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Woman dies using a charging iPhone 5, Apple vows to aid in investigation - Page 2

post #41 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

The South China Morning Post is reporting that Apple is investigating reports that a Chinese flight attendant was fatally electrocuted when getting out of the bath to answer a call on her iPhone 5 while it was plugged into the charger.

Just grabbed it from 9to5mac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'm serious. 9to5 Mac is reporting it too.
This is just another bogus/misleading/propagandist report by 9to5 Mac then, the South Morning China Post is absolutely NOT mentioning any bath or bathroom in their article...

"Apple to investigate reported iPhone 5 shock death"
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1282777/apple-investigate-reported-iphone-5-shock-death
post #42 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls View Post

I  can understand where you are comming from,  it not your fault,  you were just born stupid.


???????????

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post #43 of 107
Ms. Ma's iPhone 5, according to her family, was purchased in December and was still under warranty. The family told @Stewardess network that she had left a bath to answer a call.


http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/07/15/apple-iphone-electrocuted-charging/
post #44 of 107
Apple should definitely investigate instead of rely on either propaganda from the Chinese government or rumors from the Internet.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #45 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

 

Yes, Tenfingers—this absolutely reeks of bullshit. But this sort of crap is not exclusive to China.

 

AI forum followers: review the Wikipedia summary quoted below—a now widely known and infamous case of flagrant media abuse—and ask yourself: why 60 Minutes was not forever discredited and sued out of existence after is it was proven they engineered a story which nearly destroyed Audi? The answer is so simple it may astound: people lie all the time—they love it.

 


As the fortunes of the big 3 US automakers fell around 2008, I watched the orchestrated bullshit campaign to try and destroy Toyota/Lexus. It didn't, of course. It only slowed Toyota, a company that is now stronger because of this planned sabotage.

 

It'll be interesting to see if there is a money grab in this case or if the Chinese gov will use this incident to further put the thumb screws to Apple.

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post #46 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


The water was possibly conducting directly from the live pin in the wall then along the wet cable to her, bypassing the charger completely.


Could be a  reasonable explanation for this accident.

post #47 of 107

Don't be misled by her using the phone.  She has been plugging and unplugging the charger for many months.  If there is a leak she will experience it long time before.  Thus I believe there must be some other circumstances that led this electrocution if the news is really facts.  

post #48 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post


Could be a  reasonable explanation for this accident.
Doubtless is. But I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer. The chain of evidence will have been hopelessly compromised in a society as closed as China's. They may not even recognize chain of custody as a legal concept.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #49 of 107
100% BS, someone looking for a quick pay day...
post #50 of 107
This sounds like total BS just like most (all?) of the exploding cell phone stories.
post #51 of 107
Nope, does not make sense. I was quite expecting to read that it had come from an explosion caused by using an extended external battery case. That would make 'more of a case', but a 3rd party one obviously.
post #52 of 107

On the surface this is pretty much impossible--- USB operates at 5 volts, and you can't kill someone with 5 volts.  Not enough to overcome skin resistance.

 

Therefore, if this happened, it was most likely due to a cheap chinese charger or some other hack that was done that was profoundly unsafe.

 

One thing is pretty much for sure-- whatever killed this woman was not made by Apple!

post #53 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi23 View Post


This is just another bogus/misleading/propagandist report by 9to5 Mac then, the South Morning China Post is absolutely NOT mentioning any bath or bathroom in their article...

"Apple to investigate reported iPhone 5 shock death"
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1282777/apple-investigate-reported-iphone-5-shock-death

Thanks, then my initial comment on this thread stands.

... this from the report you link to is all that need be said then:


"But we do not know the circumstances of the incident and it is not suitable to jump to any conclusions at this stage," he said.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #54 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi23 View Post


This is just another bogus/misleading/propagandist report by 9to5 Mac then, the South Morning China Post is absolutely NOT mentioning any bath or bathroom in their article...

"Apple to investigate reported iPhone 5 shock death"
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1282777/apple-investigate-reported-iphone-5-shock-death

Oh yeah? Well take a look at my link then, from fortune/cnn. They mention the woman getting out of a bath.
post #55 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The Chinese state has already been caught lying about Apple .....

So has the US state.

 

But I suppose the difference might be -- not sure -- that a US judge agreed with the state....

post #56 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

So has the US state.

But I suppose the difference might be -- not sure -- that a US judge agreed with the state....

Are you thinking about the DOJ case? If yes, then i agree.
post #57 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Are you thinking about the DOJ case?

Yes.

 

The notion of a 'lying state' is a redundancy...... China or otherwise. They all do it 'for the people.'

post #58 of 107

Is that her real name? /s

post #59 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessi View Post

On the surface this is pretty much impossible--- USB operates at 5 volts, and you can't kill someone with 5 volts.  Not enough to overcome skin resistance.

 

Therefore, if this happened, it was most likely due to a cheap chinese charger or some other hack that was done that was profoundly unsafe.

 

One thing is pretty much for sure-- whatever killed this woman was not made by Apple!

Ummm.  It doesn't matter what the voltage is.  It's the current (Amperage) that usually causes fatalities.  A common personal GGCI is rated to trip at 10ma because 20ma is enough to cause fibrillation which can result in death.  It has nothing to do with the part being a "cheap knockoff" if the conditions were right.

 

The human body can actually withstand Kilovolts of electricity as long as the amperage and conditions are optimal.

 

My favorite job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_NEAEGeFIw

post #60 of 107
Where is the evidence to back this sh** up.
Sounds like some bs to me. It reminds me of the stories that came out a few years ago about people not being able to read from the iPad's screen. Some said that reading from the iPad's screen was damaging to their eyes. Um, but reading from natural sun light with all that uv sh** wouldn't? LOL!
Again,pseudo pycho babble was used to try and discredit Apple's stuff.
post #61 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

 

Yes, Tenfingers—this absolutely reeks of bullshit. But this sort of crap is not exclusive to China.

 

AI forum followers: review the Wikipedia summary quoted below—a now widely known and infamous case of flagrant media abuse—and ask yourself: why 60 Minutes was not forever discredited and sued out of existence after is it was proven they engineered a story which nearly destroyed Audi? The answer is so simple it may astound: people lie all the time—they love it.

 

 

The reason 60 Minutes didn't get 'sued out of existence' is because they didn't do what you and Wikipedia claim they did. They did not engineer a sudden acceleration incident. All they did was set an Audi to shift into drive by remote control. That is ALL.  They admittedly did something silly and did not prove anything in doing so, but they also did not "rig" an incident. And that is why Audi had nothing to sue them about. They did something bizarre and irrelevant, not something illegal or misleading. Source: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/the-best-of-ttac-the-audi-5000-intended-unintended-acceleration-debacle/

post #62 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreiD View Post

Was the charger original ?

 

There is a lot of questions regarding this incident indeed. On top of that one is what is the power surge protection of the switchbox. We have very strict norms in North America that may not apply in China. Also, in north america, we only used 220 volts when its really needed, not everywhere in the house.

post #63 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Ummm.  It doesn't matter what the voltage is.  It's the current (Amperage) that usually causes fatalities.  A common personal GGCI is rated to trip at 10ma because 20ma is enough to cause fibrillation which can result in death.  It has nothing to do with the part being a "cheap knockoff" if the conditions were right.

 

The human body can actually withstand Kilovolts of electricity as long as the amperage and conditions are optimal.

 

My favorite job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_NEAEGeFIw

Ummm…this post shows a complete lack of understanding concerning the relationship between voltage/amperage/electrical resistance etc—a lack of understanding that nearly every juror would share. For example: what would happen to a person who touched the positive terminal of a 12v / 850amp car battery to his left hand and touched the negative terminal to his right hand while standing in salt-water up to his knees? Answer: absolutely nothing. Do the same thing with 120v direct current and you’re dead.

 

Voltage has absolutely everything to do with overcoming electrical resistance.

post #64 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreiD View Post

Was the charger original ?

 

There is a lot of questions regarding this incident indeed. On top of that one is what is the power surge protection of the switchbox. We have very strict norms in North America that may not apply in China. Also, in north america, we only used 220 volts when its really needed, not everywhere in the house.

 

It really doesn't matter whether it was 110 V or 220 V. 110 V is high enough to drive lethal currents. And what is going to have surge protection (which suppresses voltage, not power) at the 20 mA level? A GFCI will give you ground fault protection at that current, but that is a separate issue.

 

Edit: I meant mA, not mV.


Edited by muppetry - 7/15/13 at 9:04am
post #65 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

But when she grabs the phone and not the charger all she can touch are ~5V (USB voltage).

That shouldn't even be enough for a tingle on the skin (even when dripping wet).

On the other hand if the charger was broken and supplied 110V AC (220V AC?) the phone should have been fried already?

Besides the tragedy for the family I have got some skepticism on the report.
 

 

I totally agree.   All such devices are low voltage devices that draw very little current.    The only way you're getting electrocuted is if the mains is somehow shorted to a metal part of the phone, but if that's the case, as you say, the phone should have been fried.

 

Think about it:   you can put your fingers across the battery terminals and not feel anything. In fact, you can put your fingers across the connectors charging the battery and not feel anything, although they recently changed regulations in Japan so that on camera battery chargers (and I assume other devices), users can no longer easily have access to those terminals.   Nikon recently had to change their charger design to accommodate this.   

 

Assuming the story is true at all, I'm wondering if she didn't get electrocuted while plugging the charger into the wall, especially if there's any truth to some posters'  claims that she was wet at the time.   It's easy to get a shock if you're plugging something into an outlet that you can't see and have a finger resting against a prong while your'e plugging it in.  

 

Although, if one is not wet and the contact is momentary, while getting a 110v shock is uncomfortable, you can easily survive it.   I've been shocked by an outlet a number of times over the years.   Not so sure about 220v, which is used in China, although from a device standpoint, a higher voltage device will draw a smaller current, since the overall power consumption is the same and P=EI  (voltage * current).  

 

I must confess though that I feel more comfortable with devices that have have 3-prong plugs, which have an isolated ground on circuits (at least in the U.S.) that meet current building codes.  

post #66 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

It really doesn't matter whether it was 110 V or 220 V. 110 V is high enough to drive lethal currents. And what is going to have surge protection (which suppresses voltage, not power) at the 20 mV level? A GFCI will give you ground fault protection at that current, but that is a separate issue.

 

Well I didnt know the women ran out of bath to the charging iphone when I post this. But otherwise, switchbox protection could have been relevant in a situation where the external powergrid spiked. I also want to point out that in some countries people bybass fuses or swtichbox and just directly wired.   

post #67 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

 

The reason 60 Minutes didn't get 'sued out of existence' is because they didn't do what you and Wikipedia claim they did. They did not engineer a sudden acceleration incident. All they did was set an Audi to shift into drive by remote control. That is ALL.  They admittedly did something silly and did not prove anything in doing so, but they also did not "rig" an incident. And that is why Audi had nothing to sue them about. They did something bizarre and irrelevant, not something illegal or misleading. Source: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/the-best-of-ttac-the-audi-5000-intended-unintended-acceleration-debacle/

Actually, 60 Minutes did exactly what I and Wikipedia “claim” they did: they rigged an Audi to shift itself into drive by remote control. They then conveniently left that information out of their “report” while representing a fabricated film as proof that Audi’s could and did accelerate on their own. I have viewed their report recently: it is deceptive, deliberately misleading, dishonest journalism.

 

Thanks for the link though!—I’m linking it again since it is even more damning of the media system of orchestrated abuse and more supportive of my point than the Wikipedia link I originally quoted!

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/the-best-of-ttac-the-audi-5000-intended-unintended-acceleration-debacle/

post #68 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Ummm.  It doesn't matter what the voltage is.  It's the current (Amperage) that usually causes fatalities.  A common personal GGCI is rated to trip at 10ma because 20ma is enough to cause fibrillation which can result in death.  It has nothing to do with the part being a "cheap knockoff" if the conditions were right.

 

The human body can actually withstand Kilovolts of electricity as long as the amperage and conditions are optimal.

 

My favorite job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_NEAEGeFIw

Ummm…this post shows a complete lack of understanding concerning the relationship between voltage/amperage/electrical resistance etc—a lack of understanding that nearly every juror would share. For example: what would happen to a person who touched the positive terminal of a 12v / 850amp car battery to his left hand and touched the negative terminal to his right hand while standing in salt-water up to his knees? Answer: absolutely nothing. Do the same thing with 120v direct current and you’re dead.

 

Voltage has absolutely everything to do with overcoming electrical resistance.

 

But that is more because the voltage source is not grounded in that example than because the voltage is not high enough.  While 12 V from a lead acid battery is more likely to injure by arc flash than by current through the body, in a wet environment the hand-to-hand resistance can drop as low as 1 kΩ, which would lead to around 12 mA, which would certainly be noticeable.

post #69 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

 

I totally agree.   All such devices are low voltage devices that draw very little current.    The only way you're getting electrocuted is if the mains is somehow shorted to a metal part of the phone, but if that's the case, as you say, the phone should have been fried.

 

Think about it:   you can put your fingers across the battery terminals and not feel anything. In fact, you can put your fingers across the connectors charging the battery and not feel anything, although they recently changed regulations in Japan so that on camera battery chargers (and I assume other devices), users can no longer easily have access to those terminals.   Nikon recently had to change their charger design to accommodate this.   

 

Assuming the story is true at all, I'm wondering if she didn't get electrocuted while plugging the charger into the wall, especially if there's any truth to some posters'  claims that she was wet at the time.   It's easy to get a shock if you're plugging something into an outlet that you can't see and have a finger resting against a prong while your'e plugging it in.  

 

Although, if one is not wet and the contact is momentary, while getting a 110v shock is uncomfortable, you can easily survive it.   I've been shocked by an outlet a number of times over the years.   Not so sure about 220v, which is used in China, although from a device standpoint, a higher voltage device will draw a smaller current, since the overall power consumption is the same and P=EI  (voltage * current).  

 

I must confess though that I feel more comfortable with devices that have have 3-prong plugs, which have an isolated ground on circuits (at least in the U.S.) that meet current building codes.  

 

she could have step with her wet feets on a extension cord where the charger was plug in.  Who knows what happens. The problem may be so many things.

post #70 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

It really doesn't matter whether it was 110 V or 220 V. 110 V is high enough to drive lethal currents. And what is going to have surge protection (which suppresses voltage, not power) at the 20 mV level? A GFCI will give you ground fault protection at that current, but that is a separate issue.

 

Well I didnt know the women ran out of bath to the charging iphone when I post this. But otherwise, switchbox protection could have been relevant in a situation where the external powergrid spiked. I also want to point out that in some countries people bybass fuses or swtichbox and just directly wired.   

 

OK. But voltage surge protection is not a requirement anywhere that I know of, and certainly not common in residential installations. And installation circuit breakers or fuses are of no help protecting against ungrounded live fault conditions.

post #71 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

Ummm…this post shows a complete lack of understanding concerning the relationship between voltage/amperage/electrical resistance etc—a lack of understanding that nearly every juror would share. For example: what would happen to a person who touched the positive terminal of a 12v / 850amp car battery to his left hand and touched the negative terminal to his right hand while standing in salt-water up to his knees? Answer: absolutely nothing. Do the same thing with 120v direct current and you’re dead.

 

Voltage has absolutely everything to do with overcoming electrical resistance.

Whoa Mr. Felix man!  Thanks for the personal attack!

 

I just made a quick valid point.  If you want I'll supply all of the math.  I did say if conditions were right didn't I?

 

In your situation you don't even need to be standing in a bucket of water.  The human body (while dry only) has a resistance of about 1 million ohms.  That's actually the reason you can grab those two terminals without being shocked.  Try wetting both your hands and then grabbing the terminals...

 

Voltage outright will not kill you.  You need the current to inflict damage to your body through burns or even just enough to stop your heart.  Yes you do need enough voltage to overcome the electrical resistance of the body but depending on the conditions it can actually be very low.

 

Thanks again DB!

post #72 of 107
You can't die from a 5 volt shock. The iPhone would have burned up if any more voltage like coming from the wall was put through the phone. The phone would not have rang because the phone would have already burned up with an overload. Something else caused her death while she happened to be holding an iPhone is my guess. Chinese media of course would love to blame an Apple product for her death so I have a feeling there is more to this story than what the Chinese are telling us.
post #73 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

 

Yes, Tenfingers—this absolutely reeks of bullshit. But this sort of crap is not exclusive to China.

 

AI forum followers: review the Wikipedia summary quoted below—a now widely known and infamous case of flagrant media abuse—and ask yourself: why 60 Minutes was not forever discredited and sued out of existence after it was proven they engineered a story which nearly destroyed Audi? The answer is so simple it may astound: people lie all the time—they love it.

 

And who can forget the model rocket engines used by Dateline to ignite the Chevy C/K series of trucks...

Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #74 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

 

Yes, Tenfingers—this absolutely reeks of bullshit. But this sort of crap is not exclusive to China.

 

AI forum followers: review the Wikipedia summary quoted below—a now widely known and infamous case of flagrant media abuse—and ask yourself: why 60 Minutes was not forever discredited and sued out of existence after it was proven they engineered a story which nearly destroyed Audi? The answer is so simple it may astound: people lie all the time—they love it.

 


The media has a fundamental problem that it does not realize.  Journalism requires a reporter to report nothing but facts.  But the fact is to report nothing but facts sometimes require a very good knowledge of the case.  But most trained journalists just have superficial knowledge of various disciplines.  Thus they are pretty easy to become victims of some people who have some agenda.  They will try to feed the reporter with distorted, exaggerated, or worse false facts.  The reporter may not be able to discern it.  But over all I think western journalists score a little better in this matter.  Although I would not give them a A.

post #75 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

In your situation you don't even need to be standing in a bucket of water.  The human body (while dry only) has a resistance of about 1 million ohms.  That's actually the reason you can grab those two terminals without being shocked.  Try wetting both your hands and then grabbing the terminals...

 

I =V/R.

 

By wetting both hands you've reduced resistance. Voltage remains constant so current increases.

 

Your example indicates that higher current IS the relevant factor, not power.

post #76 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


(Note this is a side discussion regarding MBP not iPhone charger) If you are in the USA (I cannot speak to other countries' designs) , the genuine Apple one has three metal prongs to plug into the wall outlet. If you disconnect the other end from the charger you will see there is also a metal latch knob on the charger which slides into a track on the cable end. The inside of the cable's latch tracks have metal strips. On the cheap knock off I saw the latch pin was plastic not metal. I am unclear what the second cable you refer to is?

 

 

 

You can attach either the cable-with-plug you described or a plug with no cable. The latter has only two blades, no ground pin.

post #77 of 107
Condolence to the family...
Fortunately nothing like this happened to iphone4 owners.
post #78 of 107
A residual-current breaker would have prevented this. Or Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI), as I belive are called in US/Canada.
Using any device o appliance connected to mains without any of those is like driving a car with no brakes: a disaster waiting to happen
Sorry for the poor girl.
post #79 of 107

I heard she was getting out of the bath to answer a phone call from Santa Claus and the reason she was in the bath was because she was getting ready to go out on a date with the sasquatch. The tooth fairy told me and now it's here in black and white so it must all be true, certainly as true as the original story of a girl dying.

 

C'mon China, your propaganda is very poorly executed.

post #80 of 107
Mind you, Apple's recent iPhone commercial shows a person reaching out from their shower to answer their iPhone 1frown.gif
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