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Editorial: Apple, Google and the failure of Android's open - Page 8

post #281 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


Android updates are OTA and forced on a user.

 

What do you mean by "forced on"? 

 

My Galaxy Nexus and my iPad look the same to me. I'm notified when an update's available. I don't have to install it. I usually wait a couple weeks to see what early adopter reviews and bug reports look like. 

post #282 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

What do you mean by "forced on"? 

My Galaxy Nexus and my iPad look the same to me. I'm notified when an update's available. I don't have to install it. I usually wait a couple weeks to see what early adopter reviews and bug reports look like. 

So you keep hitting cancel on the notification that pops up every 5 minutes?
post #283 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


So you keep hitting cancel on the notification that pops up every 5 minutes?

 

I honestly haven't noticed that. I'll pay more attention next time.

post #284 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

I honestly haven't noticed that. I'll pay more attention next time.

How could you not notice? You can't do anything with the device unless you hit cancel.
post #285 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


How could you not notice? You can't do anything with the device unless you hit cancel.

 

The clear implication of my previous message is that I'm not seeing a notification every 5 minutes. I think I would remember, too. Perhaps our notification settings are different.

post #286 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

The clear implication of my previous message is that I'm not seeing a notification every 5 minutes. I think I would remember, too. Perhaps our notification settings are different.

No, that's not a notification that one can adjust. It might not be 5 minutes but it's definitely not longer than 15.
post #287 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


No, that's not a notification that one can adjust. It might not be 5 minutes but it's definitely not longer than 15.

 

If your phone is a HTC phone you can turn off the update notifications.

"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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post #288 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

If your phone is a HTC phone you can turn off the update notifications.

 

Mine's a Galaxy Nexus, unrooted, so no manufacturer overlay. I'm pretty sure I just got a software update notification when it first arrived. It was persistent (not swipable), but it didn't pop to the top constantly.

post #289 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

How could you not notice? You can't do anything with the device unless you hit cancel.

 

What kind of device was it ?

post #290 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

What kind of device was it ?

A GNex
post #291 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

A GNex

 

I see.  The Google Nexus is different, then.  I have a bunch of Android devices in my lab, and software updates are usually just put in the notification area, instead of being popups.

 

For example, my HTC Flyer is constantly putting in a notification entry that an update is available (which I ignore because I like having the current orientation specific hardware buttons).  But it's not an in-my-face popup.

 

Might I ask why you didn't install the update to get rid of the notice?  Was it because you had a custom ROM, and also that particular ROM didn't have update notices turned off?

 

Thanks for clearing up the mystery!


Edited by KDarling - 7/11/13 at 6:00am
post #292 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

I see.  The Google Nexus is different, then.  I have a bunch of Android devices in my lab, and software updates are usually just put in the notification area, instead of being popups.

For example, my HTC Flyer is constantly putting in a notification entry that an update is available (which I ignore because I like having the current orientation specific hardware buttons).  But it's not an in-my-face popup.

Might I ask why you didn't install the update to get rid of the notice?  Was it because you had a custom ROM, and also that particular ROM didn't have update notices turned off?


Thanks for clearing up the mystery!

Rooted, updates break root. I was really busy that day and didn't have time to flash the rooted update until the next day.
post #293 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Because of Knox you are going to see a very large increase of enterprise and governments using Android phones. 

 

Samsung specifically, since Knox is their implementation of the secure kernel done by NSA.

 

Samsung nears deal for FBI and Navy purchases - WSJ

 

Knox allows for both a personal and a business partition, each totally isolated from the other.

post #294 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Samsung specifically, since Knox is their implementation of the secure kernel done by NSA.

 

Samsung nears deal for FBI and Navy purchases - WSJ

 

Knox allows for both a personal and a business partition, each totally isolated from the other.

So, how do they handle email accounts, other than they are protected by passwords? If someone gets into your system with a user password, how do they prevent someone from looking all of one's email?  

post #295 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

So, how do they handle email accounts, other than they are protected by passwords? If someone gets into your system with a user password, how do they prevent someone from looking all of one's email?  

https://www.samsung.com/global/business/business-images/resource/white-paper/2013/06/Samsung_KNOX_whitepaper_June-0.pdf

Samsung KNOX allows a “Work” container to be setup for corporate applications such as email, calendar, browser, storage clients, and so on, and the container will ensure that any data downloaded from the enterprise, such as email attachments and files, cannot be accessed by applications outside the container. All the data stored by applications inside the container are encrypted via strong encryption algorithms (AES-256). A password is required to gain access to applications inside the container.
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post #296 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


https://www.samsung.com/global/business/business-images/resource/white-paper/2013/06/Samsung_KNOX_whitepaper_June-0.pdf

Samsung KNOX allows a “Work” container to be setup for corporate applications such as email, calendar, browser, storage clients, and so on, and the container will ensure that any data downloaded from the enterprise, such as email attachments and files, cannot be accessed by applications outside the container. All the data stored by applications inside the container are encrypted via strong encryption algorithms (AES-256). A password is required to gain access to applications inside the container.

What a hassle.  I would just simply buy my employees the phone of choice and tell them that this is for company business only and to buy their own phone for personal use and keep the data separate.  Then the user doesn't have constantly type in passwords.

 

I've never worked for a company that supplied phones to their employees, but if they did, I would keep the phones separate. One for business, one for personal and leave it at that.  Combing the two makes administration more difficult.  Same thing goes with computers.  That's why I tried to keep my personal stuff on my own computer and business related stuff on the corporate supplied computer.  makes things much easier.  Especially since I don't want some one at the company snooping through my personal emails, photos, etc.  Plus people don't work at a company forever, so it's a nightmare having to deal with migrating personal stuff off of a company supplied computer.

post #297 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Samsung specifically, since Knox is their implementation of the secure kernel done by NSA.

Samsung nears deal for FBI and Navy purchases - WSJ

Knox allows for both a personal and a business partition, each totally isolated from the other.

Not only that but Samsung will allow governments access to the source code which is a very big deal to certain departments. I really think we will see a lot more large purchases by the military and large corporations.
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post #298 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

What a hassle.  I would just simply buy my employees the phone of choice and tell them that this is for company business only and to buy their own phone for personal use and keep the data separate.  Then the user doesn't have constantly type in passwords.

I've never worked for a company that supplied phones to their employees, but if they did, I would keep the phones separate. One for business, one for personal and leave it at that.  Combing the two makes administration more difficult.  Same thing goes with computers.  That's why I tried to keep my personal stuff on my own computer and business related stuff on the corporate supplied computer.  makes things much easier.  Especially since I don't want some one at the company snooping through my personal emails, photos, etc.  Plus people don't work at a company forever, so it's a nightmare having to deal with migrating personal stuff off of a company supplied computer.

I've always worked for firms that provided phones to their employees. Why is it a hassle, once your password is typed in, there aren't any more security obstacles. It's not like you have two OS's in one phone to contend with, everything is done in the background and will not hinder the users experience. Though a lot of companies and government departments have 10 minute sessions or sometimes even less so you'll need to enter your password again but you would have to do the same thing if you have an additional phone.

Administration of phones is a fairly easy ordeal, why do you make it sound like it's a huge project. When a employee leaves our firm for example the IT department doesn't even boot the system up, they simply transfer a custom image to the computer or phone, erasing all data and bringing the devices back to it's original state, settings, apps, ect. I know you despise anything none Apple but that is one benefit of using Android phones in a large firm. The IT department will set up one phone with apps and settings, then backup the ROM to be used as a master, then it's flashed to the rest of the phones. As for the user getting their data out before turning in their work computer, plugging in a hard drive and copy over the user directory isn't such a big deal either. Same thing goes when your firm gives you an Android phone, plug it into any computer, it will be mounted as normal drive and then simply copy over what you need. Depending on how much data you have it normally takes a few minutes to do.

I personally backup everything over the Cloud anyway so they could take back my notebook and it wouldn't phase me.
Edited by Relic - 7/19/13 at 5:41am
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post #299 of 310

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

What a hassle.  I would just simply buy my employees the phone of choice and tell them that this is for company business only and to buy their own phone for personal use and keep the data separate.  Then the user doesn't have constantly type in passwords.

 

Real life is not like that.  People don't like carrying two phones.  Reality is that corporations either buy a specific device and lock it down, or they allow BYOD and worry.   Either way, someone is unhappy.

 

Quote:
I've never worked for a company that supplied phones to their employees, but if they did, I would keep the phones separate. One for business, one for personal and leave it at that.  Combing the two makes administration more difficult.

 

The whole point of Knox is that administration becomes easier, because the Organization only has to worry about their side of the phone.  They decide the apps, access privileges, etc for that.

 

On the Personal side, the user can download all the crap they want... heck, even a virus... without it affecting or being able to access the Organization side.

 

Quote:
Especially since I don't want some one at the company snooping through my personal emails, photos, etc.

 

That's the beauty of it.  The corporation can't reach the personal side, any more than the personal side can reach the business side.

 

It's a win-win for the employee and the organization.   Both the employee's and organization's privacy are guaranteed.  Such systems are very attractive for smartphones in enterprise and high security environments.  

 

It's why NSA came up with the security kernel for this.  They even reportedly tried to get Apple to adopt it, but no luck (so far).


Edited by KDarling - 7/19/13 at 4:37am
post #300 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


I've always worked for firms that provided phones to their employees. Why is it a hassle, once your password is typed in there aren't any more security obstacles. It's not like you have two OS's in one phone to contend with, everything is done in the background and will not hinder the users experience. Though a lot of companies and government departments have 10 minute sessions or sometimes even less so you'll need to enter your password again but you would have to do the same thing if you have an additional phone.

Administration of phones is a fairly easy ordeal, why do you make it sound like it's a huge project. When a employee leaves our firm for example the IT department doesn't even boot the system up, they simply transfer a custom image to the computer or phone, erasing all data and bringing the devices back to it's original state, settings, apps, ect. I know you despise anything none Apple but that is one benefit of using Android phones in a large firm, the IT department will setup one phone with apps and settings, then backup the ROM to be used as a master, then it's flashed to the rest of the phones. As for the user getting his data before returning their work computer, plugging in a hard drive and copy over the user directory isn't such a big deal either. Same thing goes when your firm gives you a Android phone, plug it into any computer, it will be mounted as normal drive and then simply copy over what you need. Depending on how much data you have it normally takes a few minutes to do.

I personally backup everything over the Cloud anyway so they could take back my notebook and it wouldn't phase me.

I'm talking about having a phone with both personal and business related information on the same device.  If I got a phone from my employer, I would give that number out to whom? My friends and family?  NO. That's just for business contacts.

 

My personal phone would be for friends and family and personal business that has nothing to do with work, unless I own my own company.

 

Should I use my company's phone that THEY paid for to make personal phone calls?  NO.  Just like I wouldn't use my personal phone to make business calls.  

 

That's what's kind of dumb putting personal information on a phone that was supplied by my employer.  They don't need access to that do they?  NO.

 

If your employer bought a phone for you to use, would you own a personal phone?  If not, why? If so, why?

post #301 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Real life is not like that.  People don't like carrying two phones.  Reality is that corporations either buy a specific device and lock it down, or they allow BYOD and worry.   Either way, someone is unhappy.

 

 

The whole point of Knox is that administration becomes easier, because the Organization only has to worry about their side of the phone.  They decide the apps, access privileges, etc for that.

 

On the Personal side, the user can download all the crap they want... heck, even a virus... without it affecting or being able to access the Organization side.

 

 

That's the beauty of it.  The corporation can't reach the personal side, any more than the personal side can reach the business side.

 

It's a win-win for the employee and the organization.   Both the employee's and organization's privacy are guaranteed.  Such systems are very attractive for smartphones in enterprise and high security environments.  

 

It's why NSA came up with the security kernel for this.  They even reportedly tried to get Apple to adopt it, but no luck (so far).

But i wouldn't want my personal information on a phone that was owned by the company.  It's their phone, their phone number and I'm only using it for business reasons, so why would i put personal information on a phone that's owned by someone else in the first place?

Please explain that one. 

post #302 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If your employer bought a phone for you to use, would you own a personal phone?  If not, why? If so, why?

Well I also have a personal phone but I have it really just to goof around on and for emergencies, it's a Nokia 808 and soon to be Nokia 1020:D. My company pays for my cell bill and I have an unlimited internet plan, so I'm using it, alot. I don't understand why you would think they would have access to your info. Emails coming through via the firms Exchange server sure but the rest of my emails are from Google, Hotmail, Yahoo, ect. they don't have my password to view those. When you return the phone just simply do a wipe, there is no hidden agenda to read your emails oh go threw the pictures on your phone, well at least there isn't where I work.
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post #303 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Well I also have a personal phone but I have it really just to goof around on and for emergencies, it's a Nokia 808 and soon to be Nokia 1020:D. My company pays for my cell bill and I have an unlimited internet plan, so I'm using it, alot. I don't understand why you would think they would have access to your info. Emails coming through via the firms Exchange server sure but the rest of my emails are from Google, Hotmail, Yahoo, ect. they don't have my password to view those. When you return the phone just simply do a wipe, there is no hidden agenda to read your emails oh go threw the pictures on your phone, well at least there isn't where I work.

Well goodie goodie for you. I just would use my personal phone for my personal needs and a company supplied phone for company related information and that's it. No further discussion.  I wouldn't try to take advantage of using a company supplied device for personal use.  That I do with my own money on sometime I buy.

 

What you think that just wiping your phone it is going to eliminate any possibility from someone to recover data from a wiped phone?  Unless I'm the owner of the company and I know the people I hire aren't going to try to dig into personal information.

 

I worked for one company that I wouldn't put it past them to try to get access to personal information.  The CEO and other members of upper management had done things that were unethical and possibly illegal, which is why I don't work there any more.   So what? You think that your employer wouldn't try to go through a device you turned in digging for personal stuff you had once put on your device they gave you?   Some companies aren't trustworthy in that respects, just like not all employees are 100% trustworthy too.

post #304 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

But i wouldn't want my personal information on a phone that was owned by the company.  It's their phone, their phone number and I'm only using it for business reasons, so why would i put personal information on a phone that's owned by someone else in the first place?

 

Since I work for a corporation that has given its employees tens of thousands of smartphones, I know lots of people who do just that to save money.   But yes, obviously they'd be happier if they had a personal partition where they had more control.

 

Moreover, look at it the opposite way.  What if the phone is owned by you?   BYOD is a big deal these days, but corporations are justifiably wary, and often require the user to download and use corporate VPN and related security tools, that incidentally might give them access to your personal information.

 

To heck with that!  With something like Knox, you can bring your own device and yet only download their tools and access to the enterprise side, while the personal side stays yours alone.

post #305 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Well I also have a personal phone but I have it really just to goof around on and for emergencies, it's a Nokia 808 and soon to be Nokia 1020:D. My company pays for my cell bill and I have an unlimited internet plan, so I'm using it, alot. I don't understand why you would think they would have access to your info. Emails coming through via the firms Exchange server sure but the rest of my emails are from Google, Hotmail, Yahoo, ect. they don't have my password to view those. When you return the phone just simply do a wipe, there is no hidden agenda to read your emails oh go threw the pictures on your phone, well at least there isn't where I work.

You seem to buy a lot of smartphones.  how many have you owned in the last few years?  So why are you switching from an 808 to a 1020?  Don't like Symbian anymore?  I thought you were an Android user?  Can't make up your mind can you?

post #306 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

You seem to buy a lot of smartphones.  how many have you owned in the last few years?  So why are you switching from an 808 to a 1020?  Don't like Symbian anymore?  I thought you were an Android user?  Can't make up your mind can you?

No, I only used Android at work, I had a Samsung Note, they switched us this year to the BlackBerry Z10 and Q10, so no more Android phones for us. I love my Nokia 808 but Symbian has had it's last breath, plus the screen resolution really isn't the best so I'm giving it to my daughter and updating to the 1020. Yes it's Windows 8 but should at least offer a little more in the way of speed, apps and other creature comforts. I pre-ordered it the day it was released and should have it by August 1st. I have also pre-ordered a Jolla Phone but that will be strictly for programming, a hobby phone basically.

I also still have every Nokia Communicator that I ever bought, even a couple of new ones still in the box like a 9300 and 9500. Nokia N8, brand new Nokia N9, N900, all together I have about 36 Nokia and a few Ericsson's phones. I collect them as you have already guessed. I get them cheap from overstock warehouses and eBay. I only buy them new in their boxes. I even have a couple of gold plated ones like the Oro.1biggrin.gif

Tacky but pretty.........


Look at the cute box it came in...


This phone cost about 1200 when it was new, I got it for 80 and it was still sealed in the box
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post #307 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

What you think that just wiping your phone it is going to eliminate any possibility from someone to recover data from a wiped phone?  Unless I'm the owner of the company and I know the people I hire aren't going to try to dig into personal information.

 

Actually, I would think the drones in the IT department would be more likely to look at the owner's personal info than anybody else's. (Well, perhaps the hot chick in sales...)

post #308 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


No, I only used Android at work, I had a Samsung Note, they switched us this year to the BlackBerry Z10 and Q10, so no more Android phones for us. I love my Nokia 808 but Symbian has had it's last breath, plus the screen resolution really isn't the best so I'm giving it to my daughter and updating to the 1020. Yes it's Windows 8 but should at least offer a little more in the way of speed, apps and other creature comforts. I pre-ordered it the day it was released and should have it by August 1st. I have also pre-ordered a Jolla Phone but that will be strictly for programming, a hobby phone basically.

I also still have every Nokia Communicator that I ever bought, even a couple of new ones still in the box like a 9300 and 9500. Nokia N8, brand new Nokia N9, N900, all together I have about 36 Nokia and a few Ericsson's phones. I collect them as you have already guessed. I get them cheap from overstock warehouses and eBay. I only buy them new in their boxes. I even have a couple of gold plated ones like the Oro.1biggrin.gif

Tacky but pretty.........


Look at the cute box it came in...


This phone cost about 1200 when it was new, I got it for 80 and it was still sealed in the box

FYi. I've only bought one smartphone in my life, and have had only 3 cell phones in my life before that.  I had a StarTac phone I bought in 2000 because it was installed in my car and it was the only thing at the time that actually worked well for hands free. I had that phone and a replacement after I dropped once too many times for over 10 years.   I had a Nokia before that, and I can't remember the one before that.  I PURPOSELY only give my cell phone number out to only a VERY small, select number of people.  I also PURPOSELY try not to let it rule my life.  I use it as sparingly as possible, PURPOSELY.  I use it more for emergencies than people that want to clog up the cell towers with useless conversations, tweets, facebook nonsense, and trying to look self important.  I could care less about a lot of these whiz bang features because most of them are pretty much useless in the long term.  Camera?  even my iPhone 4 takes good enough photos for my purposes. If I want to take photography more seriously, I'll get a Nikon, Hasselblad or some other expensive camera with REAL lenses, etc.

 

 

You obviously, have a phone fetish. To me, that's an expensive hobby or a waste of time. I know a few people like you that seem to think that you're cool because you have this little collection of phones.  I know someone that would investigate every new phone on the market, every carrier and all of their options and he became so obsessed with things, it became difficult to talk to him like a normal human being.  He carried around at least 3 phones at all times, and they were the latest and greatest at the time.  You might want to try to go a month without a phone and see if you can notice something about your behavior.   I'm not the type of hoard phones, regardless of the price and think I'm hot stuff.  I prefer NOT knowing everything about things that aren't work related or hobby related.  Smartphones a hobby?  I think it's a fine line between an hobby and an obsession. I think your's is the later, unfortunately.  At least that's MY perspective.  Are you married?  What does your husband think of your obsession?  If my wife collected smartphones, i cut her off and tell her to get involved with some other hobby like learning to paint, learning to play a musical instrument, collecting art or something that the both of us could share that's REAL and helps with the relationship and individual growth. Does that make sense to you?

post #309 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


No, I only used Android at work, I had a Samsung Note, they switched us this year to the BlackBerry Z10 and Q10, so no more Android phones for us. I love my Nokia 808 but Symbian has had it's last breath, plus the screen resolution really isn't the best so I'm giving it to my daughter and updating to the 1020. Yes it's Windows 8 but should at least offer a little more in the way of speed, apps and other creature comforts. I pre-ordered it the day it was released and should have it by August 1st. I have also pre-ordered a Jolla Phone but that will be strictly for programming, a hobby phone basically.

I also still have every Nokia Communicator that I ever bought, even a couple of new ones still in the box like a 9300 and 9500. Nokia N8, brand new Nokia N9, N900, all together I have about 36 Nokia and a few Ericsson's phones. I collect them as you have already guessed. I get them cheap from overstock warehouses and eBay. I only buy them new in their boxes. I even have a couple of gold plated ones like the Oro.1biggrin.gif

Tacky but pretty.........


Look at the cute box it came in...


This phone cost about 1200 when it was new, I got it for 80 and it was still sealed in the box

Why don't you look for one of those Vertu phones to add to your collection.  Maybe you can find some obscenely rich person selling their gold and Swarovski encrusted outdated models for $50.  Talk about a STUPID product. 

post #310 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

 

Actually, I would think the drones in the IT department would be more likely to look at the owner's personal info than anybody else's. (Well, perhaps the hot chick in sales...)

Yeah, some of the IT people are a little strange. They have to get their jollies one way or another.

 

Actually Apple's MDM is probably good enough for most scenarios, but I'm sure Apple will always enhance it as time goes on.

 

http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/it-center/deployment-mdm.html

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