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Editorial: Apple, Google and the failure of Android's open - Page 7

post #241 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

What happens when the implementation is full of crap, as with recent BMWs?  You're stuck.   My recent experience at the dealer is a great example - my 2012 BMW needed a firmware update.  Unfortunately, the dealer's Gracenote rev was a different version from mine, so when the dealer upgraded my car's firmware, they could not backup and restore all the songs I had ripped to the car's hard drive.  They were completely erased (my dealer warned me in advance).  With an open system, there would be aftermarket tools, or I could have written something myself, to make and restore an archive of my car's music.

$1000 says that just reloading your music is quicker than any of your solutions to simply save it during the upgrade.
post #242 of 310
Quote:

Heh, is AppleInsider's content managed by Mobile Nations, as Androidcentral's apparently is? Also, the difference between the two websites mentioning rival platforms is matter of scale. 

post #243 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdeasde96 View Post

Hi I am an Android guy who saw the link in Google News and decided to read this, if I am a troll, I don't meant to be.

I think you're analysis is mostly correct, however I think your concept of success as "making money" and failure as "not making money" is wrong. Google wants to make it easy for people to click on ads, and while people might be able to block ads on their phone, they did remove ad blocking apps on the play store which means 90% of users now have no idea how to download them. Google's profit from mobile web ads has skyrocketed in the past year.

You also ignore that there are high end Android smartphones that have some advantages to iPhone. Also if success is making money, why do you consider Apple to be successful despite their stock price being so low?


I don't define success as "making money" and failure as "not making money." What I'm saying is that when it comes to a for-profit entity like Google, the "sucess" of a product or service has to translate into making money. It probably cost money to develop that product/service. If you can't recoup that investment within an acceptable timeframe, you won't be in business very long.
 

I say this to refute people's claims that Google does what it does out of some motive other than making money.

post #244 of 310
Article confuses the concept of open. And the compares the profits of a software company (Google) to a hardware company (Apple). Nonsensical comparison.
post #245 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Article confuses the concept of open. And the compares the profits of a software company (Google) to a hardware company (Apple). Nonsensical comparison.

Googs is an advertising company. It doesn't sell software. The article also compares Apple to Android vendors--why no one else is able to make a buck other than Sammy.
post #246 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Article confuses the concept of open. And the compares the profits of a software company (Google) to a hardware company (Apple). Nonsensical comparison.


Apple is not a pure hardware company. Apple is a software company too. They develop the operating system for their hardware.

post #247 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Googs is an advertising company. It doesn't sell software. The article also compares Apple to Android vendors--why no one else is able to make a buck other than Sammy.

That's a very good question. Considering Samsung devices aren't built much better than the competition it has to be marketing that's the deciding factor. I'm actually quite astounded as to how Note 2s I see. Never did I imagine that a phone that big would be so popular.
post #248 of 310
Quote:

I used the tag "ios" and there were 3 articles in 2013, 14 for "apple". AppleInsider returned 153 articles for "android" and 164 for "samsung" for the same year.

 

... Just sayin' ... ;)

 

Yes, there are a few articles that don't depict Apple in a good light but the exact same thing can be said about some of the articles in AppleInsider. This kind of mine is better then yours crap can be found on every site that specializes in one particular area of the tech world.

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post #249 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Googs is an advertising company. It doesn't sell software. The article also compares Apple to Android vendors--why no one else is able to make a buck other than Sammy.

Actually they do but they aren't meant for consumer consumption but large to medium companies and government.

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post #250 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


That's a very good question. Considering Samsung devices aren't built much better than the competition it has to be marketing that's the deciding factor. I'm actually quite astounded as to how Note 2s I see. Never did I imagine that a phone that big would be so popular.

I was also surprised, the real kicker is how many women bought them, myself included. I loved the size, it was a great device to surf on and write emails with, it was also bearable to actually use a remote desktop app. As I always have a purse with me the size wasn't really ever a concern.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #251 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

What happens when the implementation is full of crap, as with recent BMWs?  You're stuck.   My recent experience at the dealer is a great example - my 2012 BMW needed a firmware update.  Unfortunately, the dealer's Gracenote rev was a different version from mine, so when the dealer upgraded my car's firmware, they could not backup and restore all the songs I had ripped to the car's hard drive.  They were completely erased (my dealer warned me in advance).  With an open system, there would be aftermarket tools, or I could have written something myself, to make and restore an archive of my car's music.

That's strange, as it's fairly easy to backup or upload all of your music, I just use a normal USB stick and never had a problem reloading my music after a firmware upgrade, I have a 2012 Alpina B5.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #252 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I used the tag "ios" and there were 3 articles in 2013, 14 for "apple". AppleInsider returned 153 articles for "android" and 164 for "samsung" for the same year.

 

... Just sayin' ... ;)

 

Yes, there are a few articles that don't depict Apple in a good light but the exact same thing can be said about some of the articles in AppleInsider. This kind of mine is better then yours crap can be found on every site that specializes in one particular area of the tech world.

 

No objections here. Every hangout has plenty of folks trying to justify their choices by knocking down the 'other guy'. AI panders (and AI staff, you know you do) to that crowd. But hey, can you blame them? Click-bait brings in the ad impression dollars. By all appearances, AC does the same - I'm not pointing at them for it either.

 

 

I was just giggling at the assertion that the android-related sites "rarely mention" Apple or iOS - when the first example the OP pointed at was averaging an "Apple"-tagged news pieces 9 times a month (in 2012, maybe 2013 is a slower year), AND had an entire forum section devoted to it (although in fairness, there are 7 other "Other OS'es and Devices" section).

 

But yeah, it seems it's been slow for AC and really busy for AI on their respective cross-subject-posting fronts lately. :P

 

 

In 2012 I spot "iOS" and "Apple" clocking in with 48 and 108 articles, respectively, on androidcentral.com. I also see "Android" and "Samsung" scoring a whopping 219 and 357 hits on appleinsider.com for the same timespan (2012). Easily four times (4x) the number of references on AI as their counterparts on AC.

 

Interestingly, AI topics have zero hits for "apple" pieces in 2013 so far and only 55 for "ios".

AC racks up 364 hits for "Android" in 2013, and 352 "Samsung" tags.

 

Maybe Apple and iOS just aren't newsworthy (insofar as the circles that frequent sites like these are concerned). Maybe the sites have different notions on how to tag their content. Whatever. Just having my giggles. :)

post #253 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post


Apple is not a pure hardware company. Apple is a software company too. They develop the operating system for their hardware.

The biggest failure to the Android platform is consistency of OS from brand/model to brand/model in the feature sets of the OS.  Then there is the updating policies and practices.

 

ALL Android products (smartphones and tablets) should have the latest version of OS when you get the product and when the OS update is released to market, but judging from this, they would ALL have to be Nexus OS, and they would probably have to lock it down just like Windows and iOS for security reasons, and then there goes the added little features each smartphone maker add and then there's the geeks that want to circumvent the whole process because they are never happy unless they have total control over their device.

 

I don't see Google doing this.  Even Samsung is working on their own OS, Tizen which probably won't do well in the US and most of the world.  It might not even do well in their own country. It'll take them a LONG time and a LOT of marketing money to see if they can even BS enough people to buy into it, which they kind of failed at Bada.

 

Aside from Samsung, most of the Android mfg have not made any profits and any substantial sales. Even the Nexus phone doesn't sell that well. The Nexus 4 phone sold around 1 million units, which probably recoups the mfg and R&D and marketing/sales costs, but not the support costs and money left over for profits.  Just a hunch.  I wonder how many phones one company has to sell in order to break even.  


I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the lessor known brands will just simple walk away from it.

 

Or maybe some companies are desperate enough to still go after business that only brings in less then 5% ROI each year in Net Profits and they have to cut corners at every step, which is why they are lessor known brands.  Too many brands/models creates too much confusion and most of the money is only going to wind up in a couple of company's pockets which is what is happening in the PC industry.

 

if Gartner did a Magic quadrant, I think that Android should be in the bottom left for some things, the middle for others, and the top right for others, but overall not close to iOS and it stems from the lack of consistency, Enterprise ready, security, updating, level of support, and reliability/quality of products.  At least that's MY observation. From a 'getting new software and hardware features", they, in some respects, do seem to have a lot of features faster than IOS, but a lot of them are only available on one model and not brand/model wide and some of these features are either not practical or not features that people seem to use.  Android seems more like a hot bed for software development with no one taking control over the destiny,  lots of cooks in the kitchen with pretty much no management and organization.

 

For the Enterprise market, I would think that Android should probably not even be a consideration. Too many negatives about the platform.  Unless the military wanted to develop their own OS with it's own hardware features, but they would then have something custom made for them and I don't know if they would buy enough units to justify the R&D. Maybe they could. But they might be a candidate for their own custom made model, but it wouldn't be sold on the open market. But which mainstream apps would they want to use and would they even be available on Android? 

 

Bottom line, I think that because Samsung has been throwing out a bunch of SPIFF money to sales reps to PUSH their Galaxy phones onto the consumer that the average consumer listens to the media hype walks into a store and if it's not an Apple Store, they are more likely going to buy something that the rep tells them to buy, or some marketing campaign because a lot of consumers are too confused.  Apple made a lot of sales, because THEY had the original idea and got the media attention to it, and then sleazy Android products came out.  Apple's biggest setbacks was keeping Forstall overseeing iOS, relying on Samsung for components, and then the Maps/Siri issues in the beginning.  I think the new group (Federighi and Ive) have a lot more on the ball and this first iOS release under them is probably going to be a pretty good comeback and then iOS 8 might push Apple even further back into the lead.  Then it's a matter of Apple getting production up to speed and coming out with multiple models of iPhones to go after the large, medium and small screen markets.  That's MY opinion.  It will be interesting if Apple pulls out Fingerprint ID technology and that it works well.  That could be a HUGE selling point for the Enterprise customer.  Also, how well new screen technology is going to work, and then it's just a matter of coming out with the really useful OS features and case design.


Edited by drblank - 7/9/13 at 2:06pm
post #254 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post

 

No objections here. Every hangout has plenty of folks trying to justify their choices by knocking down the 'other guy'. AI panders (and AI staff, you know you do) to that crowd. But hey, can you blame them? Click-bait brings in the ad impression dollars. By all appearances, AC does the same - I'm not pointing at them for it either.

 

 

I was just giggling at the assertion that the android-related sites "rarely mention" Apple or iOS - when the first example the OP pointed at was averaging an "Apple"-tagged news pieces 9 times a month (in 2012, maybe 2013 is a slower year), AND had an entire forum section devoted to it (although in fairness, there are 7 other "Other OS'es and Devices" section).

 

But yeah, it seems it's been slow for AC and really busy for AI on their respective cross-subject-posting fronts lately. :P

 

 

In 2012 I spot "iOS" and "Apple" clocking in with 48 and 108 articles, respectively, on androidcentral.com. I also see "Android" and "Samsung" scoring a whopping 219 and 357 hits on appleinsider.com for the same timespan (2012). Easily four times (4x) the number of references on AI as their counterparts on AC.

 

Interestingly, AI topics have zero hits for "apple" pieces in 2013 so far and only 55 for "ios".

AC racks up 364 hits for "Android" in 2013, and 352 "Samsung" tags.

 

Maybe Apple and iOS just aren't newsworthy (insofar as the circles that frequent sites like these are concerned). Maybe the sites have different notions on how to tag their content. Whatever. Just having my giggles. :)

I think you hit the nail on the head, am I saying that correctly, in regards to Apple news worthiness on Android Central, the Apple topics don't seem to draw a heavy enough crowd. This is the first time me checking out Android Central so I'm just assuming here but it seems to be more of a technical site. The General discussion area where you would find the articles on Apple related issues has a pretty low thread count when compared to say the, How To section or discussion on popular Android devices. I'm sure there are better examples of Apple hating sites then Android Central because what I'm seeing so far it's pretty tame in this regard at least when compared to here.

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post #255 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

The biggest failure to the Android platform is consistency of OS from brand/model to brand/model in the feature sets of the OS.  Then there is the updating policies and practices.

 

ALL Android products (smartphones and tablets) should have the latest version of OS when you get the product and when the OS update is released to market, but judging from this, they would ALL have to be Nexus OS, and they would probably have to lock it down just like Windows and iOS for security reasons, and then there goes the added little features each smartphone maker add and then there's the geeks that want to circumvent the whole process because they are never happy unless they have total control over their device.

 

I don't see Google doing this.  Even Samsung is working on their own OS, Tizen which probably won't do well in the US and most of the world.  It might not even do well in their own country. It'll take them a LONG time and a LOT of marketing money to see if they can even BS enough people to buy into it, which they kind of failed at Bada.

 

Aside from Samsung, most of the Android mfg have not made any profits and any substantial sales. Even the Nexus phone doesn't sell that well. The Nexus 4 phone sold around 1 million units, which probably recoups the mfg and R&D and marketing/sales costs, but not the support costs and money left over for profits.  Just a hunch.  I wonder how many phones one company has to sell in order to break even.  


I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the lessor known brands will just simple walk away from it.

 

Or maybe some companies are desperate enough to still go after business that only brings in less then 5% ROI each year in Net Profits and they have to cut corners at every step, which is why they are lessor known brands.  Too many brands/models creates too much confusion and most of the money is only going to wind up in a couple of company's pockets which is what is happening in the PC industry.

 

if Gartner did a Magic quadrant, I think that Android should be in the bottom left for some things, the middle for others, and the top right for others, but overall not close to iOS and it stems from the lack of consistency, Enterprise ready, security, updating, level of support, and reliability/quality of products.  At least that's MY observation. From a 'getting new software and hardware features", they, in some respects, do seem to have a lot of features faster than IOS, but a lot of them are only available on one model and not brand/model wide and some of these features are either not practical or not features that people seem to use.  Android seems more like a hot bed for software development with no one taking control over the destiny,  lots of cooks in the kitchen with pretty much no management and organization.

 

For the Enterprise market, I would think that Android should probably not even be a consideration. Too many negatives about the platform.  Unless the military wanted to develop their own OS with it's own hardware features, but they would then have something custom made for them and I don't know if they would buy enough units to justify the R&D. Maybe they could. But they might be a candidate for their own custom made model, but it wouldn't be sold on the open market. But which mainstream apps would they want to use and would they even be available on Android? 

 

 

The Google Nexus 4 failed because of lack of marketing and availability. Outside of Google's Play Store very few mobile company's carried it. Your military has been using Android phones for a few years now.

 

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/special-forces-want-android-apps-for-warzone-john-maddens/

http://www.csoonline.com/article/732794/pentagon-nod-shows-android-can-be-as-secure-as-blackberry

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/tech/mobile/government-android-phones

http://tech2.in.com/news/software/pentagon-picks-android-over-apple-for-us-militarys-use/268212

http://www.geek.com/android/us-military-approves-samsung-android-phones-running-knox-1554280/

 

Because of Knox you are going to see a very large increase of enterprise and governments using Android phones. Is this a good thing, who knows but I'm sure Apple will follow suit with something similar.

 

I was really upset when Nokia canceled their Meego's OS. Out of all the mobile OS's I have ever used it was by far my favorite. My Nokia N9 is still one of the coolest phones out there, even today. Samsung and Jolla resurrecting this OS has me very excited, if Samsung doesn't screw it up I will defiantly be a early adapter. I have already pre-ordered a Jolla phone.


Edited by Relic - 7/9/13 at 2:32pm
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post #256 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 

 

The Google Nexus 4 failed because of lack of marketing and availability. Outside of Google's Play Store very few mobile company's carried it. Your military has been using Android phones for a few years now.

 

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/special-forces-want-android-apps-for-warzone-john-maddens/

http://www.csoonline.com/article/732794/pentagon-nod-shows-android-can-be-as-secure-as-blackberry

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/tech/mobile/government-android-phones

http://tech2.in.com/news/software/pentagon-picks-android-over-apple-for-us-militarys-use/268212

http://www.geek.com/android/us-military-approves-samsung-android-phones-running-knox-1554280/

 

Because of Knox you are going to see a very large increase of enterprise and governments using Android phones. Is this a good thing, who knows but I'm sure Apple will follow suit with something similar.

 

I was really upset when Nokia canceled their Meego's OS. Out of all the mobile OS's I have ever used it was by far my favorite. My Nokia N9 is still one of the coolest phones out there, even today. Samsung and Jolla resurrecting this OS has me very excited, if Samsung doesn't screw it up I will defiantly be a early adapter. I have already pre-ordered a Jolla phone.

The first problem Samsung has with ANYTHING is that they have to take at least 6 months AFTER Google releases a new version of Android.    That's the problem.


Remember the S3?  What OS is it running? It's not running 4.2.2.  It's running, I believe 4.1.1.  Well, to me, Samsung just updates their OSs for one year and then they kind of lose interest, because they are on to the next latest and greatest model.  I don't keep track of every little tiny detail of Android because they've already proven to me that they have no clue. The problem is everyone has to wait for Google to release an update, and then it's a 6 month process after that if they even bother. That pushes out he updates.


Let's say there was a new security flaw or bug in the OS that emerged today.  How long would it take for your Samsung phone to get an update?  It would take Google at least a couple of months for their portion and then another 6 months for Samsung.  You would be looking at around 9 months or maybe longer for just a simple fix or security update.  9 months waiting period, if not longer?  THAT'S A FAIL.  With Apple, you would probably wait around 2 to maybe 3 months..  They've got the track record of probably the quickest updating process than anyone, ONCE they have identified there is a software problem.  I'm sure Knox might be great, according to Samsung, but this updating process Google/OEM mfg have is NOT going to react fast enough. That problem is inherent in the way the platform is set up.

 

 

There is NO other computing platform of smartphone, tablet, computer where they have 93% market adoption. Apple has 93% market adoption within the iOS community.  That is SIGNIFICANT.  With iOS 7, they might have some hold outs initially, but if they can get 93% market adoption within a year, then it makes Apple's job easier because then they can work on the next OS and not have to deal with OSs that are 2 or 3 generations old.  


Edited by drblank - 7/9/13 at 2:42pm
post #257 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

The first problem Samsung has with ANYTHING is that they have to take at least 6 months AFTER Google releases a new version of Android.    That's the problem.


Remember the S3?  What OS is it running? It's not running 4.2.2.  It's running, I believe 4.1.1.  Well, to me, Samsung just updates their OSs for one year and then they kind of lose interest, because they are on to the next latest and greatest model.  I don't keep track of every little tiny detail of Android because they've already proven to me that they have no clue. The problem is everyone has to wait for Google to release an update, and then it's a 6 month process after that if they even bother. That pushes out he updates.


Let's say there was a new security flaw or bug in the OS that emerged today.  How long would it take for your Samsung phone to get an update?  It would take Google at least a couple of months for their portion and then another 6 months for Samsung.  You would be looking at around 9 months or maybe longer for just a simple fix or security update.  9 months waiting period, if not longer?  THAT'S A FAIL.  With Apple, you would probably wait around 2 to maybe 3 months..  They've got the track record of probably the quickest updating process than anyone, ONCE they have identified there is a software problem.  I'm sure Knox might be great, according to Samsung, but this updating process Google/OEM mfg have is NOT going to react fast enough. That problem is inherent in the way the platform is set up.

Samsung S3 Android 4.2.2 release date. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/22106/20130624/samsung-galaxy-s3-update-release-date-android-4-2-july.htm So 5 months, not to bad, here it is if you can't wait for the OTA version. http://hotfile.com/dl/230040788/eefcbf7/I9300XXUFME7_I9300OXAFME7_OXA.zip.html

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post #258 of 310
Quote:

You just confirmed that it takes 6 MONTHS after Google releases their update.  4.2.2 came out in February.


What about the S2, S1, and the rest of their products that don't even run Jelly Bean, for which represents a bigger portion of their install base.  Remember, Gingerbread phones are STILL being sold and have about 35% market share. Then there's the ICE Cream Sandwich, which is about 26% or so. 

I have an old iPhone 4, and I ran iOS 6 the day it was released, and iOS 7 comes out, and minor bug fixes, the day they get public release.  Android?  They have to wait for the OEM to deal with it and that's a 6 month additional wait, if they decide to upgrade your phone.

post #259 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Samsung S3 Android 4.2.2 release date. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/22106/20130624/samsung-galaxy-s3-update-release-date-android-4-2-july.htm So 5 months, not to bad, here it is if you can't wait for the OTA version. http://hotfile.com/dl/230040788/eefcbf7/I9300XXUFME7_I9300OXAFME7_OXA.zip.html

Relic, again, you failed to READ and COMPREHEND the inherent flaw within the Android model.  Obviously, you sound like you don't have IT management skills, because that's what IT managers SHOULD be and ARE looking at.

 

I've dealt with more companies and IT managers over a longer period time than you have.  A feature is a feature, but how does the model work in supporting the hardware?  I wouldn't even TALK to an Android OEM or Google about there model because they don't have much IT management experience either.  They are an internet services company that derives their money from ads on Google Search and YouTube videos.

post #260 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Samsung S3 Android 4.2.2 release date. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/22106/20130624/samsung-galaxy-s3-update-release-date-android-4-2-july.htm So 5 months, not to bad, here it is if you can't wait for the OTA version. http://hotfile.com/dl/230040788/eefcbf7/I9300XXUFME7_I9300OXAFME7_OXA.zip.html

I don't anyone that's actually taken the time to do the research, but out of all of the developers for iOS, how many DON'T develop for Android smartphone and tablets?  I already know a bunch.  Trust me, that's why there are always more apps on iOS, more developers on that platform than Android.

 


Heck, there's home/business automation companies that don't support Android and are IOS only.  Savant Systems.  It may not be something that everyone buys, but their entire company thrives on iOS and Mac and it's a high end solution and they have tons of industry awards for what they do.  There are others in specific industries that DO NOT support Android for application development.  Updating an OS, fragmentation in the platform, security problems, etc. are the reasons why.  Nothing personal.

post #261 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Samsung S3 Android 4.2.2 release date. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/22106/20130624/samsung-galaxy-s3-update-release-date-android-4-2-july.htm So 5 months, not to bad, here it is if you can't wait for the OTA version. http://hotfile.com/dl/230040788/eefcbf7/I9300XXUFME7_I9300OXAFME7_OXA.zip.html

Right now today, only 36 Million users of 4.2.2, over the next couple of months it might go up to around 100 Million once S3 update comes out and people actually know to update their phone, but that's still a far cry from the 900 Million in the Android market.

post #262 of 310

The only way the Android model has even a chance at being a viable alternative to iOS, is if Google decided to sell Android to Samsung and then all of the other Android OEMs fell off the face of the planet.  Is that going to happen?  NOPE.l  Not unless Google just gave up, which I doubt they will.  They'll just try to hide their own flaws as much as possible by not addressing them publicly like they don't address other problems.

post #263 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Obviously, you sound like you don't have IT management skills, because that's what IT managers SHOULD be and ARE looking at.

I'm not an IT manager, programming manager, big difference. As long as I can run my programs on the hardware that's given to me and the platform has decent development tools I really don't care who makes it or what OS it runs on. For personal use I prefer a platform that is opened, though I use and enjoy my iPad.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #264 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I don't anyone that's actually taken the time to do the research, but out of all of the developers for iOS, how many DON'T develop for Android smartphone and tablets?  I already know a bunch.  Trust me, that's why there are always more apps on iOS, more developers on that platform than Android.

 

Top 100 apps on Apple Store, http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/paid-apps/ let's see, yep, over 95% of them are also available on Android. Top 200, yep, them too, Top 300, yeppers. Yes, Apple Store makes more money but don't kid your self, the most popular apps are available on both sides of the field.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #265 of 310

Look, I don't really care what you do and don't like. You've made it abundantly clear that you dislike Android, no hate Android and that 75 percent of smartphone users are idiots because their running Android, Windows 8, Symbian or other. I don't think there is anything else that you can possibly say that will get you're point across anymore clearer. So let's just leave it alone, so, yaaay you win, here's a cookie.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #266 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I'm not an IT manager, programming manager, big difference. As long as I can run my programs on the hardware that's given to me and the platform has decent development tools I really don't care who makes it or what OS it runs on. For personal use I prefer a platform that is opened, though I use and enjoy my iPad.

IT managers are the one's responsible for company wide decisions. programmers, which are just for development of apps, just look at customization because that's your training.  You aren't paid to manage devices for lot of employees.  in all my years of interacting with corporations and government, programmers are pretty low on the list in pecking order for platform decision making for a decent sized company that has an IT staff, etc.

 

So far, a lot of companies don't have traditional IT people making decisions on telephony,  that's why they give the decision making to someone with a Telco background.

 

I used to deal with Cisco and understood their challenges in getting VoIP. They normally dealt with Teleco mentality not IT mentality. BIG DIFFERENCE.  Telco Managers don't want to give up their control to IT, because it then makes them obsolete, which is why it's taken a while for Companies to Adopt VoIP from Cisco.  But Cisco talking to iT people?  Slam dunk.  Cisco talking to Telco managers?  Not a slam dunk.  I know this is slightly Off Topic, but phones would NORMALLY fall under Teleco, if a large org has a Telco Management separate from IT management.  

 

Before the Smartphone, companies were buying regular smartphones much like a pager, dumb devices, if you will.  But the Smartphone now falls in the laps of IT management due to apps and various connectivity to the networks.

 

Knox might be great, but Apple can and probably will address those if they need to.  Obviously from brief reading, they are cutting out that SHARING of data for certain things.  Bumping phones through NFC?  I thought that was dumb to begin with.  It's funny for an ad, but real life? Come on, some child came up with that one.

post #267 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

IT managers are the one's responsible for company wide decisions. programmers, which are just for development of apps, just look at customization because that's your training.  You aren't paid to manage devices for lot of employees.  in all my years of interacting with corporations and government, programmers are pretty low on the list in pecking order for platform decision making for a decent sized company that has an IT staff, etc.

 

That's what I said, I'm a programmer not a IT person. I have very little input in what we use, all I can do is put in my to cents which usually ends up on deaf ears. That's why our company uses Blackberry Z10's and Q10's now.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #268 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Samsung S3 Android 4.2.2 release date. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/22106/20130624/samsung-galaxy-s3-update-release-date-android-4-2-july.htm So 5 months, not to bad, here it is if you can't wait for the OTA version. http://hotfile.com/dl/230040788/eefcbf7/I9300XXUFME7_I9300OXAFME7_OXA.zip.html

Not to be an ass about it.  I've talked to various people in IT or upper management and their attitude towards programmers.  Upper management/ IT Management staff think programmers are geeks that you lock in a room with Jolt Cola and pizza you slide under the door and they don't emerge until their code is finished.  That's the stereotype of programmers.  That's how it was since the early 80's when i first started working for a tech company.  I've been around hardware and software programmers.  A friend of mine took me out to lunch a couple of times with one the top programmers that was employee number 12 at Oracle.  Great person, cool as heck, fun to hang out with, but he was only at Oracle to do his job which was sitting in a room writing code.  In fact my brother is a programmer that writes Llinux code for a specialty device that's in a specific industry, but that's what Linux is good at.  hardware is cheap, software is free, and you just write your code for a specific product, and then lock it down so there's no access from the outside world to monkey with it.  But smart phones?  Only if they did what Apple and Microsoft are doing which is locking down the customization and keeping it away from the children, if you will.  Programmers tend to make lousy managers unless they just have good management skills, which is rare for programmers. Most programmers don't usually shower much, opinionated, think they rule the earth, and don't look at things from a business perspective. That's typical of programmers.

post #269 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

Knox might be great, but Apple can and probably will address those if they need to.  Obviously from brief reading, they are cutting out that SHARING of data for certain things.  Bumping phones through NFC?  I thought that was dumb to begin with.  It's funny for an ad, but real life? Come on, some child came up with that one.

 

I like NFC in speakers, I have a couple of cute white Nokia speakers that I bought with the purchase of my Nokia N9. When I'm listening to a Podcast in the car all I have to do is pause it when I get home, walk into the kitchen touch my speakers and the Podcast will continue playing. That's pretty neat but that's all I use it for, oh wait I bought a Coke once using it 1biggrin.gif.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #270 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Not to be an ass about it.  I've talked to various people in IT or upper management and their attitude towards programmers.  Upper management/ IT Management staff think programmers are geeks that you lock in a room with Jolt Cola and pizza you slide under the door and they don't emerge until their code is finished.  That's the stereotype of programmers.  That's how it was since the early 80's when i first started working for a tech company.  I've been around hardware and software programmers.  A friend of mine took me out to lunch a couple of times with one the top programmers that was employee number 12 at Oracle.  Great person, cool as heck, fun to hang out with, but he was only at Oracle to do his job which was sitting in a room writing code.  In fact my brother is a programmer that writes Llinux code for a specialty device that's in a specific industry, but that's what Linux is good at.  hardware is cheap, software is free, and you just write your code for a specific product, and then lock it down so there's no access from the outside world to monkey with it.  But smart phones?  Only if they did what Apple and Microsoft are doing which is locking down the customization and keeping it away from the children, if you will.  Programmers tend to make lousy managers unless they just have good management skills, which is rare for programmers. Most programmers don't usually shower much, opinionated, think they rule the earth, and don't look at things from a business perspective. That's typical of programmers.

I don't program as much as I would like, I spend most of my time writing up specs, meetings, traveling, taking complaints, ect. when I am programming it's because someone is stuck or debugging a problem. I am also a trader, I hold over 12 trading certificates in the US, Europe and Asian markets. I understand the needs of our traders, pilots and am able to dictate those needs to my staff, that's where my real strengths lie.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #271 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 

That's what I said, I'm a programmer not a IT person. I have very little input in what we use, all I can do is put in my to cents which usually ends up on deaf ears. That's why our company uses Blackberry Z10's and Q10's now.

That's why Programmers should not be advising people on what platform to choose.

They can advise on what features they can write, etc. etc.  But management decisions? NOPE.  Sorry, sales people trying to help a customer decide what to buy? Only if they are another programmer doing something similar like programming tools.

post #272 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Right now today, only 36 Million users of 4.2.2, over the next couple of months it might go up to around 100 Million once S3 update comes out and people actually know to update their phone, but that's still a far cry from the 900 Million in the Android market.

Android updates are OTA and forced on a user.
post #273 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I don't program as much as I would like, I spend most of my time writing up specs, meetings, traveling, taking complaints, ect. when I am programming it's because someone is stuck or debugging a problem. I am also a trader, I hold over 12 trading certificates in the US, Europe and Asian markets. I understand the needs of our traders, pilots and am able to dictate those needs to my staff, that's where my real strengths lie.

Traders?  What do you mean traders?  Commodity, Stock?  

 

Yeah, I think you should stay away at advising people on Android vs. iOS.

 

Heck, I used to burn EPROMs on an old INTEL development machine when nobody was around to do it, so we could test a new version EPROM back in the early 80's.  I used to wear a lot of hats while going to college, but I ended up in IT sales and Enterprise Software sales because I used to like being around technology and helping customers make informed decisions as to their needs were, etc. and had to have SOME technical abilities to discuss things with specialists to come up with a hardware, software, services solution.

 

The Mac vs PC debate is old, now it's IOS vs. Android debate and So far, Apple's done a VERY good job in getting their act together and they needed to get on a Unix platform to do it. because old Mac OS wasn't Unix, it was Unix kind of.  I knew it a LONG time ago, but I still had high hopes for Apple and they usually take care of business. They just couldn't go after the Enterprise market on the desktop and server but know they are getting more acceptance, again because they can run any modern day OS. IOS, they were just brilliant in coming out with it, but needed their OS X guys to get their hands around it with the right management, which they NOW have.  Forstall was the flaw from what I can tell.

post #274 of 310

I originally started out as a lonely programmer then became a trader, mostly Eurex (Futures) and Euronext (indicies) until I got very sick. I was in and out of the hospital for about a year, weekly chemotherapy almost killed me so when I decided it was time to return to work I changed careers back to being a programmer, less stress. However since I had a background in trading as well as programming I was asked to temporally take over the managing role as the guy who had it before transferred to our Hong Kong office. It's been two years now and I haven't been asked to step down so it seems like everything is working out.1smile.gif


Edited by Relic - 7/9/13 at 4:10pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #275 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

That's why Programmers should not be advising people on what platform to choose.

They can advise on what features they can write, etc. etc.  But management decisions? NOPE.  Sorry, sales people trying to help a customer decide what to buy? Only if they are another programmer doing something similar like programming tools.

What, it wasn't my idea to use Blackberry's. I actually wanted iPhone's so I could go to Apple conferences and call it work related. It was the IT guys that thought the BlackBerry's were the way to go. In all fairness they are pretty good phones and extremely easy to write for, so I guess it worked out in the end.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #276 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post

No objections here. Every hangout has plenty of folks trying to justify their choices by knocking down the 'other guy'. AI panders (and AI staff, you know you do) to that crowd. But hey, can you blame them? Click-bait brings in the ad impression dollars. By all appearances, AC does the same - I'm not pointing at them for it either.


I was just giggling at the assertion that the android-related sites "rarely mention" Apple or iOS - when the first example the OP pointed at was averaging an "Apple"-tagged news pieces 9 times a month (in 2012, maybe 2013 is a slower year), AND had an entire forum section devoted to it (although in fairness, there are 7 other "Other OS'es and Devices" section).
 
But yeah, it seems it's been slow for AC and really busy for AI on their respective cross-subject-posting fronts lately. :P


In 2012 I spot "iOS" and "Apple" clocking in with 48 and 108 articles, respectively, on androidcentral.com. I also see "Android" and "Samsung" scoring a whopping 219 and 357 hits on appleinsider.com for the same timespan (2012). Easily four times (4x) the number of references on AI as their counterparts on AC.


Interestingly, AI topics have zero hits for "apple" pieces in 2013 so far and only 55 for "ios".
AC racks up 364 hits for "Android" in 2013, and 352 "Samsung" tags.


Maybe Apple and iOS just aren't newsworthy (insofar as the circles that frequent sites like these are concerned). Maybe the sites have different notions on how to tag their content. Whatever. Just having my giggles. 1smile.gif

What's the total article count for both sites and how are they tagged?
post #277 of 310

One of the better editorials I've read in quite some time. A great read with spot-on analysis. Thanks!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #278 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Article confuses the concept of open. And the compares the profits of a software company (Google) to a hardware company (Apple). Nonsensical comparison.


Apple is not a pure hardware company. Apple is a software company too. They develop the operating system for their hardware.

Apple is pretty much a software company that makes its money selling its hardware by exclusively bundling it with their software.
Not to knock Apple's hardware, it's good; often it's better, but it's not "ten times better" to use a famous Jobs metric as to what it takes for people to switch platforms.
Their software is what makes the big difference between Apple and non-Apple, and so even though their software is cheap or free, it only runs on Apple hardware, and that's where the margins are.

So it's a really interesting type of product bundling, where the truly distinctive part of the product offering is the cheap part, but it's used to sell the less unique, higher-margin part of the bundle.
post #279 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

You just confirmed that it takes 6 MONTHS after Google releases their update.  4.2.2 came out in February.


What about the S2, S1, and the rest of their products that don't even run Jelly Bean, for which represents a bigger portion of their install base.  Remember, Gingerbread phones are STILL being sold and have about 35% market share. Then there's the ICE Cream Sandwich, which is about 26% or so. 

I have an old iPhone 4, and I ran iOS 6 the day it was released, and iOS 7 comes out, and minor bug fixes, the day they get public release.  Android?  They have to wait for the OEM to deal with it and that's a 6 month additional wait, if they decide to upgrade your phone.

 

Would the update situation be much different If Samsung maintained its own proprietary OS instead of letting Google do most of the heavy lifting? Why would they feel any more motivated to update their older devices? 


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/9/13 at 11:07pm
post #280 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Your military has been using Android phones for a few years now.

 

...

 

Because of Knox you are going to see a very large increase of enterprise and governments using Android phones. Is this a good thing, who knows but I'm sure Apple will follow suit with something similar.

 

Follow?  Not so much.  iOS6 already had FIPS 140-2 encryption baked in and approved by NIST and got STIG approval shortly after Samsung and BB.  Given the numbers of iOS devices already under trial there will likely be far more iOS devices deployed than Samsung Galaxies in 2014.

 

"A key objective of the Commercial Mobile Device Implementation Plan is to establish a department-wide mobile enterprise solution that permits the use of the latest commercial technology such as smart phones and tablets, and the development of an enterprise mobile device management capability and application store to support approximately 100,000 multivendor devices by February 2014. DoD currently has more than 600,000 commercial mobile devices in operational and pilot use, including approximately 470,000 Blackberries, 41,000 Apple Operating Systems and 8,700 Android Systems."

 

http://www.disa.mil/News/PressResources/2013/STIG-Apple

 

41K vs 8,700.  Note that neither Samsung nor Apple has an approved MDM yet and only Blackberry has one.  The unified MDM contract was only awarded on 1 July.

 

And Apple has a huge enterprise footprint relative to Android using the Good MDM.  It doesn't need to follow Knox because it's already been there starting with the 3GS and 256 bit AES hardware support in 2009.

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