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Latest iPad-bashing Microsoft ad focuses on peripherals, new Surface RT price point - Page 2

post #41 of 99
Do I smell desperation? Just sell the entire Windows tablet business to Dell and let him take it private.
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post #42 of 99
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

The term is correct, although possibly a double entendre.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cum

Nope, a very common Latin phrase loaned to English. Only the most ignorant or perverse would find this usage in anyway sexual

Edit: what I mean is that it's not a double entendre
post #43 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

they don't include or mention the fact that the iPad has a USB accessory that will make it read the USB stick

The Surface port will provide power to the devices to mount them but they do miss out a few key things, which advertising tends to do. Microsoft fails to say in the ad that the 32GB Surface only has 15GB free (according to Microsoft), which is only slightly more than the 16GB iPad's free space. So even with the heavily discounted Surface, the price comparison should be:

32GB Surface $349
16GB Retina iPad $499

but the Surface doesn't have a high res display so even the $399 iPad 2 is comparable.

The biggest failing in Microsoft's campaign that I see is they focus on things that nobody cares that much about. It would be like a car company advertising that they make the best door handles in the market. The way to win consumers is with the experience - Apple even spelled it out in their last ad campaign: 'this is what matters... the experience of a product'. Microsoft has failed in that regard because they hacked a legacy UI into the tablet and so they can never show off the core part of the tablet experience as one of its strengths.

The ads are always about people clicking the stand, dancing around the tablet and connecting things to it. The rare times they show it being used, it doesn't have many impressive things about it. The file manager seems to use the Windows UI to access it, which would be very difficult to work with touch. Multi-tasking is useful but apps don't scale well side-by-side and can't easily rotate.

All they needed to do for multi-tasking is have picture-in-picture and crop part of an app as well as a look-through mode. So one app would run behind the other and to reference and copy, just do some bezel gesture or whatever to fade the front app and display the app behind and this would allow quick interaction with the app behind. The picture-in-picture view could have different forms like have a faded separator between the app behind and app in front. Cramming two apps in just doesn't work and the legacy UI doesn't work.
post #44 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojonko View Post

Is the Surface even able to talk? Seems like it's only Siri talking. I wonder how good of advertising approach is that.

Makes you think the Surface is dumb doesn't it? (ha ha)
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post #45 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Do I smell desperation? Just sell the entire Windows tablet business to Dell and let him take it private.

ROFL
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post #46 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

Whether the average iPad consume would benefit from a real USB port or not is questionable. I own a Surface Pro (SP) and after having lost the stylus right before a show I was doing, let me tell you how being able to plug in a mouse really saved my butt. Wouldn't work on an iPad (doesn't support a mouse), but on the SP it was a lifesaver.

3) The stylus is a disaster. I replaced an HP Touchsmart laptop/tablet with the SP. The HP had a hole you could stick the stylus in and the stylus was tethered to the tablet with a string. Never lost the stylus. On the SP the stylus attaches to the outside of the tablet with a magnet; no tethering. When I first saw this, I said to myself "I ought to take up a poll for how many days till the stylus is lost." It took three outings. At $29.95 each, that's expensive. Very poor design.

Balmer the caveman "Me poke shiny tablet with stick" while launching into a monkey boy dance.
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post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


Balmer the caveman "Me poke shiny tablet with stick" while launching into a monkey boy dance.

LOLOLOLOL. Awesome.

post #48 of 99

Idea for new Microsoft campaign:  We have Steve Ballmer and you don't.  And Ballmer is the balm.

post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Yeah, first there was the 30-pin that they only used for 11 years, and now they've gone and changed it calling it technology for the next decade so it'll probably only be 9 or 10 years before they change it AGAIN! It's impossible to keep up.

/s


You call $20 "cheap?" I don't. Even Monoprice's typically excellent pricing is triple what a conventional Mini-USB costs.

Mini-USB doesn't provide the same charging capabilities of a lightning connector and is therefore inferior. If the iPhone had gone to Mini-USB then you'd be able to have a decent accessory market to ride on. Just shut up and accept it. Apple whipped theirs out and guess what it was bigger!!!!

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post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

The average consumer could benefit from a USB port because it would make for a cheaper cord for charging and connecting to other devices as opposed to proprietary connectors which cost much more and get changed every few years.  Funny how the ad doesn't touch that though and instead opts for the additional storage argument (which is significantly weaker). 

 

Using a thumb drive to add additional storage to a mobile device signals to me that the mobile device itself is lacking in storage space.  My phone has tons of storage space and can act like a thumb drive when I need one.  The approach that MS takes in this ad just further proves how clueless they are when it comes to mobile computing.

 

The ironic thing here is that lightning is probably here to stay for the next decade at least, while it is only a matter of time before the industry moves on to the next iteration of USB which may not may not stay backwards compatible with existing USB ports.

 

This is what I have always found amusing. Apple gets flak for using their own 30-pin port despite it having stayed the same for 10 years, yet other companies get away with using 18 different cables during the same period of time, simply because they are industrial standards? 

 

As for the thumb drive, I don't so much see it as a means of adding storage, but a quick way to transfer data from one device to another. Most obvious being movies. Current, for IOS devices, you use either itunes, email or dropbox. 

post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post

It is clear that Microsoft is getting desperate for missing out on the only 2 consumertechmarkets showing significant growth...

Greetings from the Netherlands!

Welcome to AI.

 

Today's Microsoft doesn't play catch-up at all well. (Did a better job in the earliest days, under Bill Gates.). I suspect that restructuring wasn't what MS required but revolution, while it is wealthy enough to survive the consequences.

 

All the best.

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post #52 of 99

Micro USB is grossly inferior to Apple's connector.  That is why Apple, after endorsing the Micro USB format, went their own way.  The problem with Micro USB 3.0 is its speed.  Moving data that quickly doesn't allow the user to savor the transfer.  In comparison, the Apple connector, operating at USB 2.0 speeds, is for connoisseurs who appreciate the moment, and recognize that there is no better way to remember life's milestones than the appreciation of a well-designed cable.  I mean, you can plug it in right-side-up or up-side-down.  Who can ever forget their first time with something like that?   

post #53 of 99

So a USB thumb drive is worth 5 second of eyeball time in the surface ad... Absolutely clueless Microsoft!!

 

So if I get it correctly, on the one hand Ms advertise the cloud as the best thing since sliced bread - and on the other hand, it’s all the rave to have USB thumb drives to move stuff around. If that’s Ms’s idea of how to use a tablet to connect with things and to move stuff around (I mean as opposed to connecting wirelessly via bluetooth/wifi/cellular) than they just don’t get it and deserve the punishment the market is handing to them.

post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

 

This is what I have always found amusing. Apple gets flak for using their own 30-pin port despite it having stayed the same for 10 years, yet other companies get away with using 18 different cables during the same period of time, simply because they are industrial standards? 

 

Samsung and Sony also use proprietary charging ports for their tablets.  It's not just an Apple thing.

post #55 of 99
Ok, so..., for what they're showing, you have to add $100.

For a $100 I can add a wireless Apple keyboard and a SmartCover. So there's you keyboard and kickstand.

Misleading advertising.
post #56 of 99
I was actually one of the weirdos who liked the first ad... Thought it had some humorous moments. But this one feels like an attack. Microsoft's not going to benefit from a bully complex, especially when they end up having to discontinue the project and the Surface joins the Zune in memoriam.
post #57 of 99
lipstick on a pig.
post #58 of 99
When you have a product that won't sell you resort to ads like this, and the people who end up buying one will not be happy in the end. So who really wins here?
post #59 of 99

The Surface RT needs that USB port for additional space given that the dang OS takes up a stupid amount of it's storage. Alright joking aside, the Win RT ads are just not appealing to me. They brag about features and functionality that people willingly gave up without much complaint with the original iPad. The keyboard cover is a great value feature, but it's been proven time and time again that you can throw the truck at a customer but if your core product isn't great, who cares? Do I want a Playstation 4 or do I want a Nokia NGage with 10 games and a car charger? Ok maybe not a great analogy, but Microsoft's RT tablets are garbage at the moment so whatever added value features you have, it's just not going to work.

 

if Microsoft wants to play in this arena they need to do the Amazon trick. Sell RT's at $300 or lower, sell Pro's starting at $499 and go up. Work on saturating the market first, create an actual ecosystem. Then they can focus on profitable machines. Microsoft shouldn't be surprised about taking losses to gain a foothold in a market, that's been the Xbox since day one.

post #60 of 99

On a side note: I really wish the iPad's had an SD card slot. The touch interface and retina really make for a nice way to touch up pictures on my compact camera. 

post #61 of 99
This is just sad and is more showing that they took IPad accessory and thought just add them built in, If you calculate thing through you get different data:

$750 29 gb IPad. $450 15 gb surface

Still cheaper but -100 IPad brings much more realistic price ratio from apple at $200 more for your quality but you also have all you need!!!

If you have surface you still need IPad mini for icloud and iMessage/FaceTime /s

Get the picture however?
post #62 of 99
When it gets to $99 will Balmer resign? Probably not.
post #63 of 99
I think what Microsoft and Samsung fail to realize is that it is really, almost impossible to go brand vs brand when your brand is running a, far from close, second or fifth place against a juggernaut like Apple. Even in their famous 'I'm a Mac, I'm a PC' spots, it wasn't actually brand vs brand because PC isn't a 'brand'. It's hard to win the argument that your features are better than the ones everyone else seems to be enjoying, or that your features are being missed. And to make matters worse, Apple advertisements don't even acknowledge the existence of other brands at all. And to further complicate matters, they don't seem to understand that Apple's tablet dominance isn't because of 'features'. The iPad is more like a portal, than a computer, it is the modern 'magic mirror', a gentle reflection of the user, as well as a portal to all other sorts if media.

They may want to reconsider going after Android users who are much more 'feature' oriented or not able/wanting to make the investment in an iPad or other Apple device, or at least not wanting to admit they'd rather have gotten an iPad. As a pretty dedicated Apple user, when I see all those 'features' I am seeing more things that can break. David can kill Goliath, but you need the right rock, good aim and God on your side. 0 for 3 isn't a good look. Things will change, and one day Apple will not be at the top of the hill, but looking at the commercials of their competitors, that day is a long way off.
post #64 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

(list of PC problems omitted)

 

Uh-huh. PC problems. In a "tablet."

That's Microsoft grand vision for tablet computing, folks.

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post #65 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

Uhhh, the Surface will rotate the screen. In fact, it's quite annoying about this. I really like the fact that the iPad has the lock switch on it so you can prevent screen rotations when you don't want to have them happen. AFAIKT, the SP has nothing like this (though it might be buried in the bowels of Win 8 where I've yet to find it -- PITA).

It's not buried, bring up the Charms on the right and just tap the little icon of the screen once, done.
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post #66 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleTechSpot View Post

Mini-USB doesn't provide the same charging capabilities of a lightning connector and is therefore inferior. You Fandroids just moan and groan about it because if the iPhone had gone to Mini-USB then you'd be able to have a decent accessory market to ride on. Just shut up and accept it. Apple whipped theirs out and guess what it was bigger!!!!

 

 

EDIT: I just realized your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek. If so, please ignore me and move along (some would suggest that's the best strategy in ANY circumstances!).If you were actually serious, please see below:

 

 

Oh jeez, you're one of those, are you? Okay, yeah, yeah, whatever you say, Apple can do no wrong, everything Apple does is better than what anyone else does, etc. etc. etc. Honestly, I don't know how you guys prevent your head from exploding when Apple improves a product, because everything they do is already perfect, right?

 

1oyvey.gif

 

As for the fandroid comment, how you get from preferring conventional USB connectors over Lightning to anything to do with Android is a complete mystery to me. There are no Android devices in this house. In fact, now that I think about it, all our phones and computers are Apple. Somehow we missed the indoctrination into the cult though.


Edited by v5v - 7/20/13 at 1:41am
post #67 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

[...] it is only a matter of time before the industry moves on to the next iteration of USB which may not may not stay backwards compatible with existing USB ports.

 

For the record I don't think Lightning vs. Mini-USB is a big enough deal to care about all that much, BUT:

 

USB has only been updated twice in 17 years, and both times the improved version was backward compatible. I don't think that's a strong argument in favor of Lightning.


Edited by v5v - 7/20/13 at 1:42am
post #68 of 99
Well, this is funny, because I remember Steve Ballmer making fun of people who come to meetings with their iPads, because they have to unfold some keyboard case and thus he believed it was stupid to get a tablet and then spend time setting it up to become similar to a laptop. It is funny how Microsoft now advertises exactly this behaviour of transforming your tablet into some desktop replacement and plugging external devices into it.

Sure, some people might think this is great but it is simply illogical from a consumer perspective. If you got a tablet, or let's better say an iPad, you want a light, all in one device. You don't buy an iPad because you want a vast range of connectable peripherals.
post #69 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakamono View Post

Micro USB is grossly inferior to Apple's connector.  That is why Apple, after endorsing the Micro USB format, went their own way.  The problem with Micro USB 3.0 is its speed.  Moving data that quickly doesn't allow the user to savor the transfer.  In comparison, the Apple connector, operating at USB 2.0 speeds, is for connoisseurs who appreciate the moment, and recognize that there is no better way to remember life's milestones than the appreciation of a well-designed cable.  I mean, you can plug it in right-side-up or up-side-down.  Who can ever forget their first time with something like that?   

What is the point in having a data transfer rate faster than the speed at which the device can read/write? Just creates a bottle neck. USB2 speeds are already faster than the ipad can physically transfer the data. Making your comment pointless.
post #70 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

What is the point in having a data transfer rate faster than the speed at which the device can read/write? Just creates a bottle neck. USB2 speeds are already faster than the ipad can physically transfer the data. Making your comment pointless.

Not only that but the Lightning adaptor has a USB 2.0 adapter on one end so whatever advantages speed wise are completely lost. I would have much prefered a Micro-USB adaptor and a dedicated HDMI out. The whole reason behind the Lightning idea was so Apple could charge accessory manufactures a licensing fee. They could have easily been one of the first companies to support the new Micro-USB 3 standard which has the same power output as Lighting with much quicker data transfer speeds. Yes Apple will support USB 3.0 soon enough with their Lightning adaptor but standardization is much more beneficial to the consumer.

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post #71 of 99
It's a fatal mistake to put price at $499 and then slice it down to $350 after realizing that the market don't buy, it's a mistake that way too late to correct. Slashing price prompts a lot of suspicious thinking in consumer's mind with various speculation, most of it toward a conclusion of the product being inferior. A small fine print is something a lot of informed consumers hated the most. My personal opinion about this is to say that this product is imperfect in delivering the service I need, and at the end I will just left and said to myself "thanks but no thanks".
post #72 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

And all the MS fanboys say this is the real Smart Cover compared to Apple's dumb cover. Clearly anyone tha wants to do extensive typing on the keyboard won't be very productive with the touch cover. Certainly not worth $120.

 

Those who type with one finger will see no difference in efficiency between a touch keyboard and a mechanical one.  Those of us who type efficiently as "tough typists", in excess of 60 wpm, find a touch keyboard unusable.  Sadly, both companies seem to be targeting the one-finger typists.

post #73 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiao-zhi View Post

When it gets to $99 will Balmer resign? Probably not.

If Ballmer does resign, or if he's outsted, I understand Léo Apotheker is available for that CEO post... maybe he can finish the job!  ;)

post #74 of 99

hm, I do like the bassline in the ad.... thats about it hahahahaha.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

 

Those who type with one finger will see no difference in efficiency between a touch keyboard and a mechanical one.  Those of us who type efficiently as "tough typists", in excess of 60 wpm, find a touch keyboard unusable.  Sadly, both companies seem to be targeting the one-finger typists.

YES, THIS!


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
The whole reason behind the Lightning idea was so Apple could charge accessory manufactures a licensing fee. They could have easily been one of the first companies to support the new Micro-USB 3 standard which has the same power output as Lighting with much quicker data transfer speeds.

Huh?  Apple chose it because they like to have full control of their hardware and software experience.  What if someone made a Micro-USB 3 device which did not meet Apple's standard to be used as a charger?  Like, it would slowly drain the device if it was being pushed to the limits (max brightness + demanding game/application).

At least, that is my understanding


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post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

Huh?  Apple chose it because they like to have full control of their hardware and software experience.  What if someone made a Micro-USB 3 device which did not meet Apple's standard to be used as a charger?  Like, it would slowly drain the device if it was being pushed to the limits (max brightness + demanding game/application).

There's no guarantee that couldn't happen anyway, even with an approved accessory. I had a Philips speaker dock that almost fried my iPad, thank goodness I was sitting next to it to see it smoking. The iPad felt like it was on fire.
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post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


There's no guarantee that couldn't happen anyway, even with an approved accessory. I had a Philips speaker dock that almost fried my iPad, thank goodness I was sitting next to it to see it smoking. The iPad felt like it was on fire.

Okay, it gives less of a chance of that happening, better? :)

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post #77 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

For the record I don't think Lightning vs. Mini-USB is a big enough deal to care about all that much, BUT:

USB has only been updated twice in 17 years, and both times the improved version was backward compatible. I don't think that's a strong argument in favor of Lightning.

USB itself may be backwards compatible, but I can't stick mini USB cable into micro USB port.

I swear, there's like a half dozen "mini" USB connections. When going through the cable drawer, I can never find the right one.
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

USB itself may be backwards compatible, but I can't stick mini USB cable into micro USB port.

I swear, there's like a half dozen "mini" USB connections. When going through the cable drawer, I can never find the right one.

There's four, the "mini's" have been discontinued and the majority of devices now just use Micro-B. The new Micro USB 3 will just have one adapter type. There were a few companies that did make their own Mini USB adapters like HTC but they stopped doing it to adhere to a single standard, Micro-B.



USB Micro 3.0

Edited by Relic - 7/20/13 at 1:04pm
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post #79 of 99
Gee, what a great ad... For Siri!
 
Why on Earth does Microsoft devote so much air time to a competitor's feature Surface simply doesn't have? Maybe Apple should make an ad showing a Surface with keyboard, mouse, DVD burner or maybe even a floppy disk drive (because you can!, Why?), inkjet, and networking hardware all pugged into it; all set up on desk, of course, vs. an iPad doing most of those things with its built-in screen, not tied to anything (aka WIRELESSLY), and being used anywhere.
 
Oh yah, and maybe talking to a Surface... And not getting any response.
post #80 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

I swear, there's like a half dozen "mini" USB connections. When going through the cable drawer, I can never find the right one.

 

LOL! True enough!

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