or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Touting Windows 8, Microsoft pokes Apple's iPad again over multitasking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Touting Windows 8, Microsoft pokes Apple's iPad again over multitasking - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

It's never a matter of what these devices can do, but rather how well they do it.

 

And as a Windows 8 user, the dual window touch interface is not all that good, while the task switching gesture of the iPad is quicker and more intuitive.

You can do the same thing in Windows 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erU59qEkUqc

 


Edited by Relic - 7/10/13 at 12:08am
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

All I know is that I was in a retail store the other day and tried out the Surface and while there might be a way to multitask, whatever it is is not intuitive and I kept having to hit the home button (which was not very responsive) to move to another app.   Also, the damned thing was so incredibly slow, I was ready to punch the screen.      There are certain aspects of the interface that I think are compelling - that horizontal orientation does work for certain kinds of apps, but overall, I only would have considered buying one if it had been $150 or less and even then, only to give to my 87-year-old mother to replace a barely-working old Dell that she has.

 

All of these ads, including Apple's, frequently show video calls, but in real life, how many people really make video calls and when they do so, have to access another app aside from possibly having to look up a contact or a map location?    Don't you have to be on the same platform for video calling to work?     

Skype is on the list of top 50 apps downloaded in the Apple store so I don't think that is going to be a problem. I never just have the video conferencing app opened, I'm always surfing or looking at a document. It is very cool that you can set the video chat box in the corner while your surfing, multi-window is a feature that I have wanted for a long time on a iPad, as well as multi-user support.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

It's never a matter of what these devices can do, but rather how well they do it.

 

And as a Windows 8 user, the dual window touch interface is not all that good, while the task switching gesture of the iPad is quicker and more intuitive.

Windows 8 has the same task switching method, except with one finger instead of 4, the dual windows and now multi-windows with version 8.1 is just an added bonus

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #44 of 72

Strange. Windows tablets had 'multitasking' (and sd slots) for years before the iPad arrived. Nobody bought them. Then the iPad came without 'multitasking' (and sd slots) and they sold more in a few months that all the Windows tablets in the years before it. Now, suddenly, people should  buy Windows tablets because multitasking (and sd slots)?

post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugminaion View Post

Strange. Windows tablets had 'multitasking' (and sd slots) for years before the iPad arrived. Nobody bought them. Then the iPad came without 'multitasking' (and sd slots) and they sold more in a few months that all the Windows tablets in the years before it. Now, suddenly, people should  buy Windows tablets because multitasking (and sd slots)?

I wondered the same thing.

Apple has sold over 100 million iPads that don't have "proper multitasking"

Are we to believe there are tons of people who are saying "OMG it's finally here! The tablet I can run two apps side-by-side!!!!"

Or... you can ask it in another way:

Was the iPad a failure this whole time because it couldn't run two apps side-by-side?

Because I certainly didn't notice that...
post #46 of 72
I wonder how long it will take for Microsoft to understand that not all people want their tablet computers to be like a Windows desktop computer or want to enrol in an expensive computer training program to learn how to use their tablet computers. There are far, far more people (aka customers) who will buy a device that is easy to use and has stacks of useful apps, rather than nerds who want to take a portable desktop computer to a baseball game.
post #47 of 72

A good ad, but is the product really better?

post #48 of 72
rcoleman1 2013/07/09 07:01pm
Has anyone noticed that Apple sells its devices like wildfires with no comparison to Windows devices? Enough said.

I'm not sure that you realise what a ridiculously, hilariously, ill-informed comment this is.

Try googling what is one of the longest-running, most successful Apple advertising campaigns of all time. It's called "Get a Mac", and there were literally more than 100 different executions made in numerous countries.

Why has the general level of intelligence on this site declined so precipitously in recent times?

It appears to correspond to the arrival of that Tallest Skil idiot.
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontuwish View Post

Since when does a Surface come with 4G/LTE? Oh, all bush league fields have free WI-FI, I forgot....... :)

Any high tech guru smart enough to buy a Surface would tether it to his android phone.  You know, because he can use it the way HE wants. 

 

Or something.

post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

It appears to correspond to the arrival of that Tallest Skil idiot.

 

Please re-frame from calling people derogatory names, it is both demeaning and childish, this isn't your schools play yard.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugminaion View Post

Strange. Windows tablets had 'multitasking' (and sd slots) for years before the iPad arrived. Nobody bought them. Then the iPad came without 'multitasking' (and sd slots) and they sold more in a few months that all the Windows tablets in the years before it. Now, suddenly, people should  buy Windows tablets because multitasking (and sd slots)?

 

No, this is just an alternative don't be so melodramatic. Some of us thinks it's pretty convenient to run full desktop apps on a tablet that gives us a 8 - 10 hour battery, it just runs Windows 8, no big deal. Apple is still the market leader. The iPad also still limits running apps in the background to a very few apps. So iOS isn't really full multitasking, switching between apps pauses almost every app that isn't in the foreground.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugminaion View Post

Strange. Windows tablets had 'multitasking' (and sd slots) for years before the iPad arrived. Nobody bought them. Then the iPad came without 'multitasking' (and sd slots) and they sold more in a few months that all the Windows tablets in the years before it. Now, suddenly, people should  buy Windows tablets because multitasking (and sd slots)?

People didn't buy them because they were physically unattractive and used a clumsy mouse and keyboard interface on a touchscreen, not because they could multitask. Microsoft's message is that Windows 8 tablets combine a slick multitouch interface with desktop-class functionality.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/10/13 at 7:30am
post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil View Post

Farva?
Tablet Nim Rod? A liter of tablet? I call Shenanigans.
Actually, I thought it might be Kevin Heffernan too, but after watching it again. I'm not sure.


Edited by bigdaddyp - 7/10/13 at 7:17am
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
Reply
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
Reply
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

People didn't buy them because they were physically unattractive and used a clumsy mouse and keyboard interface on a touchscreen, not because they could multitask.

 

And they never made any such claim. The point was that such a feature was not compelling enough for anyone to buy them or for people to not buy an iPad.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Microsoft's message is that Windows 8 tablets combine a slick multitouch interface with desktop-class functionality.

 

 

And the poor sales show that next to no one cares. As in, you know, it's not a compelling feature for the average consumer otherwise Microsoft would have an issue with keeping up with demand not with having to dump their supply. Which, surprise surprise, was the person's entire point.


Edited by MikeJones - 7/10/13 at 8:08am
post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post


Tablet Nim Rod? A liter of tablet? I call Shenanigans.
Actually, I thought it might be Kevin Heffernan too, but after watching it again. I'm not sure.

Oh one of the Broken Lizard guys.

 

Captain O'Hagan: There was a time when we'd take a guy like you in the back and beat you with a hose. Now you've got your God-damned unions.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

 

And they never made any such claim. The point was that such a feature was not compelling enough for anyone to buy them or for people to not buy an iPad.

 

 

 

And the poor sales show that next to no one cares. As in, you know, it's not a compelling feature for the average consumer otherwise Microsoft would have an issue with keeping up with demand not with having to dump their supply. Which, surprise surprise, was the person's entire point.

I misread the post I quoted as implying that desktop features actually detract from the value of a tablet; a previous post had made such a suggestion. Perhaps I should amend my previous statement. Windows tablets did not previously sell well regardless of whether they could multitask because they had glaring user interface flaws and weren't much thinner and lighter than laptops. iPads caught on initially because they were physically attractive and offered a compelling touch interface. Consumers didn't care that the iPad couldn't do things they could do on their macbooks could because it was so comfortable to operate. They quickly found uses that suited the iPad's form factor and touch interface while avoiding its limitations. 

 

As for right now, I think the average consumer views the tablet mainly as a light appliance for consuming media or casual gaming because those have been the main use cases for iPads, and to many people the word "tablet" is still synonymous with the iPad. I agree that windows 8 offers no compelling advantages for that audience. But those people probably also buy laptops when they want to work with two programs at the same time, and most of them probably aren't running computationally intensive tasks like Matlab that are beyond the capability of today's tablets. Microsoft is trying to break the pigeonholing of tablets for "casual" computing and laptops for "general-purpose" computing, and convince people that windows 8 tablets make the distinction rather artificial.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/10/13 at 9:53am
post #57 of 72

A good advert mentions what your product can do.

A bad advert points out what competing products can't do or how they are doing something wrong.

 

You get the same during elections.

 

A really bad advert mentions nothing about the product but just has a load of people dancing.

post #58 of 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I misread the post I quoted as implying that desktop features actually detract from the value of a tablet; a previous post had made such a suggestion. Perhaps I should amend my previous statement. Windows tablets did not previously sell well regardless of whether they could multitask because they had glaring user interface flaws and weren't much thinner and lighter than laptops. iPads caught on initially because they were physically attractive and offered a compelling touch interface. Consumers didn't care that the iPad couldn't do things they could do on their macbooks could because it was so comfortable to operate. They quickly found uses that suited the iPad's form factor and touch interface while avoiding its limitations. 

 

And by-and-large consumers still don't care that the iPad can't do things the Surface RT or Pro can. If such features were compelling neither of those tablets would still be seeing abysmal sales numbers. Especially since the SurfaceRT has been out for going on 9 months now.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

But those people probably also buy laptops when they want to work with two programs at the same time, and most of them probably aren't running computationally intensive tasks like Matlab that are beyond the capability of today's tablets.

 

Most users probably never focus on anything but a single window at once whether it be their browser, some word processor, fullscreen game, etc. on their laptops/desktops. At least that's been my experience working with all sorts of computer users across various tech knowledge levels and age for more than a decade. It's usually only people such as power users, developers, etc. that tend to have tons of windows open at the same time that they are focusing on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Microsoft is trying to break the pigeonholing of tablets for "casual" computing and laptops for "general-purpose" computing, and convince people that windows 8 tablets make the distinction rather artificial.

 

And doing a poor job since especially when many people do more than "casual" computing on both iPads and Android tablets. Outside of people dancing like goofballs and doing the clickity-clacking with the detachable keyboards I've yet to see much "general-purpose computing" being done in Microsoft's commercials. Not to mention that "general-purpose computing" does not necessarily entail multiple windows or multitasking. You are false conflating the concepts as if they are tightly related which they aren't. OSes like CP/M, MS-DOS, etc. offered plenty of "general-purpose computing" without having either multiple windows or multitasking.

post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Microsoft is Microsoft and will never understand what consumers want or need. This continual insistence that every portable device has every feature and connection as desktops is what has earned them the marketshare they have. 
They seem to understand this one though.

My iPads infuriated me countless times when ive been imessaging or typing an email to someone and need to keep switching back to safari to look stuff up. The 4 finger swiping or double clicking the home button are some of the worst design ever! In an ad it looks great, in reality you end up with multiple apps between the two you want to switch between so your actually doing the gesture 4 times to get between the two, by which time you've forgotten what you just looked at. Then you try the home button method which then changes the order all the apps are open in, not to mention plays a stupid animation every time. Seriously when you've watched that thing 20 times in less than a minute it gets old. If you need to switch between 3 apps things get even worse as the order changes even more and you have no idea if you should swipe left or right.

Every user may not use it every day, and you may never want to use it for a video call, but i reckon most users at some point will want to look at two apps at the same time. Or maybe not even 2 apps, win 8.1 is extending it so 1 app can use multiple window panes, e.g. 2 emails, 2 web pages etc.
post #60 of 72
First, @dontuwish, it's a Dell tablet, not the surface. Dell makes an LTE version. See? Options!

The second thing I'd like to point out is that the video is about maintaining the video call while multitasking. It's not just about the ability to switch tasks. That's not to say Windows 8 is free of weird multitasking issues like that, but they are less than with iOS. I've found snap view to be very useful at times, and it will be even more useful in 8.1, I think. Again, this isn't to say that iOS can't switch easily between apps, but snap view is useful. Let's not pretend it isn't just because iOS doesn't do it.

Finally, let's all just admit that everyone "attacks" everyone else. Sometimes it's mean and doesn't work (Scroogled), and other times it can be effective. Example: "I'm a PC!" "I'm a Mac!" That worked really well, and it brought out specific points that were wrong with Windows. Another example? The Samsung Galaxy ads. That's what Microsoft is trying to do here. Point out their features (snap view) in opposition to the competition in a relatively lighthearted way. Everyone does it. If you never talk about the competition (especially if you aren't on top), the press starts calling you oblivious and weak.

Oh, and kudos to AI for a fair Windows article!
post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

 

And doing a poor job since especially when many people do more than "casual" computing on both iPads and Android tablets. Outside of people dancing like goofballs and doing the clickity-clacking with the detachable keyboards I've yet to see much "general-purpose computing" being done in Microsoft's commercials. Not to mention that "general-purpose computing" does not necessarily entail multiple windows or multitasking. You are false conflating the concepts as if they are tightly related which they aren't. OSes like CP/M, MS-DOS, etc. offered plenty of "general-purpose computing" without having either multiple windows or multitasking.

 

I guess "casual" and "general-purpose" computing were ill defined in my post, but I was getting at the distinction between tablets and laptops expressed in forum posts such as this one. The suggestion there is that the iPad defines what a tablet should be used for, and that tasks that would be awkward to perform on the iPad are properly reserved for laptops and desktops. The undercurrent of MS's Win8 ads has been "why shouldn't you be able to do that on a tablet?" As has been mentioned before in this forum, MS regards the tablet as essentially a highly portable, touch-optimized PC.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/10/13 at 4:09pm
post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

 

Most users probably never focus on anything but a single window at once whether it be their browser, some word processor, fullscreen game, etc. on their laptops/desktops. At least that's been my experience working with all sorts of computer users across various tech knowledge levels and age for more than a decade. It's usually only people such as power users, developers, etc. that tend to have tons of windows open at the same time that they are focusing on.

 

Hmm. So do you suppose that multi-window operating systems like OS X will soon become a niche product for power users and developers, and that most users will find a single-window OS such as iOS adequate for their computing needs?


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/10/13 at 2:21pm
post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Hmm. So do you suppose that multi-window operating systems like OS X will soon become a niche product for power users and developers, and that most users will find a single-window OS such as iOS adequate for their computing needs?

No!

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

Microsoft make fun of Apple, who ironically are the ones laughing all the way to the bank.

go figger.

History repeats. Back in the days, MS had money and Apple had poke-in-the-eye adds.
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton View Post

I wonder how long it will take for Microsoft to understand that not all people want their tablet computers to be like a Windows desktop computer or want to enrol in an expensive computer training program to learn how to use their tablet computers. There are far, far more people (aka customers) who will buy a device that is easy to use and has stacks of useful apps, rather than nerds who want to take a portable desktop computer to a baseball game.

Windows 8 tablet in Modern GUI is quite easy to use, IMHO. For customers with simple needs, "Desktop" tile can be removed from Start screen and users don't even need to know they can jump to classic desktop.
post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I guess "casual" and "general-purpose" computing were ill defined in my post, but I was getting at the distinction between tablets and laptops expressed in forum posts such as this one. The suggestion there is that the iPad defines what a tablet should be used for, and that tasks that would be awkward to perform on the iPad are properly reserved for laptops and desktops. The undercurrent of MS's Win8 ads has been "why shouldn't you be able to do that on a tablet?" As has been mentioned before in this forum, MS regards the tablet as essentially a highly portable, touch-optimized PC.

There is no harm in trying to push the envelope. It is happening all the time. Just consider where smart phones are now, compared to what is phone supposed to do by definition. Have people stuck with definition of phone - as it was for more than 100 years - we would still all be using feature cellphones at best.

iPad concept was perfect at the time of introduction - as in device small and portable enough to be easily used hand-held, and optimised for touch interface. Personally, I would not sacrifice those values for having more powerful device, but if I can have more powerful and capable device without sacrificing defining values? Why, thank you.
post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

And doing a poor job since especially when many people do more than "casual" computing on both iPads and Android tablets. Outside of people dancing like goofballs and doing the clickity-clacking with the detachable keyboards I've yet to see much "general-purpose computing" being done in Microsoft's commercials. Not to mention that "general-purpose computing" does not necessarily entail multiple windows or multitasking. You are false conflating the concepts as if they are tightly related which they aren't. OSes like CP/M, MS-DOS, etc. offered plenty of "general-purpose computing" without having either multiple windows or multitasking.

Well, these are commercials, not in-depth reviews. They are simply implying that W8 tablet can do more than iPad, hoping to get as many customers as possible interested to find out more.

I'm not sure where are you going with CP/M and MS-DOS parallel here. They were what they were at the time - best or most convenient option available, probably both. So was typewriter perfectly fine for journalists, writers, academics. And feature cellphones served well in their time. But guess what? They were all replaced with more versatile solutions, once such solutions were available.
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I wondered the same thing.

Apple has sold over 100 million iPads that don't have "proper multitasking"

Are we to believe there are tons of people who are saying "OMG it's finally here! The tablet I can run two apps side-by-side!!!!"

Or... you can ask it in another way:

Was the iPad a failure this whole time because it couldn't run two apps side-by-side?

Because I certainly didn't notice that...

But then, DOS was not a failure for not having GUI at all. Until GUI systems started emerging and reducing DOS usage until it became completely obsolete.

I'm not saying iPad will go dinosaur, but I do expect that, at some time in future, iOSX or XY will have more desktop-like multitasking. What was hard to achieve with early iPad hardware performance, will simply be no excuse for future hardware - probably current hardware already. Like desktop OS evolved from command line, no GUI, no multitasking keyboard-muncher to what modern OS is now, tablet OS will also evolve from single app, no multitasking, full screen environment. We will see different implementations, but features will be there.
post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I'm not sure where are you going with CP/M and MS-DOS parallel here. They were what they were at the time - best or most convenient option available, probably both. So was typewriter perfectly fine for journalists, writers, academics. And feature cellphones served well in their time. But guess what? They were all replaced with more versatile solutions, once such solutions were available.

The point is that one can have "general purpose computing" without multiple windows or multitasking. The person was falsely conflating the two concepts.

post #70 of 72

This Microsoft ad knocking Apple's iOS iDevices,

 illustrates again that MS just doesn't understand what users do with  iDevices.

 

Too bad MS, but you'll survive by creating Office updates for business,

  who now are wondering if they need all your updates anyway.

post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Doesn't iOS 7 let you swipe between apps? I think I'd prefer that to scrunching everything on a screen.
There has been 4 finger swipe sinse IOS 5 (or earlier) so yes IOS 7 does have swipe apps.
post #72 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


They seem to understand this one though.

My iPads infuriated me countless times when ive been imessaging or typing an email to someone and need to keep switching back to safari to look stuff up. The 4 finger swiping or double clicking the home button are some of the worst design ever! In an ad it looks great, in reality you end up with multiple apps between the two you want to switch between so your actually doing the gesture 4 times to get between the two, by which time you've forgotten what you just looked at. Then you try the home button method which then changes the order all the apps are open in, not to mention plays a stupid animation every time. Seriously when you've watched that thing 20 times in less than a minute it gets old. If you need to switch between 3 apps things get even worse as the order changes even more and you have no idea if you should swipe left or right.

Every user may not use it every day, and you may never want to use it for a video call, but i reckon most users at some point will want to look at two apps at the same time. Or maybe not even 2 apps, win 8.1 is extending it so 1 app can use multiple window panes, e.g. 2 emails, 2 web pages etc.

 

 

I agree, and think I posted somewhere here that having side by side docs would be useful (and I think there are apps that make this happen). But this I don't see as an everyday use for the iPad, which doesn't mean it should be excluded, and that Microsoft continually pushes every desktop feature to every device when that feature would be used so seldom. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
  • Touting Windows 8, Microsoft pokes Apple's iPad again over multitasking
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Touting Windows 8, Microsoft pokes Apple's iPad again over multitasking