or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple, Samsung try again to settle patent disputes, but aren't close to a deal
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple, Samsung try again to settle patent disputes, but aren't close to a deal

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
The ongoing patent struggle between Apple and Samsung recently came close to an end according to a new report that also says the two firms are once again working together to close the book on their worldwide legal struggle.



The two firms together account for virtually all of the profit in the smartphone sector, and they have been locked in legal combat since Apple filed suit in 2011. A new report from The Wall Street Journal on Friday revealed the tech giants are continuing talks to resolve the patent issues, and that they were close to a cross-licensing deal within the past few months.

The report, based on recently released but heavily redacted documents from the U.S. International Trade Commission, holds that Samsung has been pushing for a broad patent cross-licensing deal that would resolve all outstanding litigation between the firms. Apple's interest in such a deal is uncertain.

Shortly after a jury handed Apple a $1.05 billion victory against Samsung, Apple and Samsung's talks ramped up. Apple has had a standing offer of a license for its patents at $30 per handset and $40 per tablet, with the possibility of discounts if Samsung agreed to cross-license its patents to Apple.

In December, according to the documents, the two companies were engaged in face-to-face meetings in Seoul, South Korea, with the goal of resolving the legal disputes. Those meetings, according to reports, brought the two close to an actual agreement on a settlement, but they are said to have cooled off by February. The two parties drafted a "memorandum of understanding" on February 7, laying out a potential settlement. That memorandum was brought to senior leadership at Samsung and Apple, but there is no indication within the ITC document as to those executives' take on the proposal.

The revelation of ongoing talks is not surprising, as Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook said last year that he would "highly prefer" to settle patent litigation instead of fighting such issues out in the courts.Most of the settlement propositions have been redacted from the ITC document, but Apple has continually argued that Samsung's offers weren't specific, fair, or reasonable.

The ITC has countered Apple's complaints, though, saying that the fact "that representatives for both parties were able to reach a memorandum of understanding indicates Samsung is negotiating in good faith and, to be colloquial, is playing in the same ballpark as Apple."

The revelation of ongoing talks is not surprising, as Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook said last year that he would "highly prefer" to settle patent litigation instead of fighting such issues out in the courts.

"I've always hated litigation, and I continue to hate it," Cook said. "If we could get to some kind of arrangement where we could be assured [against future patent infringement], I highly prefer to settle versus battle."

Continuing, Cook assured that his statements should not be taken as an indication that Apple was preparing to stand down in its numerous legal struggles. Cook held fast to the notion that other companies need to be responsible for creating their own intellectual property.

"The key thing is that Apple not become the developer for the world," the Apple chief said, "we need people to invent their own stuff."

More recently, Samsung CEO J.K. Shin seemed less optimistic about the possibility of a settlement between the two rivals.

"Patent disputes against Apple will continue," Shin said in June shortly after the handed Samsung a win in the form of an import ban on older iPhones and iPads.
post #2 of 24
If they could settle with Samsung on $30 per handset, $40 per tablet AND immediately pay the outstanding $1+ billion judgment to Apple, it might be worth it. Let Samsung try to make a profit at those combined costs...and if they can't, Android dies an ignoble death.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #3 of 24
Apple and Google are also said to be in lots of talks. Not sure what will come of that either.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

If they could settle with Samsung on $30 per handset, $40 per tablet AND immediately pay the outstanding $1+ billion judgment to Apple, it might be worth it. Let Samsung try to make a profit at those combined costs...and if they can't, Android dies an ignoble death.

Android disappearing would not be good. If the marketplace became iOS dominated then Apple's products would become stagnant a la Internet Explorer for awhile. Competition is good for the marketplace. Quite a bit of the new features for iOS 7 were borrowed from Android and Google. For starters, Google Chrome popularized the unified search bar that is standard in web browsers today and iOS 7 finally introduces that to mobile Safari.

 

Or how about "Press the Home button twice to see preview screens of the apps you have open. To quit an app, just swipe it up and out of preview." feature? Android has long supported that identical functionality.

 

Apple seemingly pays attention to their competition and borrows features that they feel are a good fit for their OS, occasionally improving upon them.

 

Even if Samsung were to go bankrupt, the brand and product names are strong enough where they will survive in some capacity. Think Twinkies.

post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

Competition is good for the marketplace. Quite a bit of the new features for iOS 7 were borrowed from Android and Google. For starters, Google Chrome popularized the unified search bar that is standard in web browsers today and iOS 7 finally introduces that to mobile Safari.

Or how about "Press the Home button twice to see preview screens of the apps you have open. To quit an app, just swipe it up and out of preview." feature? Android has long supported that identical functionality.

Apple seemingly pays attention to their competition and borrows features that they feel are a good fit for their OS, occasionally improving upon them.

Even if Samsung were to go bankrupt, the brand name is strong enough where they will survive in some capacity. Think Twinkies.

If Apple "copies" protected features or rips off someone else's intellectual property, then they should pay for it. Do you have any proof there are patents that apply to those things you referenced?
Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/19/13 at 2:38pm

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

More recently, Samsung CEO J.K. Shin seemed less optimistic about the possibility of a settlement between the two rivals.

"Patent disputes against Apple will continue," Shin said in June shortly after the handed Samsung a win in the form of an import ban on older iPhones and iPads.
So rather than simply saying, "we'd like to get this settled. Out of court if possible", he says "Patent disputes against Apple will continue" (because we have no interest in settling).
What a douche.
post #7 of 24
Come on Scamscum, pay up. I'm surprised, but not surprised on some levels, why Scamscum is allowed to compete with their various component customers in the same markets. That's an unfair business advantage, conflict of interest and just really SLEAZY business practices in my book.

I'm glad I don't work for that organization. I wouldn't want to pick up any bad business habits.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


If Apple "copies" protected features or rips off someone else's intellectual property, then they should pay to it. Do you have any proof there are patents that apply to those things you referenced?

I was never discussing patents. Merely that if Android disappeared that would be bad for iOS since Apple seemingly borrows features from their competition; the vice-versa is true as well. This is commonplace in a healthy competitive environment.

 

In the case of the unified address bar, it is the following patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090006389

post #9 of 24
I see a picture like this a lot. iPhone showing its home screen and the Samsung device set to the App Drawer and not the home screen, as if it was, the two wouldn't look as much alike. But you can still clear see where Samsung borrowed (and i use that very loosely) some of its layout ideas from.
Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
Reply
Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
Reply
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

I was never discussing patents. Merely that if Android disappeared that would be bad for iOS since Apple seemingly borrows features from their competition; the vice-versa is true as well. This is commonplace in a healthy competitive environment.

In the case of the unified address bar, it is the following patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20090006389

I was talking about patents because if there is no IP protection on an implementation, then it doesn't matter where it came from.

Also, we have no proof either way if Apple has a licensing agreement for that search bar patent, or if their implementation is sufficiently different.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I was talking about patents because if there is no IP protection on an implementation, then it doesn't matter where it came from.

Also, we have no proof either way if Apple has a licensing agreement for that search bar patent, or if their implementation is sufficiently different.
Not every patent holder runs to the courthouse when someone might be borrowing without permission.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Not every patent holder runs to the courthouse when someone might be borrowing without permission.

That's true because they usually settle.

Sammy isn't going to make the first move. It'll just copy Apple's next move anyway.
post #13 of 24
It will get interesting when Googles Motorola crosses the line and causes Apple to train their legal guns squarely on Google. Perhaps after the Moto X announcement, soon.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Not every patent holder runs to the courthouse when someone might be borrowing without permission.

That's not how it works. If you are a patent holder and fail to assert your patent rights, it will ultimately weaken your claim to your patent.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

That's not how it works. If you are a patent holder and fail to assert your patent rights, it will ultimately weaken your claim to your patent.

Wrong. It has zero effect.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

That's not how it works. If you are a patent holder and fail to assert your patent rights, it will ultimately weaken your claim to your patent.

 

You're thinking of trademarks.  They have to be defended.

 

Patent claims do not weaken just by not asserting them.

 

What DOES lessen, if you delay filing a patent infringement claim, is the amount that can be recovered for PAST infringements (the legal limit is anything over six years prior to filing a complaint).

post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondm16 View Post

I see a picture like this a lot. iPhone showing its home screen and the Samsung device set to the App Drawer and not the home screen, as if it was, the two wouldn't look as much alike. But you can still clear see where Samsung borrowed (and i use that very loosely) some of its layout ideas from.

 

Guess you don't remember Samsung's own advertisements for the Galaxy where they showed it with the App Drawer open.

post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


That's not how it works. If you are a patent holder and fail to assert your patent rights, it will ultimately weaken your claim to your patent.

That is for trademarks.

post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

 

Guess you don't remember Samsung's own advertisements for the Galaxy where they showed it with the App Drawer open.

 

I hear about this but never seen anything to back it up. I did find this TV advert which shows the App Drawer right at the end.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zrCFx2JvkU

Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
Reply
Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
Reply
post #20 of 24

I bet one of the sticking points for Apple isn't the $$$, but rather the disclosure.

 

Lots of deals get made where no details are released. This implies that both parties are equal. But in this case, I'm sure Apple is expecting Samsung to pony up - it'll largely be a one-sided deal where Samsung gives up more than Apple does. And I bet Apple wants everyone to know this, that Apple "won" and Samsung "admitted" to copying and paid up.

 

A settlement without disclosing terms doesn't do Apple much good. Apple has lots of money - a few billion more won't be much. But being able to publish parts of the agreement that would show Samsung caved in and settled would be a huge PR win for Apple and likely worth as much (or more) than a simple monetary settlement.

post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

Android disappearing would not be good. If the marketplace became iOS dominated then Apple's products would become stagnant a la Internet Explorer for awhile.

No, they wouldn't. The iPod proves this. Apple isn't Microsoft. Apple has principles.

Why people pretend not to be able to see that after multiple decades is beyond me.
Quote:
For starters, Google Chrome popularized...

And Apple is the reason Chrome exists at all.
Quote:
Or how about "Press the Home button twice to see preview screens of the apps you have open.

Apple did that first, of course.
Quote:
Even if Samsung were to go bankrupt, the brand and product names are strong enough where they will survive in some capacity. Think Twinkies.

Ew.

...

How fitting!

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


I was talking about patents because if there is no IP protection on an implementation, then it doesn't matter where it came from.

Also, we have no proof either way if Apple has a licensing agreement for that search bar patent, or if their implementation is sufficiently different.

 

And Apple patents bullshit things that should never have been granted a patent in the first place.  The rest of the companies just innovate and build on everything else.  I know people here seem to think that Apple innovates everything and everyone copies.  But that's simply not the case.  I remember reading an interview of Gosling who talked about how Sun never bothered with patents and focused on engineering and making the best products they could (like HTC).  IBM almost sued them out of existence in the late 80s.  After that, they started patenting everything.  They didn't want to do it.  It was not in their DNA, but they had to do it to protect themselves.  Google has similar DNA as Sun.  In fact, I never understood why they didn't buy Sun and sell off the hardware division if they needed to.  They were a much better fit for Sun (and Java) then Oracle.

post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

 

And Apple patents bullshit things that should never have been granted a patent in the first place.  The rest of the companies just innovate and build on everything else.  I know people here seem to think that Apple innovates everything and everyone copies.  But that's simply not the case.

So you think it's just the opposite?

Apple copies everyone else's innovations?

post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

And Apple patents bullshit things that should never have been granted a patent in the first place.  The rest of the companies just innovate and build on everything else.

Keep talking and stay here.

...

Wait, we're playing "opposite day", right?
Quote:
It was not in their DNA, but they had to do it to protect themselves. Google has similar DNA as Sun.

You don't know what DNA means in this context. Please don't think you do.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple, Samsung try again to settle patent disputes, but aren't close to a deal