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Selling 50% of iPhones through Apple's retail stores viewed as an unrealistic, lofty goal - Page 2

post #41 of 88
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Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Can't you just take the sim card out, switch it, and restore, sync from a backup or iCloud? After two years AT&T will unlock your phone.

Unless, of course, your family has iPhone 5, 4s, 4, and 3g models. The sim cards (don't yet) float down the line. It does require some intervention from AT&T.

Thx,  forgot about that.

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post #42 of 88

OK.... I googled it but saw no quote of Tim Cook stating a 50% goal.  Someone please provide a link with a quote?

post #43 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

 

Since when do you have to make an appointment to buy something at an Apple Store?

When you have to bring three phones in and have them shuffle the accounts around so you can "trickle down" the upgrade to your family. Particularly problematic when the sim cards aren't all the same; even when they are, it's a whole lot less hassle to let the AT&T store do it for you when you're buying the phone.

 

I usually wait a month after the release of a device to upgrade, so long lines aren't an issue, but even if everything could be done at an Apple store, I spend far less time at an AT&T store getting the purchase made (and that doesn't count the extra 30 miles I have to drive plus horrible parking at the Victoria Gardens store). Plus, I don't have to fight through all the people who treat the Apple Store as a "Disneyland experience". I just want to buy the phone, get the accounts rotated around, and get out. AT&T is much better for that.

 

I've bought three iPads: the first at an Apple Store (in San Diego), the second on-line, and the third at an AT&T store (when I was upgrading an iPhone at the time). AT&T stores are boring, no doubt about it, but all I've ever had to wait on were some customers paying their bills.

 

I *have* taken a Thunderbolt display to an Apple store and was told I had to make an appt and bring it back three days later for service. I had to make a scene and insist on talking to a manager in order to leave the display there rather than make yet another trip to bring it back. What's with that nonsense? I just drove 30-something miles (one way) and they want me to waste another hour and three gallons of gas just because they don't want to store the display until their techs can get around to fixing it?

 

I hate Apple stores. 

post #44 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post


I *have* taken a Thunderbolt display to an Apple store and was told I had to make an appt and bring it back three days later for service. I had to make a scene and insist on talking to a manager in order to leave the display there rather than make yet another trip to bring it back. What's with that nonsense? I just drove 30-something miles (one way) and they want me to waste another hour and three gallons of gas just because they don't want to store the display until their techs can get around to fixing it?

I hate Apple stores. 

Maybe you should have called first. Lack of planning on your part shouldn't downgrade the experience. In addition, if every one wanted to store their products at the Apple Store to get fixed, there'd be no room. Also liability concerns too.
post #45 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

 

I *have* taken a Thunderbolt display to an Apple store and was told I had to make an appt and bring it back three days later for service. I had to make a scene and insist on talking to a manager in order to leave the display there rather than make yet another trip to bring it back. What's with that nonsense? I just drove 30-something miles (one way) and they want me to waste another hour and three gallons of gas just because they don't want to store the display until their techs can get around to fixing it?

 

I hate Apple stores. 

 

 

indeed. I find service in Apple stores to be horrible experiences.  I had a friend go in with a defective cable and he had to take a appointement and return.  I got the same experience when I wanted to service a laptop. Once you know how they work you take an appointed the next times.

 

Even with appointements, I always had to wait 15 to 45 minutes.

post #46 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Maybe you should have called first. Lack of planning on your part shouldn't downgrade the experience. In addition, if every one wanted to store their products at the Apple Store to get fixed, there'd be no room. Also liability concerns too.

 

Its still an unusual way to do things, if I want to return something at Best Buy or Costco, I dont need to take an appointement and I will probably be served faster than at the Apple Store even if I had an appointement.

post #47 of 88
I hope Apple doesn't seriously let the pursuit of specific numerical goals drive their decision-making. I would guess Apple could attribute most of their success to pursuing specific human-benchmarks and the numerical volume follows as a side-effect. Stick to that Mr. Cook.
post #48 of 88
It's my understanding that carrier stores charge sales tax on the full price of an iPhone, before subsidization, while Apple stores charge tax on just the amount paid in the US. Anyone know if that's still the case?
post #49 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This seems like faulty reasoning at best and based on very limited information.  A lot of those people "jamming" the stores are just there to check out the products.  

Including perhaps folks checking out the iPhone and then walking out to go to their carrier store to buy it because they either assume that Apple only sells it full price or that Apple doesn't sell it at all and they have to go to carrier to get it.

From the rumor I heard numbers come out to more like 90% of all iPhone repairs are done at Apple (carriers are only allowed to do insurance swaps for damage etc, not warranty service) but only 30% of sales are at Apple Stores including online. At least in the US. That is whacked and likely what Tim is trying to even out. So wanting to get it more to 50% isn't that insane. Getting folks to understand that Apple can do on contract thus subsidized sales and getting folks to stop spending basically the same money in OOW swaps when they have an upgrade available will be a good start

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post #50 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by captmark View Post

That will never happen!! The Apple Stores are the worst shopping experience in my life!! I absolutely hate having to go there and will never go to buy anything!! I can't be the only one who feels this way!!
So feather than subject myself to that I can go to AT&T's website push a few buttons nd the phone arrives on my doorstep!! Seems like the way to go to me!

 

I'm glad you're excited!

 

!!

post #51 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

Partly true...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tim+cook+50%25+iphone+sales+through+retail

Which just leads to more articles alleging what he said. Not proving it. Proof would be a video or audio of him literally saying it, a press release etc.

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post #52 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

You doubt Tim Cook comments but you dont take 5 secs to google it? 

No we're supposed to use Bing now remember. What is the verb of Bing, Bing'n it, oooh I'm going to be Bing'n your search so hard.
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post #53 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Its still an unusual way to do things, if I want to return something at Best Buy or Costco, I dont need to take an appointement and I will probably be served faster than at the Apple Store even if I had an appointement.

Cats and dogs. Apple doesn't require appointments for retail business. But what he was talking about with the display was warranty service. And even at places like Best Buy you aren't likely to be in and out. They will take it, stick a number on it and get around to it later. Could be up to a week. So it's really not that much better.

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post #54 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

No we're supposed to use Bing now remember. What is the verb of Bing, Bing'n it, pooh I'm going to be Bing'n your search so hard.

Isn't it just Bing as a single word?

"Do you, uh, Yahoo!?"
"Google it."
"Bing."

Hard to keep up. Then there's Dogpile and AltaVista... that's old, though.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #55 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Which just leads to more articles alleging what he said. Not proving it. Proof would be a video or audio of him literally saying it, a press release etc.

 

Please read comments in context.  That is why I said "partly" true to the other poster.  The 50% is an implied statement from Cook, and that was the point of my comment.

post #56 of 88
Apple needs to throw in something like free Apple Care on the phone if you buy it at an Apple Store. That would have a big impact on where customers choose to buy.
post #57 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

Apple needs to throw in something like free Apple Care on the phone if you buy it at an Apple Store. That would have a big impact on where customers choose to buy.

I don't know what the Apple Store gives away but Dataquest, a local Swiss Apple shop gives away a free 100CHF Gift Card towards apps, accessories and Applecare. They will also undercut other companies prices, even if their on sale, all you have to do is bring in the advertisement.
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post #58 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

Partly true...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tim+cook+50%25+iphone+sales+through+retail

And, yet, not a single article provides a direct quote from Cook saying that 50% of iPhone sales should come through the Apple Stores.

It's a made up claim that people keep repeating.
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post #59 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

Apple needs to throw in something like free Apple Care on the phone if you buy it at an Apple Store. That would have a big impact on where customers choose to buy.

Why?

Also, is that legal? The differentiation, I mean.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #60 of 88

If only this data had been around for all the earlier shipped vs sold debates!  Apple's direct retail sales are around 15%.  I'm not sure if that includes online sales so let's assume another 10% of sales happen direct to consumers from Apple's online store.  That means Apple has definite sales information for 25% of all shipped iPhones. Conversely, 75% of reported sales are actually channel shipments.  I'm looking forward to the next debate!

post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hard to keep up. Then there's Dogpile and AltaVista... that's old, though.

 

I miss those guys. Dogpile was awesome.

post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

If only this data had been around for all the earlier shipped vs sold debates!  Apple's direct retail sales are around 15%.  I'm not sure if that includes online sales so let's assume another 10% of sales happen direct to consumers from Apple's online store.  That means Apple has definite sales information for 25% of all shipped iPhones. Conversely, 75% of reported sales are actually channel shipments.  I'm looking forward to the next debate!

 

Except Apple reports channel inventory, and it's inventory turn. Besides, you know, reporting actual numbers, instead of vague $$$ amounts or leaving it to analyst estimates (which then get compared to Apple's actual numbers).

post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

More importantly, there's no evidence that Apple has EVER stated a goal of selling 50% of iPhones through its retail stores. This is just another example of someone making up some silly claim, pretending that it's Apple's goal, and then claiming it's unrealistic.

 

The analysts didn't make it up on their own.

 

The story apparently originated with 9to5mac in this article, which said:

 

"Hints of the new iPhones sales push were described at a secretive summit at San Francisco’s Fort Mason for Apple Retail Store Leaders from across the globe, according to multiple people familiar with the internal event…
 
"Cook reportedly spoke to Apple’s Retail Store Leaders for approximately three hours. During this time, Cook expressed satisfaction with the way Macs and iPads have been selling via Apple Stores, so he placed those two products on a figurative “back-burner” during his talk, according to two sources. "
post #64 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

The analysts didn't make it up on their own.

Nope, Analysts never make up anything. Did you write that with a straight face?
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Nope, Analysts never make up anything. Did you write that with a straight face?

 

I didn't say that "analysts never make up anything".   You created that strawman.

 

I said they didn't make up THIS story on their own, and then I gave a reference to back up that reasoning.


Edited by KDarling - 7/17/13 at 1:50pm
post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And, yet, not a single article provides a direct quote from Cook saying that 50% of iPhone sales should come through the Apple Stores.

It's a made up claim that people keep repeating.

 

And yet one of the articles says that the context of the conversation "implied" the 50%, thus my "partly" comment.  It wasn't direct, it was implied.

post #67 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Nope, Analysts never make up anything. Did you write that with a straight face?

That's not what he wrote. Did you try to bait him with a straight face?

post #68 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

To further its efforts to bring in more iPhone customers and sell them upgrades, Apple also plans to begin taking iPhone trade-ins at its retail stores.

 

That would go a long way towards getting me to buy my phone at an Apple Store. I don't feel comfortable doing a trade-in by mail (plus I can do without the expense and hassle), but if I could just walk into an Apple Store and trade in my iP4 on the spot, I'd be inclined to do so.

post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

I can drive two miles to my AT&T store and walk out with a working iPhone (and "trickle down" my phone through the other phones on my family plan). Or I can walk into Apple's store 35 miles away and be told I have to make an appt to come back three days later. FAIL!  I avoid Apple stores as much as I possibly can. If Tim really wants me to buy from an Apple store, we need more of them (closer to home like the AT&T stores) and I need to be able to walk in, get my device quickly, and walk out.

 

What you said. It's bad enough when you lug in a warranty repair only to be sent away, but one doesn't expect to have to make an appointment to BUY something.

 

My local lab books up to 50% capacity by appointment, the other half is first-come-first served. That way one at least has the OPTION of waiting around until someone is free. Might be a long wait, might be short, you never know. Those who don't want to deal with that uncertainty can make an appointment.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to operate the Genius Bar in a similar fashion?

post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by captmark View Post

The Apple Stores are the worst shopping experience in my life!! I absolutely hate having to go there and will never go to buy anything!! I can't be the only one who feels this way!!

 

You might be. With the exception of buying and activating an iPhone, (which I've never done at an Apple store myself but I'm told is a nuisance) I've found the Apple Store to be the most amazing retail experience of my life. Lots of helpful staff, product samples to play with everywhere, and I can check out with virtually any staff person or even myself! I don't know how they could make it better.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I'm talking about the purchasing side of things. The repairs side is a whole 'nuther matter.


Edited by v5v - 7/17/13 at 4:44pm
post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Maybe you should have called first. Lack of planning on your part shouldn't downgrade the experience.

 

Seriously? Who would anticipate having to make an appointment to drop off a repair? I know to do that NOW, but only after being told to go away and not come back until I'd learned how to use their online appointment system.

 

It's atypical so people don't expect it. It doesn't make Apple evil, but it's unfair to chastise the person getting that first time surprise.

post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Seriously? Who would anticipate having to make an appointment to drop off a repair? I know to do that NOW, but only after being told to go away and not come back until I'd learned how to use their online appointment system.

It's atypical so people don't expect it. It doesn't make Apple evil, but it's unfair to chastise the person getting that first time surprise.

Do you make doctor appointments? Heck, I make appointments for oil changes. Time is money, I don't want to sit around and hope they fix my problem that day.
post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Do you make doctor appointments? Heck, I make appointments for oil changes. Time is money, I don't want to sit around and hope they fix my problem that day.

 

I didn't say it was wrong, I said people don't EXPECT to have to make an appointment to drop off a repair. It's swell that you came up with a completely irrelevant unrelated situation in which one must make an appointment. Shall I now come up with one that doesn't? Okay. Do you make an appointment to return that hair dryer to WalMart? Oops, sorry, I accidentally chose a relevant example. 1smile.gif

 

Yes, you CAN make an appointment for your oil change, but you don't HAVE to. You also have the choice to drive up and take your chances on wait time, which in certain circumstance for certain people may be better.

 

So anyway, to repeat the part of my post that you DIDN'T quote: It's atypical so people don't expect it. It doesn't make Apple evil, but it's unfair to chastise the person getting that first time surprise.

post #74 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

I didn't say that "analysts never make up anything".   You created that strawman.

I said they didn't make up THIS story on their own, and then I gave a reference to back up that reasoning.

So who made up the 50%, even 9to5mac didn't say so.
post #75 of 88
Is there a reference anywhere to Apple's actual claim about an announcement from Tim Cook or anyone else from Apple, or is this an analyst or someone on the web making another overblown assumption?
post #76 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

If only this data had been around for all the earlier shipped vs sold debates!  Apple's direct retail sales are around 15%.  I'm not sure if that includes online sales so let's assume another 10% of sales happen direct to consumers from Apple's online store.  That means Apple has definite sales information for 25% of all shipped iPhones. Conversely, 75% of reported sales are actually channel shipments.  I'm looking forward to the next debate!

The important factor is that Apple lists channel inventory in their quarterly reports so it's trivial to figure out how many were actually sold (shipments minus change in channel inventory). None of the other players do that.
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post #77 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Walk in. Pick up what you want. Go to a blue shirt. Check out.

Alternatively, iOS Apple Store app. Find what you want. Pay for it. Walk into the store. Take thing. Walk out. It's like stealing, but legal.

People are going to have a very difficult time believing you.

 

Having spent 30 minutes waiting to buy an iMac, only to never be served because there were people in front of us, it's hard to suggest you can just walk in and pick up what you want without having to interact with sales.  I challenge anyone to walk in, pick up an iMac, and then go to a blue shirt to buy it without having to do anything else.

 

Oh, sure, it's nice when it's not busy, but too many people are wasting time there.  Maybe it's the particular stores I have near by, but the experience is generally awful.

 

And, as fun as it sounds, buying from the Apple Store app is not always feasible.

 

I've found that I can buy things faster, and generally cheaper, at Best Buy without having to go through the hassle of waiting at an Apple store. 

post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


The important factor is that Apple lists channel inventory in their quarterly reports so it's trivial to figure out how many were actually sold (shipments minus change in channel inventory). None of the other players do that.

 

 

You read this in the quarterly report? I missed it when I read it. Can you point out what page this number is provided?

post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonlotito View Post

Having spent 30 minutes waiting to buy an iMac, only to never be served because there were people in front of us, it's hard to suggest you can just walk in and pick up what you want without having to interact with sales.

Not if you read my post.
Quote:
I challenge anyone to walk in, pick up an iMac, and then go to a blue shirt to buy it without having to do anything else.

To the guy standing by the door: "Hey, I'd like to buy an iMac."

Guy: "Sure; I'll get [other associate] to get one from the back."

Yeah, they'll be like "Do you want AppleCare?" Other than that, no.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Not if you read my post.
To the guy standing by the door: "Hey, I'd like to buy an iMac."

Guy: "Sure; I'll get [other associate] to get one from the back."

Yeah, they'll be like "Do you want AppleCare?" Other than that, no.

They also ask, "Where are you parked? Do you need help carrying it to your car?"

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