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Windows 8 install base surpasses Vista, still trails all Mac OS X installs - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

"install base"?
Really?
 

Not grammatically correct...but it is the common software industry term used for "installed user base" for many years now.......techies are known to abbreviamicate and acronymize......and Mac is actually spelled macintosh

post #42 of 75

This article shows that (as usual) over 90% of web traffic is from MS Windows based computers and Windows 8 alone will soon have more users than all of Mac OSX combined, after just a few months. So what?

 

Are Mac OSX and Windows really that relevant to each other these days? Use whatever desktop OS suits your needs and get on with it.

post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

"Windows 8 install base surpasses Vista"

"install base"?
Really?
Really!?

Base ready to install. Click button to install.

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post #44 of 75

All your install base are belong to........nvm sorry :(

post #45 of 75
Quote:
Even 12 years after its release, 37.17 percent of computers are running Windows XP

 

That's because there is nothing compelling in the OS space that makes their email, internet, or games run quicker/better. There is no 'killer app' that requires an upgrade. Microsoft OS upgrades more often than not come with the need for a hardware upgrade. More and more people rather just buy a tablet. 

post #46 of 75

Hmmmm, that is interesting, because what I saw was that the number of enterprise users that are jumping aboard Windows 8 was a dismal .56%

 

Windows 8 install base is really misleading since they OEM it on new machines being bought today.

post #47 of 75

I don't think one can accurately determine the "install base" just from web usage statistics, especially for Windows. I would imagine that many of the older Windows machines are stuck doing mundane business or industrial tasks without the Internet. Things that come to mind are accounting employees who are not allowed to connect to the Internet. Industrial machinery control systems, weapons control systems, public utility control systems, transit control systems. Even if these older XP machines, or even newer ones, used in this manner are connecting to Internet they are not visiting sites with advertising that analysis companies use to calculate usage statistics.

 

Same goes for servers. Our data center which is the largest in Orange County is said to be 60% Windows and 40% Linux. There is only one guy that I know of there that has Macs and it is just one cabinet. None of those servers ever log into a webpage with stat collection running on it.


Edited by mstone - 7/1/13 at 3:18pm

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post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Win8 is sitting on PCs in Dell's warehouse and Best Buy's storage rooms. This survey is for web use.

Where's Mac OS X 10.5 in the chart?!

You nailed it. Uncle Fester announced that MS sold 60 million copies of Win8 in the first 30 days. Tow months later (while Win8 was still on sale) they announced they only sold another 40 million copies. So most of that 60 million must have gone to OEMs for computers to be built and sent out to retailers over the next 12 months (or more). 

 

Mac OS 10.5 is categorized under "other" as it powers the old G3 - G5 CPUs.

post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverhuh View Post

Hmmmm, that is interesting, because what I saw was that the number of enterprise users that are jumping aboard Windows 8 was a dismal .56%

 

Enterprise users are only now upgrading to Win7. It'll be a cold day in Redmond before enterprise will be doing another upgrade to Win8.

post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

That's because there is nothing compelling in the OS space that makes their email, internet, or games run quicker/better. There is no 'killer app' that requires an upgrade. Microsoft OS upgrades more often than not come with the need for a hardware upgrade. More and more people rather just buy a tablet   iPad. 

 

Fixed that for you. The iPad has proven to be the favorite tablet of commercial, institutional (schools) and government. In fact, the iPad is the ONLY approved tablet for the U.S. government going forward. 

post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Hey I installed 8.1 and it sucks just as much.

Windows 8.1 beta (?) was just released to developers. Are you a developer for Windows 8?. If not,  I would like know how did you got it?. Or this is just you talking trash?

post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think one can accurately determine the "install base" just from web usage statistics, especially for Windows. I would imagine that many of the older Windows machines are stuck doing mundane business or industrial tasks without the Internet. Things that come to mind are accounting employees who are not allowed to connect to the Internet. Industrial machinery control systems, weapons control systems, public utility control systems, transit control systems. Even if these older XP machines, or even newer ones, used in this manner are connecting to Internet they are not visiting sites with advertising that analysis companies use to calculate usage statistics.

Same goes for servers. Our data center which is the largest in Orange County is said to be 60% Windows and 40% Linux. There is only one guy that I know of there that has Macs and it is just one cabinet. None of those servers ever log into a webpage with stat collection running on it.

I thought you would argue that all of the firms that gather web usage stats by OS were wrong because they don't know how to read the user-agent string, thereby over counting Macs. 1wink.gif Now you are arguing that Windows is under counted because Windows Servers in data centers don't surf the web... Yeah well Windows 8 is not a server OS, and Microsoft doesn't license it for server use. The article is about Windows 8.

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post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


Isn't "internet" supposed to be capitalized too?


The iPad auto-correction capitalizes it so it must be so.

post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I thought you would argue that all of the firms that gather web usage stats by OS were wrong because they don't know how to read the user-agent string, thereby over counting Macs. 1wink.gif Now you are arguing that Windows is under counted because Windows Servers in data centers don't surf the web... Yeah well Windows 8 is not a server OS, and Microsoft doesn't license it for server use. The article is about Windows 8.

Since when has a DED article or the comments ever been just about what the title says?

 

There are plenty of mentions of XP in the article and the comments which was what my initial  reply was in regard to, My second comment was about servers and true there was no mention in the article about servers but it supports my primary opinion that browser based stats are extremely inaccurate because there are so many different usage scenarios. It is highly unscientific to use just web browsing to draw conclusions about total install base as the stats discrepancy between iPhone and Android also demonstrates. These analytics companies can only count the crappy websites that use their lame software. You'll never see any such statistics from any of the big players like Google Analytics or Omniture or stats from Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, Doubleclick, or Twitter because they keep their stuff totally private. I compare my own stats to the ones that get mentioned here and they are always off one way or the other by a large margin.

 

Another example is just to examine my own personal browsing habits. I do 90% of my web surfing on my iMac. I own a MBP, a couple iPads, an iPhone and a Mac Pro. If the survey sample rate were reduced to just people like me, one would make the assumption that iMacs out sell all other Apple device by 90%.


Edited by mstone - 7/1/13 at 5:05pm

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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Fixed that for you. The iPad has proven to be the favorite tablet of commercial, institutional (schools) and government. In fact, the iPad is the ONLY approved tablet for the U.S. government going forward. 

A link would be nice. Quick googling for "US government approved tablet" shows links with RIM's PlayBook, something called Samsung Knox (?!?)... but nothing to point out exclusivity you are talking about.

In addition, since most government agencies are Microsoft licensees... do you really think that Windows tablets will not leak significantly into official circles? All those business oriented tablets that have started emerging in the last 6 months or so, like ThinkPad Tablet 2, HP ElitePad 900..?

Looking at the interest they are generating among our customers, I'd really be surprised if that does not happen.
post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


A link would be nice. Quick googling for "US government approved tablet" shows links with RIM's PlayBook, something called Samsung Knox (?!?)... but nothing to point out exclusivity you are talking about.

In addition, since most government agencies are Microsoft licensees... do you really think that Windows tablets will not leak significantly into official circles? All those business oriented tablets that have started emerging in the last 6 months or so, like ThinkPad Tablet 2, HP ElitePad 900..?

Looking at the interest they are generating among our customers, I'd really be surprised if that does not happen.

 

As a contractor for a major financial firm in CA, I saw one Android  (I believe) tablet, while everyone else had iPads. when we did QA it was only on iPads

post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls View Post

Windows 8.1 beta (?) was just released to developers. Are you a developer for Windows 8?. If not,  I would like know how did you got it?. Or this is just you talking trash?

8.1 Preview is available for DL.

It does not change too much, IMHO... but to my surprise, some of the most vocal opponents of W8 seem to be quite tolerant toward W8.1, at least from what I've seen in AnandTech discussions. Secrets of human mind, eh?

Most of the things at a first glance are tweaks:

Same background for Start screen and desktop, creating illusion that tiles are appearing on actual desktop. This eliminated bipolar nature of Start and desktop screens in terms of visual presentation, but hasn't changed underlying mechanics.

Added button to switch between favourites and all apps on Start screen. Previously you had to right-click for button-bar and then left-click on all apps button. Not major, but fine tweak.

Start button on desktop. In combination with shared wallpaper between desktop and Start screen, it blurs separation between GUIs and does give a more uniform presentation, but like I said, it is only re visuals - you are still dealing with two GUIs.

More options in right-click-on-left-corner menu. Among others, Shut Down/Sleep is added, so you don't have to go for CTRL+ALT+DEL or open charms and click on Settings to shut down your PC.

You should be able to open more than 2 apps on Modern screen, though they still open in full screen height columns. Haven't tried this yet, don't know if you can at least change column width arbitrary or is it still 1/3 of the screen steps.

All in all, it is basically service pack - at the first glance, that is. But it seems it will be welcomed by many.
post #58 of 75
More people use .6 than .7?

Shouldn't they compare the newest osx with the newest windows op?
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


All in all, it is basically service pack - at the first glance, that is. But it seems it will be welcomed by many.

 

Given that it will be free to all windows 8 users, it is basically a service pack.

post #60 of 75
Windows 8 running on a tablet would be in these stats, so why isn't the iPad in there?
post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


It's not separating 8 from 8.1.

Also, how many Macs are running a 12 year old OS?

Does Classic OS 9 count?

We still have a single FileMaker 4 database running on a G5 with 10.4 that has Classic mode.

 

Don't ask me why it was never upgraded. 1oyvey.gif

 

And I have encountered many installations that use Quark 4.1 with extensions that obviously require OS 9 that are still in operation.

post #62 of 75
I don't understand the whole point of market comparisons like this. It's meaningless.

The bottom line is SALES and continued SALES and customer satisfaction.
Microsoft has been leading the way for a LONG time, but not any more. Apple are making money and money that will help them continue on for many years.
Microsoft have been trying with products like Surface, but I doubt this will ever keep up with iPads.

There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.

Even now, iOS is being picked up as a standard OS for mobile computing, sure, there will always be alternatives, but it seems to be the way things are going. My only wish is that this SHOULD have happened with Mac OS years ago...
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post


There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
 

Actually, the opposite is probably more realistic. The reason XP is still around in such great numbers is that when patched and updated, it runs Office just fine and Adobe CS just fine, not to mention all the legacy custom applications for accounting and network management and Windows VPN/Open Directory. If XP was obsolete, corporate IT departments would be abandoning it but they are not. They like it. Many are moving to Win 7 because it is very much like XP and works well in their environment. Win 8 is probably not going to be very popular with corporate IT. 

 

Apple fan boys are delusional if they think that Windows is becoming obsolete. Granted Microsoft has not been selling as many copies of their latest version as they want but that is partially due to the stability and ubiquitous nature of XP. They are in some sense a victim of their own success.

 

Sure there are many corporate users integrating iPads into their communication and browsing routine and Windows tablets are not likely to ever catch on, but it is not at the expense of Windows, it is just an increase in alternatives. No one is throwing out their desktop computer or notebook and going exclusively with iPad. At least not in the corporate world. I do know a number of lame corporate middle management types who can't use an iPad any better than they could use a regular computer but those people are just idiots. Technically competent users will not toss out their regular computer and turn exclusively to an iPad. No way. iPad just doesn't match up because it doesn't run Office or Acrobat Pro, the two main tools for corporations and it doesn't print to large networked enterprise multi-function printers.

 

I have no dog in this race though. I have been using Mac almost exclusively ever since they came out and although on rare occasions I need to use Windows, I have mostly been coexisting for decades in a Windows based environment using only Macs. I by no means depend on Windows like I do OS X and the only other OS I run in any significant number is Linux for my servers. I'm just making observations based on a close working relationship with a few typical large global corporations that are pretty much 100% Windows, at least for the workers in the cubicles. If they are on the road then iPads make sense but mostly just for trivial messaging not really that much use for important document creation.


Edited by mstone - 7/1/13 at 8:42pm

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post #64 of 75
Well in 10 years maybe windows and back will be opposite, but all combined 5% of total PC market?
post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

As a contractor for a major financial firm in CA, I saw one Android  (I believe) tablet, while everyone else had iPads. when we did QA it was only on iPads

I am not denying popularity of iPad, it is perfectly obvious.

But previous poster stated that "the iPad is the ONLY approved tablet for the U.S. government going forward". I'd be curious to see that article, if it exists. Considering that Windows is dominant OS among government institutions, I'm finding it hard to believe that Windows tablets are not approved in the climate where Windows desktops and laptops are majority, and Windows infrastructure and services are de facto standard... especially business tablets with docking options, TPM and other business-friendly features.
post #66 of 75
I think this OS debate is "mute" for a number of reasons.

  • 1) for all OS X versions, you "must*" own a Mac;
  • 2) for OS X AND Windows XP, many enterprise, corporate, scientific and research instutions have specialized software, or software that will never see updates that will work efficiently on any new OS. Basically, those users are stuck using old OS versions. I have a number of clients in this situation with OS X 10.6 (Rosetta apps).
  • 3) from what I can determine on both platforms, other than game titles, the Mac dev community is becoming not only larger, but coming out with more polished apps than what is available on Windows. The Windows dev community has largely stagnated, other than those dev'ing for enterprise/research/scientific apps.
  • 4) Office apps and old Office versions being "good enough", or a specific office/industry workflow not needing any of the new bells and whistles to financially justify (ROI) an upgrade. That type of scenario does not make or even contribute to the Windows platform going forward... so why cater to them?

Going back to point 1, to make this a fair comparison, I think it would be interesting to see:

  • 1) a breakdown of the individual OEMs sales to Macs;
  • 2) what is the install(ation) base across an OEM's product line;
  • 3) and how much recurring revenue an OEM has seen based on that installed user base.

All metrics point to Apple having the lead with all of the above considered... AND most importantly... a far brighter future than most analysts give them credit for these days.

HP and Dell do not want to continue selling consumer PCs for a very good reason me thinks.... 1smoking.gif

* I'm not forgetting "Hackintosh". But I really don't think it's relevant.
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post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


It's not separating 8 from 8.1.

Also, how many Macs are running a 12 year old OS?

 

My Powerbook 100 has Mac OS 7.5.5 and I still use it.

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post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


A link would be nice. Quick googling for "US government approved tablet" shows links with RIM's PlayBook, something called Samsung Knox (?!?)... but nothing to point out exclusivity you are talking about.

In addition, since most government agencies are Microsoft licensees... do you really think that Windows tablets will not leak significantly into official circles? All those business oriented tablets that have started emerging in the last 6 months or so, like ThinkPad Tablet 2, HP ElitePad 900..?

Looking at the interest they are generating among our customers, I'd really be surprised if that does not happen.


I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.

 

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post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Someone isn't using accurate numbers.

Tim Cook mentioned that Apple has 72 Million users in the install base. So if Microsoft sold 100 Million copies...

 

One small problem: Microsoft said they sold 100 Million copies of an OS license that includes "downgrade rights", which in turn means that even if their numbers were accurate (most of those "100 Million" were bulk OEM and SA/EA keys BTW), it makes zero mention of how those keys were put to use as Windows 8 installs, Windows 7, XP, or what.

 

You see, to Microsoft, they all count as W8 sales, but in practice, they could end up being anything, going back to Windows 2000. 

post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.

 

 

Given that there's no probably specialized app per se for trading on the floor, I guess they're pretty much stuck with using what they have to.

post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post

There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
 

 

Nah, it means that there will be an increasing need for tech. support companies who specialize in maintaining legacy systems.  Mission-critical computers will fail and need to be replaced with something that runs the validated, existing software for which there is no replacement.  Believe it or not, not every computer is used to run MS Office.  The ancient systems (from the 1950s) running our air-traffic control systems comes to mind.  

post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think one can accurately determine the "install base" just from web usage statistics, especially for Windows. I would imagine that many of the older Windows machines are stuck doing mundane business or industrial tasks without the Internet. Things that come to mind are accounting employees who are not allowed to connect to the Internet. Industrial machinery control systems, weapons control systems, public utility control systems, transit control systems. Even if these older XP machines, or even newer ones, used in this manner are connecting to Internet they are not visiting sites with advertising that analysis companies use to calculate usage statistics.

An excellent point.  And yet, the XP system running my scientific instrument continues to badger me to download drivers and run a music player wizard whenever I plug in a new USB storage device--despite the fact that it will never be allowed on the Interweb.  Another Windows 7 Pro device is constantly warning me about installing virus updates, even though it will never be allowed on the LAN.  Such a nuisance!  These computers have one job: to run the instrument without interruption.  The last thing I want is for it to pause my experimental run while it spontaneously decides to download yet another upgrade to some irrelevant Adobe nagware.

post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

An excellent point.  And yet, the XP system running my scientific instrument continues to badger me to download drivers and run a music player wizard whenever I plug in a new USB storage device--despite the fact that it will never be allowed on the Interweb.  Another Windows 7 Pro device is constantly warning me about installing virus updates, even though it will never be allowed on the LAN.  Such a nuisance!  These computers have one job: to run the instrument without interruption.  The last thing I want is for it to pause my experimental run while it spontaneously decides to download yet another upgrade to some irrelevant Adobe nagware.

You do know that you can turn off all system messages. A simple and obvious Google search, "turn off system messages in Windows" would have solved your problem in minutes. I guess it's just easier to leave your nuisances alone and then complain about them on boards.

Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.

Sorry for being so abrupt but you have to admit that this is a pretty silly complaint. It would be like complaining to your waiter that your salad came with a cherry tomato when you could have just as easily taken off the tomato.
Edited by Relic - 7/4/13 at 4:06am
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post #74 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls View Post

Windows 8.1 beta (?) was just released to developers. Are you a developer for Windows 8?. If not,  I would like know how did you got it?. Or this is just you talking trash?

To be fair, anyone who signed up for the Windows 8 previews received an invitation to sign up for 8.1 testing, though they have since closed it to new testers.
post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.

 

And the MSFT fanboy choir says that Linux is oh-so-hard to work on...

 

Here's a clue: One shouldn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time de-nagging an OS. It's a waste of time and productivity.

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