shipment estimates from February. That boost was attributed to aggressive pricing strategies in the country, including student discounts and monthly installment programs, among others.

According to IDC, the Indian smartphone market grew 24 percent in the first quarter of 2013.
post #2 of 103
And with that, the concern trolls have their bad news to "worry" about.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #3 of 103
They also maintained their position in the rankings.
post #4 of 103
It sounds like the European market is basically a big win for the lowest price option. I don't think Apple could compete even if it sold an iPod with a data connection that could only make VoIP calls
post #5 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

iPhone in India

As for the burgeoning Indian market, The Times of India reports Samsung to be in command of that market as well, with Apple nudged out of the top-five device makers as CHEAPER Android handsets held a staggering 90 percent marketshare.

 

So I'm guessing this is not caused by deciding not to incorporate a larger screen...

post #6 of 103
At this point, smartphone share really becomes meaningless if people are using them as feature phones.

Maybe an iPhone mini can disrupt this somewhat, but it's rather unnecessary for apple to compete in that market.
post #7 of 103
E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

So I'm guessing this is not caused by deciding not to incorporate a larger screen...

Even cheap Android phones have larger than 4" screens. In all honesty I don't know what's on the market in India, but the "free" AT&T phones are 4.3" (LG Escape, Pantech Flex). Prepaid phones, too (Samsung Galaxy Express - 4.5" and $249). iOS is far superior to Android, but new customers won't realize this and get the phone they can read text on or press buttons more easily on. These are missed opportunities for Apple.

iPhone 5 64GB, iPhone 4S 16GB, mid-2011 iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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iPhone 5 64GB, iPhone 4S 16GB, mid-2011 iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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post #8 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

And with that, the concern trolls have their bad news to "worry" about.

What's a "concern troll"?
post #9 of 103

Look like somebody tried to push the stock below $400 in the past couple of days for psychological effect but failed. I hope this is the work of Apple's buy-back money.

post #10 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

E
Even cheap Android phones have larger than 4" screens. In all honesty I don't know what's on the market in India, but the "free" AT&T phones are 4.3" (LG Escape, Pantech Flex). Prepaid phones, too (Samsung Galaxy Express - 4.5" and $249). iOS is far superior to Android, but new customers won't realize this and get the phone they can read text on or press buttons more easily on. These are missed opportunities for Apple.

I wholeheartedly agree.  Sadly, I know very little of India also.  I was making a little jibe.  I would ask you to remember that in the U.S. we're desensitized about the actual phone cost.  I was thinking, perhaps misguided, that they were not subsidized there.  Only from what I have read.  So are the examples you quoted really "free" there? (going beyond the average consumers perception of free)  Are the larger screen phones really less expensive?

 

However I must admit I do like the larger screens.  Just not too big...  Some of them look like T.V.'s!

post #11 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Look like somebody tried to push the stock below $400 in the past couple of days for psychological effect but failed. I hope this is the work of Apple's buy-back money.

Yea, I'm not happy.  I bought a bunch at $425.  I actually watched it go up to $460 and then drop below $400.

 

One of the few times I made a bad buy.  ...or didn't sell when I should have.

post #12 of 103
Isn't ISC the same firm that forecast the total demise of Apple and the iPhone a year or two ago?
post #13 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

What's a "concern troll"?

Nice to see gwmac voicing his willful ignorance.

A concern troll is one who posts under the guise of actual concern at a decision Apple has made, but whose actual purpose is to simply inject the seed of doubt in Apple by the act of posting itself.
post #14 of 103
Auto corrected from IDC.
post #15 of 103
This study confirms in my mind the reasoning behind a lower cost iPhone.

In the US its not needed but around the world Apple is in characteristically losing ground.

My hope at this point is that the low cost iPhone will be something groundbreaking. Not just the rumored iPhone 5 in a plastic shell.
post #16 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Yea, I'm not happy.  I bought a bunch at $425.  I actually watched it go up to $460 and then drop below $400.

 

One of the few times I made a bad buy.  ...or didn't sell when I should have.

C'mon.  Apple stock isn't going to stay below $425.  I'm afraid you're going to have to wait for the new iPhones to be introduced.  I'm buying around the $400 mark, but for all I know it could go lower at the end of the financial quarter.  I'm really not all that concerned.  The analysts are on an Apple witch hunt and they're always looking for bad signs.  Apple will fare no worse than any other company when it comes to actual revenue and profits.  Just remember, the further the stock drops, the more stock Apple can buy back.  I don't think you made a mistake except maybe you bought too early.  However, I'm sure the stock will go back up over $460 by the end of the year.

post #17 of 103

The supposed dip in sales in India isn't putting any brakes on Apple here. They still are taking out full page ads in papers.

 

The most recent one I saw was a 4000 rupee buyback for any old notebook or tablet if you buy a new iPad.

post #18 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

C'mon.  Apple stock isn't going to stay below $425.  I'm afraid you're going to have to wait for the new iPhones to be introduced.  I'm buying around the $400 mark, but for all I know it could go lower at the end of the financial quarter.  I'm really not all that concerned.  The analysts are on an Apple witch hunt and they're always looking for bad signs.  Apple will fare no worse than any other company when it comes to actual revenue and profits.  Just remember, the further the stock drops, the more stock Apple can buy back.  I don't think you made a mistake except maybe you bought too early.  However, I'm sure the stock will go back up over $460 by the end of the year.

Thanks!

 

Just remember that it could go lower, and it could go higher.  (LOL)  Anything further than that and you've gone beyond reality with APPL.  The P/E ratio, proffitabillity, Debt, market saturation and even rumors do NOT affect APPL.

 

Not a ton in it, but enough to watch and wonder.

post #19 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

It sounds like the European market is basically a big win for the lowest price option. I don't think Apple could compete even if it sold an iPod with a data connection that could only make VoIP calls

 

 

Nope. Totally wrong. Come to Europe and see what the vast majority of new phones especially with population that frequently buys new ones are. Apple is loosing share on its ground: so-called premium. Considering screen size to be killer feature over here, Apple holds remarkably high market share. Still. Reasons are other features and above all overall quality. Young people being the largest customer don't care so much about either: killer app in Europe is still messaging and every boy and girl will tell you that is easier to type on larger screen, and using Facebook as well.

 

I can also tell you how it feels on development: my team of iOS developers has grown from 4 to 5 in 2 years and Android team has grown from 0 to 7 in same period. OK, they have more crap to cope with, that is true. It is also true we have more work as before as well, but incomparably to Android team. Bottom line: Android gets used more an more. People buying those phones soon or a later start to use Google's services and get used to crappy interface. Majority of them will find impossible to go to iOS as it was for me impossible to go to Android. They are lost market, not for phones, let us forget about crappy phones once, but for services, for Apple account on Appstore and iTunes. Apple is talking so much about all this but do so little to make it mainstream success. There is only limited amount of money person will spend for such services. To enhance them you need more earning an those are possible with mass only beyond average dollar to be spend per person….

 

Times when young people just upgraded from iPod to iPhones are all but over. Most of the young people, new smartphone users from this year onward will not even know what the iPod is. They will not choose on legacy, they will also not choose on quality that much. They choose on variety, functionality and on what is hot today. Far East production of everything else has learned them to buy new stuff frequently and that quality is not the most important. 

 

Year 2013 will be lost year for Apple, known to profit in crises in saturation, they haven't had plan B to cope with 4" retina legacy, or better SJ legacy that brought problems to TC. If it would be for TC himself, he would have put through plan B in last year already, but he has a mentality to fight on other places. I think Apple brass is just not prepared or know how to be a mainstream company. For us, developers, that is a shame, for geeks this is yet another opportunity to fill their empty lives and stay cool in the shadow…

post #20 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

The supposed dip in sales in India isn't putting any brakes on Apple here. They still are taking out full page ads in papers.

 

The most recent one I saw was a 4000 rupee buyback for any old notebook or tablet if you buy a new iPad.

Any chance you could post a pic of the add?  Honestly just because I'm curious.

post #21 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

The supposed dip in sales in India isn't putting any brakes on Apple here. They still are taking out full page ads in papers.

 

The most recent one I saw was a 4000 rupee buyback for any old notebook or tablet if you buy a new iPad.

 

Data is mentioned to be for Q1. Are the adds and sales actions perhaps consequence of the dip?

post #22 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

This study confirms in my mind the reasoning behind a lower cost iPhone.

In the US its not needed but around the world Apple is in characteristically losing ground.

My hope at this point is that the low cost iPhone will be something groundbreaking. Not just the rumored iPhone 5 in a plastic shell.

 

cheaper iPhone in Europe will not be game changer alone. Market is splitting to 4" low(mid) cost phones and large screen premium. 

 

current (or past)           moving to

----------------------------------------------------------

4" premium                 4.5"-5" premium

3.5-4" mid                   mostly stays the same on move to above (minority)

low cost and feature    3.5-4" mid or stays

 

4" premium is dying out similar to feature. If iPhone wouldn't be 4" premium, this class would be wiped out already....

post #23 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

 

 

Nope. Totally wrong. Come to Europe and see what the vast majority of new phones especially with population that frequently buys new ones are. Apple is loosing share on its ground: so-called premium. Considering screen size to be killer feature over here, Apple holds remarkably high market share. Still. Reasons are other features and above all overall quality. Young people being the largest customer don't care so much about either: killer app in Europe is still messaging and every boy and girl will tell you that is easier to type on larger screen, and using Facebook as well.

 

I can also tell you how it feels on development: my team of iOS developers has grown from 4 to 5 in 2 years and Android team has grown from 0 to 7 in same period. OK, they have more crap to cope with, that is true. It is also true we have more work as before as well, but incomparably to Android team. Bottom line: Android gets used more an more. People buying those phones soon or a later start to use Google's services and get used to crappy interface. Majority of them will find impossible to go to iOS as it was for me impossible to go to Android. They are lost market, not for phones, let us forget about crappy phones once, but for services, for Apple account on Appstore and iTunes. Apple is talking so much about all this but do so little to make it mainstream success. There is only limited amount of money person will spend for such services. To enhance them you need more earning an those are possible with mass only beyond average dollar to be spend per person….

 

Times when young people just upgraded from iPod to iPhones are all but over. Most of the young people, new smartphone users from this year onward will not even know what the iPod is. They will not choose on legacy, they will also not choose on quality that much. They choose on variety, functionality and on what is hot today. Far East production of everything else has learned them to buy new stuff frequently and that quality is not the most important. 

 

Year 2013 will be lost year for Apple, known to profit in crises in saturation, they haven't had plan B to cope with 4" retina legacy, or better SJ legacy that brought problems to TC. If it would be for TC himself, he would have put through plan B in last year already, but he has a mentality to fight on other places. I think Apple brass is just not prepared or know how to be a mainstream company. For us, developers, that is a shame, for geeks this is yet another opportunity to fill their empty lives and stay cool in the shadow…

Well... I'm not sure how to take your info.  You seem like a shill.  The European bit gives you and edge though.  I was in Europe recently, and I honestly noticed very few iPhones.  I did see a lot of iPads!

 

I agree that the larger screen sizes are nice, and I see them a lot in New England.  I do have a hard time understanding your build quality statements.  Unless they were purchased for them (the younger ones) then if I absolutely had to go with an Android phone it would almost certainly have to be the HTC1.  However I suppose if your parents are giving it to you then you get what you're given.

 

Then again, a close friend of mine is a bouncer at a very prominent night club here in New England and he said he very rarely notices Apple's phones.  Mostly large screen phones.

 

I'm kind of 50/50 on the subject.  But I do agree that the youth (strange to say that because I'm only 24) will have the biggest impact while voting with dollars.

 

Edit:  O.K. I re-read your post.  I did go to school for computer sciences (among many things) and I can write both an Android and an iPhone APP.  It's actually easier to write an Android APP so saying they (your developers) have more "***" to cope with is beyond reasonable so you're a shill.  Sorry!  I don't believe anything you said anymore.

 

No matter what the Apple fanatics say here, it is literally twice as time consuming to write a specific app for iOS than it is for Android.  The applications that are done right and actually LOOK good took at LEAST twice the amount of time.  Even if the fanatics say it's easier to write an iOS version...  They're just nuts!

 

Tallest!  This one deserves your... (humor?)


Edited by Vadania - 6/25/13 at 11:45pm
post #24 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

 

cheaper iPhone in Europe will not be game changer alone. Market is splitting to 4" low(mid) cost phones and large screen premium. 

 

current (or past)           moving to

----------------------------------------------------------

4" premium                 4.5"-5" premium

3.5-4" mid                   mostly stays the same on move to above (minority)

low cost and feature    3.5-4" mid or stays

 

4" premium is dying out similar to feature. If iPhone wouldn't be 4" premium, this class would be wiped out already....

I still think you're a shill, but I agree that the popular screen size has gone beyond what Apple wants to do without fragmentation.

 

Honestly if dollars are voting, (and not sane people), they'll increase the screen size.  Sadly in the fast moving world of cell phones, next year may be too late.

 

They do have a history of surprising.  

 

Normally in the U.S. the fashion moves from the West coast to the East coast.  This would be a surprising reversal.

post #25 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

 

Edit:  O.K. I re-read your post.  I did go to school for computer sciences (among many things) and I can write both an Android and an iPhone APP.  It's actually easier to write an Android APP so saying they (your developers) have more "***" to cope with is beyond reasonable so you're a shill.  Sorry!  I don't believe anything you said anymore.

 

No matter what the Apple fanatics say here, it is literally twice as time consuming to write a specific app for iOS than it is for Android.  The applications that are done right and actually LOOK good took at LEAST twice the amount of time.  Even if the fanatics say it's easier to write an iOS version...  They're just nuts!

 

Tallest!  This one deserves your... (humor?)

 

Great, you went to school for computer science and you "can" write both apps. Good for you. Now let me explain to you what is a "***" to cope with:

 

- while many people get shivers even seeing square brackets of Objective C comparing to Java it it still a C language. We do project that incorporate C and C++ externals and we can use it with 0 effort, without NDK and any problems that can come around corner. And they do, as much as simple as it may sound

- Objective C being hard to learn is a myth, has nothing to do with reality, it is already the 3rd used language...

- Xcode is limited IDE in terms of languages supported, but extremely well suited for iOS and OS X development, much more than Eclipse with SDK for Android

- generally Xcode is faster to work with, easier to maintain

- while testing on Android makes almost 0 effort, it takes much more effort to make apps secure

- I have very exact Simulators for every iOS model. How does that look like on Android SDK?

- integration of simulator and IDE gives a lot of small, but very useful features you don't even count with unless very much needed as easy location spoofing and stuff..

- wanna see how much time is spent on android on screen size fragmentation alone? Imagine I make easily the same app for 10 and 8" iPad, what is my colleague doing when supporting Galaxy Tab 2 and Nexus 7 with same app?

- fragmentation of hardware has caused us to select only some android hardware to support it happened many times problems occurred in the middle of product cycle, like the last one with Nexus's crapy front camera...

- ...

 

I could go on here far further, because this is just a glimpse of reality. The fact you selected one single irrelevant point from the whole story speaks for yourself. Speaks about dogmatic immaturity, like finding some needle in haystack just to oppose. You are young and have time to grow and learn beyond "can". Because you will have to, to survive, since you are not genius as I am not. We wouldn't post here if we were...

post #26 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

I still think you're a shill, but I agree that the popular screen size has gone beyond what Apple wants to do without fragmentation.

 

Honestly if dollars are voting, (and not sane people), they'll increase the screen size.  Sadly in the fast moving world of cell phones, next year may be too late.

 

They do have a history of surprising.  

 

Normally in the U.S. the fashion moves from the West coast to the East coast.  This would be a surprising reversal.

 

I stil think you are immature calling people shills picking one irrelevant point out of context trying to patronize in arrogant way.

post #27 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

And with that, the concern trolls have their bad news to "worry" about.

 



No, with "that," the nay sayers who've been poo poo'ing the iPhone Light rumors have their justification to shut up.

post #28 of 103
Presumably this data excludes the UK? I know a large percentage of Brits favour iPhones & Apple products in general.
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
Reply
post #29 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Presumably this data excludes the UK? I know a large percentage of Brits favour iPhones & Apple products in general.

 

Includes most probably. still UK comprises something like 12-13% of the total market? However, yes, I can notice much , much more iPhone presence in UK than in Germany and Austria, for example.

post #30 of 103

The problem with Apple in Europe is far more complicated that  is sound... First, 60% of europeans are left out of apple ecosistem ..... For me, maps is unusable, siri is not working, not to speak about apple store.. no movies or tv shows! Also, there is no Apple Store, so we have to buy phones from carriers.. if an american pay 99$ for a iPhone, we have to pay like 300 Euros and to take a contract for at least 2 years .. I am a iphone user, and probabbly I will still be, but if Apple continue to focus only on American market.. I do not know .. and I can bet hat the problem is the same for India to... If I pay for something premium, I expect premium services.. It seem that google understud that, and Apple no. My friends with samsung galaxy can have voice guidance in native language, can buy movies and tv shows .. not me .. So, for me, as long as Apple will focus only on  American market, the future is not bright outside that wall

post #31 of 103
It is understandable as poor people are more than rich .
post #32 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokra128 View Post

The problem with Apple in Europe is far more complicated that  is sound... First, 60% of europeans are left out of apple ecosistem ..... For me, maps is unusable, siri is not working, not to speak about apple store.. no movies or tv shows! Also, there is no Apple Store, so we have to buy phones from carriers.. if an american pay 99$ for a iPhone, we have to pay like 300 Euros and to take a contract for at least 2 years .. I am a iphone user, and probabbly I will still be, but if Apple continue to focus only on American market.. I do not know .. and I can bet hat the problem is the same for India to... If I pay for something premium, I expect premium services.. It seem that google understud that, and Apple no. My friends with samsung galaxy can have voice guidance in native language, can buy movies and tv shows .. not me .. So, for me, as long as Apple will focus only on  American market, the future is not bright outside that wall

 

 

- I originate from Slovenia, I can buy there music and TV shows all within negotiated IP right for the particular country or region

- I can also buy everything else from other services stores

- we pay shit load of more money for everything else as well. This is called "oil-dollar" policy from Nixon's office further...:))   S4 actually costs more than iPhone 5

- I have voice guidance in native language in my navigation app as well, but I agree, everything originate from Apple has limited localization

- Maps are problem in general, not just in Europe. However, while content and accuracy may grow in the future, solid technology foundations are laid and are superior to google's

 

I'm not downplaying your problems, I want just to point out situation is not the same from country to country. In Germany and Austria your problems hardly exists, but Apple is still loosing market share there, so the reasons are different.

post #33 of 103
This delightful development demands that we ask the following:
How is your "thermonuclear war" going, Timmy?


SK FTW!
post #34 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

 

Great, you went to school for computer science and you "can" write both apps. Good for you. Now let me explain to you what is a "***" to cope with:

 

- while many people get shivers even seeing square brackets of Objective C comparing to Java it it still a C language. We do project that incorporate C and C++ externals and we can use it with 0 effort, without NDK and any problems that can come around corner. And they do, as much as simple as it may sound

- Objective C being hard to learn is a myth, has nothing to do with reality, it is already the 3rd used language...

- Xcode is limited IDE in terms of languages supported, but extremely well suited for iOS and OS X development, much more than Eclipse with SDK for Android

- generally Xcode is faster to work with, easier to maintain

- while testing on Android makes almost 0 effort, it takes much more effort to make apps secure

- I have very exact Simulators for every iOS model. How does that look like on Android SDK?

- integration of simulator and IDE gives a lot of small, but very useful features you don't even count with unless very much needed as easy location spoofing and stuff..

- wanna see how much time is spent on android on screen size fragmentation alone? Imagine I make easily the same app for 10 and 8" iPad, what is my colleague doing when supporting Galaxy Tab 2 and Nexus 7 with same app?

- fragmentation of hardware has caused us to select only some android hardware to support it happened many times problems occurred in the middle of product cycle, like the last one with Nexus's crapy front camera...

- ...

 

I could go on here far further, because this is just a glimpse of reality. The fact you selected one single irrelevant point from the whole story speaks for yourself. Speaks about dogmatic immaturity, like finding some needle in haystack just to oppose. You are young and have time to grow and learn beyond "can". Because you will have to, to survive, since you are not genius as I am not. We wouldn't post here if we were...

Well, when I was 8, I learned Cobal.  My father thought it was fun because I had to keep running to the computer with a punch card.  Lots of fond, extremely vague memories.

 

When I was nine I learned Pascal.  Not so much of a sentimental memory there.  Just my father teaching me.

 

When I was ten I learned Basic.  Honestly, still no real memories other than the programming that I remember.  I got my dad a beer a few times, which he called "drinks" back then.

 

When I was twelve I learned "C".  At this point they all seemed to be the same, just different wordings.  I also learned BW-Basic, and CBasic.

 

When I was 13 I learned Post Script and Objective C.

 

Between 14 and 18 dear old dad made me learn C++, Turbo Pascal and Object Pascal.  I didn't really want to be with dad at this time.  Odd when I look back...

 

Then I went to school, and just about everything since then has been a derivative of one of those languages.

 

While you speak to me as immature, that is totally possible.  I wasn't looking for a needle in a hey stack.  If you want I'll comb further.  I'm also not learned as I should be.  However when I ask a question I usually get a berating answer, or I get labeled as a troll in response to my question or opinion.

 

I'll not post to your genius part, that just rude.

 

My OPINION still stands.  It's incrementally easier to develop for Android than it is for iOS.  I'm amazed I actually have to spell this out on this site.

 

Also, for your information, I did not go into any computer field after school.

 

Eclipse does actually support Vector based graphical drawings.  Honestly, Android is actually easier to write for, but graphically it's not going to look the same.  I have no graphic skill.  Vector based is easier than pixel based.  So I could make a bare bones app that will work on Android and will be stretched along different displays.  On iOS it would just look horrible.  Honestly I've never tried to sell an app, but I have quite a few really good ideas!  :)

 

Just haven't gotten there and I don't have the monetary need.


Edited by Vadania - 6/26/13 at 1:40am
post #35 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Well, when I was 8, I learned Cobal.  My father thought it was fun because I had to keep running to the computer with a punch card.  Lots of fond, extremely vague memories.

 

When I was nine I learned Pascal.  Not so much of a sentimental memory there.  Just my father teaching me.

 

When I was ten I learned Basic.  Honestly, still no real memories other than the programming that I remember.  I got my dad a beer a few times, which he called "drinks" back then.

 

When I was twelve I learned "C".  At this point they all seemed to be the same, just different wordings.  I also learned BW-Basic, and CBasic.

 

When I was 13 I learned Post Script and Objective C.

 

Between 14 and 18 dear old dad made me learn C++, Turbo Pascal and Object Pascal.  I didn't really want to be with dad at this time.  Odd when I look back...

 

Then I went to school, and just about everything since then has been a derivative of one of those languages.

 

While you speak to me as immature, that is totally possible.  I wasn't looking for a needle in a hey stack.  If you want I'll comb further.  I'm also not learned as I should be.  However when I ask a question I usually get a berating answer, or I get labeled as a troll in response to my question or opinion.

 

I'll not post to your genius part, that just rude.

 

My OPINION still stands.  It's incrementally easier to develop for Android than it is for iOS.  I'm amazed I actually have to spell this out on this site.

 

Also, for your information, I did not go into any computer field after school.

 

Your language count is load of BS - i.e. proves nothing. There are few programmers who didn't start  programming in primary school. hell, I programmed 3 BASIC dialects then (Google for Sinclair ZX81, I started on it), Zilog Z80 and 6502. Changed to MC68000 and C in high school. I', still not a genius and I wonder what are you actually, if you find my finding you not being a genius as rude? :)  I suppose call people shill's is quite fine in your book? 

 

Your opinion is fine with me, I am challenging it with MY experience, backed up with arguments. However, your opinion is not backed up with anything. Furthermore, people who would oppose you are called Apple fanatics and idiots....This says it alll.

 

Improve your communication and behavior and rather exercise some humility and modesty. It is always a winner. Otherwise you my turn out as one Fandroid listing some 30 server base services and wrote that until iOS "can run those servers" he is considering it crap...or even worse, you may end up as shortest unskilled....

post #36 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Well, when I was 8, I learned Cobal.  My father thought it was fun because I had to keep running to the computer with a punch card.  Lots of fond, extremely vague memories.

 

When I was nine I learned Pascal.  Not so much of a sentimental memory there.  Just my father teaching me.

 

When I was ten I learned Basic.  Honestly, still no real memories other than the programming that I remember.  I got my dad a beer a few times, which he called "drinks" back then.

 

When I was twelve I learned "C".  At this point they all seemed to be the same, just different wordings.  I also learned BW-Basic, and CBasic.

 

When I was 13 I learned Post Script and Objective C.

 

Between 14 and 18 dear old dad made me learn C++, Turbo Pascal and Object Pascal.  I didn't really want to be with dad at this time.  Odd when I look back...

 

Then I went to school, and just about everything since then has been a derivative of one of those languages.

 

While you speak to me as immature, that is totally possible.  I wasn't looking for a needle in a hey stack.  If you want I'll comb further.  I'm also not learned as I should be.  However when I ask a question I usually get a berating answer, or I get labeled as a troll in response to my question or opinion.

 

I'll not post to your genius part, that just rude.

 

Also, for your information, I did not go into any computer field after school.

 

 

Just haven't gotten there and I don't have the monetary need.

 

Your opinion, not backed up by industry experience, is quite frankly worthless. He explained the difficulty of fragmentation, you're explaining how - in your subjective opinion - were you to ever produce My First App, it might be easier for you.

 

 

Quote:

 

 

Eclipse does actually support Vector based graphical drawings.  Honestly, Android is actually easier to write for, but graphically it's not going to look the same.  I have no graphic skill.  Vector based is easier than pixel based.  So I could make a bare bones app that will work on Android and will be stretched along different displays.  On iOS it would just look horrible.  Honestly I've never tried to sell an app, but I have quite a few really good ideas!  :)

 

 

 

 

 

( and you got that wrong too - modern Objective C uses auto layout and they are probably using borderless buttons to allow easy resizing. But you don't have to worry about display sizes so much on iOS).

 

 

And why would you think that on Appleinsider

 

 

Quote:
 It's incrementally easier to develop for Android than it is for iOS.  I'm amazed I actually have to spell this out on this site.

 

 
The general opinion is the opposite here, of couse.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #37 of 103

IDC estimates....yawn.  Is there anyway to validate if IDC's estimates are accurate?

post #38 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by belowFreeFifty View Post

This delightful development demands that we ask the following:
How is your "thermonuclear war" going, Timmy?


SK FTW!

Not to sound like my grandparents, but dude, can't you at least root for the home team? Rooting for Samsung is like rooting for corn syrup, it is in everything, it has no flavor, and ultimately, it is bad for you.
post #39 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

( and you got that wrong too - modern Objective C uses auto layout and they are probably using borderless buttons to allow easy resizing. But you don't have to worry about display sizes so much on iOS).

 

Have you used Autolayout much? My experience is that it's of limited use in iOS 6. It's incredibly CPU intensive.

post #40 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

This study confirms in my mind the reasoning behind a lower cost iPhone.

In the US its not needed but around the world Apple is in characteristically losing ground.

My hope at this point is that the low cost iPhone will be something groundbreaking. Not just the rumored iPhone 5 in a plastic shell.

I'm afraid it still won't stem the sales of "good enough" here in Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post


Nope. Totally wrong. Come to Europe and see what the vast majority of new phones especially with population that frequently buys new ones are. Apple is loosing share on its ground: so-called premium. Considering screen size to be killer feature over here, Apple holds remarkably high market share. Still. Reasons are other features and above all overall quality. Young people being the largest customer don't care so much about either: killer app in Europe is still messaging and every boy and girl will tell you that is easier to type on larger screen, and using Facebook as well.



 



I can also tell you how it feels on development: my team of iOS developers has grown from 4 to 5 in 2 years and Android team has grown from 0 to 7 in same period. OK, they have more crap to cope with, that is true. It is also true we have more work as before as well, but incomparably to Android team. Bottom line: Android gets used more an more. People buying those phones soon or a later start to use Google's services and get used to crappy interface. Majority of them will find impossible to go to iOS as it was for me impossible to go to Android. They are lost market, not for phones, let us forget about crappy phones once, but for services, for Apple account on Appstore and iTunes. Apple is talking so much about all this but do so little to make it mainstream success. There is only limited amount of money person will spend for such services. To enhance them you need more earning an those are possible with mass only beyond average dollar to be spend per person….



 



Times when young people just upgraded from iPod to iPhones are all but over. Most of the young people, new smartphone users from this year onward will not even know what the iPod is. They will not choose on legacy, they will also not choose on quality that much. They choose on variety, functionality and on what is hot today. Far East production of everything else has learned them to buy new stuff frequently and that quality is not the most important. 



 



Year 2013 will be lost year for Apple, known to profit in crises in saturation, they haven't had plan B to cope with 4" retina legacy, or better SJ legacy that brought problems to TC. If it would be for TC himself, he would have put through plan B in last year already, but he has a mentality to fight on other places. I think Apple brass is just not prepared or know how to be a mainstream company. For us, developers, that is a shame, for geeks this is yet another opportunity to fill their empty lives and stay cool in the shadow…



Great post poksi! More comments below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

cheaper iPhone in Europe will not be game changer alone. Market is splitting to 4" low(mid) cost phones and large screen premium. 

current (or past)           moving to
4" premium                 4.5"-5" premium
3.5-4" mid                   mostly stays the same on move to above (minority)
low cost and feature    3.5-4" mid or stays

4" premium is dying out similar to feature. If iPhone wouldn't be 4" premium, this class would be wiped out already....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Well... I'm not sure how to take your info.  You seem like a shill.  The European bit gives you and edge though.  I was in Europe recently, and I honestly noticed very few iPhones.  I did see a lot of iPads!

I agree that the larger screen sizes are nice, and I see them a lot in New England.  I do have a hard time understanding your build quality statements.  Unless they were purchased for them (the younger ones) then if I absolutely had to go with an Android phone it would almost certainly have to be the HTC1.  However I suppose if your parents are giving it to you then you get what you're given.

Then again, a close friend of mine is a bouncer at a very prominent night club here in New England and he said he very rarely notices Apple's phones.  Mostly large screen phones.

I'm kind of 50/50 on the subject.  But I do agree that the youth (strange to say that because I'm only 24) will have the biggest impact while voting with dollars.

Edit:  O.K. I re-read your post.  I did go to school for computer sciences (among many things) and I can write both an Android and an iPhone APP.  It's actually easier to write an Android APP so saying they (your developers) have more "***" to cope with is beyond reasonable so you're a shill.  Sorry!  I don't believe anything you said anymore.

No matter what the Apple fanatics say here, it is literally twice as time consuming to write a specific app for iOS than it is for Android.  The applications that are done right and actually LOOK good took at LEAST twice the amount of time.  Even if the fanatics say it's easier to write an iOS version...  They're just nuts!

Tallest!  This one deserves your... (humor?)

@Vadania - no. Poksi is no shill, and I concur with his very well written post of the situation here in Europe.

I don't recognize your name here, but just FYI I'm a so-called Apple Fanboy and proud of it. So stating these facts of the market situation here does not necessarily make me happy.

For many of the reasons that poksi wrote above, such as "texting, Facebook, and WhatsApp" being the primary usage of all mobiles in Europe, buying an iPhone at any "premium" price is not going to work.... regardless of the size screen. It's why I think that an inexpensive iPhone also won't do the trick and is unnecessary. The majority of people in Europe just don't use their mobiles like people in the States do. Including amazingly enough, that they could care less about the weather and many still prefer dedicated maps devices rather than Google Maps.

For the above people that I run across and that ask me, I suggest a middle of the road Android (like who cares... in my eyes they're all crap including the so-called "premiums"... but whatever) with a cheap PAYG no-contract SIM.

By saving them money, I then talk them into an iPad Mini or iPad for the times that they don't want to see and type on their little phone (which would include an iPhone as well).

The mobile market is saturated and unprofitable in the middle and bottom end. Whereas the top end with the current iPhone and any future iPhones will be purchased by those that want and need it's extended features, and for those things like apps to really work smoothly, fast and efficiently. Business users actually. Who BTW are my clients with iPhones. All of my clients have iPhones for just those reasons. Their kids and wife: Droids. it's cheaper and not a business expense write-off.

Apple's biggest future IMHO is pushing the iPad, in both software, features, capabilities and price-points.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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  • IDC: Apple's iPhone sheds European marketshare in Q1, pushed out of top 5 in India
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