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Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

So go buy a T9 flip phone and stop whining about things you clearly don't get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I don't claim to be in the majority.

Exactly. The majority wants the iPhone just as it is.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #42 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion. That's like saying the majority of TV users use it it play games and not watch TV since console gaming is a multi billion dollar industry.

Games not other productivity apps dominate in every top app category; free, paid, and top grossing. So it's not a guess as to what the 'vast majority' of people are doing with their iPhones.
post #43 of 120
In France, each carrier and internet access provider has exclusive apps available on the App Store which work only when you are one of their customers (either by entering your credentials to access, say, TV channels, or working only on an iphone locked to them or using their network).

I don't see what keep NTT DoCoMo to do the same and provides its customers with its own exclusive apps, through Apple's AppStore, and keep its "lifestyle" as it is now.

Unless it is a matter of stickers reading "NTT DoCoMo" to be put on the iPhone%u2026
post #44 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephane36 View Post

In France, each carrier and internet access provider has exclusive apps available on the App Store which work only when you are one of their customers (either by entering your credentials to access, say, TV channels, or working only on an iphone locked to them or using their network).

I don't see what keep NTT DoCoMo to do the same and provides its customers with its own exclusive apps, through Apple's AppStore, and keep its "lifestyle" as it is now.

Unless it is a matter of stickers reading "NTT DoCoMo" to be put on the iPhone%u2026

They want the apps to be pre-installed and uninstallable.  Sort of like what carriers to with Android phones unless you root them to remove the bloatware carrier crap. If people had to go out of their way to install them it's likely very few would use them anymore and NTT DoCoMo gets tons of revenue by people using their i-mode service.

post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I entirely agree that I don't want any bloat ware on my iPhone. So much so that not being able to delete the Apple apps that I consider bloatware (Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari) bugs me.

I want Apple to be stubborn in keeping crap that I don't want or need off my phone. I wish they'd turn that stubbornness to be inward-facing.

If it bugs you so much, you can put it all in a folder, and move the folder to a separate page, no?
post #46 of 120
I still expect someone to call Apple "arrogant" and say "Timmy needs to learn to play nice with carriers or else Apple's stock prices will stay in the toilet" or similar nonsense.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #47 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

No excuse? They are not allowed to negotiate more favorable terms?

How dare you ask that? Don't you know that ALL terms must favor Apple and that Apple is the only company capable of providing a good customer experience? /s
post #48 of 120
it's great to see a carrier suffer for their obnoxious behaviour and business practices
post #49 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

No excuse? They are not allowed to negotiate more favorable terms?

They can try, they'll just need to realize that Apple's going to continue to say no whilst they lose ever more customers to the other carriers.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


How dare you ask that? Don't you know that ALL terms must favor Apple and that Apple is the only company capable of providing a good customer experience? /s
 
0/10. Hope Samsung's PR agency doesn't pay you that much.
post #50 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


So you don't have any apps?

Non-sequitur much? How exactly did you jump to the conclusion that they have no apps based on them complaining about carriers who force uninstallable crapware on their phones? You fail to see the difference between those and apps the user chooses to install themselves?

post #51 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

And you base that on...?

NTT DoCoMo is/was the carrier that everyone tried (and failed) to emulate. NTT DoCoMo's i-mode service is easily the most successful carrier-exclusive service of all time.

If you've only had experience of western carriers, it's hard to understand how different NTT DoCoMo operates.

I am aware of this. However, Apple doesn't do carrier exclusive, so there is probably going to be no deal. As long as Japanese customers have a choice, they can choose a different carrier. That's Apple's bargaining chip, and the free market forces will sort this out.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #52 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

Games not other productivity apps dominate in every top app category; free, paid, and top grossing. So it's not a guess as to what the 'vast majority' of people are doing with their iPhones.

Why does it matter what people use their iPhones for? So a lot of people use it to play games, big deal. A lot of people use it to make calls and browse the Internet too, again big deal.
post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

Games not other productivity apps dominate in every top app category; free, paid, and top grossing. So it's not a guess as to what the 'vast majority' of people are doing with their iPhones.

Are you for real? Web browsing doesn't show up in App Store statistics. Neither does checking email or scheduling appointments.
post #54 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I find Stocks particularly bad in that only some rich capitalist from the US really wants that ever.  The vast majority of the public doesn't have any interest in the stock market and it's only really there because every Apple employee is looking at their stock options. So offensive.  

One day, long after you've moved out of your parents' basement, you, too, may own stock. It may be part of your retirement plan, or it may be part of your compensation. Stock can be bought for pennies and you can open a trading account for free. I find your narrow, uninformed view to be offensive.

iPhone 5 64GB, iPhone 4S 16GB, mid-2011 iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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post #55 of 120
The Japanese adherence to tradition is their major fault, too often blinding them to reality. DoCoMo's insistence upon adding their little garden to OEM phones and then affixing their external branding is pointless relative to all the value-added advantages of instead depending upon the wealth of creative third-party apps to enrich customer experience, and adopting the award-winning iPhone as-is to elevate your business. This is a classic example of corporate self-defeat.
post #56 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

No excuse? They are not allowed to negotiate more favorable terms?

"Not allowed"? By whom? How do you go from "no excuse" to "not allowed"? Non sequitur much?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #57 of 120
Stand fast Apple. I look forward to the day when NTT DoCoMo is no longer the largest carrier in Japan.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #58 of 120

 

 

Quote:
Pressure mounts on Japan's largest carrier as it still refuses to carry Apple's iPhone

 

I missed the Pressure Mounts part of the article. Where is the pressure, and where is it coming from? 

post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 





I missed the Pressure Mounts part of the article. Where is the pressure, and where is it coming from? 

I think it's due to the loss of subscribers. It's inferred share holders don't like the loss of business.
post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I missed the Pressure Mounts part of the article. Where is the pressure, and where is it coming from? 

Market forces.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

NTT DoCoMo Inc., the largest wireless carrier in Japan, has lost 3.2 million users over the last 4 and a half years without carrying the iPhone ...
...
NTT DoCoMo is one of just a handful of major carriers outside of the U.S. that does not offer the iPhone. The biggest prize for Apple is China Mobile, the world's largest carrier, with 715 million subscribers.

In contrast, NTT DoCoMo has 60 million subscribers, less than the roughly 100 million customers held by both Verizon and AT&T in the U.S.
...

 

In other words, NTT DoCoMo needs iPhone more than Apple needs NTT DoCoMo.

Just a matter of time before NTT caves and does the deal with Apple.

 

Ganbatte kudasai ne?

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post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


So now "Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari" are reduced to just Compass? Interesting.

If you say so.

 

I can see how some, even a lot, of people might have use for Safari and Mail and maybe a couple others on that list.  I can't see how anyone can get anything useful out of Compass.

 

And yet Compass.app can't be deleted.  Just like all the other that I'd like to delete.

 

Interesting still?

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post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSince86 View Post

The Japanese adherence to tradition is their major fault, too often blinding them to reality. DoCoMo's insistence upon adding their little garden to OEM phones and then affixing their external branding is pointless relative to all the value-added advantages of instead depending upon the wealth of creative third-party apps to enrich customer experience, and adopting the award-winning iPhone as-is to elevate your business. This is a classic example of corporate self-defeat.

 

Well put.  If Verizon can cave and not put their crapware and dog-butt-ugly logo on iPhone, NTT DoCoMo can suck it up and do the same.  The bottom line will convince them.

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post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

Well, at least in iOS7 you'll be able to throw every single app that bugs you into a single folder, which will at most take up 1 icon on your screen. 

 

EDIT: Ok,  just noticed you pretty much listed every single built in app as "bloatware", including mail and safari, which pretty much makes you a troll. 

I use Mailbox and Triage instead of Mail, and I use iCab Mobile instead of Safari.  Why does that make me a troll?  These apps are available from the App Store and fit my needs better than Mail or Safari.

 

I call it bloatware if it's unnecessary to me and I can't remove it.  Sorry if I don't fit your cookie cutter idea of an iPhone user.

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post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


If it bugs you so much, you can put it all in a folder, and move the folder to a separate page, no?

I could, and I do.  But those apps are taking up room on my iPhone and spoiling my Springboard feng shui.  I just want to be able to delete them.

 

Not sure why this is such a controversial idea.  It's been brought up by many other people many times before.

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post #66 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

If you say so.

I can see how some, even a lot, of people might have use for Safari and Mail and maybe a couple others on that list.  I can't see how anyone can get anything useful out of Compass.

And yet Compass.app can't be deleted.  Just like all the other that I'd like to delete.

Interesting still?

Some? Now that is a trollish comment. The vast majority of iPhone users use Safari. I also bet a large majority uses Mail too, probably not as high as Safari users.
post #67 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I could, and I do.  But those apps are taking up room on my iPhone and spoiling my Springboard feng shui.  I just want to be able to delete them.

Not sure why this is such a controversial idea.  It's been brought up by many other people many times before.
Guess its just a case of Apple not being all things to all people. Perhaps they feel that most people either prefer these apps, or don't care. Apple might believe that these apps are part of the "Apple User Experience"--as much as icon design, home screen architecture, etc. Perhaps they're afraid some folks want to strip the phone down to use iOS as a "shell" as it were. Creating a new look that a muggle like me wouldn't recognize as Apple.

For you this is an issue, and a perfectly logical one at that. For me? Not so much. Chalk it up to the downside of the walled-garden approach.
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post #68 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


For you this is an issue, and a perfectly logical one at that. For me? Not so much. Chalk it up to the downside of the walled-garden approach.

"Open" android has this "problem" too although it's mostly third party bloat ware.
post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Market forces.
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


I think it's due to the loss of subscribers. It's inferred share holders don't like the loss of business.

 

However, that is already known and if they don't care, how is there pressure? From where? Are there reports saying that more are leaving in even higher numbers? Really, 4 years and nothing changed, I see little pressure. 

 

What market forces? If they are going in another direction, how is the market forcing them to do otherwise? 

 

This reminds me of when people say Apple has to do this, or do that, or offer this feature, or that feature as the market demands, and Apple does not, but goes in their own direction. How is this different from this telco?  

 

Quote:
The carrier is focused on developing a "lifestyle system," which requires certain software to come preinstalled on phones, NTT DoCoMo CEO Kaoru Kato said

 

It seems to me that DoCoMo has a different strategy that what fits the Apple model. If so, they must be content in this strategy, or there is something that forces them to change. I was simply asking, aside from the hype of the lead, what has taken place that is forcing their hand? 

 

I am not suggesting their strategy is good or bad, but only asked what is this mounting pressure? I just think the title is misleading when the only new news is that DoCoMo is developing  a 'lifestyle system'. Perhaps a better, less dramatic title, would have been, "DoCoMo Develops a Lifestyle System While Continually Not Offering the iPhone". 

post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


"Open" android has this "problem" too although it's mostly third party bloat ware.

Android has bigger problems. Too many competing products where only Samsung seems to make any profits since it's made from component sales from other mfg and they don't have as high costs for panels, RAM, NAND, and Processors.  Too much malware which effects the users.  Too much fragmentation which causes a head ache for the developers and bottom line. The Android problem is that it isn't profitable to sustain it. Google makes money, but I think Google actually gets more money through the iOS community than they do with their own OS platform.  The only way I see Android changing their ways is to become "closed" like Microsoft or Apple.  the problem is that they won't be that successful if they had to charge licensing fees, I'm sure that will piss off a lot of phone/tablet makers, or if they just canned everything other than Nexus based products.   They way they are structuring their OS, it's just dumb.  I saw this coming as soon as I looked at their business model. This whole thing is going to affect more the larger customers, the Enterprise market, Government, Military.  They might scrap Android over this mess.  I would if I were them. 

 

RIM doesn't appear capable of making a comeback since they might have to lay off more people hurting development of new products. They can only lay so many people off before it starts destroying their ability to develop new products and support existing customers.  Plus they aren't getting a lot of attention from Developers of software and hardware.


Apple's problems are a different set.  At least Apple makes a decent profit and the users aren't compromised.  It's just a matter of coming out with more products in a timely manner, the right product design, resolving production issues before they get out of hand, etc.  Nothing that can't be overcome without too much difficulty. 

 

Microsoft has their own problems with no one buying the Surface RT, Windows 8 adoption is not really that great of having only about 5% adoption after about 6 months on the market.

post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Some? Now that is a trollish comment. The vast majority of iPhone users use Safari. I also bet a large majority uses Mail too, probably not as high as Safari users.
You people see trolls everywhere. Get a grip.

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post #72 of 120
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You people see trolls everywhere. Get a grip.
I'll get a grip if you'd get a clue.
post #73 of 120
I don't think Apple will give in to any special request. If they really do, then all telcos around the world wants the same as what NTT DoCoMo wants.

Putting their logo on the phone it's like rebranding itself and taking a free ride on Apple's expenses. Apple will stay on course.

Just like all other Mac products where you do not see tonnes of silly Intel logos or NVidia/ATi Graphic logos at the bottom of the laptop chassis which you see on PC. We like to keep in clean and simple!
post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post

I don't think Apple will give in to any special request. If they really do, then all telcos around the world wants the same as what NTT DoCoMo wants.

Putting their logo on the phone it's like rebranding itself and taking a free ride on Apple's expenses. Apple will stay on course.

Just like all other Mac products where you do not see tonnes of silly Intel logos or NVidia/ATi Graphic logos at the bottom of the laptop chassis which you see on PC. We like to keep in clean and simple!

I do, and I've experienced it. i sent in a request back in 2000-2001 to Jobs directly and a few months later they hired a programmer that had unique expertise in exactly what i suggested and they released a later version of OS X with what I submitted and it's embedded in OS X and it will never be removed.   They did many requests that I've made over the years. Some times it took one or two revs, but they did do exactly what I suggested.   A lot of times, it's something that others are requesting as well, so they will do it if they get enough requests and it makes sense, or if it really is a good idea.   In iOS 7 they are putting many things that I requested, but there were other people that requested the same thing.  It all depends on what the requests are.  If you are asking them to do something that's stupid, then no, but they do read all of the feedback submissions and they will do things if it makes sense, if they can figure out a proper way to do it.  but if you request a dumb idea, then typically no they won't do that.  Sometimes it may take them a while to do it as there might be other things they feel are more important.

post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post

I don't think Apple will give in to any special request. If they really do, then all telcos around the world wants the same as what NTT DoCoMo wants.

Putting their logo on the phone it's like rebranding itself and taking a free ride on Apple's expenses. Apple will stay on course.

Just like all other Mac products where you do not see tonnes of silly Intel logos or NVidia/ATi Graphic logos at the bottom of the laptop chassis which you see on PC. We like to keep in clean and simple!

With regards to what a cell phone carrier requests?  Only if it makes sense.  For instance, with China Mobile, they have a proprietary system, so Apple would have to make a phone that can specifically run on their cell network that's specific to China Mobile. Some carriers don't always support FaceTime right out of the gate. Certain requests if they have to or it makes sense, they will.  But cheap promotional stickers? NOPE.  The most rebranding is having the carrier's name on the phone, which I don't think they should do.  I think all phones should be able to legally transferable from one carrier to another without having to jailbreak the thing.

post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


I'll get a grip if you'd get a clue.

 

About anything in particular?  Do I need to use the same apps as everyone else, just to fit in and have a valid opinion in your eyes?

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post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

So now "Stocks, Weather, Calendar, Compass, Voice Memos, Clock, Videos, News Stand, Games Center, Mail, Safari" are reduced to just Compass? Interesting.
If you say so.

I can see how some, even a lot, of people might have use for Safari and Mail and maybe a couple others on that list.  I can't see how anyone can get anything useful out of Compass.

And yet Compass.app can't be deleted.  Just like all the other that I'd like to delete.

Interesting still?
has it occurred to you that apps that use direction might just need to link into the backend of the compass.app to work? People might get a bit upset when their starmap doesnt work....

Mind you I would certainly like it if some of those apps could be hidden more effectively than stashing them in a folder on the last screen.
It's the heat death of the universe, my friends.
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post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropys View Post

has it occurred to you that apps that use direction might just need to link into the backend of the compass.app to work? People might get a bit upset when their starmap doesnt work....

Mind you I would certainly like it if some of those apps could be hidden more effectively than stashing them in a folder on the last screen.

I highly doubt that. I've seen feature phones with navigation and it didn't have a compass built in.
post #79 of 120
Interesting speculation.
Ml
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I could, and I do.  But those apps are taking up room on my iPhone and spoiling my Springboard feng shui.  I just want to be able to delete them.

 

Not sure why this is such a controversial idea.  It's been brought up by many other people many times before.

 

I'll just assume you're being intentionally obtuse. It's been pointed out countless times, including in this thread, that the reason you can't delete them is because they are baked into the firmware, that they are baked into the firmware partly for historical reasons and, more importantly, a) because they provide services that other apps depend on, and b) they provide a minimally useful out of the box smartphone user experience without requiring a user to install additional apps.

 

This isn't really that hard to understand, and the fact that you can point to others who apparently don't understand doesn't somehow make not understanding interesting. You might as well ask, "why can't I delete location services?" or, "why can't I delete WiFi networking?" Those are equally ignorant questions.

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