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Security flaw opens all modern Android devices to "zombie botnet" takeover [u] - Page 6

post #201 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Admit it Relic, you don't know the difference between a Mac virus and a Windows 95 virus.  Just like I think Android is Unix.  lol.gif

DroidFTW, you were the one that said the BOTH Android and IOS were Unix.  But you are wrong.  Your English wasn't very good and I'm not going to read into what you say when you make a simple statement like that.  Yeah, I know Android is Unix like in a lot of respects, but you're simple comment said that it was Unix and it isn't. Simple straight forward crap out of YOUR mouth.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Yeah, people just don't read the entire post or jump in at the middle thinking they have all of the answers. My English isn't the best to begin with but even I can follow a conversation.

If you say you ran the "virus" under Windows 95, then it's a Windows based "virus" and I don't know if I would even classify it as a virus, per se.  It just sounds like some juvenile code to do something dumb.

post #202 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Here's what I don't get.  Samsung has a $150 unlocked phone that's essentially a new phone that runs Gingerbread which is a 3+ year old OS and the mfg has not released a 4.2.2 update for it to get it to the latest OS.  If Apple had their iPhone 3G on the market, which doesn't support iOS 6 or the upcoming iOS 7, and it was running iOS 4 out of the box, everyone would be ripping Apple a new orifice for that, yet no one really complains that Samsung is doing it with the Admire.   The Android sheep still walk into stores and buys the Admire running a 3+ year old OS.  That to me is hypocrisy and stupidity rolled up into one.  If I was a journalist, I would be ripping Samsung, Google, etc. every time they did something that Apple and even Microsoft wouldn't do.  That's like Microsoft selling a brand new computer loaded with Vista on it and not allowing it to run Windows 8, or even Windows 7 for that matter.  Microsoft or what ever PC mfg would get ripped a new one for that.  Even HP and other still market Windows 7 PCs because their market hasn't fully adopted Windows 8 yet, so they are still pumping out Windows 7 computers since their users still want to run Windows 7.  Apple users tend to want the latest and greatest OS as soon as possible and that's why they have a faster adoption rate.  Android?  Still after several years, Gingerbread is the most widely used Android phone.  That's spells trouble.  I'm surprised the media hasn't ripped Samsung, Google, etc. a lot more than they have.  Dumb journalists.

 

Yeah that sucks and their is no excuse for it, Sony does it too with their prepaid phones. I guess we can't expect Samsung to update these prepaid phones for more then what the warranty covers. It sucks, yes and it really shouldn't be this way. Apple phones are very expensive so thus you expect them to have all of the latest frills for at least a few years. Samsung does updates it phones, when you buy premium, the Samsung SII for instance has a Jellybean update.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #203 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

If you say you ran the "virus" under Windows 95, then it's a Windows based "virus" and I don't know if I would even classify it as a virus, per se.  It just sounds like some juvenile code to do something dumb.

 

All virus's are childish, the Mac PowerPC 6100 was able to run two operating systems, hence the whole deal with the 486 card. The virus I wrote was actually pretty nasty, it would multiply the little dancing guys till the machine ran out of memory and crashed. It was. like I said a project for school, know thy enemy kind of tactics.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #204 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Gee I got in on this one late.  For anyone done relishing in negativity toward Android, or has an Android device or a friend with one that wants info on avoiding the exploit (it's pretty simple, just don't allow unknown sources), here's the AC article:

 

http://www.androidcentral.com/making-sense-latest-android-security-scare

Well, it's a Android Central article.  Go figure.  This article wasn't generated from AI, it was from Black Box.   Of course it's not a good idea to get apps from an unreliable source.

 

I talked with a T-Mobile rep before they started selling iPhones and he was always trying to push Samsung crap down my throat.  He finally admitted to me that he bought a S3 for his father and it had a ton of malware on it and all of the stuff his father downloaded was from Google Play.    Go figure that one out. This was about  6 months ago.

 

I trust Apple's App Store, and trust Apple for updates. XDA regardless of whatever someone says it a non-profit org that is doing something that is probably going to violate a mfg warranty.  Sorry, that to me is not a trusted source.

 

I'll wait for the Official Google response thank you very much.  I don't trust these hole in the wall Android sites.  They, to me, aren't a trusted source.

post #205 of 245

Wow, people still store personal info on their smartphones?  I've steered clear of that even on my iphone. 

post #206 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 

All virus's are childish, the Mac PowerPC 6100 was able to run two operating systems, hence the whole deal with the 486 card. The virus I wrote was actually pretty nasty, it would multiply the little dancing guys till the machine ran out of memory and crashed. It was. like I said a project for school, know thy enemy kind of tactics.

Apple has had a computer that can run two operating systems since the late 70's, now you can run a lot more than just OS X, Windows (just about any recent flavor), you run Linux on a Mac.  One hardware, multiple OSs if you need to do that.  Some do.

 

I was running CP/M on my Apple II+  back in the 70's.  I was in High school when I started using a computer long before any of my friends, they were still using basic calculators.  My father even bought the CP/M card for it directly from Bill Gates at those user group meeting when Gates, Jobs, and Woz were snot nosed kids pushing their wares on the original users.   Apple, in ways is actually more open than PCs are.  I can run Windows LEGALLY if I want to, even though I won't.

 

Well, i never wrote viruses like you do.  I would just mess with Res Edit to make the pop up dialog boxes make colorful metaphors to the user and change the little bit mapped graphics to display the bird when it would come up with a standard error message.  It was a way to play jokes on unsuspecting friends with little knowledge of a computer.  It generated lots of laughs.

post #207 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

You're English is fine, it's the reading comprehension skills that are lacking in this case.

 

 

Just stop.  That's not what I said.  If you still can't understand what I was talking about even though it was explained to you twice in this thread (once by me and once by another member)  then there's not much I can do about it.  I don't expect a third explanation to get through at this point.

 

If it makes you feel any better I completely agree with you.  Android is not Unix.  No one is arguing with you about that.

That's EXACTLY what you said. Unless you went back and edited it.  I understood the rest of your BS, which didn't matter, once you F'd up and said that "BOTH Android and iOS were Unix", that's when i stopped reading any further because you opened up with BS.  Maybe you should work on your English and learn to understand where I'm coming from as well.   The fact is you made a HUGE error in the one statement, I caught you on it. I know you can't argue that Android is NOT Unix and that Linux isn't either. They are very similar in a lot of ways.  Linux to me is the cheap copy of Unix.  I'm actually surprised it's caught on as much as it has.  If I were a CIO of a major corporation, I would have a VERY difficult time buying into it for running servers.  I know a lot of companies are doing it successfully, I just would have a difficult time doing that.  When I was selling hardware to corporations, Linux hadn't caught on.  I was in the industry when companies were running either Unix (HP, IBM, Sun, SGI), Novell, and Windows for most of their servers.  Red Hat hadn't gone public yet. Right before I stopped working for a reselling, the most common were obviously WIndows, and then Sun were the most common that I ran into.  But it depends on the customer.  Free BSD was just starting to catch on.  LInux was out there, but it seemed VERY "hobbyist" at the time.  Obviously, with Red Hat, they have actually made some decent headway.  I think it takes someone to push it and support it to be viable. Red Hat had to figure out how to make money off it.  If guys like Ubuntu, etc. don't figure out how to make money with it, then it'll just be a boutique solution at best.

 

I have a tough time buying a product when most of my product support is through a non-profit organization that isn't the mfg who's product I'm using.  That to me is just relying on a untrustworthy source.  Call me old fashioned, but I am always a little nervous when relying on some kid's YouTube video on how to update my smartphone because the mfg won't release an official version of it.

post #208 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

So this is the most devastating malware crisis the world has ever seen, eh?

 

Kindly tell us, Mr. McLean:  what is the number of users who have actually been affected by this exploit?


:: crickets ::

post #209 of 245
99% android devices are vulnerable, but 75% of them either don't connect to internet or can't even download apps (talking about low end, old android os devices in third world countries). So the risk is not that big anyway...lol, not 25% of android high end devices are at risk. Right, fandroids? LOL
post #210 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

I have a tough time buying a product when most of my product support is through a non-profit organization that isn't the mfg who's product I'm using.  That to me is just relying on a untrustworthy source.  Call me old fashioned, but I am always a little nervous when relying on some kid's YouTube video on how to update my smartphone because the mfg won't release an official version of it.

 

Actually those kids as you put it are the reason why OSX has support for things like Nvidia and ATI video cards. If it wasn't for the Linux drivers, Apple would probably just be using an Intel card, which the drivers were also designed by a team of Linux developers and then ported to OSX coincidentally. I would take an army of open source scripts kiddies over any in house solution ran by suits any day of the week. Without the ingenuity and hard work of people giving up their free time to come together and program a lot of software and OS's we love and use would have never come to light. The back bone of the internet is practically ran on Linux, the day's of the large UNIX mainframes are long gone.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #211 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

99% android devices are vulnerable, but 75% of them either don't connect to internet or can't even download apps (talking about low end, old android os devices in third world countries). So the risk is not that big anyway...lol, not 25% of android high end devices are at risk. Right, fandroids? LOL

So then don't use it, problem solved. Now there is no need to pass around silly comments.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #212 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Actually those kids as you put it are the reason why OSX has support for things like Nvidia and ATI video cards. If it wasn't for the Linux drivers, Apple would probably just be using an Intel card, which the drivers were also designed by a team of Linux developers and then ported to OSX coincidentally. I would take an army of open source scripts kiddies over any in house solution ran by suits any day of the week. Without the ingenuity and hard work of people giving up their free time to come together and program a lot of software and OS's we love and use would have never come to light. The back bone of the internet is practically ran on Linux, the day's of the large UNIX mainframes are long gone.

False!

Both amd and nvidia write the drivers for apple. There have been numerous articles and interviews over the years.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #213 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Both and and nvidia write the drivers for apple.

Since when? Apple wrote ATI's drivers years back.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #214 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Since when? Apple wrote ATI's drivers years back.

Okay, if you say so. I was under the assumption that Apple started with the Linux code. I guess I was missed informed. Can anyone provide any links about this.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #215 of 245

Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices?  Who warrants these ROM updates? 

 

What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated?  If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.

 

This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.

 

I can see the lawyers lining up.  Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.

 


At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco

 

Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?

 

The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.

 

 

I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device. 

post #216 of 245
It's a great time for Firefox OS to debut. Ubuntu for phones and tablets is near too.

This malicious code must be from the NSA. Who else would create such an application?
post #217 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices?  Who warrants these ROM updates? 

 

What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated?  If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.

 

This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.

 

I can see the lawyers lining up.  Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.

 

 

I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.

 

Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/5/13 at 9:09pm
post #218 of 245
Skynet is coming folks and having an iPhone won't help us since the whole phone network and internet will be infested with this. All its going to take is for one really ingenious denial of service attack/meltdown and there nothing stopping it. You won't be able to use you credit card, buy groceries, pay for gas etc cuz all these payment systems will be unavailable. Then the Govt will have en excuse to take it over. As George Carlin was so found of saying "We live in a crazy fucked up world" and you get a front row seat, personally I can't wait until the whole effing thing falls apart, bring it on"
post #219 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.

 

Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.

 

Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner.  Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke.  Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid.  They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone.  Things can get corrupted very easily.   A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day.  SUCKER.

post #220 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices?  Who warrants these ROM updates? 

 

What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated?  If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.

 

This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.

 

I can see the lawyers lining up.  Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.

 


At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco

 

Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?

 

The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.

 

 

I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device. 

 

Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.

 

Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE? 

Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".

 

Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.

post #221 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

 

Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.

 

Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE? 

Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".

 

Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.

 

Whatever.  Putting a flavor of Linux on a computer can't brick the computer, so the user can always get the thing back to the original state.  With these phones, there are ways that it can render your phone un-useable and these cell carriers may not want them on their networks, the OEMs may not want their customers doing this, etc.  It's a little different than a traditional desktop computer running Linux or Ubuntu, etc.  Which I think is dumb, but I guess if you like experimenting that's your trip.

 

Neither of us are attorneys.  So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down.  Open Source?  Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property.     If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.

 

I just would not buy a product and rely on some group of idiots to upgrade my phone because the mfg can't get their collective act together.  I'll just buy a product that is much better at releasing updates and does a better job at fixing problems and removing the possibility for getting infected with malware as much as possible.  In my book, it's better to deal with a real company that knows how to develop a OS platform that's supported by the mfg and not come rouge group of selfish, childish little pricks trying to circumvent the system for some excuse to run a POS OS that shouldn't be released in the manner that it is.  I knew Android was a joke over a year ago and you and this XDA group is just validating what I already suspected. Just a mess of BS.

 

Doing something is one thing, but doing something that voiding a warranty not not approved by the OEM mfg. is something else.

 

Nothing you can say will convince me that this Android platform is even worth researching as a possible product purchase.  NOTHING.  I'm glad Apple is there.   It gives me a lot of sense of satisfaction that I can rely on a company that doesn't force us to rely on some group of rouges trying to circumvent the system.

 

Grow up. The Android platform is a joke.  Wah, wah wah.  Joke's on you.

post #222 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

 

Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.

 

Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE? 

Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".

 

Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.

It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent.  I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal.  Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case.  I don't know what they are going to do about it.  But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF.  I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.

 

Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID.  Google can make this stuff a limited open source.  I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware.  Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK.  Seriously.  

 

Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah.  Is it legal? NO.  Is it supported? NO.  Then it's stupid to do it.

post #223 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner.  Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke.  Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid.  They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone.  Things can get corrupted very easily.   A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day.  SUCKER.

Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.

 

I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)

 

I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.

post #224 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent.  I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal.  Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case.  I don't know what they are going to do about it.  But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF.  I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.

 

Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID.  Google can make this stuff a limited open source.  I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware.  Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK.  Seriously.  

 

Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah.  Is it legal? NO.  Is it supported? NO.  Then it's stupid to do it.

Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?

 

And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.

post #225 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.

 

I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)

 

I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.

 So what.  Maybe that's why Oppo phones aren't selling well.

 

Someone wanting to take control of their device? What is THAT all about.  I choose to buy what products I want and use it how it's intended and do what I can to make sure that I'm not getting malware.  What's wrong with that? The second you get malware which you may not even know you have, someone else takes control over YOUR data. Ooops.

 

I am NOT a communist oriented thinker.  Apple or whomever that doesn't buy into the Open Source community BS is just trying to develop a platform and be able to support it and hopefully try to protect the consumer from malware.  That's how they are doing things.  I buy a Mac with the intentions of using OS X.  If I need to run Windows on it, then Apple, with Microsoft's blessing allows me to run Windows on it.  But computers are COMPLETELY different than a smartphone.  Cell carriers are involved and they want to make sure that whatever code is running on these devices is kosher for them to bless.   it's just using some intelligence to make things work and for people to get good support, etc.  

 

What these companies are trying to do is to make sure that it is less likely to install something illegal or open up their systems to be infested by malware and to gie a consistent user experience that the company can better support the user.    How does Apple dictate what apps I'm allowed to download?  All they are looking for is some bad code that compromises the customer's device.  Nothing wrong with that.  That's trying to PROTECT the consumer ya idiot.

 

A choice? Of what?  A platform that has more malware than any other mobile device platform?  Wow, how dumb is that? 

 

You are making childish excuses to not work within the system.  REAL childish.  Grow up.  You obviously sound like someone that doesn't like rules.


You know what happens in a society that doesn't have rules or people don't follow rules?  Anarchy. You sound like an anarchist.  Anarchist are people that avoid rules, eventually they get caught doing something illegal.  Again, grow up.

 

 

Oh someone's reputation gets tarnished.  And how the F are you going to know who that is because these modders can change their screen names.  Data can get corrupted at any point in time even without the intent of the developer or the user.  From reading the XDA site, someone mentioned about 4 ways they knew of how a phone could get bricked and they mentioned that there could be other ways for that to happen.  Doesn't sound like a rational way to deal with a smartphone.

 

Obvisously, You are NEVER going to change my mind.  I will NEVER buy an Android ANYTHING, so I don't have to worry about the BS that goes along with it.  But you have to keep up to date on that crap, its more things YOU have to worry about.


Edited by drblank - 7/6/13 at 2:11am
post #226 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?

 

And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.

I'm well aware of what open source can mean as there are certain things that will make something open source at certain levels.  Is Windows Open Source? Does Microsoft release the Source Code for you to modify?

 

If the company doesn't mind you doing it and they'll still warrant the product,then that's the right of the mfg.  But I don't believe that Google intended these phones to be hacked and modified in the way they are being done.  From my perspective, until Google makes an official announcement, I believe that Google wants people to take the code, modify it for their own hardware and market and support a product much in the way that HTC, Samsung are doing it and NOT for some idiot customer to go around the way the device mfg's wishes and reload something else in it's place that is not supported by that device mfg.

 

I think it's Open Source to a certain extent.  Obviously, you need to talk to the device mfg and ask them if what you are doing is in violation of any of their IP.  And you might have to also contact the cell phone carrier to see if it's in violation of their service agreement.  Have you done that?

post #227 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?

 

And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.

Sounds like a mess to me.  enjoy your bag of hurt.  Now, go to your XDA, Android Central site and quit bothering people that have no interest in Android.  

I don't go on Android Central or XDA's site bothering them, so quit bothering us.  

post #228 of 245

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap.

 

No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

Neither of us are attorneys.  So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down.  Open Source?  Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property.     If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.

 

Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase

 

"You may reproduce and distribute copies of the Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You meet the following conditions:" 

 

 

seems quite clear.  The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF.  

 

 

A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Since repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, why wouldn't an OEM want to escape from that contract?

post #229 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.

 

 

Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase

 

 

seems quite clear.  The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.

 

 

 

A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, so why wouldn't an OEM be glad to escape from that contract?

Yeah, people are. They are trying to justify that people get an update that the mfg refuses to post on an older phone to have 4.2.2.    If I were a mfg of a phone, I would only sell product that can run the latest OS and give people at least 3 years worth of OS updates in the process if I could..  And get the updates in the customer's hands quickly.  In addition do whatever it takes to give the customers a safe place to get apps that don't have malware.  Do whatever they can to prevent malware even if it's done through an email distribution or going to some loser's site that does this. I know it's hard to do, but some companies have managed to not have malware attacks register with these security companies.  I certainly wouldn't force my customers to get OS support and updates through a 3rd party group of people that don't get paid for their time, and there is no accountability should the hardware get bricked because of doing something like what XDA is doing. 

 

What does Apache have to do with Android OS's that are on these phones that need to get updated?

 

That's the point. The OEMs don't want to spend the money it takes to do a proper job in supporting their own products, so they'll let unpaid volunteers do that for them.  Great.  It's called CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, INTEGRITY, GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES, something the Android OEMS and Google lack.  That's why Apple has high customer satisfaction issues.  Yeah, I wonder how many phones within a 2 year period the average Android user buys because in order to get a new version OS, they have to buy a new phone.  I have an iPhone 4, and it works great.  The battery does fine and it hasn't crashed ONCE and I've never had any problems with it where I needed to have it replaced, OS reset.  If I have a question about the OS, I can swing into the local Apple store and there's plenty of qualified people to assist me, FREE O CHARGE.  and when iOS 7 comes out, that will be the third major OS update on this product, so it can theoretically last until iOS 8 comes out which is a year after iOS 7's release, which I'll probably have to replace it if I want to always run the latest OS and still want to keep my phone a little longer past the 2 year contract.  That's how it SHOULD be regardless of brand.  I shouldn't be forced into going to a third party to get an OS release because of security reasons and the mfg is too lazy or cheap to update the OS like they SHOULD. It makes me not want to buy another product from that company since if I do, I'll have to rely on someone else after a year's period.  If that's the game Android OEMS want to play, they may not get return business unless you are one of the 5 Million registered XDA users that don't mind.  That's not a high rate of people buying into XDA's concept.  Remember, there's 900 Million Android phones and only 5 Million are supportive of XDA?  Maybe the Android platform only really has about 5 Million constantly buying Android phones and there aren't 900 million users, only 5 Million with their HUGE collection of Android phones.  How many Android phones have you bought in the last 1 1/2?  I've only bought one smartphone and it works just fine.  I've run into a handful of Android geeks that are into rooting their phones, etc. and they always seem to be experts on just about every model Android phone to the point where they have owned them.  Seems like an expensive hobby collecting Android phones. Maybe most of them are just laying around not being used collecting dust.

post #230 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.

 

 

Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase

 

 

seems quite clear.  The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.

 

 

A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Since repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, why wouldn't an OEM want to escape from that contract?

I would laugh for about a year if there were only 5 million actual Android phone users and they each had a collection of 180 phones each. One of each model...  I wonder what Android user has the biggest collection of Android phones to be the Ultimate Android user?  Maybe Google should have a contest and give the winner a free set of Google Glass.........

post #231 of 245
About this vulnerability, installing a hobbyist, basement designed ROM is certainly NOT a solution as the makers will certainly never have the resources to properly test for weaknesses and won't go back to plug weaknesses. You are gambling big time with these ROMS floating around.

Google will patch this massive security hole, but God help you if you don't have a Nexus 4, or Google Edition GS4 or HTC One or one of this year's carrier subsidized flagship's from one of the majors (Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC). If you have a hobbyist ROM or phone older than 6 months forget it...

And I know there are even more heinous exploits in android, especially among these bootleg OS's floating around XDA.
post #232 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If I were a mfg of a phone, I would only sell product that can run the latest OS and give people at least 3 years worth of OS updates in the process if I could..  And get the updates in the customer's hands quickly.  In addition do whatever it takes to give the customers a safe place to get apps that don't have malware.  

 

To this, I would ask, "why?" I can understand your point if you were selling to people who plan to use their smartphones as platforms for consuming apps. Those people might care about getting OS updates, especially if you tie certain app updates together with OS releases. But if the majority of your customers buy your phones because "oooh it has a touchscreen!" and are using them simply to make calls and text their friends, why would you bother

 

1) equipping your entire lineup with enough hardware to support three years of OS releases (e.g. iPhones tend to have top-notch GPUs at the time of their release), and

 

2) porting OS releases to all of your phones, not just the high-end ones? Android 2.X makes calls, sends texts, and performs google searches perfectly well. If you foisted the latest OS on everyone, your customers who use their devices as glorified featurephones would probably complain about everything looking different. At the end of the day you would have little to show for your effort.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/6/13 at 9:11am
post #233 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Hey, DroidFTW, go to XDA's site and tell people there about your Android revelations.  This is not an Android site.  I think you woke up thinking that AppleInsider was an Android Site.  I'm sure you probably meant to type in AndroidInsider OR you really just go to Apple related sites to annoy everyone with Android information to other Android users.

 

 

Given how frequently AppleInsider writes about Android, it's bound to attract android followers. Here are some unscientific numbers. On AppleInsider's front page there are no less than six stories pertaining to android or samsung phones. At the time of this posting, Androidcentral.com doesn't contain a single instance of the word "apple".

post #234 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

Given how frequently AppleInsider writes about Android, it's bound to attract android followers. Here are some unscientific numbers. On AppleInsider's front page there are no less than six stories pertaining to android or samsung phones. At the time of this posting, Androidcentral.com doesn't contain a single instance of the word "apple".

That's why I don't go to Androidcentral.  I do make comments asking AI to not post Android specific related articles.  Maybe some day they will listen and you will not continue to bother us.  I don't bother you on Androidcentral, so maybe you should do the same and display a little etiquette.  Some of the articles are pointing out the known flaws of Android or other platforms and comparing to Apple, which I find interesting.   Platform fragmentation or SERIOUS security issues should be of great concern to people, regardless of which platform and discuss how one company's approach is better than the other.  But to go into detail about Android/XDA?  Go else where for isn't necessary because it makes you sound like someone that's desperate to get Apple users to like Android, when most of us don't.

 

For whatever features that Android has that iPhones don't.  Apple had to get rid of their former development manager so they could get a better group to get back on track and so far, so good.  Yeah, iOS has had some disappointments due to Forstall, but those days are over and the new group seems to be getting back on track and so far so good.

 

WIth Apple, they develop both the OS and the hardware down to the processor.  For these OEM Android mfg, they either don't develop the OS, or processors, or other technology and they are focus on certain things and supporting the OS with timely updates isn't one of them.  

 

Even Samsung doesn't always use their own processors. why? I haven't a clue why they wouldn't use their own processors on their products.

 

I don't think there is another company that develops as much of the actual product between the OS, hardware, components and first party apps  as much as Apple and they also do the best job in supporting their platform than anyone else.

post #235 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

I come here for Apple news as well.  I'm interested in iOS and Android.

Well, then let me give you a suggestion.  if you want to talk Apple, then you are in the right place.  If you want to discuss Android, go to an Android centric site.  That will make everyone happy.  That's why I don't go to Android sites unless i'm going to read about something of interest, but I don't post comments there with my viewpoints on what I see about that platform to get others riled up over it.

 

Why they posted this article on this site, I don't know what the moderator's intentions were.  Personally, if AI created a Android centric site, great.  separate the two, make life easy so you and I don't go at each other's throats.  Then you go to one site to discuss whichever platform is the topic of discussion. 

 

I, by nature because of the training that I've had on how to analyze things, I have to look at the pros and cons of the discussion and place the weight accordingly in order to arrive at my decision. Something I think it lacking in the vast majority of the population.  A lot of people are easily suckered into things. Sometimes we don't realize it until much later after the problems surface to the point where we have to change direction.

 

I used have to read up on every technology, mfg, etc. because I was paid to do as it was part of my job.  I had to be up to speed on IBM, Compaq, Apple, Microsoft, etc. etc.  I don't get paid to do that, so I only really care about things that I actually use or plan on using, which is why I'm here.  But I do know how to analyze things in ways most people don't because of their lack of training.

 

 

SIDE NOTE:  The ONLY reason that I can see why AI posted this article in the first place, being an Apple Centric site, is to dig in to a SERIOUS flaw in the Android platform giving Apple users more reasons to not want to use Android and to give us more ammunition as to why we choose to use Apple instead..  But posting this type of article on this type of site will get people riled up that are supportive of the Android platform as some (many) might be in a certain degree of denial about this SERIOUS SECURITY problem that might threaten a platform.  In all my time, this may be a serious deal breaker for a LOT of Enterprise customers, and others that will avoid using Android.  Google may in fact have to switch gears and make a direction change to avoid this in the future that may close up this Open system.  If I were Google's position, I would have to make some rather serious decisions as to how to deal with this platform moving forward to avoid this problem and how it affects 900 Million users.  If they don't, there are a lot of people waiting for Android switchers to go to another platform.  It's happening to a certain degree with Microsoft.


Edited by drblank - 7/6/13 at 3:28pm
post #236 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Right, because he was talking about the site, not the...

Oh, wait.

All I initially did was instill the fact that Google/Android platform has a serious problem I saw something this coming a while back and glad I'm not affected by the personal choice not to buy into Android, and then the Android users get all upset like I made a personal attack on them.  But reasoning with them is futile. they need to learn on their own and maybe when they grow up, they'll learn what I've learned over the years about the problems with an Open Architecture.

I really, honestly think that the Google execs might have figure out a way out of this mess and they actually may have to decide to close it up and do it more like Microsoft or even Apple's method.  Why? 900 Million users and they only have 5 million buying into XDA.  I'm sure the Enterprise customers (education, military, corporate, and government) are looking at this and factor this in when they make a decision to see how Google is going to deal with it. Those are the customers that choose long term IT strategy and they don't switch platforms so quickly because it's too expensive for them to do so.  But if Google doesn't care about resolving this in a long term approach, then they might have to kiss off a lot of future stable business.

post #237 of 245

Every conspiracy nut/open source hippie advocate claims that BECAUSE ANDROID IS OPEN IT IS INVULNERABLE UNLIKE WINDOWS/MAC etc. etc.

 

Yet here we are with a master backdoor key that has rendered 99% of the user base vulnerable to attack.

 

Slow, and very sarcastic, clap.

 

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #238 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

It's a great time for Firefox OS to debut. Ubuntu for phones and tablets is near too.

This malicious code must be from the NSA. Who else would create such an application?

Anyone who wants money.

Even just visiting your bank and typing in your account number to log in via the web browser would be stored on the device, either via a cookie or local storage. Even if you tell the browser not to remember that info, they could still sit and wait in the background and wait for you to log in and key log the entire process.

 

This is, obviously, the worst case scenario.

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #239 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

According to koop it's already been addressed.  I hope they do something at the OS level for those that they can in additional to the Play Store fix.

Even if its been "addressed", the chances of a fix making it to any given affected device is slim at best. Instead it will just be incorporated into new handsets as seems to be the carriers
Modus operandi. ( or will it? As many of the phones are sold with older os version?)
post #240 of 245
Wouldn't a free, shared, communal, OS like android, where everybody gets everything, but its all substandard be a better example of communism than an iOS that represents people choosing to spend their hard earned money for a premium product because of its benefits that include aesthetics, ease of use, product support, a complete ecosystem, etc .
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