or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone

post #1 of 120
Thread Starter 
NTT DoCoMo Inc., the largest wireless carrier in Japan, has lost 3.2 million users over the last 4 and a half years without carrying the iPhone, yet the carrier remains steadfast in refusing to make a deal with Apple.

NTT DoCoMo


The carrier is focused on developing a "lifestyle system," which requires certain software to come preinstalled on phones, NTT DoCoMo CEO Kaoru Kato said in an interview with Reuters. Apple refuses to allow carriers to preinstall apps on the iPhone, and it also will not allow providers to place their logos on its devices ? another remaining issue with NTT DoCoMo.

Japan's largest carrier may also have balked at Apple's strict carrier requirements in order to offer the iPhone. As such, the company has shown no urgency to begin offering the iPhone.

But as NTT DoCoMo continues to bleed subscribers, market watchers believe that a deal to carry Apple's iPhone is an inevitability if it wants to retain its place as the top carrier in Japan. In addition to its customers, even some of NTT DoCoMo's executives are reportedly pushing for the carrier to cave and ink a deal with Apple.

NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone. The biggest prize for Apple is China Mobile, the world's largest carrier, with 715 million subscribers.

In contrast, NTT DoCoMo has 60 million subscribers, less than the roughly 100 million customers held by both Verizon and AT&T in the U.S.

The iPhone has also become the most popular smartphone in Japan, accounting for a 42 percent total share in the 2012 holiday shopping season. Sales of Samsung smartphones are only one-fifth of Apple's in the country.
post #2 of 120
“NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers around the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone.”

Uh…don’t you mean, “…around the world…”?
post #3 of 120
Stand your ground Apple! I despise 3rd party software or branding on my equipment. I love the fact that I can open up the Apple product, I paid for and see it as a true Apple product. No Intel stickers, No ATT, Verizon.... I have a nice clean piece of hardware, no bloatware and no propaganda from companies I don't care for!
post #4 of 120
"Lifestyle system" is something all PC vendors except Apple gave up years ago. Tell me how phone companies can ever compete with the number of social media sites. If this were China talking, I could see how the government would want a closed system but we're talking about Japan. Can they actually provide as good of a closed system as Apple offers? Doubt it. Adding stupid stickers to a computer is something I believe even PC users hate. If they want to add decoration to their devices it's decoration they choose not some manufacturers name like on Nascar cars. iOS can be customized but the cellular provider is the last one I'd want doing it.
post #5 of 120
Stand your ground, Apple. No bloat ware or extraneous logos on the iPhone. Hey NTT DoCoMo, put your crap app in the App Store like everyone else.
post #6 of 120

I can understand NTT DoCoMo's position. They're one of the few carriers worldwide who've managed to create custom services that users actually want. Their brand value is way higher than any Western carrier.

 

They've been leaking customers for several reasons, the largest being the fairly recent (i.e. in the last 4.5 years) introduction of number portability. I'm sure people are leaving for the iPhone too.

post #7 of 120

Agreed.  If NTT DoCoMo's lifestyle software is as good as they believe it is, then they should have no problem getting people to install it via the App Store.

 
Reply
 
Reply
post #8 of 120

It's crapware, bloatware, carrier-ware, and junk.  Apple wants the phone to be an Apple iPhone for [i]Carrier X[/i], not [i[Carrier X's iPhone[/i].  It's an Apple product, not the carrier's.  Of course, the carrier wants the opposite.  They want people to be hooked on their service through their apps, and not the phone (which they can get with any other carrier).  Apple wants the experience to be the same for all iphone users and the carriers want people to somehow think the carrier is the only one who can provide that particular service.

 

Of course, some people want to be able to delete even the standard Apple apps, but i don't see the difference between hiding them in a folder and deleting them.  They don't take up a ton of space.

post #9 of 120
I see so many people in Japan using iPhone , there is no excuse not to carry iPhones .
post #10 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

“NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers around the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone.”

Uh…don’t you mean, “…around the world…”?

 

The article actually said "NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone." I can handle fanboys or trolls but the most annoying comments are those who quote incorrectly. 

post #11 of 120

Screw 'em. Apple seems to be doing okay despite the loss. One of Apple key differentiators is the lack of carrier branding be that preinstalled apps or logos. If Apple gives it up for any one carrier, the rest will start making demands.

 

Apple seems to be doing just fine in Japan so why not stay the course?

post #12 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I can understand NTT DoCoMo's position. They're one of the few carriers worldwide who've managed to create custom services that users actually want. Their brand value is way higher than any Western carrier.

 

They've been leaking customers for several reasons, the largest being the fairly recent (i.e. in the last 4.5 years) introduction of number portability. I'm sure people are leaving for the iPhone too.

 

Thank you, for providing the slightly more detailed background that the authors of the article should have.  I know nothing about Japan's telecoms but my first thought on reading this article was that they were oversimplifying and also making some sweeping assumptions that this was all down to Apple when it likely wasn't. 

post #13 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

“NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers around the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone.”

Uh…don’t you mean, “…around the world…”?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsYoMacDaddy View Post

 

The article actually said "NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone." I can handle fanboys or trolls but the most annoying comments are those who quote incorrectly. 

 

WhoIsYoMacDaddy - MacManFelix did have it correct.  The article originally stated "...around the U.S...." and it was updated.

post #14 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsYoMacDaddy View Post

 

The article actually said "NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone." I can handle fanboys or trolls but the most annoying comments are those who quote incorrectly. 

 

Judging by how often there are typos and other errors in AppleInsider articles, what are the odds that he was correct and that the author fixed the piece silently?  

post #15 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldTightApple View Post

Stand your ground Apple! I despise 3rd party software or branding on my equipment. I love the fact that I can open up the Apple product, I paid for and see it as a true Apple product. No Intel stickers, No ATT, Verizon.... I have a nice clean piece of hardware, no bloatware and no propaganda from companies I don't care for!

So you don't have any apps?
post #16 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


So you don't have any apps?

Big difference, I think, between apps you want to install and apps that are forced on you by the carriers. And personally, I don't feel that I'm missing much not having an AT&T logo on my phone.

post #17 of 120
I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #18 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Sales of Samsung smartphones are only one-fifth of Apple's in the country.
Japanese know that "value" and "cheap" are not synonyms. They also appreciate highly evolved aesthetics. KoKoMo is shooting itself in the foot.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #19 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

I wonder why such a crap has highest customer rating every year. Care to explain?
post #20 of 120
Create your experience apps that you want to integrate and release them into the app store. Then sell some stickers for carrier branding at your stores. lol
post #21 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

There's a difference, the average iPhone user (and the vast majority) uses mail, safari, calendar, clock, etc. why make the vast majority download them?

I bet the vast majority of NTT's users don't use NTT's crap ware.
post #22 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by diz_geek View Post

 

 

WhoIsYoMacDaddy - MacManFelix did have it correct.  The article originally stated "...around the U.S...." and it was updated.

 

This is what I thought also.  

 

What the writers at AppleInsider should really do here however is use strikethrough text so the readers can see the alterations.  This is standard practice around the web. 

 

If they did this as policy, they might have a revelation in that they could see exactly how often they are fucking up and maybe takes steps to be more careful. 

post #23 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


I wonder why such a crap has highest customer rating every year. Care to explain?

No.  Has nothing to do with my point.  I don't want them on my phone, but I can't delete them, that's my point.  Allowing me to delete them would not be a massively difficult thing for Apple to do, so I think it's a bit rich how they block their partners from putting compulsory "bloatware" on their devices, when from some perspectives (mine, and some others) that's exactly what Apple does.  I don't claim to be in the majority.

 

Also, do you really think that Compass.app has anything to do with Apple's high customer sat?

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #24 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


There's a difference, the average iPhone user (and the vast majority) uses mail, safari, calendar, clock, etc. why make the vast majority download them?

 

Never said anything about Apple making the vast majority download them.  I want Apple to allow the opinionated minority to delete them.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #25 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

 

This is a good point.  While opinions differ on which apps are "bloatware" I don't know anyone who doesn't have at least a few Apple apps on the last home screen page in a folder that's invariably called "Apple crap."  

 

I find Stocks particularly bad in that only some rich capitalist from the US really wants that ever.  The vast majority of the public doesn't have any interest in the stock market and it's only really there because every Apple employee is looking at their stock options. So offensive.  

 

My biggest hate however is reserved for "Game Centre" which not only cannot be removed, it cannot be successfully deactivated because a lot of games you install, automatically wake up Game Centre and sign you in (by means of some faulty API I suppose).  I am constantly having to go to Game Centre after using a game to log myself out.  I find it a real problem that another app can sign me in without my knowledge or interaction.  

post #26 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I find Stocks particularly bad in that only some rich capitalist from the US really wants that ever. 

 

Actually, I doubt even they want it, there are far better apps for checking stocks in the App store.  I use Bloomberg, because it also has pretty good stock news.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #27 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

There's a difference, the average iPhone user (and the vast majority) uses mail, safari, calendar, clock, etc. why make the vast majority download them?

I bet the vast majority of NTT's users don't use NTT's crap ware.

I big to differ seeing as how the most popular apps are games. It's obvious that the vast majority of people use the iPhone as a hand held gaming console than for productivity.
post #28 of 120
When you pay the sort of money required for the iPhone, what you're paying for is blank slate to customise as you wish from a safe, and yes walled, environment (apart from Apple standard apps).
I think the smartphone generation looks to carriers as essentially service providers, for isn't that definition of "carrier".
Personally, I would have loved to see an integrated SIM card, which yes must be activated for a specific carrier at an Apple Store or carrier store. Since the carrier lock is essentially a software/database lock, I don't understand why carriers made such a fuss...
post #29 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I can understand NTT DoCoMo's position. They're one of the few carriers worldwide who've managed to create custom services that users actually want. Their brand value is way higher than any Western carrier.

 

They've been leaking customers for several reasons, the largest being the fairly recent (i.e. in the last 4.5 years) introduction of number portability. I'm sure people are leaving for the iPhone too.

NTT was a government owned monopoly starting back in 1952.  AT&T used to be essentially the same thing as NTT which was established back in 1885.  Kind of interesting.


At least Apple has the two others that represent basically the other half of Japan's business.

 

NTT needs to get their heads out of their collective asses.

post #30 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Also, do you really think that Compass.app has anything to do with Apple's high customer sat?

So now "Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari" are reduced to just Compass? Interesting.
post #31 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

It's obvious that the vast majority of people use the iPhone as a hand held gaming console than for productivity.
When you subtract the number of games downloaded for the iPad it becomes less obvious.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #32 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

 

Well, at least in iOS7 you'll be able to throw every single app that bugs you into a single folder, which will at most take up 1 icon on your screen. 

 

EDIT: Ok,  just noticed you pretty much listed every single built in app as "bloatware", including mail and safari, which pretty much makes you a troll. 

post #33 of 120
Doh!Coma is in denial that they are just a carrier.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #34 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsYoMacDaddy View Post

 

The article actually said "NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone." I can handle fanboys or trolls but the most annoying comments are those who quote incorrectly. 

 

Ever thought of the possibilty that AI read that post and altered their article with "outside of the U.S."?

 

Oh crud, never mind, saw that a few other brilliant people came to the same logical conclusion as I...

/

/

/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply
post #35 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Judging by how often there are typos and other errors in AppleInsider articles, what are the odds that he was correct and that the author fixed the piece silently?  

But that would mean they read these forums! /s

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #36 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

... Of course, some people want to be able to delete even the standard Apple apps, but i don't see the difference between hiding them in a folder and deleting them.  They don't take up a ton of space.

 

The difference is that many of the standard Apple apps provide services that other apps need to be able to depend on. The other difference is that it's necessary to provide certain services, that have nothing to do with carriers, on a smartphone so that all users, regardless of carrier, can have the same minimally useful user experience on a smartphone out of the box. So it's somewhat impractical to not have them baked into the firmware, especially when you consider the history of the iPhone where there was no App Store on the initial release.

 

Clearly the difference in perspective between NTT DoCoMo and Apple in this instance is that NTT DoCoMo wants all the phones on their network to be "their" phones, whereas Apple wants all iPhones to be Apple phones. NTT DoCoMo should just cut their losses and stop trying to be AOL in an age where people don't want to be locked into private Internets.

post #37 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I bet the vast majority of NTT's users don't use NTT's crap ware.

 

And you base that on...?

 

NTT DoCoMo is/was the carrier that everyone tried (and failed) to emulate. NTT DoCoMo's i-mode service is easily the most successful carrier-exclusive service of all time.

 

If you've only had experience of western carriers, it's hard to understand how different NTT DoCoMo operates.

post #38 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

I big to differ seeing as how the most popular apps are games. It's obvious that the vast majority of people use the iPhone as a hand held gaming console than for productivity.

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion. That's like saying the majority of TV users use it it play games and not watch TV since console gaming is a multi billion dollar industry.
post #39 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Thank you, for providing the slightly more detailed background that the authors of the article should have.  I know nothing about Japan's telecoms but my first thought on reading this article was that they were oversimplifying and also making some sweeping assumptions that this was all down to Apple when it likely wasn't. 

SoftBank and the iPhone are certainly the reason for DoCoMo losing so many customers over the past few years. DoCoMo's coverage is second to none in Japan, so it takes something exceptional for people to leave them.The gains that SoftBank have made have been at DoCoMo's expense and I'm fairly certain SoftBank credits the iPhone as the reason.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #40 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover View Post

I see so many people in Japan using iPhone , there is no excuse not to carry iPhones .

No excuse? They are not allowed to negotiate more favorable terms?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone