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More pictures of purported 'iPhone Lite' shell surface with new blue color - Page 4

post #121 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I agree except for the price point.  $400-$450 is waaaay too much.  

 

There's not much point in taking the superb iPhone 5, cheapening it up like a cheap whore, and then selling it for only slightly less.  It has to be significantly cheaper to drive sales.  

 

I mean how do you sell that?  "It looks bargain basement and it has lesser capabilities but it's (slightly) cheaper?"  Why would anyone buy that?  Also, the whole point is to get more people to walk into an Apple store and pick one up off-contract.  The price has to be something that someone would go for off-contract, not something that would be slightly cheaper on-contract. 

 

$299 or it isn't worth the trouble.  

$200 if they can do it. 

 

 

$299 is wishful thinking at best, and $200 is not going to happen.

 

How is an iPhone Lite supposed to come in under the price of an iPod Touch when a phone has far more complex silicon?

 

Adding cellular support to any iPad adds $130 to the price.

 

The cheapest iTouch is currently $229 sans rear camera. Add the camera and plastics and you probably end up with a $250 device. Add your cellular radio which we know is a $130 mark up and suddenly you have a $380 phone. And that's with recycled 4S guts. But now you need LTE capability because Apple would have to be on crack to launch a new non-LTE cellular device, and Apple doesn't make products for "Africa and India". That puts in the $400-450 range which is $200 less than an iPhone 5, and $100 less than a 4S, only get you get a larger 4" screen and LTE.

 

More importantly, with a cheaper and familiar model, it frees Apple to go balls to the wall with iPhone 6 and really pioneer new territory and technology.

 

Also, the cheaper model will just be "iPhone" and flagship models will be 5S, 6, 6S, 7, etc etc.

post #122 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

So are you suggesting they keep it intact with the expensive return prone aluminum case and sell it at a discount now that the iPhone 4 4s is discontinued? What other options are there?

They keep it intact with the premium highest customer satisfaction aluminum case.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #123 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

The Apple logo is a flat black and there is no FCC or "designed by Apple" text.

Perhaps because it's Design by Faker in China.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #124 of 155

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

[...] this cheaper model would enable many of those people to finally join the premiere ecosystem on the planet and step up from the miserable existence that they currently find themselves in. I'm looking at you Fandroids and other people who are not Fandroids, but simply ended up with a crappy Android phone because it was cheap. Many of those people are surely regretting their decision.

 

I think you overestimate the expectations of the average smartphone buyer. We tend to assume that everyone must surely appreciate the subtle conveniences and premium features of iOS, but many just don't really care. They don't see themselves using things like AirPlay and FaceTime. They see Siri as a cute gimmick but not really necessary. They use Windows and Gmail or Hotmail so device sync doesn't have much value for them. Heck, most of the iPhone owners I know rarely if ever take advantage of anything more than cloud sync.

 

The point of that being I don't think most Android buyers DO regret their choice. They're able to do the things they want just fine. Their expectations are modest.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Who would buy a cheap, crappy Android phone if the alternative is a budget version of an iPhone?

 

[A] Those who want a big screen.

 

[B] The people I described above when dealing with a salesperson who gets a spiff on every slow-selling unit sold.

 

 

You, other AI forum members and I appreciate the value of both the iPhone and iOS, but I don't think we're "typical" phone shoppers. I think a less-expensive iPhone is probably a good idea, but I don't think it'll get a free ride. There will still be those who choose an Android device for reasons that we wouldn't, and one that some of us WOULD: a larger, wider screen.

post #125 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Anyone thinking Apple will announce a larger screen iPhone this fall I think will be disappointed.

 

I think you're right.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Or are we supposed to believe Apple solved for these trade off issues between when Cook made those comments at D11 and Sept/Oct when the new phone comes out?

 

Some of us don't believe those supposed trade-offs actually exist, so no time is required to "overcome" them.

 

 

That doesn't mean I think they'll release a bigger screen this year though. It is exactly because they won't that Cook had to come up with all that nonsense as an excuse.

post #126 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Anyone thinking Apple will announce a larger screen iPhone this fall I think will be disappointed.

Here's what Tim Cook said at Apple's last earnings call:
And at D11
Putting aside whether Tim Cook is right about these "tradeoffs" would he have made these comments in April and May if Apple was planning to release a 4.5" - 5" phone this fall? Or are we supposed to believe Apple solved for these trade off issues between when Cook made those comments at D11 and Sept/Oct when the new phone comes out? Of course I know Apple in the past has shot something down that they later embraced. But have they done it in the same year? I personally think Apple will get one more cycle out of the 5 design and we may see a larger phone in 2014. Also I'm sure there's something iOS 7 related that Apple is saving for the phone launch this fall.

The thing is that Tim Cook's arguments were misleading. Many (but not all) of the issues he mentioned had nothing to do with screen size. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Some of us don't believe those supposed trade-offs actually exist, so no time is required to "overcome" them.

It's not a matter of belief. It's a fact.

post #127 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

This year could mark the year that Apple switches to the same model as all of it's other products and stops the numbering altogether.  Each year the iPhone and the iPhone Pro would be updated just like the MacBook and the MacBook pro. [...] the only thing with numbers is the OS, and the phones are designated by production dates instead, just like all the other stuff they make. There is no iPhone 6, 7, etc. in this scenario and never will be. 

 

I *HATE* that practice! Tracking down a model by production date is a PITA. I bought my MacBook Pro is 2009. Does that mean it's a 2009 model? Or is it a "Late 2008?" It's a bloody nuisance. If they won't number them I would sure appreciate at least making the model number more prominent and using THAT as the designator.

post #128 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Doesn't look so bad based on the renders that Mac Rumors did:

 

 

 

Those renders show metallic colors. The photos don't. That makes a pretty significant difference to their "attractiveness."

post #129 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It's not a matter of belief. It's a fact.

 

No, it isn't a "fact." There's no way to prove a negative, so it by very definition can not BE a fact. Then there's the issue of his listed criteria being subjective and it's impossible to qualify.

 

I stand by my assertion that Apple absolutely COULD build a larger screen iPhone that meets the criteria Cook listed. They obviously CHOOSE not to and that's fine, but the reasons he listed are pure peeper wool. My guess (and that's all it is) would be that Apple doesn't want to complicate the developer landscape and they're waiting to see if the whole big-screen fad just blows over.

post #130 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

No, it isn't a "fact." There's no way to prove a negative, so it by very definition can not BE a fact. Then there's the issue of his listed criteria being subjective and it's impossible to qualify.

That is categorically false. There is no way to prove some negatives. But others are proven daily. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I stand by my assertion that Apple absolutely COULD build a larger screen iPhone that meets the criteria Cook listed. They obviously CHOOSE not to and that's fine, but the reasons he listed are pure peeper wool. My guess (and that's all it is) would be that Apple doesn't want to complicate the developer landscape and they're waiting to see if the whole big-screen fad just blows over.

 

 

I didn't disagree with you on that. WTF are you talking about?

post #131 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Not entirely.  

- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination,  "tacky."  
- black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs. 

The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.  
I would like a direct link or sited quotation to that theory. I am a designer and have never heard such a thing. Even trying to remember back to color theory courses. Regardless, I still hold this as a matter of opinion.
post #132 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

No, it isn't a "fact."

Of course it is. Or can you explain to use how there magically aren't tradeoffs in phones that cost less than other phones? Or phones that are larger than other phones? 1oyvey.gif

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #133 of 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Not entirely.  

- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination,  "tacky."  
black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs. 

The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.  
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


I would like a direct link or sited quotation to that theory. I am a designer and have never heard such a thing. Even trying to remember back to color theory courses. Regardless, I still hold this as a matter of opinion.

Me too. I'd love to see a credible reference for this.

post #134 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

indeed.  They could used super LCD or IGZO. IGZO is by far the best tech, if they ever used it.  I am being convinced the new iOS 7 look may be a way to avoid getting duplicated by android, since a lot of android phones are on oled and amoled.

Isn't yield and/or price the current limiting factor(s) for IGZO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post
I think it will shift to 32GB, 64GB and 128GB capacities.

From your keyboard to the powers that be!!  1cool.gif

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #135 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I didn't disagree with you on that. WTF are you talking about?

 

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were calling Cook's claim of insurmountable trade-offs a "fact." I get what you meant now.

post #136 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Of course it is. Or can you explain to use how there magically aren't tradeoffs in phones that cost less than other phones? Or phones that are larger than other phones? 1oyvey.gif

 

What I said is that it's not a "fact" that Apple can't build a bigger screen phone that meets the criteria Cook outlined. As it turns out, I misunderstood what stelligent meant so there was actually no claim of that even BEING a "fact" in the first place!

post #137 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were calling Cook's claim of insurmountable trade-offs a "fact." I get what you meant now.

It is a fact that some of alleged tradeoffs are NOT such. While trying to be concise, I was not precise.

 

But it doesn't matter. I won't hold Cook to his comments. He is closer to the going-ons in his company than most CEOs. He stays close to what he knows best most of the time, allowing others to talk about topics not within his expertise. For example, neither Meg Whitman nor Michael Dell can list the key design features of a server the way Cook can rhyme off resolution, color quality, white balance, etc. So I am willing to give him some slack, particularly since I prefer to see Apple stay with a single flagship design. Principles over market share. Great companies do not prioritize shareholder value over the really important things.


Edited by stelligent - 7/5/13 at 4:36am
post #138 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


They keep it intact with the premium highest customer satisfaction aluminum case.


If Apple did keep making the iPhone 5 and sold it at a discount when the 5s is released, then Tim Cook does deserve to be fired and Apple would face certain extinction. Not going to happen. The Aluminum case 5 is done and for good reason.

post #139 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post


If Apple did keep making the iPhone 5 and sold it at a discount when the 5s is released, then Tim Cook does deserve to be fired and Apple would face certain extinction. Not going to happen. The Aluminum case 5 is done and for good reason.

I hope you're not disappointed that the 5S will have the exact same aluminum case
post #140 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


I hope you're not disappointed that the 5S will have the exact same aluminum case

 

 

Of course not. It is a certainty. I Iove the aluminum case. But it is also a certainty the aluminum 5 is gone after the 5s hits.

post #141 of 155

Looks like the iPhordable alright.......... totally makes sense as they are trying to get more marketshare in china..... that is the next big market to conquer.... usa sales are important, but only until china takes off.

post #142 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post


Of course not. It is a certainty. I Iove the aluminum case. But it is also a certainty the aluminum 5 is gone after the 5s hits.

Nope. It would not make any sense.
post #143 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

I don't get the bad reactions to these cases. They look fine, and will look better when you remove the protective plastic wrap which you see bubbling in the photo. Plenty of people like color, and many would prefer the less easily damaged plastic. These will be great for kids or careless adults. Premium materials will still be available in the flagship model.

 

My only comment is to recall a line from a movie referencing the color of a car: "I didn't know they made these in banana."


The reaction is negative because many of the big Apple supporters on this site said the following:

 

  • Apple will NEVER use plastic; and
  • Apple will NEVER sully their brand by putting out a budget phone

 

These people are angry because they are wrong yet again and people with big egos do not like to be publicly humiliated when they think they are SMEs when in fact they are nowhere close to being that.

post #144 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

I don't get the bad reactions to these cases. They look fine, and will look better when you remove the protective plastic wrap which you see bubbling in the photo. Plenty of people like color, and many would prefer the less easily damaged plastic. These will be great for kids or careless adults. Premium materials will still be available in the flagship model.

 

My only comment is to recall a line from a movie referencing the color of a car: "I didn't know they made these in banana."

 

Human emotions are hard to rationalize. I'd say that plastic, or polycarbonate to be exact, scratches relatively easily too but the "damage" is less visible.

 

I'm more interested in what else differentiates the iPhone 5S and the rumored iPhone Lite. It can't just be a difference in material. Is the Lite going to be the iPhone 4S with a larger screen? Is it going to be iPod Touch with 3G or LTE chipset added?

post #145 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Is the Lite going to be the iPhone 4S with a larger screen? Is it going to be iPod Touch with 3G or LTE chipset added?

4S with LTE and 4" Retina (aka 5th Gen ipod touch) Maybe even a 5 in a new body. Neither would surprise me, with the latter being less likely.
post #146 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Human emotions are hard to rationalize. I'd say that plastic, or polycarbonate to be exact, scratches relatively easily too but the "damage" is less visible.

I'm more interested in what else differentiates the iPhone 5S and the rumored iPhone Lite. It can't just be a difference in material. Is the Lite going to be the iPhone 4S with a larger screen? Is it going to be iPod Touch with 3G or LTE chipset added?

If it has a retina display I would assume it would be an iPod touch with LTE.

A5
5 megapixel camera
8GB storage
Colored aluminum body
LTE
$349
post #147 of 155
Strange video posted here:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/06/video-claims-to-show-budget-iphone/

It claims that this is what the budget phone will look like but there's an Android knock-off at the end built with a similar enclosure. If they can build an Android one, they can build the iPhone one too so maybe this is another one of those manufacturers that do custom back cases.

The colors do look similar to the iPod line:

http://www.apple.com/ipod-touch/

but it would be better if they used those metal casings. A budget iPhone only really needs to be an iPod Touch with a sim card. That may involve a bigger battery but as little extra cost as possible. The iPod Touch is $299 so adding a sim card and bigger battery shouldn't be much more expensive. Of course there's the signal issue to consider and while the wifi goes out the plastic bit on the iPod, that may not be ok to do on the phone. If it works ok and gets approval, I'd rather they used the metal casing than go back to plastic. It would potentially leave a large price gap between low-end and high-end but it would be good if the high-end one dropped to $550.

That could even allow them to discontinue the iPod Touch line if they wanted. When it doesn't have a sim card, it just behaves like an iPod with a long battery life.
post #148 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

A budget iPhone only really needs to be an iPod Touch with a sim card. That may involve a bigger battery but as little extra cost as possible. 

 

An iPod touch would require much more than just a SIM card to become an iPhone.  At the least, it would need a broadband chip, RF power amps, RF filters, and a couple of antennas.  Plus SEP royalties.

 

If it was an GSM/CDMA/LTE compatible chipset, we're talking adding about $100 in costs.

 

Thus let's assume instead it will only be made for the plain GSM/UMTS world.  That helps a lot.  Since Apple doesn't do cross-licensing, but they'll benefit from having a lower priced unit for FRAND payments, about...

 

+$20 - GSM/UMTS chip, RF sections, antennas, SIM socket

+$20 - additional license fees to Qualcomm, Nokia, et al.  Maybe less.  Maybe more.

 

So, add maybe $40 in cellular costs.  Oh yeah, plus the bigger battery that you mentioned.  However, they could take off another $5 if using a plastic case, perhaps.  Easier to build, too.

 

That would bring a touch's BOM and license and manufacturing up to, oh say, about $180.  Since Apple likes making about 50% in gross margin, that puts the street price at $360.   Maybe they could drop the sapphire lens for the camera as well, do a lesser MP camera, drop the front camera, plus some other savings and/or take less margin.

post #149 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post


That would bring a touch's BOM and license and manufacturing up to, oh say, about $180.  Since Apple likes making about 50% in gross margin, that puts the street price at $360.   Maybe they could drop the sapphire lens for the camera as well, do a lesser MP camera, drop the front camera, plus some other savings and/or take less margin.
I think Apple can live with this price.
post #150 of 155
Don't forget, the iPod touch has a cheaper screen, compared to the iPhone.
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
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post #151 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Don't forget, the iPod touch has a cheaper screen, compared to the iPhone.

I don't think it does anymore. I could be wrong but Apple brought the iPod touches screen up to iPhone levels with IPS last year.
post #152 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Don't forget, the iPod touch has a cheaper screen, compared to the iPhone.

I don't think it does anymore. I could be wrong but Apple brought the iPod touches screen up to iPhone levels with IPS last year.

Didn't know that, thanks.
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post #153 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I don't think it does anymore. I could be wrong but Apple brought the iPod touches screen up to iPhone levels with IPS last year.

 

Yep, you're right.  I just bought my daughter an iPod touch 5G a few weeks ago, and all the reviews say it has the same 4" IPS screen as the iPhone 5.

 

Or maybe not.  Ifixit's teardown said this:

 

"When comparing the Touch to the iPhone 5 display assembly, it's apparent that this is a much simpler, cheaper design, despite the two having very similar functionality."

 

Perhaps it's just thinner, since everything about the iPod touch 5G is incredibly thin.  But if it is less expensive, that's one more way to save costs on an equivalent looking but cheaper phone.

 

--

 

One neat feature it has, that I think should go on world iPhones, is its built-in pop-up loop holder.  Can be used to attach a strap, or charms.

post #154 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Yep, you're right.  I just bought my daughter an iPod touch 5G a few weeks ago, and all the reviews say it has the same 4" IPS screen as the iPhone 5.

Or maybe not.  Ifixit's teardown said this:

"When comparing the Touch to the iPhone 5 display assembly, it's apparent that this is a much simpler, cheaper design, despite the two having very similar functionality."

Perhaps it's just thinner, since everything about the iPod touch 5G is incredibly thin.  But if it is less expensive, that's one more way to save costs on an equivalent looking but cheaper phone.

--

One neat feature it has, that I think should go on world iPhones, is its built-in pop-up loop holder.  Can be used to attach a strap, or charms.

Very interesting.

I'm convinced the cheaper iPhone will be built with iPod touch components even if its not in the exact same aluminum case.

Using the iPod Touch as a base and using 8GB of flash storage for an entry level model should get the price down below $400 easy and I believe they could do that even with a primarily aluminum case.
post #155 of 155
the cheap iphone will be a better phone then Samsung's plastic junk
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