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Samsung earnings disappoint amidst concerns of slowing smartphone growth - Page 2

post #41 of 92
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Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Wall Street cares about products the way bookies care about horses.

Good one. LOL.

post #42 of 92
DrBlank's interesting last post got me to thinking. Samsung makes EVERYTHING. Their current dependence on phones for profit poses a risk for a company that specializes in not specializing. Apple DOESN'T try to make anything and everything. Now the purpose of Apple's current ad campaign becomes clearer to me. Like Samsung, Apple has a phone problem. Does it want to become primarily a phone company? Apple can use its phones as halo products to sell into its ecosystem. Samsung's phones don't help it to sell its washing machines. Very interesting to watch this play out.
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post #43 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


But I am drinking champaign.
"Interesting" is in the eye of the beholder. So you tell me: why did you find my posting interesting enough to reply?

I find most things interesting, including silly posts from people in the matrix who insist massive profits made be made by manufacturing, shipping and then burying phones. It was you who claimed to be disinterested and yet summoned the energy to inform us so.

post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

I think they try to release it when it won't have to compete with a new iPhone, toward the end of the cycle for the last one.

 

Yeah, they want to have a head start.  Also, since Samsung is a supplier of certain components maybe Samsung drags their feet a little in supporting what Apple is doing.  I can't wait for Apple to be in a position when they aren't reliant on Samsung so much or at all.  I don't trust Samsung.  They might make decent components, but they aren't the only game in town. I wish Intel would have played ball and hooked up with Apple and supported Apple's ARM processors like they SHOULD have.  Intel can be arrogant when it comes to their processors and supporting someone else whether it's an Intel chip design or not.

post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Apple has several problems to deal with.

 

I don't agree with any of your points. Not a single one.

post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

"Though Samsung Electronics reported a record operating profit for its June quarter, the number still came in below analysts' expectations, sending the company's stock tumbling on Friday."


Just like Apple. But will we start seeing tech blogs lamenting that Samsung has lost its mojo? Will we see articles instructing Samsung as to what it must do to survive? Will a chorus of wagging tongues start demanding that Samsung's CEO be replaced? Will the term"beleaguered" start to be used when referring to Samsung? Will there be cries of "no innovation" flying around? 


I think we already know the answers to those questions don't we.

It's simple, Apple "fails" to innovate leaves Sammy nothing to copy.
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

1.  They don't have NTT and China Mobile signed up yet.  

That's not a problem. It's an opportunity. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

2.  Apple has only announced basically one new model on a yearly basis, when they should be announcing more than that.  I think Apple has room to replace their existing iPhone 4 and 4S with an updated model that is their "low end" model which maybe Apple is planning on doing.  The other is getting a bigger screen phone, which is seriously hampering their growth.  I personally think that the market is definitely split up into three definite screen sizes and Apple needs to constantly address this.

Should? They might choose to? But "should"? Come on ...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

3. It's similar to the PC industry selling $400 laptops.  THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT, SO WHY BOTHER.  It's a cheap way of buying market share.

 

Kind of like it. There is some money in it. But not in the same range as what they are making. Once in a while, Mercedes makes a cheaper sedan or whatever. But it is never a low end vehicle. That's kind of like it, too.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

4. iOS obviously needs an fresh update, which it could have used last year, but obviously we have to wait until iOS 7 is finished, but so far, I personally like what I see and know that iOS 8 will just add even more features.

iOS7 will not be "finished". It's a reset of iOS as we knew it. I think it's wrong to say they are doing this to forsake Scott Forstall's vision. I think they are doing this because (a) it's time, (b) they want a new UX that is harder to emulate and (c) they are incorporating new technology in the UX. Future versions (in the next few years) may as well be called iOS7.2, etc., much like the naming of MacOSX. I think they are also instilling uniformity more broadly. For example, I see they have recently adopted parallax scrolling on their website.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

5.  I don't know how much pent up demand Apple has for their fingerprint ID technology to get released.  Individuals may not care as much as large customers, government, and military customers might be salivating for this technology in smartphones and tablets.  So, this is something we have to wait to see how much impact that's happening.

I don't think Apple does things necessarily out of demand, at least not in the traditional way. They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.

post #48 of 92

And still not any mention of Samsung's "disappointing" sales or the Android security breach on C|net or most other non Apple-centric blogs. Nothing.

post #49 of 92
Samsung is a very diverse company - making TVs, Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Computer Chips, Solid State Drives, Memory Chips, Cameras, etc.

The fact that 70% of its profits are in smartphones goes to show how poorly the rest of the company is doing.

If Samsung did not slavishly copy Apple's iPhone, they would be losing money.
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Henry Ford
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post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Henry Ford

"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." –Steve Jobs

By extension, people don't know what they'd care about until you show it to them.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If Apple's going to do that then don't make it from cheap looking candy colored plastic. Who would spend $400 on that?

This is Apple we are talking about. They know how to make plastic phones that don't look cheap. Remember the original iPhone?
post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Shares of Samsung lost nearly 4 percent after Samsung released guidance ahead of its full June quarter results, which will be reported on July 26. The company revealed that its operating profit grew 47 percent year over year to 9.5 trillion won, or $8.3 billion.
...

Those fears became a reality this year, in the company's second quarter of fiscal 2013, when Apple saw its profits fall for the first time in a decade. The company's profits were down about 18 percent year over year to $9.5 billion, despite record second quarter sales of $43.6 billion.

 

While we have to wait for Apple's current quarterly reports, the difference seems to be that YoY, Samsung's profits have been going up, while Apple's profits were down last quarter in spite of increased sales.

 

If the high end (aka high priced) market is saturated, it will affect Apple more, because they started with huge profit margins and can only drop from there.  I think Cook has been trying to let everyone down easy, because he realizes that Apple needs to get into the lower profit margin regions. Plus he has said before that he does not intend to leave price umbrellas for competitors.

 

Quote:
Samsung has also become increasingly dependent on its smartphone business, with that segment of the company accounting for some 70 percent of its total profit. In contrast, iPhone sales account for about half of Apple's revenue.

 

Hard to contrast profits and revenues.

 

Doesn't the iPhone count for about 2/3 of Apple's profits?  Certainly iOS devices must.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

If it's so rosy I wonder why they want to hide it. Do you?

 

Why does Apple hide the sales ratio of the iPhone 5 vs the iPhone 4S and 4? 

 

Answer: because such details would give valuable information to its competitors, and possibly worry investors.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

You misunderstanding the phone market, the iPhone is very far from being a very high margin product.  Too much patent and licence fee are attached to any cell phone technology.  

 

The iPhone is very much a high margin product, despite paying up to $50 per phone for IP licenses.

 

Their gross margin is well over 50%, and their net margin is likely close to 30%.  That's a lot.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Just like Apple. But will we start seeing tech blogs lamenting that Samsung has lost its mojo? 

 

All sorts of articles out today saying things like that.   For example, USA Today's Samsung gets a taste of Apple's bitter pill, quotes Strategy Analytics as saying:

 

""Apple is suffering from iPhone fatigue, while Samsung is suffering from Galaxy fatigue," 

post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I don't think Apple does things necessarily out of demand, at least not in the traditional way. They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.

They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what APPLE cares about.

Apple has a vision for where computing is heading. They want you to buy into their vision.
post #55 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

This is Apple we are talking about. They know how to make plastic phones that don't look cheap. Remember the original iPhone?

Made of aluminum. Yes, I remember it.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

This is Apple we are talking about. They know how to make plastic phones that don't look cheap. Remember the original iPhone?
Does my memory fail me, or didn't the original iPhone have a metal back with the only plastic on it being a black radio "window" at the bottom? Perhaps you're thinking of the 3 series.
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post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It is impressive how they earned these record profits by only shipping but not selling millions of phones. Now that's innovation.

 

Does "operating profit" = "net profit" and are these figures directly comparable to the way Apple reports profit? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

You misunderstanding the phone market, the iPhone is very far from being a very high margin product.  Too much patent and licence fee are attached to any cell phone technology.  Apple like everyone else has to pay big bucks for its 3G-LTE modem and other technologies integrated in phones these day, this is why carriers started to subsidize devices to their clients unwilling to pay the real price of it. 

 

The real cash cow for Apple is not their products anymore but their services, the iTunes Stores and the whole iOS ecosystem is where Apple got their money from. 

 

Well, someone's misunderstanding the market at least. 

 

As I recall Apple makes relatively little on their "services" including those you've mentioned compared to their hardware SKU's.  And yes, they do make a healthy margin on their new phones.  From the beginning (with some minor back and forths including the too-late OS licensing period) Apple's always been a device company that offered exclusive software and software/content related services and more recently a broker for third party media and software.  The ecosystem's more a halo effect that helps keep the Apple marketing machine going - to date at least. 

You are correct, though, in  that it is the CARRIERS (the ones who do) who subsidize the phones - not Apple (at least mostly from what we can infer).  Also, dunno if any manufacturer's been able to get the unprecedented terms during the subsidized contract period that Apple set as their own standard first with ATT and subsequently others, at least in the US.

Or if any others have been able to avoid carrierware, bloatware, on-phone branding, control over when and how updates are released, and their entirely separate AppleCare operation (which I imagine also has a nice margin) as opposed to carrier associated extended warranty contracts.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

DrBlank's interesting last post got me to thinking. Samsung makes EVERYTHING. Their current dependence on phones for profit poses a risk for a company that specializes in not specializing. Apple DOESN'T try to make anything and everything. Now the purpose of Apple's current ad campaign becomes clearer to me. Like Samsung, Apple has a phone problem. Does it want to become primarily a phone company? Apple can use its phones as halo products to sell into its ecosystem. Samsung's phones don't help it to sell its washing machines. Very interesting to watch this play out.

 

^ Interesting line of thought... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 

iOS7 will not be "finished". It's a reset of iOS as we knew it. I think it's wrong to say they are doing this to forsake Scott Forstall's vision. I think they are doing this because (a) it's time, (b) they want a new UX that is harder to emulate and (c) they are incorporating new technology in the UX. Future versions (in the next few years) may as well be called iOS7.2, etc., much like the naming of MacOSX. I think they are also instilling uniformity more broadly. For example, I see they have recently adopted parallax scrolling on their website.

 

I don't think Apple does things necessarily out of demand, at least not in the traditional way. They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.

 

Your post brought a possible (?) scenario to mind:  that iOS 10 may mark a fairly major transition and be the point at which a "semi-grand OS unification" is deemed to have occurred.

I.e,  Mac OS and iOS may retain separate code bases and/or apps and/or whatever, but this might be the point at which we see a naming convention of "OS X Santa Cruz" and "iOS X Something" (whatever name series they choose for iOS)...  ...hmmm.  I know I like the notion....

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Now Samsung is also disappointing analysts and investors with record profits. Is there no end to their copying of Apple? What will they do next - issue dividends and buy back shares? Fire their software head?

It is impressive how they earned these record profits by only shipping but not selling millions of phones. Now that's innovation.
When you buy parts from yourself and count shipped phones as sold but don't account for unsold phones until you give them away as buy one get one, you can show all kinds of profit
post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Henry Ford

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." –Steve Jobs

By extension, people don't know what they'd care about until you show it to them.

Isn't that what I wrote already? Aren't my words good enough? You guys have echo me using Henry Ford and Steve Jobs? Sheesh ...

post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Isn't that what I wrote already?

Not... really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.

Because this isn't what we're saying. The they here refers to Apple, since the first sentence negates the possibility that it refers to individuals. Apple doesn't do that.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton

Of no particular concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent

Then what's the point of mentioning anything. Why is it interesting to share what you are not concerned about?

You might have written "not currently drinking champagne".

It's called passive-aggression. Other examples include, "Yawn", "Meh" and "How is this news?".
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

If the phone is in my pocket, does it count as wearing?

 

Is this intended to be a serious question?

post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

That's not a problem. It's an opportunity. 

 

Should? They might choose to? But "should"? Come on ...

 

 

Kind of like it. There is some money in it. But not in the same range as what they are making. Once in a while, Mercedes makes a cheaper sedan or whatever. But it is never a low end vehicle. That's kind of like it, too.

 

iOS7 will not be "finished". It's a reset of iOS as we knew it. I think it's wrong to say they are doing this to forsake Scott Forstall's vision. I think they are doing this because (a) it's time, (b) they want a new UX that is harder to emulate and (c) they are incorporating new technology in the UX. Future versions (in the next few years) may as well be called iOS7.2, etc., much like the naming of MacOSX. I think they are also instilling uniformity more broadly. For example, I see they have recently adopted parallax scrolling on their website.

 

I don't think Apple does things necessarily out of demand, at least not in the traditional way. They don't necessarily care what individuals care about. They are more interested in getting individuals to buy what they care about.

It's a problem that the analysts are seeing.  From an investor perspective, I would see it as an opportunity, but a lot of analysts may not suggest buying Apple until they get more warm and fuzzies that these carriers will get signed on.  Remember, if an analyst makes a recommendation and the company doesn't live up to the recommendations, these analysts can actually lose their jobs if they are not accurate in their predictions.  Some are accurate, some aren't.  The thing is they go by what guidance the company they are following is saying, what's going on in the market, what kinds of trends they are seeing for the next 6 months to maybe a year. Some of them go further than that, but most of the time, they are looking at within a year time period, sometimes, they are looking at next quarter.  I had a tough time swallowing them predicting that Apple would drop to $400 a share and damned if that didn't happen.  But I do believe that for LONG term investment, Apple looks pretty good, but a lot of things have to happen before we see them breaking out the growth rate they once had.  Microsoft, Intel, CIsco, etc. saw their bubble burst in and around the year 2000, which is around when Apple started to really take off, so 13 years later, Apple's bubble burst and some are wondering is this the sign of Apple stagnating, if so for how long and will Apple see huge growth rate again and what's going to trigger it.

 

Should? Yes, Apple should have announced the 4inch iPhone 5 and a larger screen iPhone 5 or whatever they were going to call it.  If they had, they would have sold a TON of product had they had their production together. The iPhone 5 has done well, but some predicted higher numbers than what they actually got.  

 

Apple's answer to a $500 laptop is the iPad.  A lot less expensive to make than a $500 laptop.  Making money in the PC industry?  The only things that make money are the servers and high end workstations. Go look at any PC mfg like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.  they aren't making dick when it comes to PCs.  Why do you think IBM got out, Compaq sold off, HP's looking to dump their PC business, Dell's trying to go private?  There's no money selling PC boxes.  It's been that way for a long time.

 

Well, I think they are doing iOS 7 because Forstall didn't want to give up the skeuomorphic look and add the features they should have added last year because they were working on Maps which they should have not released until it was less buggy in the data and how it's presented.  that actually hurt Apple in a lot of ways. It's obvious from Craig's presentation that he was doing his little digs in Forstall's approach.

 

Apple has a planned approach on when they release OSs.  IOS 7 will be finished and released soon.  iOS 8 will just add more features like they always do.

Apple DOES listen to the users.  Why do you think Apple has the feedback site and they encourage people to make submissions?  Squeaky wheel gets the oil.  I've made LOTS of submissions that eventually came to fruition and it dates back over 10 years ago.  In iOS7, there are probably about 5 or 6 things that I have submitted over the past 6 months that I think they should do to a future release, so from my point of view, they did address my needs.  They done this on a LOT of levels.  Seriously.  They may toss out some user's ideas/suggestions for various reasons, but they don't toss out everything. It may not happen immediately since they have to figure out what is most important, but they are listening.  Sometimes they go off tangent and come up with something to disrupt everything, but it usually works its way out. Listening to their customers is what ALL companies should be doing.  One submission I sent in took two OS X revs, but they eventually did what I asked. But they had to actually hire someone to do the development, which they did because I knew the guy personally and doing what they wanted took time to write the code, but it was done.

post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

DrBlank's interesting last post got me to thinking. Samsung makes EVERYTHING. Their current dependence on phones for profit poses a risk for a company that specializes in not specializing. Apple DOESN'T try to make anything and everything. Now the purpose of Apple's current ad campaign becomes clearer to me. Like Samsung, Apple has a phone problem. Does it want to become primarily a phone company? Apple can use its phones as halo products to sell into its ecosystem. Samsung's phones don't help it to sell its washing machines. Very interesting to watch this play out.

I think for some Samsung users, they'll be more likely to buy a Samsung TV, appliance, tablet, computer if they have a good experience with the product.  Samsung is trying to capitalize on anything they can.  Judging from their past experience getting caught price fixing, they seem like the type of company that would do whatever they can to make as much money off these phones and tablets, which they are doing. They make panels, processors, SSD, RAM, etc. for a large portion of the smartphone market.  It wouldn't surprise me if Samsung made more money from what they sell to Apple than they do those cheap $150 Galaxy Admires.

With all of Apple's money, I'm sure Apple has thought about building and running their own foundries making processors, and possibly their own RAM, SSD.  It would cost many billions of dollars to do it, and it would take Apple some expertise they don't currently have to do it, but it would give them greater control over product supply, costs, and keep themselves having more control over their product line.  IBM was for the longest time, the biggest semiconductor mfg that only supplied themselves with chips. Most people didn't know that.  IBM made the bulk of their own chips that went into those old mainframes, even in the early 80's, IBM had more fab lines than just about the rest of the industry.  But they didn't sell any of it external to IBM so a lot of people didn't even realize how much they had going on behind the scenes.  IBM's competitors didn't do that, which maybe why IBM has prevailed in the mainframe industry.  They do have some pretty sick mainframes.  5.5 Ghz processors.  Dig that!!!

post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


It's hard to release something cheaper yet keep high margins. Apple said the iPad mini had the lowest margins of any Apple device. But with the mini Apple didn't sacrifice quality for the sake of margins. I'm sorry but those candy colored plastic cases look cheap. Not something I would spend $400 or more on. I don't think Apple can play in the low end space yet still expect to get high end like margins.

I agree with all, but with a slightly different twist.

 

It's good business to release something cheaper at lower margins if it is ADDITIVE (and does not cannibalize from existing lines) &/or if it strengthens BRAND (ecosystem).

 

With the iPad Mini, Apple KNEW it would be popular, the challenge was to produce it with high enough quality and at attractive prices points (while maintaining adequate margins).  It's the SAME challenge with smart phones right now.  Apple KNOWS that a cheaper smart phone and feature phones would be wildly popular...and will be a good business decision if Apple can do what it did with the iPad Mini.  There was definitely some cannibalization with iPad Mini which ended up reducing Gross Margins.  But seems like the net effect was more positive than negative.

 

I'm concerned that a cheaper iPhone may not play out as well as the iPad Mini situation.  However...I have to assume that Apple market research/survey would result in a decision WAY better than mine.

post #66 of 92
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

And still not any mention of Samsung's "disappointing" sales or the Android security breach on C|net or most other non Apple-centric blogs. Nothing.

 

Yup.  99% of all Android devices are wide open to a killer flaw.  

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/03/security-flaw-opens-all-modern-android-devices-to-zombie-botnet-takeover

 

And Jay Z's got 99 problems and malware is one.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/05/samsungs-free-jay-z-album-delivered-via-android-spyware-app

 

Analysts whine about Apple "not innovating" while Android is a freakshow of spyware on top of malware.

Good luck with that "Knox" enterprise security hack, Samsung.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I find most things interesting, including silly posts from people in the matrix who insist massive profits made be made by manufacturing, shipping and then burying phones. It was you who claimed to be disinterested and yet summoned the energy to inform us so.

Yes, I was interested in telling you I was disinterested in AI's little click bait article. Is that so difficult to grasp? It was you who demanded that I somehow justify my post as interesting to you, something that I cannot do because, as I pointed out already, "interesting is in the eye of the beholder." I am not responsible for how you wish to judge my posts. You will, of course, apply your biases to your judgments.

So I'm going to post whatever and whenever I feel like posting, your opinion of my posts notwithstanding. 1smile.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyhorsman View Post

It's called passive-aggression. Other examples include, "Yawn", "Meh" and "How is this news?".

Bingo. Someone is paying attention.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post


When you buy parts from yourself and count shipped phones as sold but don't account for unsold phones until you give them away as buy one get one, you can show all kinds of profit

Really? Can you give me a numerical example of how that might work?

post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Yes, I was interested in telling you I was disinterested in AI's little click bait article. Is that so difficult to grasp? It was you who demanded that I somehow justify my post as interesting to you, something that I cannot do because, as I pointed out already, "interesting is in the eye of the beholder." I am not responsible for how you wish to judge my posts. You will, of course, apply your biases to your judgments.

So I'm going to post whatever and whenever I feel like posting, your opinion of my posts notwithstanding. 1smile.gif

I was just kidding. Sheesh ... 

 

I'm sorry, ok, Suddenly Cranky?

post #71 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Isn't that what I wrote already? Aren't my words good enough? You guys have echo me using Henry Ford and Steve Jobs? Sheesh ...
Why so prickly? I can't speak for the other guy, but my contribution to the thread was in no way intended to infer that what you said wasn't good enough. It just reminded me of Ford's quote. One that I had always found apropos Steve's way of doing business. Thought I was just collaborating.
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post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

I don't agree with any of your points. Not a single one.

Well, maybe you should understand that EVERY company has problems to deal with. NO COMPANY operates without some internal problems.  It's just a matter of what they are, when and how they fix it, etc.  Well, you can disagree, but come up with a reason why you disagree and then maybe we can have an intelligent discussion.  I think it's kind of chicken to say you disagree and don't have anything to validate your position. 

post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

It's a problem that the analysts are seeing.  From an investor perspective, I would see it as an opportunity ...

My personal opinion: It's not up to outsiders to decide if it is a problem or opportunity. We can speculate and have fun doing it. Apple decides that for itself. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Remember, if an analyst makes a recommendation and the company doesn't live up to the recommendations, these analysts can actually lose their jobs if they are not accurate in their predictions.  Some are accurate, some aren't.  

Munster et al are all doing quite well :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Should? Yes, Apple should have announced the 4inch iPhone 5 and a larger screen iPhone 5 or whatever they were going to call it.  If they had, they would have sold a TON of product had they had their production together. The iPhone 5 has done well, but some predicted higher numbers than what they actually got.  

Don't take this the wrong way. But you are making the judgment of "should" based on opportunity lost - i.e. they could have taken away some (if not much) of the growing (?) market of 5-inchers. That is only true if one cares about market share. I don't. Apple does to a degree but it is clearly not their primary motivation. Not even close, I'd say. So ... there is no "should", but there could be a "might".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Apple's answer to a $500 laptop is the iPad.  A lot less expensive to make than a $500 laptop.  Making money in the PC industry?  The only things that make money are the servers and high end workstations. Go look at any PC mfg like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.  they aren't making dick when it comes to PCs.  Why do you think IBM got out, Compaq sold off, HP's looking to dump their PC business, Dell's trying to go private?  There's no money selling PC boxes.  It's been that way for a long time.

I respectfully but totally disagree. The iPad is NOT an answer to anything in the market at the time of launch. If anything, iPad was a question. Perhaps, the question was "What if you forsake the personal computing paradigm of screen, CPU, keyboard and mouse?" Or "what if your computing device doesn't have to do everything?" It most definitely was not an answer to the netbooks, even though it appeared to have decimated the netbooks market. Frankly, that market would have died a natural death.

 

But then, if you believe the Isaacson biography, the iPad was an answer to Bill Gates.

 

Apple is making good money making PCs, btw.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Well, I think they are doing iOS 7 because Forstall didn't want to give up the skeuomorphic look and add the features they should have added last year because they were working on Maps which they should have not released until it was less buggy in the data and how it's presented.  

 

 

Not really. iOS7 would look different if Forstall was still around. But too many people are captivated by what iOS7 *looks* like. That's not the real deal behind iOS7. It is a change of paradigm in deeper ways. The development to make this shift didn't just start 10 months ago. The parallax effect, for example, was embodied in an Apple patent application dating back a couple of years. Federighi's quips were not directed at Forstall. If we believe that, then we'd have to believe that they were directed at Jobs too. 


Edited by stelligent - 7/5/13 at 12:32pm
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

I agree with all, but with a slightly different twist.

It's good business to release something cheaper at lower margins if it is ADDITIVE (and does not cannibalize from existing lines) &/or if it strengthens BRAND (ecosystem).

With the iPad Mini, Apple KNEW it would be popular, the challenge was to produce it with high enough quality and at attractive prices points (while maintaining adequate margins).  It's the SAME challenge with smart phones right now.  Apple KNOWS that a cheaper smart phone and feature phones would be wildly popular...and will be a good business decision if Apple can do what it did with the iPad Mini.  There was definitely some cannibalization with iPad Mini which ended up reducing Gross Margins.  But seems like the net effect was more positive than negative.

I'm concerned that a cheaper iPhone may not play out as well as the iPad Mini situation.  However...I have to assume that Apple market research/survey would result in a decision WAY better than mine.

There will be no Apple feature phone. As for an inexpensive iPhone, I see one between $300-400, off contract. It'll have the internals of the 4.
post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Oh dear what a shame .... /s

If this were Apple news the stock would be halved by now, I wonder what Cramer will say about this? 1biggrin.gif

 

Watch Apple stock go down.

 

Samsung has less than expected result.

 

= Market is "saturated".

 

= Bad news for Apple.

 

= Apple shares go down.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It is impressive how they earned these record profits by only shipping but not selling millions of phones. Now that's innovation.

 

Shipping high end handsets.

 

Selling low end handsets.

 

Indicated by lower than expected profits.

 

The majority of Android users are using low and mid range handsets.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

1) Ship phones to warehouse to collect dust

2) Harvest dust

3) ???

4) Profit

 

 

1) Ship high end phones to warehouse to collect dust

2) Sell mainly low to mid range phones

3) ???

4) Less Profit than expected

5) Wall St pounding.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #78 of 92
Apple is a company that nets more than 10% of their market cap in yearly earnings, has about 40% of its market cap in cash equivalents, has authorized 15% of its market cap in buy backs, and offers a dividend and we are to believe they should have a pe of 7 or 8. It's incredible that the arguments against this company has been reduced down to a cheaper phone or wider phone for it to have reasonable value....
post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

This is Apple we are talking about. They know how to make plastic phones that don't look cheap. Remember the original iPhone?

I think he is referring to those Fisher-Price colored bodies floating around the past week. I agree those are the cheapest looking pieces of plastic I have ever seen for phone casings.
post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

I think he is referring to those Fisher-Price colored bodies floating around the past week. I agree those are the cheapest looking pieces of plastic I have ever seen for phone casings.

I think we're all hoping those are cheap Chinese knock off fakes
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