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post #41 of 76
"One Microsoft" is sort of a cool tagline. It's got some inspiration, calling all people and teams to integrate... "One Microsoft All the Time" is ridiculous. They took something sort of inspired and destroyed it by overreaching and needlessly complicating...

But then that's what they do, isn't it?
post #42 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

So what is your point? One company is to be held to a standard of perfection while another gets it mistakes excused? That seems to fit perfectly with my claim of partisan bias.

My point is that you're apologizing for Microsoft. You aren't bias-free. Don't come here labeling people with "partisan bias" without labeling yourself in the same way. These forums are frequented by people who hate Apple, but claim all the bias and apologists are on Apple's side, while they claim to be full of "logic and reason." Just admit you're here being partisan too. It's OK to have biases. These forums run on it.

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post #43 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

"Lots of change. But in all of this, many key things remains the same. Our incredible people, our spirit, our commitment, our belief in the transformative power of technologyour Microsoft technologyto make the world a better place for billions of people and millions of businesses around the world."

I fail to see how Microsoft has made the world a better place. Their technology leads people to spend entire weekends--even entire vacations--ridding their computers of virus infections, system corruption, and getting drivers to work.

 

I haven't had to run a virus check or disk defrag in 6 years. Thank you, Apple!

post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

"One Microsoft" is sort of a cool tagline. It's got some inspiration, calling all people and teams to integrate... "One Microsoft All the Time" is ridiculous. They took something sort of inspired and destroyed it by overreaching and needlessly complicating...

 

 

 

...  and furthermore, this is no true multitasking, uh ?

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post #45 of 76

One [expletive deleted] Microsoft

post #46 of 76
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The motto of "One Microsoft all the time" will also ask employees to be nimble, communicative, collaborative, decisive and motivated in their work. Ballmer highlighted these specific keys as how he wants to express the core values of Microsoft's corporate culture.

 

Core values?  Microsoft's core values are:

 

1. Keep selling Windows licenses for legacy PCs

2. Keep selling Office licenses for legacy PCs

3. Keep selling legacy PC enterprise solutions to corporate IT groups

 

That's it.  All that consumer-oriented stuff (Metro, KIN, Zune, Bob, Xbox) is just

there to fool investors into holding MSFT.  To make it look like MS is a software

company.  It's not.  It's a Windows + Office + enterprise solution company, and

they're going to milk corporate IT for as long as they can.  All else is just a distraction.

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post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


Well, you do remember that Microsoft software engineer that spilled the beans on how bad things were inside, don't you?

I don't recall that, but I'm almost certain that if the guys responsible for the Xbox idea hadn't went over everyone's head and right to Bill Gates it would've never been built.
post #48 of 76
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

I'm merely describing what I'm reading. I've seen very little in the way of any reasoned arguments about what MS is doing here and very much in the way of simply knee-jerk mud-slinging...because it MS.

 

...

 

I'm sure it is. However, I don't hate Apple (I love them), and I haven't claimed that all of the bias is on the Apple side.

 

...

 

Welcome to AppleInsider!  You are posting on one of the world's premiere pro-Apple web sites.

Whether or not your "bias is on the Apple side," you are contributing to the success of AppleInsider,

and for that we thank you.

 

Now, maybe after a year or so, you will be able to troll AppleInsider in a more subtle, more effective manner.

We look forward to that day.  We see  many newbie trolls.  They're easy to spot.  Good luck!

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post #49 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

I fail to see how Microsoft has made the world a better place. Their technology leads people to spend entire weekends--even entire vacations--ridding their computers of virus infections, system corruption, and getting drivers to work.

I haven't had to run a virus check or disk defrag in 6 years. Thank you, Apple!

That actually hasn't been the case in years. Though Vista was a disaster they've done a good job with 7.
post #50 of 76
When is Microsoft going to realize that Steve Ballmer is the issue? I think they can only rely on businesses for so ling and when this starts to go in a different direction they'll be screwed.

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post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I'm at a loss to understand why Ballmer still has a job.
All it takes is to know who the top two MS shareholders are.
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

 

Well, that is the purpose of a business.

 

 

 

Clearly that may not be the case. But often some people are given more slack or benefit of the doubt. Perhaps Balmer has been given too much. That might be a fair argument. But only if there is another option for Microsoft.

 

 

 

Your ad hominem's aside, that is the purpose of a busines...to make money.

 

(awaits the "See I told you so" response because, you know preemptively claiming someone is an idiot when they say something you disagree with wins all arguments.)

 

 

 

What "bullshit" is that?

 

 

 

Perhaps you can enlighten all of us fools and morons from your great wisdom what makes these "different things altogether."

 

Obviously you are a died in the wool Capitalist, but an answer to your specifics would be book length.  

 

Suffice to say that an intelligent person would realise that Capitalism is in fact an ideology whereas most people who follow it actually believe it's more like a functional, rational system.  

 

The practice of business is "different" from Capitalism because it was around for thousands of years before the ideology and the dogma were worked out.  Large parts of Capitalist ideology for example make no sense and have been proven time and again to be incorrect, (trickle-down economics anyone?) yet they are still followed "religiously," (important word) in most quarters.  

 

What I'm referring to is the growing feeling in many parts of the business world in the 21st century that Capitalism and the ideology of the free market is in fact a great part of the problem facing business and economic growth.  This isn't' a "Capitalism vs. Communism" argument, because Communism is also an ideology and a failed one at that.  What a lot of people are thinking nowadays is that we should get away from the ideology altogether and just focus on what works.  You'd be surprised how different "what works" is from standard Capitalist dogma.  

 

In short, "business" has been around since the dawn of time and the first day Ug the caveman traded a sabre-tooth tiger pelt for some beans, but the whole "capitalism" thing is a very modern invention, it's ideologically based (not rationally so), and flawed in many many ways.  

post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

To specifically narrow the scope of "the power of technology" to only their own branded products is really disgusting to me. It appears to completely disregard -- and indeed, intentionally diss -- everyone else's contributions. I've never seen arrogance as enormous as that before, even from Microsoft.

 

But this has been their corporate culture since, well, probably forever. I worked out there for a short time years ago (back when Expedia was still part of Microsoft) and I remember sitting in meetings where there was data in need of processing. This is a paraphrasing of how these conversations would typically go (this happened several times over my short tenure):

 

Manager: "We have some logs that we need to massage into something we can understand. How should we do that?"

 

Developer: "I need a team of three VB coders and three weeks and we can do that for you."

 

Me: "Let me install Perl on my machine and I can take care of this in about three days."

 

Room: Full of confused looks on their faces. I could practically hear their collective minds screaming, "Perl? That's not a Microsoft product…"

 

Guess which decision was made, every time? I never bothered installing ActivePerl on my machine and I was gone after four months. Not enough of a team player apparently. It was, frankly, a horrid environment in which to work.

post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I'm at a loss to understand why Ballmer still has a job.

Not sure why everyone is bashing Ballmer for this change.  It was a good change IMO. Ballmer may be stupid, but that doesn't mean everything he does is bad.  Who knows, maybe the corporate structure is the reason we've seen such incompetence the last 15 years.  Apple should be on guard.  I know a tiger doesn't change its stripes, but companies do turn around sometimes......

post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

 

You don't address the point I raised. You don't explain why what MS is doing is a bad business move,. Instead you you accuse me of "trolling."

 

 

I have to say that I see both sides of these arguments. Your earlier point did sound rather apologetic toward Microsoft, defending their position because they make money. You're right in saying that is, in fact, the ultimate goal of business. The other side of that is that, as a technology company, they also really need to be seen as innovative leaders 'lest they lose their place at the top as IBM did years ago and have many other companies that were in similar positions once upon a time. Anyone still remember companies like Ashton-Tate, Borland, Lotus, WordPerfect Corp? Perhaps those are not the best examples because they primarily lost their footing because of anticompetitive measures taken by Microsoft releasing products before Windows APIs were even made public, but my point is that if Microsoft continues to be seen as a follower rather than a leader, they will eventually begin to fade. It's already happening to a large extent.

 

Also I should point out that I strongly believe what MS is doing is a good business move. If they do truly integrate similar divisions rather than having them practically in competition with each other, it could be a rather positive change in the right direction for a company that's currently so big it simply doesn't function well. We'll see.

 

Balmer is still an idiot who should have been replaced years ago.

post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


In short, "business" has been around since the dawn of time and the first day Ug the caveman traded a sabre-tooth tiger pelt for some beans, but the whole "capitalism" thing is a very modern invention, it's ideologically based (not rationally so), and flawed in many many ways.  

Actually... Eve was the first business[wo]man... a carpenter... she made Adam's banana stand...
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post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Welcome to AppleInsider!  You are posting on one of the world's premiere pro-Apple web sites.

Whether or not your "bias is on the Apple side," you are contributing to the success of AppleInsider,

and for that we thank you.

 

Now, maybe after a year or so, you will be able to troll AppleInsider in a more subtle, more effective manner.

We look forward to that day.  We see  many newbie trolls.  They're easy to spot.  Good luck!

Not sure whether LibertyLover is a troll or not, but he's absolutely correct to question the mud slinging about the corporate structure.  How is this change a bad thing?  If anything they are copying Apple's structure.  Again, how is that a bad thing for MS? We all know Ballmer is a complete idiot, but that doesn't make the current changes bad.  It just means Ballmer's an idiot for not doing it 10 years ago.

post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

 

But this has been their corporate culture since, well, probably forever. I worked out there for a short time years ago (back when Expedia was still part of Microsoft) and I remember sitting in meetings where there was data in need of processing. This is a paraphrasing of how these conversations would typically go (this happened several times over my short tenure):

 

Manager: "We have some logs that we need to massage into something we can understand. How should we do that?"

 

Developer: "I need a team of three VB coders and three weeks and we can do that for you."

 

Me: "Let me install Perl on my machine and I can take care of this in about three days."

 

Room: Full of confused looks on their faces. I could practically hear their collective minds screaming, "Perl? That's not a Microsoft product…"

 

Guess which decision was made, every time? I never bothered installing ActivePerl on my machine and I was gone after four months. Not enough of a team player apparently. It was, frankly, a horrid environment in which to work.

You nailed the true issue, which is the underlying corporate culture.  The question is whether the change in corporate structure will have an impact on the culture.  If it does, MS could morph into a good company.  If not, everyone will look back and say Baller was putting lipstick on a pig. 

 

My guess is it is just lipstick on a pig.  We shall see....

post #59 of 76

"Marketing, advertising, and all customer interaction will focus on portraying Microsoft as a company that offers a tightly integrated ecosystem for both consumers and businesses."

 

 

Portraying yourself as a company that offers something, and actually delivering that type of experience are two different things. I think it's good that MS is trying to refocus, I mean they have to do something. I just feel that the focus needs to be strictly internal for the time being. For the most part customers don't need much convincing, all they need is a GREAT experience and they'll do all the footwork for you in terms of convincing other people that they need your product. Don't get me wrong, marketing is huge! All i'm saying is that a great product speaks for itself, and marketing a great product is far easier than marketing a mediocre one.

 

post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

I'm merely describing what I'm reading. I've seen very little in the way of any reasoned arguments about what MS is doing here and very much in the way of simply knee-jerk mud-slinging...because it MS.

Ok, let's talk about this for a sec.

You're calling everyone biased because we won't give this reorg the benefit of a doubt? Or Microsoft the benefit of a doubt?

I don't give either of those the benefit of the doubt, but don't mistake the cause as "Apple fanboyism." Apple creates products that people love. As Tim Cook calls it, this is their "North Star." If a Mac or iPad is just a list of hardware specs to you, then stop reading this; we have nothing in common. Microsoft is hard to love. People put up with Microsoft. What did @adam_orth say? "#dealwithit"??? It typically takes them 3 versions to get anything right. Embrace, extend, extinguish. Bundle free what your competitors charge for, even if it's shitty. And there's a reason: their focus is not on the customer: it's on their competitors. That's their North Star. Microsoft is fixated on their competition not their customers. Customers are just collateral to them. And that's how they make me feel. Oh, yes. They earned my scorn. Every last bit of it.

You may now begin apologizing for Microsoft profusely. 1smile.gif

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post #61 of 76
Microsofts original plan was to offer three versions of reorganization: home, professional, ultimate.
post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


That actually hasn't been the case in years. Though Vista was a disaster they've done a good job with 7.

Bzzzt! 7 is the best MS excretion yet but people routinely run virus scans and have driver issues with it, too.

post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I'm at a loss to understand why Ballmer still has a job.


Exactly my thoughts.

As long as Steve Ballmer is there MS hasn't refreshed itself.

Surely Ballmer has enough money by now to rest on a Hawaii beach, watching others use their Apple iDevices !

post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


My point is that you're apologizing for Microsoft. You aren't bias-free. Don't come here labeling people with "partisan bias" without labeling yourself in the same way. These forums are frequented by people who hate Apple, but claim all the bias and apologists are on Apple's side, while they claim to be full of "logic and reason." Just admit you're here being partisan too. It's OK to have biases. These forums run on it.

He's just doing what the script script he was handed says to do. Waggener Edstrom doesn't pay people to go around admitting they are partisan pot stirrers.

post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyLover View Post

 

You've now mentioned this Waggener Edstrum twice. I googled it. How clever. I've been called a "troll"...now a shill...and a MS apologist. You folks are all rather sensitive and defensive when blatant partisan mudslinging is called out. But few, have actually had the courage to defend the mudslinging and partisanship or, even better, actually address the interesting subject of what MS is doing, what it might mean for them, the industry and Apple.

 

What's particularly amusing is that you think this forum, and everyone in it, is important enough to MS to actually pay a PR firm to come in here and defend it. Now that's fairly self-important thinking.


Hey LL,

 

Good dialogue, I tend to agree with you.  Not a lot of discussion of the issues - just a lot of "tee hee, that idiot Balmer again . . ."

 

Not that Balmer isn't a sad spectacle IMO or, as someone else mentioned, that MS still doesn't seem to get that it's (always) about the client/customer.  After all, even if MS is still making (legacy) billions, they have to do something to get into the 21st century.

 

Maybe this reorg IS just smoke and mirrors - time will tell.

post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I'm at a loss to understand why Ballmer still has a job.

 

Photos, lots of photos of Bill and some gerbils. Oh, and a chicken. I keep forgetting about the chicken. 

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post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

"Marketing, advertising, and all customer interaction will focus on portraying Microsoft as a company that offers a tightly integrated ecosystem for both consumers and businesses."

 

Portraying yourself as a company that offers something, and actually delivering that type of experience are two different things. I think it's good that MS is trying to refocus, I mean they have to do something. I just feel that the focus needs to be strictly internal for the time being. For the most part customers don't need much convincing, all they need is a GREAT experience and they'll do all the footwork for you in terms of convincing other people that they need your product. Don't get me wrong, marketing is huge! All i'm saying is that a great product speaks for itself, and marketing a great product is far easier than marketing a mediocre one.

 

 

If a company is trying to market a poor product you'll see a lot of song and dance in their advertising, and... wait, isn't that what we see in Microsoft ads... break dancing and tossing products... yeh...!

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post #68 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Microsofts original plan was to offer three versions of reorganization: home, professional, ultimate.

LOL, I'm sure that was Ballmer's first suggestion. Then someone on the board said, "wait a minute... what are the folks at Apple doing?  We copied them in the 80's and it worked out nicely. Maybe we should try it again?"

post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

In short, "business" has been around since the dawn of time and the first day Ug the caveman traded a sabre-tooth tiger pelt for some beans, but the whole "capitalism" thing is a very modern invention, it's ideologically based (not rationally so), and flawed in many many ways.  

 

The caveman analogy is the kind of business best labeled "Free Enterprise." The management owns the business. It is still the most common form of business in the USA. Capitalism began when a company started selling shares in the business, so the stockholders became the owners. Management then had to satisfy the stockholders by producing glowing quarterly and annual reports (with the emphasis on the short term gain). 

 

Microsoft is very short term gain oriented and that focus trickles down to the team level where every project team is programmed to come out at the end shinning brighter than some others on the team. It's part of how you keep your job.

 

Apple, on the other hand, is more long term focused. Apple, for example, is celebrating the fifth anniversary of iTunes, which, like most of Apple's money makers has been honed over years to be a "best in class" customer experience. Apple has put many things in action to fall into place at a much later date. Most indications are that Apple runs on a five-year product plan. They roll out planned improvements from product inception to product maturation. 

 

At Microsoft, things may take five years to get to inception, but the start on development was a reactive move to competitor's planned actions. Then, it's a scramble to get something out the door, even if it doesn't fit into any part of a long-term plan. Example: Apple introduced the iPhone. Microsoft released the Kin phones that were quickly discontinued and dumped into a hole in the ground. Then they released the Win 7 Nokia phone, which was soon followed by the Win 8 Nokia phone with no plan for their customers upgrading Win 7 phones purchased only a few months earlier. It was like watching a Chinese Fire Drill. 

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post #70 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Howard View Post

Well good to know they now have a faster way to create products and services no one wants or needs. Keep up the great work monkey boy.

"Developers!, Developers!, Developers!"

And yet, that monkey boy achieved what you and I - and anyone around here - cannot even dream of.

That puts things in a bit different perspective, I'd say.
post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I'm at a loss to understand why Ballmer still has a job.

Because he has more money than every single one of us, combined.

 

post #72 of 76
I read and re-read this part six or seven times, and still couldn't reach a different conclusion:

"We are going to focus on completely reinventing experiences like creating or viewing a creative document and what it means to communicate socially or at home or in meetings at work. We are going to immerse people in deep entertainment experiences that let them have serious fun in ways so intense and delightful that they will blur the line between reality and fantasy. And as we develop these new experiences, we will also support our developers with the simplest ways to develop apps or cloud services and integrate with our products."

3 ideas. 3 core focus points. All completely off the mark IMO!

1. Instead of focusing on "completely reinventing experiences" for everyday and familiar things, I would think it might be better to make their systems and software actually work well? Fit the needs and naturally occurring expectations of users for a given task? What is this "reinvention" Ballmer keeps going on about year after year?

2. For both mental and social health, we need to NOT "blur the line between reality and fantasy" in gaming, etc. Seriously.

3. Once again the focus is on "integrating with their products", instead of simply creating a platform with the singular aim of helping developers make the best apps possible.


Seems like just more of Ballmer's typically misguided strategic focus. It's no wonder MS has all but tanked over the past decade under his stewardship...
post #73 of 76
OT to shift this a bit back to Apple, Horace Dediu has an interesting piece on Apple's org structure and splits it in to two categories, sustain and disrupt. He also suspects that the recent YSL CEO hire could be involved with brand management since with this org structure it doesn't make sense to give someone responsibility for a specific product line (e.g. wearables). I'm assuming brand falls under Schiller right now but maybe that will be slotted under this new hire? One thing I'm wondering is who has responsibility for applications like iWork, FCP, GarageBand, etc. Would that fall under Federighi or Schiller?

http://www.asymco.com/2013/07/03/understanding-apples-organizational-structure/

Screen-Shot-2013-07-03-at-7-3-3.37.27-PM.png
post #74 of 76
Fortunately Ballmer has never interfered in the operations in Microsoft's Delusional Thinking Department. Their continuing impact remains unabated.
post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

What's with Microsoft's obsession with using "One" (One Microsift, XBOX One)? Reminds me of their ".Net" fixation in the 1990's.

ONE OS! ONE PLATFORM! ONE BALLMER!

post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

And I'd bet the farm that they fired the people best suited to have innovative ideas.

 

Or they left on their own.  

 

Like when they closed down Pioneer Studios, their R&D group who came up with the outstanding Courier tablet project, and the manager left.

 

Dumb.

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