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Microsoft slashes Surface RT prices by $150 as it flounders against Apple's iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Oh, hate to be the grammar police, but one of my pet peeves is the incorrect substitution of "flounders" for "founders." It's very common and has almost taken over. Something like "butt" naked taking over for "buck" naked.

Unfortunately, dictionaries are accepting "flounder" as a substitute for "founder." I hate it too, but there you are.
post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

It amazes me that Microsoft truly thought they could go head to head with Apple's iPad, especially when everybody else who has tried has failed miserably. Is it an ego, complete ignorance, or simply being a glutton for punishment?

So you'd just rather have it that Apple have a monopoly on tablets?
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post #43 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post

You mean people across the nation don't really want a tablet that inspires them to have breakdance and dubstep meetings in their conference rooms??! Shocking.

I thought it was the kickstand people couldn't do without. Or maybe it's all that drive space you get.

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post #44 of 127

MS forgot to have the mock funeral for the iPad so that says a lot about how they thought it was going to go.  even they didn't believe in it.

post #45 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I take your point. but I don't think it is just a case of coming too late. :)

 

Apple has come "late" to a few markets. But unlike MS, Apple puts in the hard work (HW and SW) to bring a "game changer" to market.

 

MS continues to just bring crap products to market. Windows OS is a crap product and so is Office for that matter.

I wanted to say "Too little, too late", or "they reply late and poorly", but I was trying not to kick them when they're down.

post #46 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

I wanted to say "Too little, too late", or "they reply late and poorly", but I was trying not to kick them when they're down.

Very Zen of you! :)

post #47 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


well, let's be fair. the abiity to have two windows open at a time *is* a useful feature. i'd love it. i'm an apple fan and stockholder, have a houseload of apple products, and will never buy a surface (or any microsoft product) but i could very much use the feature of having two windows open at once. to wit, safari for searching for stuff and iSSH for being connected to a machine, and not having to switch back and forth. that would be useful to me.

your attempt at sarcasm is misplaced and, to use your phrase, it is "stoopid."

There are some apps that you might want to look into. How about "Side by Side"?

 

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/side-by-side-dropbox-support/id386528623?mt=8

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post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So you'd just rather have it that Apple have a monopoly on tablets?

If they earned it, yeah. Microsoft tried something different. People hate it. Android tried stealing. People hate it, too.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

It amazes me that Microsoft truly thought they could go head to head with Apple's iPad, especially when everybody else who has tried has failed miserably. Is it an ego, complete ignorance, or simply being a glutton for punishment?

Having just read Uncle Fester's memo to the MS troops (I'm a glutton for punishment), I can confidently say, it was mostly ego on Fester's part to think people want to suffer under Windows when there is an alternate. In fact he's all the more convinced the world wants windows. He doesn't get it that enterprise uses Windows because IT wants windows, and IT wants Windows because it gives the best job security (e.g. lots of busy work) for IT managers. 

 

With the advent of BYOD and the absence of MS Office on phones and tablets for the last five years, people have learned that they really can get by without MS Office, and in fact don't care all the much for Windows once they are unshackled from their desk. A door opened for Apple devices and the oppressed and captive Windows audience has tasted freedom from Windows and you can't stuff that back into a can.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

But...but...it can have two windows open at once to do real multitasking! That stoopid iPad is so worthless since it can't do that. Apparently most consumers are just sheeple that can't realize the obvious superiority of Microsoft's tablet!

 

I had to laugh that the multitasking Microsoft demonstrated was watching a movie while designing a PowerPoint... hello! Has anyone here been able to watch a movie while focusing on designing a PowerPoint.? That's like teaching a classroom of 6-year-olds while taking 911 calls.

 

Now, had Microsoft shown how the Surface can allow you to listen to background music while designing a PowerPoint it would have meant far more sense, but then Apple's iDevices can do that already... 

 

How about designing a PowerPoint and taking phone calls (non-skype)...? Oops, MS Surfaces do not come with built-in phone as an option. The commercial where the scout was skyping while doing something else, would have required an open wifi connection that would reach far enough to connect out on the playing field... Not likely to happen.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Oh, hate to be the grammar police, but one of my pet peeves is the incorrect substitution of "flounders" for "founders." It's very common and has almost taken over. Something like "butt" naked taking over for "buck" naked.

Hmm.... English is not my first language, but is that really grammar you're discussing?

 

(If not, add posts like yours to my list of pet peeves.)

post #51 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post


Unfortunately, dictionaries are accepting "flounder" as a substitute for "founder." I hate it too, but there you are.

That's because dictionaries do not dictate the English language. The users of the language do. This has always been the case for English.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I had to laugh that the multitasking Microsoft demonstrated was watching a movie while designing a PowerPoint... hello! Has anyone here been able to watch a movie while focusing on designing a PowerPoint.? That's like teaching a classroom of 6-year-olds while taking 911 calls.

 

Now, had Microsoft shown how the Surface can allow you to listen to background music while designing a PowerPoint it would have meant far more sense, but then Apple's iDevices can do that already... 

 

How about designing a PowerPoint and taking phone calls (non-skype)...? Oops, MS Surfaces do not come with built-in phone as an option. The commercial where the scout was skyping while doing something else, would have required an open wifi connection that would reach far enough to connect out on the playing field... Not likely to happen.

And that's my biggest problem with their commercials. They don't show anyone actually doing anything useful with a Surface. It's always really stupid things.

post #52 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


So you'd just rather have it that Apple have a monopoly on tablets?

 

The very thought makes me feel all warm and fuzzy... say it again and again...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mactoid View Post


But...it magically solves crimes for the Hawaii 5-0 team!  lol.gif

 

They must have found a unlocked wifi, because the surface can't phone home on its own nor does it have its own database. In fact the RT can't hardly run MS Office or a subset thereof.

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post #54 of 127
"Microsoft slashes Surface RT prices by $150 as it flounders against Apple's iPad"

I think this is an insult to flounders.
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post #55 of 127

the RT was always DOA. they'll drop it another $100 to $249 for the Xmas sales. and then early next year finally to $149 to dump all the inventory.

 

and MS has to be crazy to bring out a RT2, whatever the size. there simply is no demand at all for this one-off product. it can't run W8 applications, and it can't run Windows Phone apps either. maybe they can make it into a 'second screen' device for the XBox next year @ $99 ... and sell a few thousand.

post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


So you'd just rather have it that Apple have a monopoly on tablets?

Depends. Did that get that monopoly buy making a better product that the vast majority of consumers want to buy over the competition or did they get that monopoly through underhanded tactics? If it's the former, sure. The latter, obviously not. Microsoft or any other company are not owed marketshare simply by existing.

post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So you'd just rather have it that Apple have a monopoly on tablets?

Hell yes! Apple don't need competition to improve their products, they do it anyway!
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post #58 of 127
I had one of these at work for a while. The hardware was solid but I never understood the target market. Anyone who wants a Windows tablet surely wants it for compatibility with existing Windows software. The Surface RT doesn't offer that.

A big price cut isn't going to solve any of the core problems with the device.
post #59 of 127
Microsoft just made a really bad interface, there are a lot of apps on the iPad whereas there aren't that many on the Surface RT, and no one seems to be that interested in writing Surface RT apps. Chock this up to a massive failure, dump the remaining inventory and move along.
post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


well, let's be fair. the abiity to have two windows open at a time *is* a useful feature. i'd love it. i'm an apple fan and stockholder, have a houseload of apple products, and will never buy a surface (or any microsoft product) but i could very much use the feature of having two windows open at once. to wit, safari for searching for stuff and iSSH for being connected to a machine, and not having to switch back and forth. that would be useful to me.

your attempt at sarcasm is misplaced and, to use your phrase, it is "stoopid."

Submit your suggestions for new features to Apple Feedback directly.  The more people that submit the same request and it's something that is doable and a good idea, they'll get around to doing it.

 

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

 

So far with iOS 7, they adding about 75% to 80% of the ideas I've suggested, so they take into consideration what suggestions people have.  It's the whole concept behind this feedback site.  It gets the information routed to the right group of people.

post #61 of 127

I've seen this show before with Microsoft's PowerPC version of Windows NT 3.51. I did NT testing and development on a 601 based box... and then it just went away. All the hype and promise with no follow through left developers with nothing but wasted effort.

 

Microsoft's partners know RT is a dead end. Probably even Microsoft knows RT is a dead end. $349 for a dead end tablet is not a deal.

post #62 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


well, let's be fair. the abiity to have two windows open at a time *is* a useful feature. i'd love it. i'm an apple fan and stockholder, have a houseload of apple products, and will never buy a surface (or any microsoft product) but i could very much use the feature of having two windows open at once. to wit, safari for searching for stuff and iSSH for being connected to a machine, and not having to switch back and forth. that would be useful to me.

 

Now that Apple is certain they have a very stable platform with a superior battery performance, they are opening up multi-tasking APIs to third-party app designers to include in their apps with the pending release of iOS7. 

 

I also expect Apple to make several more announcements relating to iOS7 when it leave Beta. They have not completely tipped their hand on the new iOS.

 

Microsoft is drawing a lot of attention to multitasking and are playing right into imminent Apple strength. Before the year is out Microsoft will rue even bringing the topic up. 1smile.gif

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post #63 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

It amazes me that Microsoft truly thought they could go head to head with Apple's iPad, especially when everybody else who has tried has failed miserably. Is it an ego, complete ignorance, or simply being a glutton for punishment?

It was their belief that a lack of Office & a keyboard were holding back the iPad. So they thought they had a perfect opportunity. Then they realized: Office & keyboard doesn't sell tablets. Proof #1: iPad sales never depended on it. Proof #2: it's not selling the comparably (or cheaper) priced Surface RT. Office is not the killer app for tablets.

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post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosJk View Post

there is a better one coming

That was never the problem with Surface RT.

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post #65 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

To compare two things it would be useful, however, on such a small device it may not be practical. I don't quite see the need to have a Facetime and a spreadsheet as the advantage of seeing someone while reading something is, well, stupid. You can't do both simultaneously even if your tablet can. The ability for the other person to maintain visual while you are doing something else seems logical. 

The Surface isn't doing Facetime, it was running Skype. It's an important distinction because the Surface (RT or Pro) does not come with a built-in phone option. It can only do Skype over an open wifi. So, assuming there is a wifi running nearby, and its signal could reach the playing field, and the scout had password access, then he could do what the commercial suggested... if the wifi wasn't carrying other traffic and cause the skype video to breakup.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #66 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

....They need to leave some market for Apple now that Apple's iPhone business is in shambles thanks to Samsung and Android.
In shambles? Really? Please provide us with EVIDENCE of Apple "In Shambles" because everywhere I look the iPhone is number one in cust. sat, reliability, PROFIT, among many others.

Again, EVIDENCE or this is just more of your usual BS.
post #67 of 127
Surface to ipad:
I have to already slash my ridiculously low price against your premium price just to keep up even though my latest commercial touts me as being more goddamn versatile.
Ipad to surface:
Tell Ballmer to keep up the good work.
post #68 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


It was their belief that a lack of Office & a keyboard were holding back the iPad. So they thought they had a perfect opportunity. Then they realized: Office & keyboard doesn't sell tablets. Proof #1: iPad sales never depended on it. Proof #2: it's not selling the comparably (or cheaper) priced Surface RT. Office is not the killer app for tablets.

People may have thought MS Office was essential initially when the iPad started selling into enterprise, but Enterprise, government, schools and institutions got several years of experience without MS Office and learned that they could work just fine without it. Now, with iOS7 and iWork in the cloud and on the web, MS Office will shortly become even more redundant. 

 

The barn door was open for too many years and Microsoft still thinks they can herd the customers back under their roof... I don't think so.

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post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


It was their belief that a lack of Office & a keyboard were holding back the iPad. So they thought they had a perfect opportunity. Then they realized: Office & keyboard doesn't sell tablets. Proof #1: iPad sales never depended on it. Proof #2: it's not selling the comparably (or cheaper) priced Surface RT. Office is not the killer app for tablets.

Microsoft just thinks that since they control essentially 90% of the desktops/laptops that they think they want Microsoft products for smartphones and tablets.

 

Oops.  I guess they were wrong.

post #70 of 127
But the keyboard clicks!
post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

But the keyboard clicks!

Yeah, their biggest innovation.  A keyboard that clicks to the tablet.  OMG, Hold me back!!!!!!!  Stop the Presses!!!!  Stand back, BIG MICROSOFT INNOVATION!!!!

 

 

They should have just called the thing the Zune tablet.  It's a little more fitting.

post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

They should have just called the thing the Zune tablet.  It's a little more fitting.
But would anyone have wanted a turd-colored tablet? Or to "squirt" things at their friends?
Edited by MikeJones - 7/15/13 at 3:38pm
post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

The Surface isn't doing Facetime, it was running Skype. It's an important distinction because the Surface (RT or Pro) does not come with a built-in phone option. It can only do Skype over an open wifi. So, assuming there is a wifi running nearby, and its signal could reach the playing field, and the scout had password access, then he could do what the commercial suggested... if the wifi wasn't carrying other traffic and cause the skype video to breakup.

Connecting your phone via bluetooth or hotspot to a Surface is a very trivial task, not to mention it has a normal USB that can also handle a cellular modem. The commercial you are referring was show casing a Dell XPS, not a Surface, and this tablet does have built in LTE support. Samsung, Asus and Dell all make Windows 8 tablets with built in 3G/4G.

Dell XPS tablet with LTE



Dell Latitude 10 with LTE and removable battery



Edited by Relic - 7/15/13 at 3:50pm
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post #74 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Now that Apple is certain they have a very stable platform with a superior battery performance, they are opening up multi-tasking APIs to third-party app designers to include in their apps with the pending release of iOS7. 

I also expect Apple to make several more announcements relating to iOS7 when it leave Beta. They have not completely tipped their hand on the new iOS.

Microsoft is drawing a lot of attention to multitasking and are playing right into imminent Apple strength. Before the year is out Microsoft will rue even bringing the topic up. 1smile.gif

Sorry but do you have anything that can back this up? One of the reasons why the iPad has such could performance is that it limits the amount of processes that are running in the background. Apple will have to add more than 1GB of memory if they are going to start extending the amount of programs that can be ran in the background.
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post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post


In shambles? Really? Please provide us with EVIDENCE of Apple "In Shambles" because everywhere I look the iPhone is number one in cust. sat, reliability, PROFIT, among many others.

Again, EVIDENCE or this is just more of your usual BS.

The Constable speaks with cheeked tongue.

 

Cheers

post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"Microsoft slashes Surface RT prices by $150 as it flounders against Apple's iPad"

I think this is an insult to flounders.

 

They did it for the halibut.

 

Cheers

post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Sorry but do you have anything that can back this up? One of the reasons why the iPad has such could performance is that it limits the amount of processes that are running in the background. Apple will have to add more than 1GB of memory if they are going to start extending the amount of programs that can be ran in the background.

Anything to back up what exactly? Apple has already talked about how iOS 7 expands what programs can do in the background quite a bit. Also, needing more than 1GB of RAM? No, all it requires is a good scheduler and smart memory paging. And iOS 7 is bringing about more intelligent scheduling. It's funny how you go on about him needing to back up what he said, when you haven't provided anything to back up your claims.

post #78 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! Let's see:

1) MS tries to go head to head with Apple's iPod/iTunes Store with the Zune. Epic fail.

2) MS tries to go head to head with Apple's iPhone/App Store with the Kin phone. Epic fail.

3) MS tries to go head to head with Apple's iPad. Epic fail.

I think this is a trend....

P.S. Hey, MS, Dude, I will do Balmer's job for $50,000/yr.


The challenge for Microsoft is defining their core business, once their core business is defined they can determine the best financial model from which all decisions must be justified:
  • Desktop Operating Systems
  • Server Operating Systems
  • Productivity Software
  • Infrastructure Services
  • Mobile Operating Systems
  • Mobile devices
  • Game Consoles
  • Software Development
  • Search Engine
  • Mapping & Navigation
  • Social Networking


Apple = Hardware (Software and Services are free or inexpensive and the user experience is critical in customer satisfaction and loyalty with user referrals of friends and new markets to generate growth)
Google = Advertising (Hardware is free or inexpensive and market share is critical with new markets to generate growth)
post #79 of 127
At the risk of beating a dead fish, those who are sailors may know that to founder is more precise than the more general sink. Sink means to go down to the bottom by whatever means (hole in the hull, cut on two by another vessel, etc.) to founder means to take water over the gunwales to the point that the ship is disabled, but doesn't necessarily sink. A boat that has foundered may be immobilized but not sink, and thus be towed to port and saved.

Then there is the founder/flounder matter. I realize that as a living language, I may fighting a losing battle by trying to stem the tide of misuse that has allowed flounder to become a verb. But ask yourself why a flounder would flop around any more helplessly than any other fish? Someone way back when simply confabulated founder with blunder, and the visual image of the fish in distress was simply too vivid to make its misuse go away. So there! ;-)
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post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I realize that as a living language, I may fighting a losing battle by trying to stem the tide of misuse that has allowed flounder to become a verb.

Yes, you are definitely fighting a losing battle. It has been used as an intransitive verb as an alteration of founder since around 1592 according to Merriam-Webster. You're about 421 years late to the party.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flounder

 

Origin of FLOUNDER

 

probably alteration of founder
First Known Use: 1592
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