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iOS 7 Maps go full screen, navigation gets night mode, new Siri options - Page 2

post #41 of 80
The past week we took a little driving trip to the west coast of our state. My wife used Google maps, I used Apple maps. It turned out that if we would have followed Google maps we would have missed our destination by 60 miles! Apple maps was far superior not only in route, but in locating are actual destination. I am really looking forward to the further enhancements in iOS 7.
post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

I'm surprised that Apple didn't include a GPS chip in the MBA while pushing maps into OS X.

 

Just like the iPod touch and WiFi iPads, Macs can determine a quite accurate location from WiFi triangulation.

 

Very little additional value from adding GPS, which iPhones get "for free" on their mobile baseband chip. 

post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

I agree with the other posters -- the issue with Apple Maps is not its features or interface, but the underlying data.  The street data has improved, and the turn-by-turn directions IMO are now superior to the results I get from Google.  But, the business location data remains a mess.  It's all well and good that Apple has improved the interface for reporting errors, but what good does that do if the reported errors don't get fixed? 

 

I've used Apple Maps on my iPad since December, and immediately flagged several problems with business locations in my neighborhood and close to my office.  To date, only one of these errors has been corrected, and that did not happen until last month.  These errors might not originate with Apple.  But, shifting blame does not solve the problem, and end users don't care who supplied the data or how many hands it might have passed through before it wound up on the Apple Maps app.  All that matters is that a lot of errors do show up on the app, and large numbers of them don't get corrected. 

 

Yes, Google Maps also has a lot of errors with the business location data, but in my experience, they also update and correct the data more frequently.  I would much prefer to not use Google's maps at all, but as long as Apple continues to offer up an incomplete alternative, I have no choice but to continue using Google Maps for certain queries. 

 

One problem with trying to rapidly ingest and publish crowdsourced input is that you get Wikipedia-style accuracy, where pranksters and competitors end up defacing your data. A few Google contractors were found contaminating OpenMaps data, for example, even though its not the official policy of Google to attempt to ruin other mapping services.

 

But it is the policy of Google to defame and ridicule Apple (recall the Motorola iLost campaign), so imagine how much BS Apple would have to verify to prevent global attacks by individuals intent on contaminating its data. 

 

Apple does seem like it could create a reputation system based on iCloud accounts, and crowd verified/flagged, to more rapidly fix some of the more obvious errors, but it's a big task. The new Mac Maps app certainly appears to be intended to facilitate crowd-sourced corrections. It's not a simple task however.  

post #44 of 80
Geez. everybody calm down, take a deep breath.. It's BETA 3 for god sake. And I might add a year into it. Pipe down all you perfectionists. Let them work on it. Obviously they GRASP the problem, and it seems like, as least to me having the beta version now, they aren't FOOLING around with it at all.

After what i've seen in additions to it, I believe Cook when he says, he's got the weight of the company behind it. Clearly it shows in this beta.

Chill.

Funny how I get on with my life and really ONLY need maps in my car.. Yea I'm in L.A. and that's my life, but integrated computing is where EVERYTHING is going, like it or not. And yea Apple is there Eco wise TODAY.

I use Apple maps in my FORD as it works better than the MicroSh#t system SYNC..

Why don't any of BITCH and COMPLAIN about how bad vehicle mapping is? And cry why haven't they IMPROVED their preciseness? SYNC gets me LOST all the time. Duh.
post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post

Forcing users to seek out and download a new transit app and deal with a new map interface every time they travel to a new city is the opposite of "It Just Works".

 

It's actually an incredibly smart approach because it not only delegates transit expertise to local app vendors (or the agencies themselves), but also works with any other conceivable system for routing, including bike paths or off road hiking; air/sea connections, even conceivably campus directions & routing. All sorts of things that Apple couldn't begin to care about itself. 

 

It's a plug-in architecture. Arguing that Apple should go out and build custom transit routing solutions for every city on earth fails to comprehend that Google has tried to do this and ended up doing a poor job in many places (and is barred from certain markets by governments or its own policy). Lots of cities where Google Transit simply doesn't work, and it does a terrible job routing between most cities. 

 

That said, if you really love Google Transit and live in a place where it works well, then you can use it. I think its better for competition to have multiple approaches in play to see which works best, rather than having 2-3 big players who just offer copies of each other's more established products.

post #46 of 80
Quote:
a distance legend briefly appears (top left of image on right, below), then vanishes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Yay!!!

 

Yeah!! I don't know why this thing briefly appears then vanishes. It should at least be an option to always appear. Let's hope Apple do that by the final release.

post #47 of 80
Readability is still a huge issue.

Why did they decide to make this ios version so hard to look at?
post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

As for locating/reporting errors -- with a common maps database, the various maps providers could provide mobile, web and desktop tools to do this.

The public editing still needs to be officially authenticated. In my city there is an Open Street Map Nazi who owns a hotel and restaurant. I made dozens of entries for all the popular restaurants and hotels as well as other tourist services. The next time I logged in they were all deleted except for his establishments.

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post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

That's all well and good, but the interface Maps has (on iOS) is already impressive.  The problem is the search facility is awful.  It's taken me to places that don't exist so many times that I only use Google Maps now.

In terms of the version for the Mac, having just started using a new beta of Google Maps in a browser, Apple have a fight on their hands here.  The new Google Maps is very impressive.

In the US, Apple and Google's search capabilities seem to work fine. I have not had any trouble with either. I like Apple's interface, turn by turn, and rerouting capabilities better. Google has got me lost before, not rerouted properly, turn by turn sometimes does not work right, and the interface is not as intuitive as Apple's. Apple's only real weakness in the US, seems to be its reliance on Yelp for POI data. Yelp is real slow updating stuff.
post #50 of 80
Quote:
Emailing a location involves sending a maps.apple.com URL with its coordinates, something that opens in Apple's Maps on iOS or OS X Mavericks, or for web-based users, resolves to a Google Maps URL they can look up.

Isn't it possible that this could resolve to an apple-based, web-based rendering? **** GOOGLE SIDEWAYS
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

That's great. I really like some of the features Maps already has and will get with iOS7 and Mavericks.

Shame they won't do me a damn bit of good since the information it supplies, or more accurately, DOESN'T supply, makes the entire app useless to me.

I live in Vancouver (the Canadian one, not the one in Washington). For some reason I thought this might be the kind of non-USA place Apple would want to focus on, because it's one of the small handful of Canadian cities visited by bajillions of Americans every year. I guess I was wrong.

As recently as a few weeks ago I entered the address of an appliance store that has been in the same location for 20+ years. Apple Maps responded with "No such address exists" or something similar. Google Maps found it.

Then last week I was trying to show a news camera crew the location of a major fire. Not only could Apple Maps not find the address, when I entered an address on the next street over, the map that came up didn't even show the existence of the street we wanted. There was empty space where the street should have been.

I know it's fashionable to bash Apple Maps these days, but I'd much rather sing its praises. I WANT it to work, because it has so many potential advantages over Google. Sadly, it just doesn't.

Bullshit! I live in Kelowna, and travel in and around Vancouver on a regular basis (twice monthly). Apple maps works GREAT. You're talking out of your hat.
post #52 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

One problem with trying to rapidly ingest and publish crowdsourced input is that you get Wikipedia-style accuracy, where pranksters and competitors end up defacing your data. A few Google contractors were found contaminating OpenMaps data, for example, even though its not the official policy of Google to attempt to ruin other mapping services.

 

But it is the policy of Google to defame and ridicule Apple (recall the Motorola iLost campaign), so imagine how much BS Apple would have to verify to prevent global attacks by individuals intent on contaminating its data. 

 

Apple does seem like it could create a reputation system based on iCloud accounts, and crowd verified/flagged, to more rapidly fix some of the more obvious errors, but it's a big task. The new Mac Maps app certainly appears to be intended to facilitate crowd-sourced corrections. It's not a simple task however.  

 

But, the errors that I flagged in my neighborhood can be easily verified using other third party sources.  One of the businesses that I flagged had shut down more than three years ago, and another business opened in its place more than two years ago.  This error remains on the Maps app, even though the business information has been updated on multiple other sites, including Yelp and Google Maps. 

 

The credits for Apple Maps indicate that Acxiom is one of the business data providers.  From having used Acxiom data in the past, I know that they are quick to add new information.  Given that my problem reports identified the original business as having shut down, a third party verification would pick up on the fact that another business has opened in that same location.  Even Yelp updated their listing for that address months ago. 

 

Data contamination by competitors (which I seriously doubt has a material impact on error reporting, given that pranksters are likely far outnumbered by more legitimate contributors) has no bearing on errors that can be cross-checked against other third party sources.  It's those types of obvious errors that Apple needs to take care of in short order, given that they already license listings from multiple vendors. 

post #53 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


In the US, Apple and Google's search capabilities seem to work fine. I have not had any trouble with either. I like Apple's interface, turn by turn, and rerouting capabilities better. Google has got me lost before, not rerouted properly, turn by turn sometimes does not work right, and the interface is not as intuitive as Apple's. Apple's only real weakness in the US, seems to be its reliance on Yelp for POI data. Yelp is real slow updating stuff.


+1

 

Apple's credits for the Maps app identifies Acxiom, Factual, and Localeze as sources for business listings.  It does seem that Apple relies primarily on Yelp for US listings.  But, even then the Maps app seems to lag behind the data on Yelp's site.  And as of late, it seems that Yelp has been much faster with updating their business listings data.  I've wondered whether Apple cross-checks more than one of these data sources when the error reports show up. 

 

I know that with Dun & Bradstreet (which is not one of Apple's data providers), their business listings are verified at least once every three years (often more, but that's their minimum standard).  But, if something shows up on a credit reporting database, then the business record is updated immediately.  Generally, it seems to me that these data vendors add new listings quickly, but it still takes time to purge the outdated cruft out of the system.

 

As far as driving directions go, Apple Maps tends to favor major streets, and that's how it should be.  I now prefer Apple Maps for turn-by-turn directions.  I've seen Google plot out some bizarre routes going through residential neighborhoods that clearly take more time if you know the area.  It's almost like Google Maps tries to minimize driving distance at all cost. 

post #54 of 80
  • Does maps cache directions in the event of a lost signal?
  • Does maps cache alternate re-routs in the event you miss your turn so the re-calculating does not take any time? 
  • Does maps allow for interval POIs where by you can set a destination, say the zoo, then tell maps to find the nearest coffee house, take you there, and then continue your rout to the zoo? 
  • Does maps crowd source for traffic conditions? 
post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph_went_south View Post


Bullshit! I live in Kelowna, and travel in and around Vancouver on a regular basis (twice monthly). Apple maps works GREAT. You're talking out of your hat.

 

What the f*ck are you talking about?! I gave you two specific example of where it failed just in the last two weeks. Next time you're in town look for Marquette Crescent. See how that works out for you.

 

I'm glad it's working for you, but calling me a liar is WAAAAY out of line.

post #56 of 80

Yeh, what's the use supplying info to Apple. I have repeatedly written to Apple through Maps on horrid misplacement of blocks in relation to street grid in the city of Stockholm. It's a MESS! Nuttin happens. Very frustrating. That function is a dummy, like traffic light buttons for pedestrians at road crossings.

post #57 of 80

Apple's maps are still pretty useless in London (UK, not Ontario). Can't find 'Westfield' - the largest shopping centre in Europe, and typing in the name of a pub you're meeting friends at brings up nothing more often than not.

 

Both of these work with the Google maps app.

post #58 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

What the f*ck are you talking about?! I gave you two specific example of where it failed just in the last two weeks. Next time you're in town look for Marquette Crescent. See how that works out for you.

I'm glad it's working for you, but calling me a liar is WAAAAY out of line.

Here you go:

.

And here it is on Google maps - exact same location, adjacent to Boundary Road:

post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The quality of Apple's Maps in terms of POI & search is largely dependent upon the data partners Apple is relying upon. There are lots of errors everywhere, whether govt data, companies like Yelp (often addresses are wrong, even of popular places) or other map data vendors. But you know what? I've ran into similar major errors with Google Maps, even in major cities where you'd think popular places would be located correctly. Global maps is a huge task. It's going to take more than one year to reach perfection. 

People's standards are far higher for Apple, so the reported anecdotes are obviously not flattering to Apple's newer product. All of its advantages are assumed & taken for granted or ignored, while every superior element of Google's is highlighted and its flaws are ignored. 

That is all so true,
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #60 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

It's actually an incredibly smart approach because it not only delegates transit expertise to local app vendors (or the agencies themselves), but also works with any other conceivable system for routing, including bike paths or off road hiking; air/sea connections, even conceivably campus directions & routing. All sorts of things that Apple couldn't begin to care about itself. 

 

It's a plug-in architecture. Arguing that Apple should go out and build custom transit routing solutions for every city on earth fails to comprehend that Google has tried to do this and ended up doing a poor job in many places (and is barred from certain markets by governments or its own policy). Lots of cities where Google Transit simply doesn't work, and it does a terrible job routing between most cities. 

 

 

 

I agree that it's better to delegate transit directions to third-party apps when you lack the data do provide them yourself. But clearly there are compelling advantages for integrating directions into Apple's own mapping app. Otherwise, why did Apple go through the trouble of sourcing its own mapping data to integrate turn-by-turn driving directions? Why did it choose not to stay with Google's data and hand off driving directions to third-party apps like it's doing now with transit? The latter approach might have caused less PR trouble, so Apple must have judged that the benefits of integrated directions outweigh the costs. 

post #61 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

For how much you hate Android you sure don't seem to know much about it (or willing to do even a basic search to see if your baseless claims have merit).


So you CAN use Apple maps on Android?
post #62 of 80
Apple maps has worked great for me so far in the LA area. Looking forward to iOS 7
post #63 of 80
One feature that Apple maps apparently lacks and Google maps has really is important to me. With Google maps, the voice directions will override any audio playing in my car and play the directions through Bluetooth. I can't figure out how to do that with Apple maps.
post #64 of 80

Cool body slam! Joseph!

post #65 of 80
I love the apple maps interface and presentation, along with the flyover where its available. However there is a lot of work that need to go in to their location data and search. I double check my destination in Google maps and use Apple navigation when its correct. I hope Apple would gets the location info and search straightened up in iOS7.
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph_went_south View Post


Here you go:

.

And here it is on Google maps - exact same location, adjacent to Boundary Road:

 

Well I'll be damned. I swear to you, when I tried to bring it up last week I got an empty area where Marquette should be. Three Cedars Drive and Champlain were there, but no Marquette. You're right, it came up when I tried it just now. Maybe there was a glitch in the rendering when I tried before.

 

I stand corrected. And pleased!

post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Your copy and paste routine has some issues. First off, Apple Maps aren't restricted to working in the US. I've driven across Europe with them. They work better than Google's when you're working offline, including when you roam into a country where you don't have data service. Apple's vectors continue to work a very long ways without service, while Google's vectors simply don't, and I don't think Google's iOS app supports offline maps yet, making the problem worse to impossible. 

 

Google has some strong search advantages, and has better maps in some places, but it just lost the majority of half of all smarpthones in iOS 6. Apple now has a premium user installed base, so guess whose maps are going to get better, faster? Google also throws up ads in your maps app, which sucks balls. 

I don't agree with you.

Even though you are right about the vectors, which are much better in Apple's Maps, I was able to cache a route from Lisbon to London by car with Google Maps.

 

Also, I planned a route to Lisbon last week using three different GPS systems (Peugeot, Apple and Google), and Google's was by far the most accurate one. Not to mention when Apple's Maps took me to places that do not exist.

 

I love Apple's products (at least the ones that work), but this one doesn't work yet. It is extremely well designed (it is Apple afterall), but it doesn't work. There are better things out there right now.

post #68 of 80
Looks like a couple of great improvements
post #69 of 80
I really like the presentation and underlying technology of Apple Maps, and the changes here further cement that. The new Google Maps presentation is fussy and unstructured; little tags and widgets poking in from the edges of the screen with no context provided regarding their purpose. The boring kind of flat design. Abstracted, yet still managing to be over-ornamented.

The points of interest data in Apple Maps is really lacking though. Most of the partners like Yelp and OpenTable are not known or popular locally. Of the specific local issues I've reported, only one has been fixed (involved directions to drive off a 4-metre embankment).

Apple need to move swiftly on "ground truthing" and start bringing POI data in house. I've just noticed local building footprints in the vector map view so I know someone is toiling away. But are there enough of them?

This last weekend I was travelling to a house warming and Siri literally directed me to a place four blocks away from the correct location. And I'm not talking New York blocks. This was a good ten minutes by foot. In all fairness Google Maps also pointed to the wrong apartment complex, but at least it had the correct block. It's understandable, but that doesn't stop it from being inconvenient.
post #70 of 80
This is still hinting a mavericks Siri but mostly limited to 2013 devices and later (like 2012 for IOS devices).
post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

This is still hinting a mavericks Siri but mostly limited to 2013 devices and later (like 2012 for IOS devices).

Siri is currently web/networked based so I song see Macs getting it unless all of the processing happen off-network on your device.

Macs don't have the luxury of being constantly connected like the iPhone. That's also why the Maps app isn't for turn by turn. It's mainly to look up a route and then send it to your mobile device.
post #72 of 80

Do we all have to start saying "chrome" in place of "UI" now?

 

It's a nice thorough piece, but the author seemed genuinely offended by the current search and status bars. Sitting there, mocking me with that gradient! Boo skeumorphism! Which moron coded exit signs that look like exit signs? And showing the current time and signal level is just fifteen wasted pixels.

 

I know that minimalism is in right now, but when it comes to driving up to 80 MPH in heavy traffic, I actually prefer a bold UI that can be read quickly. Crazy, right?

 

TBell View Post
Apple's only real weakness in the US, seems to be its reliance on Yelp for POI data. Yelp is real slow updating stuff.

Not to mention it's basically a protection racket, like the Better Business Bureau. Yelp gives small businesses fake one-star reviews that can't be removed without paying a fee.

 

joseph_went_south View Post
v5v View Post
Shame they won't do me a damn bit of good since the information it supplies, or more accurately, DOESN'T supply, makes the entire app useless to me.

Bullshit! I live in Kelowna, and travel in and around Vancouver on a regular basis (twice monthly). Apple maps works GREAT. You're talking out of your hat.

Yep, it's impossible for a worldwide mapping database to have varying quality for different areas and POI. Apple Maps has consistent accuracy for every square mile on Earth. Just like AT&T's cell towers provide the same amount of signal everywhere.

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post #73 of 80
1wink.gif I've seen ios 7. Nothing really fancy about it except the icons and some of the features. Hadn't played around on it though. Those who know someone who has a career in apple they can give you a download. I really was not impressed with ios 7..... Hopefully Apple will come up with something "WOW!" All the hints and leaks I've seen online about the new android phones.. Apple needs to step things up.1hmm.gif
post #74 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Siri is currently web/networked based so I song see Macs getting it unless all of the processing happen off-network on your device.

Uh... why, when all history points to the exact opposite?
Quote:
Macs don't have the luxury of being constantly connected like the iPhone. That's also why the Maps app isn't for turn by turn.

So? Macs "aren't always connected": they still have Maps. And Safari. And every single other Internet option available. They don't have turn-by-turn because they don't have GPS chips. Maps is on every iDevice, even the "not always connected" Wi-Fi-only models. It's not turn-by-turn there.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I agree!

Idealistically, I would think that the United Nations Organization should be the responsible body...

Realistically, I think that the US Government (slightly less corrupt) is a better choice.

Yea, because economy and customer satisfaction are what government bureaus are known for. Are you INSANE?!
post #76 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Uh... why, when all history points to the exact opposite?
So? Macs "aren't always connected": they still have Maps. And Safari. And every single other Internet option available. They don't have turn-by-turn because they don't have GPS chips. Maps is on every iDevice, even the "not always connected" Wi-Fi-only models. It's not turn-by-turn there.

You've partially proved some of my points. But here's a simple question:

What's the point of Macs having Siri if Siri cant do basic task such as turn on Bluetooth when you're outside of a Wifi network?

Having Siri on a Mac could ruin the "just works" experience. That's why I said Siri would need to be able to process basic task without being connected to the Internet if it were to be a quality feature on the Mac.
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

What's the point of Macs having Siri if Siri cant do basic task such as turn on Bluetooth when you're outside of a Wifi network?

Having Siri on a Mac could ruin the "just works" experience.

And yet all iDevices have Siri. You don't have any points to prove; look at history, for heaven's sake. On-device processing isn't happening for years, and Apple doesn't care.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #78 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


And yet all iDevices have Siri. You don't have any points to prove; look at history, for heaven's sake. On-device processing isn't happening for years, and Apple doesn't care.

It's more accurate to say that on-device voice processing isn't happening because Apple is choosing not to implement it. The technology already exists; see for example http://www.phonearena.com/news/Googles-Voice-Search-now-lets-3rd-party-apps-use-offline-voice-recognition-privacy-buffs-rejoice_id39884

post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

It's more accurate to say that on-device voice processing isn't happening because Apple is choosing not to implement it. The technology already exists; see for example http://www.phonearena.com/news/Googles-Voice-Search-now-lets-3rd-party-apps-use-offline-voice-recognition-privacy-buffs-rejoice_id39884

Yes, of course, but they're choosing not to implement it because of the performance. This is Apple, after all.

It's faster for the user (and less of a drain on the battery of the device in question) to call out to a server than to process it on the iDevice itself. I'm certain Apple has done extensive testing on that. Until iDevices can be powerful enough to handle it on-device with the same quality as server-side, they won't.

Macs probably don't have that performance discrepancy, but, then again, dictation is done server-side, too. Of course, that might be simply to help build the Siri phoneme and tone library.

Also, we have to take into account that Apple probably wants it server-side for as long as they can manage, because as soon as you put the processing itself in the hands of users, they run the risk of their competitors stealing their tech. Again.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Yes, of course, but they're choosing not to implement it because of the performance. This is Apple, after all.

It's faster for the user (and less of a drain on the battery of the device in question) to call out to a server than to process it on the iDevice itself.
 
 

You may be right, but any performance issues they have are more likely particular to their algorithms rather than inherent to voice recognition. Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVBj0OSmm0) is an example of an app which uses offline voice processing, and the recognition seems quite fast despite running on what appears to be at best a midrange Motorola phone. 


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/16/13 at 9:06am
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