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Nokia Lumia 1020 hardware 'lags behind' while Microsoft struggles to update Windows Phone

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
The two year old Windows Phone partnership between Nokia and Microsoft, once lampooned by Google Vic Gundotra in a tweet that "two turkeys do not make an eagle," is facing new problems on both the hardware and software fronts.

Nokia Lumia 1020
Source: Nokia


Nokia's hardware features "continue to lag behind"



On the hardware front, a report by Barron's cited a note by Credit Suisse analyst Kulbinder Garcha, who gave a pessimistic appraisal of Nokia's latest Lumia 1020.

The new phone boasts an impressive camera and optics, but Garcha stated that its "hardware features continue to lag behind some of the flagship devices like Samsung Galaxy S4," which is both lighter and thinner despite having a larger screen and faster processor.

Garcha added that Nokia's $300 entry level price for the 1020, and its exclusive availability on AT&T in the U.S., "does not look encouraging? when compared to the $200 starting price for the lower end of the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S4 lines.

While Nokia's phone boasts more storage than the entry level 16GB models of its leading competitors, its high starting price means it can't attract a significant number of buyers looking at options that cost less up front.

Given the increasing competitive pressure among higher end smartphones as the bounds of the finite market are reached, the "Peak Smartphone" issue facing Apple and Samsung will also impact Nokia's premium phone ambitions.

One year ago, Nokia banked upon getting more traction out of its campaign mocking Apple's iPhone by advertising that the "smartphone beta test is over" while attempting to resurrect the then two year old Antennagate "death grip" meme launched by Gizmodo, but despite the negative ads, Lumia hardware isn't exactly flying off the shelf.

Nokia smartphone beta test is over


It was also one year ago that AT&T boasted that its Lumia launch with Nokia would be a "notch above anything we've ever done," involving $100 million of advertising pooled by Microsoft among its Windows Phone partners, and AT&T's designation of Nokia's Lumia models as a "hero" status to be heavily promoted in its retail stores.

Microsoft's software also continues to lag behind



On the software platform side, Nokia is depending on Microsoft to finish a series of core enhancements to Windows Phone, but those fixes are now being pushed off into 2014 as the company scrambles to dribble out incremental, minor updates that catch up to Apple's releases from a year or two ago.

A report by The Verge says Microsoft has outlined a package of minor updates it calls "General Distribution Release 2," which includes browser updates, data use reporting, and other features the site summarized in saying, "overall the changes are very minor for an update eight months after the original Windows Phone 8 release."

More substantial features are being reserved for "Windows Phone Blue," an update expected in early 2014, including a notification center, improved multitasking, and screen rotation lock.

Some of these features might be released sooner in a "General Distribution Release 3" service pack later this year, but the report noted that progress has been delayed by problems "testing new chipsets" and working out bugs specific to particular WP models. "Windows Phone software and ecosystem still lags the competition."

"One particular bug with unbranded devices not sold by carriers is said to have affected the way a handset is identified on a network," the report stated. "We're told that Microsoft had a hard time fixing this particular problem, resulting in delays to other planned work."

The complexity of rolling out patches, fixing bugs, advancing new features while catching up to competitors highlights the advantage Apple holds as a vertically integrated company that builds its own hardware and software in tight coordination.

Microsoft's problems "leaves Nokia and other phone makers having to rely on hardware selling points, knowing full well that the Windows Phone software and ecosystem still lags the competition," the site observed.

Windows Phone apps also continue to lag behind



In addition to struggling to catch up in hardware and software, Windows Phone as a platform is also finding it difficult to attract third party app development. The platform hasn't yet attracted even the attention of Facebook's Instagram, which remains one of the five top titles for Android one year after its release for that platform.

Instagram launched on iOS in October 2010, and remained an iOS exclusive until April 2012, the same month it was acquired by Facebook. Apple's ability to foster exclusive new iOS development that doesn't reach other platforms for years, if ever, serves as a strong attraction for customers, an issue Microsoft is acutely aware of as the developer of the Xbox gaming platform over the last decade.

Despite announcing tools (back in 2011) to help iOS developers port their apps to Windows Phone, Microsoft's mobile platform remains devoid of compelling exclusive apps and has failed to spark significant third party development on par with Apple's App Store.



Microsoft initially downplayed the value of mobile apps, suggesting that Windows Phone didn't need third party "developers, developers, developers" after many years of its chief executive Steve Ballmer popularizing that phrase as a foundational strength of the PC Windows platform in a sweaty, impassioned chant.
post #2 of 68
That video is just so good.
post #3 of 68

The 1020 is far from perfect. But an analyst who compares the thickness of what is clearly a speciality camera-phone to a general purpose phone is clearly challenged when it comes to technology, not to mention common sense.

post #4 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Garcha added that Nokia's $300 entry level price for the 1020, and its exclusive availability on AT&T in the U.S., "does not look encouraging? when compared to the $200 starting price for the lower end of the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S4 lines.

Some of the complaints are comparing apples to oranges. It includes a more higher-end camera not targeted towards the general consumer. Also, the price is actually quite fair. It includes 2 GB RAM, 32 GB space and a 41 MP camera. That is not too shabby for the extra $100. The 32 GB model of the iPhone 5 runs for the same price.

 

My issue is the fact that it is a Windows Phone. Go home Nokia, you're drunk for betting on Microsoft.

post #5 of 68
MS sure is persistent, but I wonder how long it will take before they must review their mobile strategy. So far their only "successes" are outperforming BlackBerry slightly, and killing Symbian and MeeGo (which was easy, because they simply paid for them to die).

After almost three years with WP and millions of advertising Dollars they achieved 3% market share, have one dedicated ODM, and nobody involved makes a single Cent on any of this. To make it even worse, MS ties itself up in a nonsense OS like RT which further divides resources and developers. WP and RT combined cost everybody involved more money than what MS makes from licensing IP to Android makers... A brilliant business strategy.

But I am sure, Ballmer's great reorganisation will solve all of this. Once it's done and the dust has settled in 3-5 years. Might be too late for Nokia though.
post #6 of 68

I think Nokia has a problem.  A $300 smartphone with a really camera on it can't be that good inside and STILL make a profit.   Oh well, who is running these companies anyway?

 

I wonder what the total mfg costs are, including packaging?  If it's more $150, then it's too expensive to mfg., and even at costing $150 for mfg doesn't leave a lot of room for profit.  Remember, they have to sell it through a reseller and the reseller has to mark it up to make a decent margin, and then there is shipping costs from the assembly plant to the distribution location and then to the reseller's store/to your house.  Then there are the things that eat up at profits other than normal overhead is warranty replacements, tech support calls.

post #7 of 68

Nokia is running out of time. Sooner or later they must sell their mapping assets. I hope Apple can pick it up at bargain price.

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post #8 of 68

Biggest problem I see with this is the AT&T exclusivity agreements. Nokia did not learn from the Lumia being ignored and there is no reason this will be any different. By the time the other carriers get their own variants, it will be too late.

post #9 of 68

I wonder if Nokia would not have been more successful had they simply gone with Android. Or perhaps their own Linux which was called Maemo I think. WebOS was actually a pretty cool mobile OS that I think is far superior to Windows which they could probably buy for a song now. I think Nokia may need to consider offering some new options besides Windows only. Tizen is open source and also can run Android apps I believe.

 

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I think Nokia may need to consider offering some new options besides Windows only. Tizen is open source and also can run Android apps I believe.

The deal between MS and Nokia is valid until 2016 and is said to specify minimum licensing volumes. Nokia may have limited means to manoeuvre here. They also fired tons of engineering staff when committing to MS. None of these alternative OSs is really a turnkey solution, it is not like installing Ubuntu on a Windows PC.
post #11 of 68

Apple is looking smarter and smarter for keeping hardware and software all under their control.

 

I feel bad for Nokia, waiting on and trusting Microsoft to supply their mobile phone OS (but in the end, those chose to do so). Ugh.

post #12 of 68
"Windows Phone Blue?"
"General Distribution Release 3" service pack?

I'm interested in the camera -- I know I would use it a lot and get great pix -- but something about the future software upgrades smells too much like Windows.
post #13 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


The deal between MS and Nokia is valid until 2016 and is said to specify minimum licensing volumes. Nokia may have limited means to manoeuvre here. They also fired tons of engineering staff when committing to MS. None of these alternative OSs is really a turnkey solution, it is not like installing Ubuntu on a Windows PC.

I had no idea MS had Nokia locked down that tightly. Nokia still have a lot of fans around the world I just think most of them don't want a Nokia phone with Windows. I wonder if they will offer Android in 2016 when their deal with MS expires. (assuming they are still around by then) 

 

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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post #14 of 68
Steve Ballmer's new chant, "Non-Developers, Non-Developers, Non-Developers!"

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #15 of 68
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Windows Phone software and ecosystem still lags the competition."

 

Is it time for Windows Phone 9 yet?  Let's see now.  WP7: November 2010. WP8: October 2012.  WP9: October 2014?

No, I guess it's not time for Windows Phone 9 yet.  Microsoft seems to be on a 2-year schedule. 

 

So the real question is actually "Will Nokia be around when Windows Phone 9 is ready?"

I'd give them a 25% chance of surviving another year and a quarter, unless they "diversify"

and become YAAHM.  Yet Another Android Handset Manufacturer.

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post #16 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogCowabunga View Post

"Windows Phone Blue?"
"General Distribution Release 3" service pack?

I'm interested in the camera -- I know I would use it a lot and get great pix -- but something about the future software upgrades smells too much like Windows.

Just get yourself a proper camera if you want "great pix" with the big megapixels.

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #17 of 68
Its true that in the US Nokia and Win phones market share is still very low. But the world is bigger than the US. In the UK they just went passed 10%, in Russia Nokia now sells more than Apple, in many countries Win Phone is overtaking Blackberry and in less developed countries where phones arnt subsidised there hitting 30% market share.

I also find it really odd when people mention the apps that are available. It seems the only people with a problem with the apps are the people without the phone. Ive lost count now of the number of articles ive read saying "some app finally comes to windows phone", then when you read the reviews in the store the apps actually get slated by win phone users because there an identical copy of the ios version and there's already better alternatives.
post #18 of 68
I don't think a better camera attached to a 'meh' phone is going to sway consumers. If I want better than phone quality pictures, I'll spend $500 for a Canon T4i with lens. Oh wait. That's what I did.

I want my phone to be an phone and do Apps. I do that a lot more than take pictures. As stated in a Forbes article:
the problem with emphasizing the Lumia 1020s pixel count is that no consumer wakes up thinking, "What I really need is larger images from my phone." Nokia is betting that there is a large subset of mainstream users though who want better images from their phone. But start to mention the 1020s most relevant attributes, like pixel oversampling, 1/1.5-inch sensor size and lens element construction, to the mainstream consumer and their eyes will soon glaze over. Add to this the fact that the vast majority of 1020 users will actually be dealing with much more manageable and shareable 5MP rather than 41MP files and there%u2019s a potential messaging problem.

PS: The 1020 is fugly, too.
post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Nokia has a problem.  A $300 smartphone with a really camera on it can't be that good inside and STILL make a profit.   Oh well, who is running these companies anyway?

I wonder what the total mfg costs are, including packaging?  If it's more $150, then it's too expensive to mfg., and even at costing $150 for mfg doesn't leave a lot of room for profit.  Remember, they have to sell it through a reseller and the reseller has to mark it up to make a decent margin, and then there is shipping costs from the assembly plant to the distribution location and then to the reseller's store/to your house.  Then there are the things that eat up at profits other than normal overhead is warranty replacements, tech support calls.

$300 with 2 yr contract
post #20 of 68

Funny for Nokia to talk about Smartphone beta tests, because it reminds me of all those endless times of having to hard reset my Nokia Smartphone by removing the battery because their Symbian or whatever system that was hung up. ;-)

 

As for Microsoft, yep, they seem to have quite a big problem and I believe it is in their DNA and their persistence to hold on to Windows and its technologies. They are not used to deliver rapidly deliver solid incremental releases. They are used to take half a decade in order to release a buggy behemoth. No surprises here.

 

As for the platform itself not gaining traction: Not surprised at all. Their worldwide marketshare is still so unbelievably irrelevant in the light of iOS and Android, that no developer who hasn't been bought over or is some core MS evangelist will even think of investing into that platform. Naturally, Microsoft also had to go its usual way with its own technologies, some of which people don't really like that much and believed they could make a dent, whereas people are just not too interested. Out of the three, WP is probably the hardest to port for. Add to this the fact, that I firmly believe developers aren't actually even interested in a third platform succeeding. It wouldn't make any sense to split the user base across even more ecosystems, requiring you to develop, support and test three versions upfront in order to get the same amount of revenue, not even considering personal dislike here.

post #21 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Nokia has a problem.  A $300 smartphone with a really camera on it can't be that good inside and STILL make a profit.   Oh well, who is running these companies anyway?

 

I wonder what the total mfg costs are, including packaging?  If it's more $150, then it's too expensive to mfg., and even at costing $150 for mfg doesn't leave a lot of room for profit.  Remember, they have to sell it through a reseller and the reseller has to mark it up to make a decent margin, and then there is shipping costs from the assembly plant to the distribution location and then to the reseller's store/to your house.  Then there are the things that eat up at profits other than normal overhead is warranty replacements, tech support calls.

If the total COGS on a phone were just $150, they'd be making a huge profit.  Remember that $300 is the subsidized price.  The full retail price (which is close to what carriers pay the manufacturers) is probably somewhere in the $500-$650 range.  Carriers make no margin on a subsidized phone...they actually take a loss and make it up on the monthly account charges.  As for the warranty replacements and tech support.  Those costs are estimated and rolled into the total COGS of $150.

post #22 of 68
I am a long time everything Apple user, but my main phone is a Sony Android, since I wanted an unlocked handset that won't break a bank. But I am definitely NOT in love with the hardware/ software combination. It's just barely OK and not too pretty. Then I got a Nokia Lumia 620 for free after extending the contract for my secondary line (as in "it's free, what the heck). I got so pleasantly surprised with the performance of Win Phone 8 and the combination with Nokia hardware, everything is very snappy and quite elegant. I really like the tiled main screen and the typographic touches. Of course, the OS is still quite unpolished, the Facebook integration is very choppy etc., but I could live with it even if it were my main phone. I feel Win Phone is almost there and if MS would ramp up their efforts a notch, it could be a good contender. I feel people love to hate MS a bit too much...
post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by createrio View Post

I am a long time everything Apple user, but my main phone is a Sony Android, since I wanted an unlocked handset that won't break a bank. But I am definitely NOT in love with the hardware/ software combination. It's just barely OK and not too pretty. Then I got a Nokia Lumia 620 for free after extending the contract for my secondary line (as in "it's free, what the heck). I got so pleasantly surprised with the performance of Win Phone 8 and the combination with Nokia hardware, everything is very snappy and quite elegant. I really like the tiled main screen and the typographic touches. Of course, the OS is still quite unpolished, the Facebook integration is very choppy etc., but I could live with it even if it were my main phone. I feel Win Phone is almost there and if MS would ramp up their efforts a notch, it could be a good contender. I feel people love to hate MS a bit too much...

 

I agree with you about the tiles. I think they're great...the best part about the OS, and I wish iOS had an equivalent. I thought at first the live updating was kind of gimmicky, but after carrying the phone around for a week or so, I rarely needed to go into apps because the information i was looking for was right there on the tile. Not to mention the Kids Center, which is something iOS desperately needs.
post #24 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Is it time for Windows Phone 9 yet?  Let's see now.  WP7: November 2010. WP8: October 2012.  WP9: October 2014?
No, I guess it's not time for Windows Phone 9 yet.  Microsoft seems to be on a 2-year schedule. 

So the real question is actually "Will Nokia be around when Windows Phone 9 is ready?"
I'd give them a 25% chance of surviving another year and a quarter, unless they "diversify"
and become YAAHM.  Yet Another Android Handset Manufacturer.

The question is will MS dare to have a OS Ten? Good job they don't use Roman numerals ...
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #25 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I think Nokia may need to consider offering some new options besides Windows only. Tizen is open source and also can run Android apps I believe.

The deal between MS and Nokia is valid until 2016 and is said to specify minimum licensing volumes. Nokia may have limited means to manoeuvre here. They also fired tons of engineering staff when committing to MS. None of these alternative OSs is really a turnkey solution, it is not like installing Ubuntu on a Windows PC.

There's Ubuntu for Smartphones.
Even the option to run a desktop OS version of Ubuntu when docked and attached to screen and keyboard.
So there would at least the option to be unique in a market niche, and if they were truly open, a lot of people sick of the rooting/jaulbreaking cat&mouse game might actually go that way.
post #26 of 68

Watching Windows Phone fail is kind of like watching Web OS fail. You have an innovative new OS that's trying to shake a stale legacy, but struggle with a lack of developer support. In Palm's case the hardware wasn't so great with the Pre's either. Apple enthusiasts know first hand that in technology the best product doesn't always win. In fact, it's actually quite rare to see the best product win. There are many factor's that go into that, but mostly comes down to effective marketing (Samsung Galaxy phones come to mind) and or lack of reasonable choice (Windows on PC). 

 

Android's marketshare is just too fat. But it's like a snowball rolling downhill, where as it gets bigger and bigger it becomes harder to stop until it's run over every competent challenger. This momentum is called Apps. Apple and Google like the giants they are wield it like a giant battle axe over upcoming challengers and slay them on the spot. They don't have apps, they can't get apps because they need marketshare but in order to get marketshare they need apps. It's as if every new OS that enters the mobile OS market is a Linux variant.  

 

Microsoft, Palm, Blackberry, Ubuntu OS - "Look bells and whistles and animations and color and our native apps are good!"... Customer "Yeah but can I tweet a picture of my cat to instagram while playing candy crush and browsing pinterest on deep frying fried french fries?!"

 

So yeah, Nokia can't just push out a big square colorful brick phone and rely on a good OS with no apps. That stuff just doesn't matter to the consumer as much as other things. So what's the next option? Do what they do best! Put in a beautiful camera! Yeah sure, market it as 42 megapixels to get the dumb people over to your phone, I mean you *are* saying it's a 42mp sensor and not exactly saying that's the size of the photos, so that's in the bag! And sure, Instagram, Vine and other apps you've yet to get on your platform haven't made the leap, but hey, you have the best camera phone on the market now! It would be solid PR for those guys to make their way onto the platform. I mean, who doesn't want to ruin great pictures with grainy yellow filters that look like a cat peed on a polaroid? Even if instagram doesn't come out for Windows Phone i'm sure you can find substitute apps to ruin your pictures before posting them on your social network.

 

This isn't in the bag by any means. The phone is expensive. But Nokia has the ability to sacrifice hardware power to put more money into the camera. Phone hardware is pretty mature now. Heck, iPad Mini sports an old A5 from the iPad 2, and nobody cares about that. Why? Because it's good enough! Take the throttle off of the spec war and put that cash into a stellar feature, like the camera. Nokia can transform the Windows Phone brand to represent creativity in video and photography if they set their sights on it. That's something no other company is doing right now, and that niche may pay off down the road. 

post #27 of 68
I wonder if iOS and the iPhone can even begin to process a 38MP photo.
post #28 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by createrio View Post

I am a long time everything Apple user, but my main phone is a Sony Android, since I wanted an unlocked handset that won't break a bank. But I am definitely NOT in love with the hardware/ software combination. It's just barely OK and not too pretty. Then I got a Nokia Lumia 620 for free after extending the contract for my secondary line (as in "it's free, what the heck). I got so pleasantly surprised with the performance of Win Phone 8 and the combination with Nokia hardware, everything is very snappy and quite elegant. I really like the tiled main screen and the typographic touches. Of course, the OS is still quite unpolished, the Facebook integration is very choppy etc., but I could live with it even if it were my main phone. I feel Win Phone is almost there and if MS would ramp up their efforts a notch, it could be a good contender. I feel people love to hate MS a bit too much...
The lumia 610 is an amazing phone when you consider it costs £100 on PAYG thats a 5th of the iPhone and other high end phones. Aside from not running some games like nova 3 and mordern combat 4 that need the extra memory, MS seem to have optimised the OS so well that theres virtually no difference between the budget phones and high end ones in terms of performance. Makes you question how long £400-£500 phones can realisitcally last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post

I agree with you about the tiles. I think they're great...the best part about the OS, and I wish iOS had an equivalent. I thought at first the live updating was kind of gimmicky, but after carrying the phone around for a week or so, I rarely needed to go into apps because the information i was looking for was right there on the tile.Not to mention the Kids Center, which is something iOS desperately needs.
Live tiles are great, but what nobody seems to mention is how good it is having secondary tiles for apps. To me the bet bit about the tiles screen is being able to pin individual albums/playlists, driving routes for traffic updates, kindle books, contacts, evernote or one note notebooks etc. it really makes the difference from having a screen full of apps, to a screen with the stuff from the apps that you actually want.

Kids center is also the perfect solution for anyone who has kids who love playing with your phone.
post #29 of 68
Quote:
While Nokia's phone boasts more storage than the entry level 16GB models of its leading competitors, its high starting price means it can't attract a significant number of buyers looking at options that cost less up front.

How can DED write that with a straight face?  The iPhone has always been about the most expensive phone to own since it was introduced.  I have never seen DED complain about an iPhone being too expensive for some people.

 

He just doesn't get it.  The 1020 has no competitors for those who want the best camera you can get in a phone.  The TV ads I have seen for the 925 are heavily playing up the low-light capabilities of the camera and enticing young people with the idea that the best part of the day is the night, showing it being used in low light situations and showing comparison photos taken under the same conditions by an iPhone.  It is a very effective commercial.  I imagine they will take a similar line with the 1020.

 

The poor consumer is so spoiled for choice these days.  Large screened Samsungs, the gorgeous HTC one, the smaller and smart iPhone 5, The Nokia 1020, the Samsung S4 Active that is waterproof and even has a camera mode to shoot videos and stills underwater.

post #30 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

... The 1020 has no competitors for those who want the best camera you can get in a phone. ...

 

I'm not sure how you can write that with a straight face after questioning how others wrote with a straight face.

 

Maybe Nikon or Canon should start making smartcameras for those people: "A little awkward to hold up to your ear to make a call, but, the best phone you can get in a camera."  

post #31 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Its true that in the US Nokia and Win phones market share is still very low. But the world is bigger than the US. In the UK they just went passed 10%, in Russia Nokia now sells more than Apple, in many countries Win Phone is overtaking Blackberry and in less developed countries where phones arnt subsidised there hitting 30% market share.

I also find it really odd when people mention the apps that are available. It seems the only people with a problem with the apps are the people without the phone. Ive lost count now of the number of articles ive read saying "some app finally comes to windows phone", then when you read the reviews in the store the apps actually get slated by win phone users because there an identical copy of the ios version and there's already better alternatives.

A friend of mine got a Lumia because it was cheap. I had a play with it and it seemed alright. She doesn't really use any apps except Facebook, I think a lot of Android users are the same. I like that they are pushing the boundaries with the camera, it should make Apple up their game. At least Windows Phone is a different approach to a mobile OS, whereas Android is just a cheap knock off.
post #32 of 68

      How does that Canon fit in your pocket anyway? I think the yellow 1020 looks very good. I take a lot of pictures and yeah, if you are taking pics at a wedding or some big event and don't mind carrying around a heavy huge camera to get the best pics, then a large digital SLR is perfect. For very good pics whenever and wherever you are, the Lumia owns. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeWarrior View Post

I don't think a better camera attached to a 'meh' phone is going to sway consumers. If I want better than phone quality pictures, I'll spend $500 for a Canon T4i with lens. Oh wait. That's what I did.

I want my phone to be an phone and do Apps. I do that a lot more than take pictures. As stated in a Forbes article:
the problem with emphasizing the Lumia 1020s pixel count is that no consumer wakes up thinking, "What I really need is larger images from my phone." Nokia is betting that there is a large subset of mainstream users though who want better images from their phone. But start to mention the 1020s most relevant attributes, like pixel oversampling, 1/1.5-inch sensor size and lens element construction, to the mainstream consumer and their eyes will soon glaze over. Add to this the fact that the vast majority of 1020 users will actually be dealing with much more manageable and shareable 5MP rather than 41MP files and there%u2019s a potential messaging problem.

PS: The 1020 is fugly, too.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

I'm not sure how you can write that with a straight face after questioning how others wrote with a straight face.

 

Maybe Nikon or Canon should start making smartcameras for those people: "A little awkward to hold up to your ear to make a call, but, the best phone you can get in a camera."  


Which phones have better cameras?

post #34 of 68

The article says both Nokia hardware and Microsoft software are "lagging behind" but doesn't specify what they're lacking. It may be true, but the article sure doesn't demonstrate it. I can claim I'm much smarter than Stephen Hawking if I don't have to provide any kind of comparison.

post #35 of 68

As someone who owns:

  • iPhone 4
  • iPod Touch (4th gen)
  • nook Hd+ (bought on sale)
  • Lumia 920


It is safe to say that Windows phone is not behind generally in software if you consider the OS.  The app selection will be lacking for many people.

Not for me, as I have a total of 32 apps on my iphone... including the stock ones.  People who use a lot more apps certainly would be far better off with iOS and/or android.  Personally, of the two, I would choose iOS.

The Lumia has its problems, certainly, but I find it much more enjoyable to use then my iPhone (I should state it is iOS 5, and jailbroken (for unlimited tabs + horizontal lock rotation) and iPod Touch (iOS 6).

The biggest features of the Lumia line (at least the 92x and 1020) are the amazing cameras.  

if Windows Phone ever gets a collection of apps that is enough to draw the app users in it could be a scary force.

EDIT: I have only owned my Lumia for a little over 2 weeks at the time of posting.  I may be in a "honeymoon" period with it.  All I know is I have barely touched my iPhone, iPod Touch, or noob Hd+ since I got it.

EDIT2: in response to someone who talked about "can I instagram a picture of my cat while eating french fries" or whatever it was that was said, Windows Phone (unlike Windoze) is deeply integrated with social networking.  Personally, I am not much into social networking and stuff like it, but Windows Phone integration is much deeper than what I have experienced under my nook, iTouch or iPhone.

-QAMF


Edited by QAMF - 7/13/13 at 6:49pm

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post #36 of 68
Nokia hardware isn't "lagging" behind any more than Apple's hardware.
Apple's iPhone 5 specs aren't even as good as the Nokia 1020.

Nokia has Gorilla glass 3. iPhone doesn't
Nokia 4.5" has 334 PPI, iPhone 326 PPI
Nokia 2GB ram, iPhone 1GB ram
Nokia 41MP Cam with Xenon Flash, iPhone 8MP w led flash
Nokia front cam 2MP, iPhone 1.2MP
Nokia 2000mAh battery, iPhone 1400mAh battery

But, we all know that iPhone runs smooth as butter, doesn't lag and chop like android (try an S4, you will see lag) BUT, this same buttery smoothness also happens on Windows phones.
I bought my wife the HTC Titan 1 over 2 years ago and that phone doesn't lag at all and it has half the specs on this Nokia flagship.

Point being Windows phones, just like iPhones, don't need 1.9Ghz quad cores to run smooth.
The Galaxy S4 has the 1.9Ghz Quad and 2GB ram and lags like a b**ch.

Nokia and Windows phone problem isn't hardware or specs. These aren't any good apps.
No apps = useless phone.
I looked at the 64 apps I have on my iPhone, and went to Microsofts market place and search for each app. Microsoft store had a total of 7 of the 64 apps I currently USE on my iPhone.
bring on the 5.5" iPhone 6!!!!
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bring on the 5.5" iPhone 6!!!!
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post #37 of 68
Quote:Originally Posted by r4d4 View Post

Nokia hardware isn't "lagging" behind any more than Apple's hardware.
Apple's iPhone 5 specs aren't even as good as the Nokia 1020.

Semi-true.

 

Quote:Originally Posted by r4d4 View Post

Nokia has Gorilla glass 3. iPhone doesn't
Nokia 4.5" has 334 PPI, iPhone 326 PPI
Nokia 2GB ram, iPhone 1GB ram
Nokia 41MP Cam with Xenon Flash, iPhone 8MP w led flash
Nokia front cam 2MP, iPhone 1.2MP
Nokia 2000mAh battery, iPhone 1400mAh battery

Yeah, most of this the iPhone is "Behind" (note, the max MP the Nokia direct can use in a photo is 38 I believe, fwiw).

Just remember, the larger the screen the larger the battery.


Also, to note, the GPU of the iPhone is much stronger than the one in the Windows Phones (to my knowledge, all WP8 use 1.5Ghz dual core CPU w/ Adreno 225, which seems to be about on par with iPhone 5 in CPU, and half speed in GPU)

EDIT: on my Lumia 920 I got 898 versus 908 of iPhone 5 in Sunspider, so should be approx same performance
 

Quote:Originally Posted by r4d4 View Post

Nokia and Windows phone problem isn't hardware or specs. These aren't any good apps.
No apps = useless phone.
I looked at the 64 apps I have on my iPhone, and went to Microsofts market place and search for each app. Microsoft store had a total of 7 of the 64 apps I currently USE on my iPhone

Yup.  If your an appict Windows Phone is not for you.

And how does no apps = useless phone?  Please, I really do want to know.  Is the WP8 missing an app to call people (Sorry, couldn't resist) ;)

However, I am willing to bet of the 59 apps (not including stock I assume) there is probably a similar app for all of the remaining 59 that do the same/almost the same thing.

EDIT: I do wish iOS (and Android) would implement something like WP8 "try this app" which is very nice to use have before truly buying an app.  That is pretty much the only "advantage" WP8 has over iOS/Android in apps.  (unless you count coming with Microsoft Office an app advantage.... which I certainly don't).

cheers!
-QAMF
 


Edited by QAMF - 7/14/13 at 12:44am

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post #38 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

Semi-true.

Yup.  If your an appict Windows Phone is not for you.

And how does no apps = useless phone?  Please, I really do want to know.  Is the WP8 missing an app to call people (Sorry, couldn't resist) ;)

However, I am willing to bet of the 59 apps (not including stock I assume) there is probably a similar app for all of the remaining 59 that do the same/almost the same thing.

EDIT: I do wish iOS (and Android) would implement something like WP8 "try this app" which is very nice to use have before truly buying an app.  That is pretty much the only "advantage" WP8 has over iOS/Android in apps.  (unless you count coming with Microsoft Office an app advantage.... which I certainly don't).

cheers!
-QAMF
 

Here are a few examples: and just One of these are a deal breaker. My bank app. 

 

My bank app: no

Starbucks app: no

Any.do: no (yes there are note apps but I need them to sync with a Mac, not windows and I don't like evernote. 

Fantastical: No (hate the calendar on WP8) and fantastical sync with the Mac app

G+: no 

Local TV station weather app: No 

Google Music: No

Fieldrunners 1 & 2: both No

Shazam: No

Geico App: No 

Songpop: No 

SayHi: No

Google Drive: No

Catch: No

Google Voice: No

OFFICIAL Facebook app; No, it's made my microsoft, even Facebook won't bother making an app for WP8. (the WP8 Facebook sucks compared to the iPhone FB app)

 

 

I could go on and on. But ALL of those are available on Android And Apple.  WP8 has the basic, call, text, calendar, alarm apps. I can get a $10 flip phone with those apps pre installed as well. 

I can't see owning a phone that would ask me to give up apps i LIKE and use just to have a "different" platform. 

I don't want to use some 3rd party "knock off" app to replace Name Brand apps. 

 

Take all of those apps. 3 of them would keep me from using WP8.  My bank app, My local live alert weather app, and my Geico app. (the geico app keeps me from having to print off insurance cards, I get digital ones that are always current and legal where I live.)

And there are no apps that "do the same thing" for those apps. 

bring on the 5.5" iPhone 6!!!!
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bring on the 5.5" iPhone 6!!!!
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post #39 of 68

Any company that puts its trust in MicroShit is doomed... And for that developer developer shouting freak; kids should be chasing him around shooting paint balls. 

post #40 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by r4d4 View Post

Here are a few examples: and just One of these are a deal breaker. My bank app. 

 

My bank app: no

Starbucks app: no

Any.do: no (yes there are note apps but I need them to sync with a Mac, not windows and I don't like evernote. 

Fantastical: No (hate the calendar on WP8) and fantastical sync with the Mac app

G+: no 

Local TV station weather app: No 

Google Music: No

Fieldrunners 1 & 2: both No

Shazam: No

Geico App: No 

Songpop: No 

SayHi: No

Google Drive: No

Catch: No

Google Voice: No

OFFICIAL Facebook app; No, it's made my microsoft, even Facebook won't bother making an app for WP8. (the WP8 Facebook sucks compared to the iPhone FB app)

 

 

I could go on and on. But ALL of those are available on Android And Apple.  WP8 has the basic, call, text, calendar, alarm apps. I can get a $10 flip phone with those apps pre installed as well. 

I can't see owning a phone that would ask me to give up apps i LIKE and use just to have a "different" platform. 

I don't want to use some 3rd party "knock off" app to replace Name Brand apps. 

 

Take all of those apps. 3 of them would keep me from using WP8.  My bank app, My local live alert weather app, and my Geico app. (the geico app keeps me from having to print off insurance cards, I get digital ones that are always current and legal where I live.)

And there are no apps that "do the same thing" for those apps. 

 

I see your point in that you cannot use a Windows Phone exactly like you can an iPhone.

 

But do you know that Facebook integrates into the People Hub?  It allows for you to post, send direct messages views walls and aggregate all the activity with LinkedIn and twitter as well.  You can also do the same by person or group and pin that to your Home Screen. Even better, the person tiles from People also keep track of all your communications with that person, so that the tile essentially becomes an app dedicated to that person where you can see everything.

 

As for Google integration, that's like being upset that a Ford car cannot be serviced at an GM dealer.  Try outlook.com/Hotmail if you want everything to sync automatically with the cloud and your other computers and devices.

 

I noticed you did not comment on the Nokia's built-in mapping and transit features(apps) along with their out-of-the-box augmented reality functions.

 

I have Shazam on Windows Phone 7.5 and also a Bing application that does the same when you press and hold the search button.

 

Google drive? I like Skydrive and Office 365 because it works perfectly on my Mac pro and iPad as well.  I actually like having office on my Mac Pro running both OS X and Windows 8 Pro 64bit and integrates with my work responsibilities by putting everything on the cloud.

 

Also be aware that iOS 7 is following many of the innovations started by Windows Phone 8.

 

Yes, iOS has more apps, but when you realize that IE is on your phone, that does not pose a problem as you can go to your bank website, login and then save that webpage on your home screen as an "banking app"

 

All these platforms are good these days if you take an hour or two to learn the features. 

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