or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Editorial: Google's Android haunted by Steve Jobs' warnings on app signing security
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Editorial: Google's Android haunted by Steve Jobs' warnings on app signing security - Page 2

post #41 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

A bit disingenuous to start your story off with a line that  you "interviewed" Steve Jobs when in reality you asked a question at a stock holders meeting. An interview implies a face to face detailed conversation or at the very least a series of questions or something a little more intimate than asking a question over a mic far away in a crowded room. 

 

I was wondering about that. In fact, I remember the another shareholder writing about DED's 'interview'. He was very annoyed that DED acted like a dick to get the microphone in order to ask a question that had very little to do with the shareholders' meeting.

post #42 of 180

I enjoy reading DED articles because he commands enormous historical facts.  The facts that Android thieves want to hide so they want the world to believe Android is not a copycat of iOS. 

 

For this article I like to add that the first iPhone is limited in its capacity.  Thus initially Apple is not warm to third party development because too many apps on the first iPhone might degrade its performance.  Old users will remember initially iOS will quit an app as soon as user hits the home button. 
 

post #43 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

I was wondering about that. In fact, I remember the another shareholder writing about DED's 'interview'. He was very annoyed that DED acted like a dick to get the microphone in order to ask a question that had very little to do with the shareholders' meeting.

URL?

post #44 of 180
``Six years later, his answers are now haunting Google's rival Android platform because the search giant has failed to heed the advice leaking from the top of Apple's ship. ''

Something amiss in this statement:

``Six years later, his answers are now haunting Apple's rival [Google] Android platform because the search giant has failed to heed the advice leaking from the top of Apple's ship.
post #45 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by iOSx View Post

Can we get more Apple news, and less Android hate?

No one is forcing you to read it.

post #46 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

This "platform war" meme is for phone makers and fans, but the more successful devs don't generally buy into it, simply developing for both.

How many of these popular iOS apps aren't available for Android?  Can you list even a dozen from the top 100 iOS apps that aren't also in Google Play?

Correct... the more successful devs can afford to develop for two or more platforms... maybe by hiring additional developers.

But what about a first time developer? Do they develop for both iOS and Android?

Probably not... it's been proven, time and time again, that the iOS App Store is where you'll have a better chance of success. And that's where they focus their efforts first.

We don't hear this very often: "Amazing Android app finally ported to iOS"


As for the popular apps... don't most of them get popular on iOS first... and then go to Android? And some apps never go to Android at all...
post #47 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

As for the popular apps... don't most of them get popular on iOS first... and then go to Android? And some apps never go to Android at all...

Popular Photography's app recommendation lists, for example, are always "iOS only, iOS only, iOS only, iOS and Android, iOS only..." Occasionally an "Android only", but they're the worst of the bunch.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #48 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

This "platform war" meme is for phone makers and fans, but the more successful devs don't generally buy into it, simply developing for both.

 

How many of these popular iOS apps aren't available for Android?  Can you list even a dozen from the top 100 iOS apps that aren't also in Google Play?

 

Apple has an App Store exclusives page up listing:

 

 

more than three dozen new releases

more than three dozen popular apps

more than three dozen popular games

 
So that's over 9 times the "dozen apps" you asked for. You could also go through the top iOS games yourself and note how many are on Android. 
 
Thing is, the Android versions are also often lower quality, crashier, full of ads, and rarely updated. Few apps take any real advantage of new Android features, and many do not work on anything but a select number of devices. On top, app developers from Facebook to Samsung take advantage of the non-security of Android to collect far more data and monitor the apps you install and launch and the people you call. 
 
So yes, there's a vast difference. Also the fact that Apple pays out twice as much to developers than everyone else combined.
post #49 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post


I'm not saying that. The information about Google and Android is fine. My issue is with the tone in which he writes. It is very negative and wears on me at least. Hard to make even half way through this one. The information is great. The underlying message "Google takes shortcuts because building a quality and secure OS is not its priority" is also fine. You can make a point and cite facts without sounding like you are whining about it.

 

Jeez, I didn't see any whining in the opinion piece. It was a good article with just the right amount of gloating and self-satisfied "told-you-so" stirred in. 

 

I expect some more of the same next week and look forward to it. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #50 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

This "platform war" meme is for phone makers and fans, but the more successful devs don't generally buy into it, simply developing for both.

How many of these popular iOS apps aren't available for Android?  Can you list even a dozen from the top 100 iOS apps that aren't also in Google Play?

 

Apple has an App Store exclusives page up listing:

 

 

more than three dozen new releases

more than three dozen popular apps

more than three dozen popular games

 
So that's over 9 times the "dozen apps" you asked for. You could also go through the top iOS games yourself and note how many are on Android.

Both platforms have a lot of "exclusives", but how many are in the top 100?

post #51 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 
So yes, there's a vast difference. Also the fact that Apple pays out twice as much to developers than everyone else combined.

 

Apple may pay out way more to developers then all the other platforms combined, but Microsoft will throw money at you if you even look like you might write a shitty app for their pathetic platform. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #52 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

This "platform war" meme is for phone makers and fans, but the more successful devs don't generally buy into it, simply developing for both.

 

How many of these popular iOS apps aren't available for Android?  Can you list even a dozen from the top 100 iOS apps that aren't also in Google Play?

 

Uh, no. Smart developers develop for iOS first, then Android second (if at all). Large companies (like Facebook or major banks) have to develop for all platforms as their success depends on it. The rest of the developers who have to make a choice will pick iOS. This is still true despite that whiny little Eric Schmidt predicting that developers would shift to Android because of market share (it's been 19 months Eric, why hasn't it happened yet?).

 

List a dozen? Didn't you try this pathetic argument some time ago?

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #53 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Both platforms have a lot of "exclusives", but how many are in the top 100?

 

Umm... the only exclusive Android apps I could find were malware, and they were VERY popular. Probably filled the whole top 100 slots.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #54 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Popular Photography's app recommendation lists, for example, are always "iOS only, iOS only, iOS only, iOS and Android, iOS only..." Occasionally an "Android only", but they're the worst of the bunch.

Thanks 1smile.gif

I found another interesting article here: http://www.tuaw.com/2013/04/19/why-companies-are-still-deploying-ios-apps-first/

Apple device owners tend to do more mobile web browsing, as has been widely known for awhile. But they're also increasingly likely to stay with apps over time – reports have shown that iOS users are more loyal to the apps they download, for instance.

But perhaps most importantly is the fact that some number of Android owners aren't downloading mobile applications at all. Google tacitly acknowledged this fact earlier this month, when it made a change to the way it measures Android version adoption on its Developers site. The company explained that, going forward, it would only show data reflecting those devices that had visited the Google Play Store.

Or in other words, there are enough Android devices out there which are not visiting the Google Play Store to affect the data that developers most care about – people who might download their apps.

In short... even though there are more Android users out there... iOS users tend to engage with their phone more... and download, use and pay for more apps.

No wonder why iOS tends to be where apps begin their life.
post #55 of 180

What will DED say when hackers do find an exploitable flaw in iOS? All major DRM systems on every every platform have been broken so far, even those with many many layers of defense-in-depth. Will he say that Apple took shortcuts? Charlie Miller along found 20 OSX 0-day attacks. Is that the famous Apple build quality? Shipping a desktop OS with 20 security holes?

 

The reality is, all complex software systems have exploitable holes, it is impossible to create a 100% secure system. The idea that Google didn't put any thought into security is ludicrous, if DED actually knew anything about computer software and knew how the Android APK exploit worked, he'd see it isn't a flaw in the architecture, but a flaw in the implementation, the signature check code.  So regardless of whether Android had a central Certificate Authority model, or a self-signed model, the exploit would still be there.

 

There have been flaws in widely used crypto/SSL libraries used by hundreds and thousands of applications, like OpenSSL and GnuTLS. This happens all the time, and many European blackhat hackers have made a business out of selling such exploits to nation states and other blackhats. Android's exploit was found in part because the source code is available.

 

I love how DED also tries to insinuate that Apple invented the concept of a "web app", a concept which goes all the way back to Active Desktop on Windows and Netscape Desktop. DED has a command of the historical facts already - a command of cherry picking information which conveniently leaves out the whole story, in order to fit a childish hero-worshipping narrative about Apple.

 

There was nothing technologically innovative about the App Store, the concept of downloadable and installable apps, digitally signed apps, sandboxed apps, apps for money, and on and on, all predated iOS by a decade. Paid J2ME apps on feature phones hit 1 billion installs before 2007.  Ryoichi Mori patented SuperDistribution in 1983 which used DRM signing for encrypted app distribution. 

 

 Alot of the work, both academic and proof of implementation, was done by companies like Sun Microsystems or General Magic way before, ironically, General Magic was started by ex-Apple employees and Apple ended up suing them and shipping the Newton. The basic architecture since then, has been the same. Sandbox plus signatures for verification.

 

But this is the problem with zealots -- taking what is a common occurrence in the software industry, people finding exploits because of bugs, and turn it into a one side story complete with lots of bullshit assumptions.

 

Anyway, here you go: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/11/safari-charlie-discovers-security-flaw-in-ios-gets-booted-from-dev-program/

 

Proof of lazy Apple not caring about build quality and shipping unfinished, buggy code? 

 

DED is possibly the worst Apple beat writer I've ever seen.

post #56 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

I don't think he interviewed Steve. He asked a question at the shareholder meeting mentioned later in the article. If that was it, that's no interview for the record.

That's how I read it too.

Perhaps there is some hyperbole, but clearly his larger points make a great deal of sense. Also, as someone else mentioned, his sense of Apple history is superb.

That said, he could tone it down a notch, and it would all be more effective.
post #57 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

What will DED say when hackers do find an exploitable flaw in iOS?

Have they?

Perhaps you should wait until they do, instead of speculating.
post #58 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Because Apple runs the only App Store for iOS, it can (and does) stop such activity. One recent issue was resolved by Apple the day after it was reported.

 

No, it wasn't. Do you even read what you quote DED?

 

It took MONTHS of complaining to Apple before ANYTHING was done. App store reviewers allowed hacked apps into the store in spite of the actual app not matching the provided screenshots, something the developer believes should have been a pretty obvious red flag to Apple's app approval person.

 

To be clear, I'm not complaining about Apple, iOS, apps or the App Store, but calling out DED's bullshlt "evangelism." It is not true that the incident to which he refers was resolved in one day.

post #59 of 180

Great article Dan, I really enjoyed reading it.

post #60 of 180
EDIT: Redundant reply removed.

Edited by v5v - 7/14/13 at 3:30pm
post #61 of 180

Did you bother to even read my post? The last link is in fact, an exploit in the iOS Sandbox, and developer Charlie Miller was able to get the app successfully into Apple's walled garden where other people downloaded it. The app allowed third party untrusted code to be downloaded and run in an executable code page as a proof of concept exploit.

 

For this, Charlie was kicked out of the Apple dev program. 

 

This happened before the Android APK exploit, so technically, iOS was cracked first (in 2011)

 

As Steve Jobs would say "BOOM!"

post #62 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

He didn't get an interview. He was among the media that asked questions at a conference.

So he lied/embellished. The Lede says "In May 2007, I interviewed Steve Jobs" which gives the impression that he had a 1:1 Q&A with jobs. I never heard of someone say they "interviewed" someone by standing up at a conference or meeting on a public mic. 

 

Another example of how DED selectively twists and reinterprets facts to suit a narrative.

 

Next we'll learn how he got write Steve Job's Bio because he once asked how old he was while in an elevator.

post #63 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

What will DED say when hackers do find an exploitable flaw in iOS? All major DRM systems on every every platform have been broken so far, even those with many many layers of defense-in-depth. Will he say that Apple took shortcuts? Charlie Miller along found 20 OSX 0-day attacks. Is that the famous Apple build quality? Shipping a desktop OS with 20 security holes?

 

The reality is, all complex software systems have exploitable holes, it is impossible to create a 100% secure system. The idea that Google didn't put any thought into security is ludicrous, if DED actually knew anything about computer software and knew how the Android APK exploit worked, he'd see it isn't a flaw in the architecture, but a flaw in the implementation, the signature check code.  So regardless of whether Android had a central Certificate Authority model, or a self-signed model, the exploit would still be there.

 

There have been flaws in widely used crypto/SSL libraries used by hundreds and thousands of applications, like OpenSSL and GnuTLS. This happens all the time, and many European blackhat hackers have made a business out of selling such exploits to nation states and other blackhats. Android's exploit was found in part because the source code is available.

 

I love how DED also tries to insinuate that Apple invented the concept of a "web app", a concept which goes all the way back to Active Desktop on Windows and Netscape Desktop. DED has a command of the historical facts already - a command of cherry picking information which conveniently leaves out the whole story, in order to fit a childish hero-worshipping narrative about Apple.

 

There was nothing technologically innovative about the App Store, the concept of downloadable and installable apps, digitally signed apps, sandboxed apps, apps for money, and on and on, all predated iOS by a decade. Paid J2ME apps on feature phones hit 1 billion installs before 2007.  Ryoichi Mori patented SuperDistribution in 1983 which used DRM signing for encrypted app distribution. 

 

 Alot of the work, both academic and proof of implementation, was done by companies like Sun Microsystems or General Magic way before, ironically, General Magic was started by ex-Apple employees and Apple ended up suing them and shipping the Newton. The basic architecture since then, has been the same. Sandbox plus signatures for verification.

 

But this is the problem with zealots -- taking what is a common occurrence in the software industry, people finding exploits because of bugs, and turn it into a one side story complete with lots of bullshit assumptions.

 

Anyway, here you go: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/11/safari-charlie-discovers-security-flaw-in-ios-gets-booted-from-dev-program/

 

Proof of lazy Apple not caring about build quality and shipping unfinished, buggy code? 

 

DED is possibly the worst Apple beat writer I've ever seen.

 

What a load of crap. Yes, all software systems can be cracked. That's not the issue. The issue is that Android has far more holes than iOS does. This is verifiable fact. The very existence of ICS and GB (which has poor or no implementations of ASLR) are just one example.

 

Your post is about as stupid as someone claiming that since some iOS devices don't get all iOS 7 features that iOS is also fragmented, and make the wild assumption that Android and iOS both suffer from fragmentation and are therefore, equal.

 

Here's a clue - it's not black & white as trolls like you try to imply.

 

I also noticed a well-known troll coward gave you a like. Just like that other new drive-by account also got likes from a different, but well-known troll. You guys are pathetic.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #64 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

So he lied/embellished. The Lede says "In May 2007, I interviewed Steve Jobs" which gives the impression that he had a 1:1 Q&A with jobs. I never heard of someone say they "interviewed" someone by standing up at a conference or meeting on a public mic. 

 

Another example of how DED selectively twists and reinterprets facts to suit a narrative.

 

Next we'll learn how he got write Steve Job's Bio because he once asked how old he was while in an elevator.

 

You mean like how you selectively talk about certain aspects of security while ignoring others? Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #65 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

And some apps never go to Android at all...

 

Which ones? That's what MacRulez was asking. If what you say is true, you should be able to specify WHICH apps haven't made the transition.

 

It seems safe to assume that there may be some, but are they actually successful apps or just yet another flashlight?

post #66 of 180
Man Daniel you can write. I, one of many I am sure, love the level of depth and truth you gather and present. Awesome.

And I don't see any Android 'hate' here. Truth.

Soldier on Daniel!
post #67 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


That's how I read it too.

 

Yeah, I cringed at that bit also.  Daniel writes excellent stuff but then he buggers it up by making some outrageous claim like he "interviewed" Steve Jobs.  Also, like most of his articles, it's about 50% too long and goes over and over the same points until the reader is exhausted or has already turned the page.  I'm not in the "DED hater" camp many folks on the forum are, in fact I was an avid supporter for a while, but I'm starting to get really tired of this stuff.  

post #68 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Have they?

Perhaps you should wait until they do, instead of speculating.

 

 

Or, I dunno, you could read the rest of his post, including maybe the part with a link to how and where and WHEN it happened.

 

Looking forward to your apology to rjc999.

post #69 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

What will DED say when hackers do find an exploitable flaw in iOS? 

 

I love how DED also tries to insinuate that Apple invented the concept of a "web app", a concept which goes all the way back to Active Desktop on Windows and Netscape Desktop. DED has a command of the historical facts already - a command of cherry picking information which conveniently leaves out the whole story, in order to fit a childish hero-worshipping narrative about Apple.

 

This is just too silly, even for you. There's no "insinuation" in the article that credits Apple for inventing "web apps." 

 

Also, there have been many exploits discovered in iOS. The difference is that 60% of iOS users aren't on a system that's years old and full of old bugs. Apple updates and distributes them. Google releases updates for some new phones. That's just bad support. 

 

Google also rushed into the market with the notion that "open always wins" and has failed. Spent a lot of money, lost a lot of headway in mobile ads. Not clear how the future of Android is going to solve or change any of these issues. You can't upgrade a platform by launching something new that only appears on brand new phones. 

post #70 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
What a load of crap. Yes, all software systems can be cracked. That's not the issue. The issue is that Android has far more holes than iOS does. This is verifiable fact. The very existence of ICS and GB (which has poor or no implementations of ASLR) are just one example.

 

 

You mean like the half-done ASLR implementations Apple introduced into OSX which were incrementally upgraded over time. OSX didn't get full ASLR until Lion, and iOS didn't get ASLR until IOS 4.3. JellyBean has full ASLR. ICS had partial ASLR. Part of the reason why people find exploits in Android is because of AOSP which makes it far easier, the same way WebKit and Chromium flaws are forged in competitions by explicit knowledge in the source and the ability to run analysis tools on the source. iOS is closed source, security through obscurity, but the existence of continued jailbreaks proves that Apple is no different than anyone else in securing their system, they keep fixing exploits, and people keep finding others. Apple in fact, is quite behind other companies in some areas. The vast vast majority of WebKit bugs were found and fixed by Google engineers in old code from Apple when Google introduced ClusterFuzz, a massively scaled out fuzzing system. Most of Miller's attacks on OSX were found by fuzzing, indicating Apple likely lacks large-scale internal automated fuzzing tools.

 

I get it, you're mad because someone showed one of your heroes to be someone who twists facts and shatters your world-view of Apple as some kind of outlier amongst software engineers. It doesn't help that you don't know what you're talking about, you're obviously not a security engineer. 

post #71 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

No, it wasn't. Do you even read what you quote DED?

 

It took MONTHS of complaining to Apple before ANYTHING was done. App store reviewers allowed hacked apps into the store in spite of the actual app not matching the provided screenshots, something the developer believes should have been a pretty obvious red flag to Apple's app approval person.

 

To be clear, I'm not complaining about Apple, iOS, apps or the App Store, but calling out DED's bullshlt "evangelism." It is not true that the incident to which he refers was resolved in one day.

 

Step 1) click the link

Step 2) read the date of the posting: (July 2 if you can't find it yourself)

Step 3) compare the update added the next day July 3

Step 4) do the math

post #72 of 180

I thought the article was entertaining and informative. The entertaining part is DED's bias. It doesn't bother me. Some of his best articles on his website were attacks on other journalists who besmirched his beloved Apple.

 

I was one of those who bought into the story that Jobs didn't want 3rd party Apps on the iPhone. Simply from reading a few articles. Even though I questioned it because it's such a bone-headed move from someone I consider a great visionary, I bought into the myth.

 

Thanks for setting the record straight.

post #73 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In May 2007, I interviewed Steve Jobs on the subject of native apps for the iPhone months before the new phone first went on sale. Six years later, his answers are now haunting Google's rival Android platform because the search giant has failed to heed the advice leaking from the top of Apple's ship.

Link please to the 2007 interview!
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #74 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

This is just too silly, even for you. There's no "insinuation" in the article that credits Apple for inventing "web apps." 

 

Also, there have been many exploits discovered in iOS. The difference is that 60% of iOS users aren't on a system that's years old and full of old bugs. Apple updates and distributes them. Google releases updates for some new phones. That's just bad support. 

 

Google also rushed into the market with the notion that "open always wins" and has failed. Spent a lot of money, lost a lot of headway in mobile ads. Not clear how the future of Android is going to solve or change any of these issues. You can't upgrade a platform by launching something new that only appears on brand new phones. 

 

Apple has one lineage of devices, using PowerVR derived GPUs and an incrementally upgraded ARM lineage.  Android is more like the PC Desktop of the last 20 years or Linux, hundreds, or thousands of combinations of devices. 3-4 different CPUs, including different architectures like Atom. Multiple GPUs like Tegra, Mali, Adreno, PowerVR.  There's also not a single distributor, so like with Linux kernel updates, your Linux based cable box or wifi-box isn't going to get the fix automagically. It's just impractical to have a single point of control in an ecosystem with hundreds of devices and vendors. Microsoft tried it with Windows and the result was BSODs everywhere.

 

Google didn't "rush" into the market, it was planned for it to be like this. Decentralized systems simply permit this kind of abuse. DED talks about people stealing content and repackaging it, but this is the way the Web works. I could completely copy all content from AppleInsider, upload it to a new domain "FooInsider" and no one can prevent me from publishing links to it everywhere. 

 

If Apple users like a walled garden fine, but the situation of Android was known ahead of time, Vic Gundotra practically announced it at I/O 2009. I freely acknowledge this is the kinds of fragmentation that happen in an open system, but I myself prefer open systems. I like being able to see sort, I like hacking my device, and I like being able to install software I want. In short, I expect that if I paid $300 for a computing device, I *OWN IT*, it's *MINE* and I should be able to put whatever I want on it.

 

Apple benefits from controlling the entire stack, there is no denying it. I say let the end users decide. Some people will want a more controlled experienced, others may prefer more diversity.  The world is big enough for both platforms to co-exist.

 

Enough of the constant nuclear war bullshit.

post #75 of 180
rogifan, When Apple started working on iPhone they did not hire anyone one from outside, that did not mean we were not getting a phone. Project iWatch is not starting soon, it is ending soon. I reckon it will be in market later this year.
post #76 of 180
The latest version of Apple iOS offers industry leading security including: Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR), Application Sandboxing, Code Signing, File System Encryption, Mobile Device Management (including Remote Wipe), Protected APIs and Secure Boot Chain.


Apple iOS has several distinct and important advantages which make all the difference in the world:
  • Software Updates are managed exclusively by Apple allowing security updates to be developed and deployed rapidly
  • No Multiple Abstraction Layers, i.e. Dalvik Virtual Machine on Linux kernel with every abstraction layer providing potential vulnerabilities
  • Centralized app Privacy and Security Management
  • Background Processes are managed by an strict API guidelines and managed through admission to the App Store to prevent errant applications
  • Fewer hardware ports offer fewer potential vulnerabilities (especially SD cards)
  • Integrated SSL, TLS and VPN support (per app in iOS 7) including automatic encryption for default apps such as Calendar, Mail and Safari
  • Integrated Parental Controls
  • Integrated device tracking and device reset restrictions



The lack of consistently available software updates immediately upon release truly cripples Apple's competitors. The other major security flaws could almost be forgiven if Google hadn't crippled their product by not offering timely software updates and not managing app submissions to Google Play.
post #77 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Step 1) click the link

Step 2) read the date of the posting: (July 2 if you can't find it yourself)

Step 3) compare the update added the next day July 3

Step 4) do the math

Step 5) apologize for being a dick who doesn't know what you're talking about

 

 

READ THE DAMN POSTING!

 

His first complaint to Apple was in MAY. Issue addressed in JULY. Figure out how that's MORE THAN ONE DAY then tell me who's a dick who doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeesh.

 

Are you having a bad day? Everything you've posted on this thread has been insults and shots at others. Maybe you should turn off the computer and go outside.

post #78 of 180

The basis of this article is correct:  Jobs was not categorically opposed to native apps.  He just wanted absolute control over them, and so sometimes made them out to be a big threat.  As he put it in an interview right after showing off the iPhone:

 

Quote:

We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.”

 

The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.

 

These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” he said. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.

 

NY Times, Jan 11, 2007

 

In another interview, he even mentioned the possibility of a bad app "bringing down all the West Coast towers".  (In an ironic twist, it was Apple-written software that actually "took down towers".   Recall their 3G code problem... it had a CDMA power ramp bug that would cause cells to overload and drop off users!  So much for a controlled environment preventing bugs.)

 

Of course, Windows Mobile, Symbian, Blackberry, Palm OS etc all had had apps for years without causing such a problem.  (Blackberry apps required a signature that only registered developers had, btw.   That was not a new idea.)

 

--

 

Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs, written using interviews with him, also talked about Steve Jobs' resistance to third party apps at first.  According to the book, both Apple Board Director Art Levinson and marketing chief Phil Schiller kept after Jobs to allow apps, but Jobs didn't want to hear about it at first and shut down any discussions.

 

However, Jobs was eventually won over.  (I suspect that the lukewarm reception to his declaration that web apps were "sweet" had a lot to do with that.)  And no, WebOS apps are not the same thing at all.

 

Re: the SDK not starting in Oct 2007.  Well, yeah.  The iPhone programmers themselves needed an SDK to work on the device, so obviously one had been in use for a while. 

 

Re: app prices.  It's true that the Apple App Store caused mobile software to dramatically drop in price.  Great for customers, but very few developers manage to make a living off 70 cent sale revenues.

 

Re: OS bugs. Apparently few remember that the very FIRST iPhone software update came about because a researcher threatened to release code that would let anyone take over an iPhone, if Apple didn't put out a fix by a certain date.  Apple complied.

post #79 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I remember now after reading this excellent weekend post by DED, but I had totally forgotten about the delay in allowing native apps by 3rd party developers for iOS. How times flies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

Great article - very informative. Didn't know half that stuff, really appreciate the whole story. And from someone who isn't simply trying to hop on the bandwagon by recycling other news stories to create click bait. You've obviously written this article out of some deeper thought and research than many mainstream newspapers.

Be very careful here... I followed DED's Roughly Drafted site for years -- as he seemed to believe many of the same things about Apple that I do.

However, after a while I had this gnawing feeling that something was wrong. DED kept regurgitating all the same old refrains against Apple's rivals/competition, ad nauseam...

Then I noticed that DED [usually] conveniently linked to prior articles/opinions written by DED himself * -- and elided or ignored contrary opinions.

Later, when questioned on his opinions or conclusions, DED would often attack/ridicule the questioner or demean the question -- rather than discuss it without bias. **

I would define what DED does as "Editorialising" -- it hardly fits the definition of "Journalism",


Fool me once...


* Most of the links in this article are to other articles written by DED

** On AI, DED uses a pseudonym. "Corrections" to challange anyone who disagrees and to further bolster his agenda/opinions.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #80 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

[...] I say let the end users decide. Some people will want a more controlled experienced, others may prefer more diversity.  The world is big enough for both platforms to co-exist.

 

I fall on the side of convenience. Some things I want control over, others it's just easier to let someone else take care of it. Since this device isn't a "pet interest" I prefer to have a responsible curator manage security for me.

 

That doesn't mean I blindly accept it as the ONLY Way, Truth and Light, or that I don't want people like Charlie testing the security, or that I don't still want some features the other guys have that I don't, or that I need to disparage others for having different preferences.

 

It seems to some people that saying either "Apple is not perfect" or "I wish Apple would offer this feature/device/function" is the equivalent of saying "I mock your value system and deride you personally."

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Editorial: Google's Android haunted by Steve Jobs' warnings on app signing security
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Editorial: Google's Android haunted by Steve Jobs' warnings on app signing security