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Apple says developer portal downtime will not affect program memberships

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
As an unusually long maintenance for Apple's developer portal continues, the company recently posted a message on the service's holding page saying developer memberships set to expire during the period will be extended.

Dev Center


Reported earlier on Friday, Apple noted on its Dev Center that the website would be undergoing extended maintenance on Friday, though the portal has now been inaccessible to developers for well over a day.

The company has updated its "We'll be back soon" message, now saying the maintenance is "taking longer than expected." In response, Apple has extended developer memberships set to expire during the downtime.

AppleInsider first received word that the iOS and OS X Dev Centers were down on Thursday, effectively blocking access to developer tools made available through the site.

Apple urges developers who have questions regarding their account to contact dev support.
post #2 of 42

Seems like they ought to extend everybody's membership for the length of the outage. If the service came back up at 3am Monday morning and my membership expired at 4, I'd be a little frustrated.

post #3 of 42

This is highly unusual. I wonder if they have been hacked, and are currently cleaning the nasties out...

post #4 of 42

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

 

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.

 

Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

post #5 of 42
Must be a big upgrade. 1smile.gif
Or they corrupted it and have to restore from backup.
post #6 of 42

Apple Developer Connection is horribly outdated. It still has portions of the UI going back to the year 2000.

post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

 

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.

 

Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

 

It is pretty strange that a company investing billions in a data center and cloud services can't manage to update apps on the fly. Google has migrated petabytes of data and hundreds of millions of users onto radically different backends with people hardly noticing, for example, when they launched the new caffeine backend for search, or when they migrated many of their services from one off storage to bigtable/megastore and now to spanner.

 

But you don't even need to be Google to do this stuff, as you say, even mid-sized IT departments know how to do high-availability migrations with no downtime.  I

post #8 of 42
This sounds like apple is no where close to finished, this also seems not major difference unless true above for most don't procrastinate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

Seems like they ought to extend everybody's membership for the length of the outage. If the service came back up at 3am Monday morning and my membership expired at 4, I'd be a little frustrated.
I'd hope that all for that day were extended, but all people a little to much because $$ can be hurt if they do that.
post #9 of 42

My iPhone suddenly jumped out of the app I was using to the activation screen. From here it is impossible to reactivate it. It just says that the activation server is down. This is probably related.

 

Using iOS 7 beta 3.

post #10 of 42
Time for NSA-proof?

Andors

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Andors

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post #11 of 42
I actually see this as a good sign. The idea is that this is a non trivial update.
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I actually see this as a good sign. The idea is that this is a non trivial update.

 

I believe a non trivial update should be accompanied with a non trivial testing.

post #13 of 42

Still down. Like grains of sand through the hour glass, these are the days of our lives.

post #14 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

 

Alerts go out all over the internet every time the Apple Store goes down. Rumours start flying about what's new, etc Why would that stop that practice it's (accidentally?) brilliant.

 

 

Now for the dev site, it' just lame...

post #15 of 42
For the people who are waiting for the developer site to come back up, it's the weekend, go outside and do something, your app will still be there when you get back.
post #16 of 42
I like that apple has server downtime, though not in the way you might think.

But it allows you to be sure the system is running on all cylinders so to speak and minty fresh.

I don't know how many times we've migrated things over and had it live while we noticed discrepancies over the next hours and days.

There's an inherent security in doing it "old school"

I'd rather it be done right than fast.
post #17 of 42
Does anyone have a link to the Command Line Tools for Xcode? I'm missing those 1frown.gif and can't download
post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

 

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.

 

Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

 

List these seamless swaps, on the fly, by companies with the size and complexity of Apple who have spotless records. I'm waiting.

 

Here is Apple's downtown relative to a year over year ratio:

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/saas/0-1-downtime-is-more-than-8-hours-a-year/79

 

Being down a day puts you at 99.7%+ uptime. [They calculate it based on an 8 hour work day, but we'll do a single full-day].

post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

 

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.

 

Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

 

I'm pretty sure the store thing is purposeful. The "The Store is being updated" gets everyone in a frenzy, and ups anticipation and excitement, as well as making it obvious there's some updates coming,  which is understandable. Personally I hope it never changes. I see it as part of Apple's identity. 

post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by superjunaid View Post

Does anyone have a link to the Command Line Tools for Xcode? I'm missing those 1frown.gif and can't download

In Xcode preferences you can go to the download tab and have it download them if they aren't already installed. Its with the alternate simulator OS versions.

post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by superjunaid View Post

Does anyone have a link to the Command Line Tools for Xcode? I'm missing those 1frown.gif and can't download

In Xcode preferences you can go to the download tab and have it download them if they aren't already installed. Its with the alternate simulator OS versions.

post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

List these seamless swaps, on the fly, by companies with the size and complexity of Apple who have spotless records. I'm waiting.

Here is Apple's downtown relative to a year over year ratio:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/saas/0-1-downtime-is-more-than-8-hours-a-year/79

Being down a day puts you at 99.7%+ uptime. [They calculate it based on an 8 hour work day, but we'll do a single full-day].

Amazon and Google. You're welcome. And it is now 3 days, so about 99% uptime. Apple needs to be in the 99.99%
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post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

It is pretty strange that a company investing billions in a data center and cloud services can't manage to update apps on the fly. Google has migrated petabytes of data and hundreds of millions of users onto radically different backends with people hardly noticing, for example, when they launched the new caffeine backend for search, or when they migrated many of their services from one off storage to bigtable/megastore and now to spanner.

But you don't even need to be Google to do this stuff, as you say, even mid-sized IT departments know how to do high-availability migrations with no downtime.  I
You should do some research before making claims. Google is very good at keeping it quiet and the media and their supporters don't trash them for their numerous failures. you have to do very specific searches because as the controller of search anything not good for them gets burried, but its there.
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Here is Apple's downtown relative to a year over year ratio:

 

Errm, the Apple Store has been down many times over the past year, so the downtime is higher.  Basically every time there's been a product update.  

 

However, as others have commented, perhaps the Apple Store updates are done crudely on purpose, to build excitement for those who like to line up for things. It does have a bit of retro charm :)

 

On the downside, it's also a way to lose customers.  Imagine if eBay or Amazon or MasterCard was brought down for hours each time something new was added.  A lot of potential buyers would just skip past to another source.

 

In any event, I can't see any good reason to do the same for the Apple Developer's network.

 

--

 

Half of my career has been spent helping to design high availability / fast recovery systems for casinos and phone companies.

 

Carriers and other utilities popularized the idea of the Five Nines  (99.999% availability, or less than five minutes downtime a year).  Nobody wants their phones or power taken down just for updates.  Casinos need 24/7 availability or they lose revenue... not to mention that losing customer credit information in today's digital gambling terminals due to a system failure, is simply not an option.

 

Of course, such high availability is expensive.  It requires redundant installations, long term backup power, dedicated communication lines, geographic failover plans, and a staff available all the time.  In many cases, an exact duplicate of the production system is built in an off-site building, where software updates can be tested before installation into production.  Many paid testers are involved.  (It's also a bit like NASA.  If a failure occurs in production, you can try to simulate the problem and test fixes in the duplicate system.)

 

--

 

The upshot is, obviously it's possible to do updates with taking a store site down.   It all depends on how much the company cares about availability, or what their intention is.

post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnielse View Post

My iPhone suddenly jumped out of the app I was using to the activation screen. From here it is impossible to reactivate it. It just says that the activation server is down. This is probably related.

Using iOS 7 beta 3.

I was unaware beta three was out
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigh View Post

I was unaware beta three was out
Nevermind. Drugs are bad. Mkay
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post


You should do some research before making claims. Google is very good at keeping it quiet and the media and their supporters don't trash them for their numerous failures. you have to do very specific searches because as the controller of search anything not good for them gets burried, but its there.

Nice bullshit conspiracy theory, but I'm well aware of Google's downtimes, Google even has an AppStatus Dashboard (http://www.google.com/appsstatus) which Apple copied (http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/ notice the DevCenter is not listed) which shows the history of downtime. Google has never had a 3-day downtime on one of their major services, the worst they've ever had was a small slice of gmail users being unable to see their inboxes which had to be restored from tape backup. Google's system is high-replication multi-datacenter + tape backup, you could drop a nuke on one of their datacenters, and the only thing that would happen is things slow down.

 

I mean, why is this a shock? Google is the world's foremost builder of data centers and cloud services, they've been doing it for over a decade, and they have the world's best tools for doing so reliably, and most of their competitors have now taken the research papers they've published on it and implemented similar architectures, with the exception of their revolutionary Spanner system which is too new yet for people to copy.

 

Google's Borg system allows one to deploy an app over hundreds of thousands of server machines, to segment them by version, and even to serve up different versions to different users, different geo-ips, etc, so updating a site is trivial, in fact, Google pushes out updates continuously to their sites. They've also unfathomable amounts of data between radically different storage backends without taking the system down. Like I said, they migrated their entire web crawler index with no downtime.

 

Simply put, Apple sucks at the cloud. There's no shame in that. They rule at making UX and industrial design, but like with Maps, there something of an egomania to think that they're going to beat someone who's been working on something for 10+ years just because they are good in another area. I see the same thing here with people being delusional about Apple building their own semiconductor fabs. These kinds of endeavors require steady accumulation of institutional knowledge which can't be quickly bought or learned in textbooks.

 

Google isn't perfect, but Apple has a long way to go before they can match either Google or Amazon.

post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

On the downside, it's also a way to lose customers.  Imagine if eBay or Amazon or MasterCard was brought down for hours each time something new was added.  A lot of potential buyers would just skip past to another source.

 
[...]
 

The upshot is, obviously it's possible to do updates with taking a store site down.   It all depends on how much the company cares about availability, or what their intention is.

 

 

I believe it is safe to assume that this famous sticker telling people new products are about to hit the store is done on purpose. Not only does it get people excited, but it also lets the world's media go crazy and report about Apple potentially posting something new to their store. And that's completely free advertising.

 

At the same time I don't believe your theory of losing customers applies to Apple, since unlike Amazon or eBay, Apple sells only a handful of products and all of their significant products (read: non accessories) are their own. Therefore this strategy makes sense, people get excited and they are looking for updated Macs.

 

Now obviously this strategy wouldn't work for Amazon, considering their range of products and the fact that most products are actually sold by third parties through Amazon's system. If there was a downtime for every update, the site would never be available. Also, I doubt there is this much a cult, hype or anticipation or some third party online trader posting some new vacuum cleaner.

post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

Nice bullshit conspiracy theory, but I'm well aware of Google's downtimes, Google even has an AppStatus Dashboard (http://www.google.com/appsstatus) which Apple copied (http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/ notice the DevCenter is not listed) which shows the history of downtime. Google has never had a 3-day downtime on one of their major services, the worst they've ever had was a small slice of gmail users being unable to see their inboxes which had to be restored from tape backup. Google's system is high-replication multi-datacenter + tape backup, you could drop a nuke on one of their datacenters, and the only thing that would happen is things slow down.

 

I mean, why is this a shock? Google is the world's foremost builder of data centers and cloud services, they've been doing it for over a decade, and they have the world's best tools for doing so reliably, and most of their competitors have now taken the research papers they've published on it and implemented similar architectures, with the exception of their revolutionary Spanner system which is too new yet for people to copy.

 

Google's Borg system allows one to deploy an app over hundreds of thousands of server machines, to segment them by version, and even to serve up different versions to different users, different geo-ips, etc, so updating a site is trivial, in fact, Google pushes out updates continuously to their sites. They've also unfathomable amounts of data between radically different storage backends without taking the system down. Like I said, they migrated their entire web crawler index with no downtime.

 

Simply put, Apple sucks at the cloud. There's no shame in that. They rule at making UX and industrial design, but like with Maps, there something of an egomania to think that they're going to beat someone who's been working on something for 10+ years just because they are good in another area. I see the same thing here with people being delusional about Apple building their own semiconductor fabs. These kinds of endeavors require steady accumulation of institutional knowledge which can't be quickly bought or learned in textbooks.

 

Google isn't perfect, but Apple has a long way to go before they can match either Google or Amazon.

 

 

Not sure I completely agree with all of your statements. Of course you're right in saying that Amazon and Google are pioneers and leaders when it comes to online services and associated infrastructure, which is also part of their enterprise product portfolio.

 

However, I wouldn't generalise and say that Apple wouldn't be able to replicate this and come up with similar systems, which they might have to in the future anyway, considering their iCloud and iWork online push.

 

Apple has entered markets where there were established competitors multiple times now. When Apple entered the phone market, there were established competitors and leaders for the past 30 years and yet Apple caught them with their pants down and blew them away.

 

Therefore I wouldn't be so quick in saying they will never be as good as Google when it comes to online services or that they will never be able to produce their own chips, which they design already anyway. And while online services might not be Apple's major market, devices are. It is their bread and butter and they've been building them from the ground up, desiging manufacturing processes for a long time now. Building their own chips, without letting competitors such as Samsung see their designs is exactly what they need.

 

As for Apple Maps, while it might lack Google Maps in some aspects, it also beats it at others. Considering that Apple just came out with their own mapping technology a year ago, I believe it is extremely good, compare this to what Google had when they came out with their maps.

 

Obviously you can't overturn a market over night, without many years or preparation and development (such as the iPhone). But I think underestimating Apple, especially when they're committed to something is the biggest mistake one can make.

post #30 of 42

"However, I wouldn't generalise and say that Apple wouldn't be able to replicate this and come up with similar systems, which they might have to in the future anyway, considering their iCloud and iWork online push."

 

I wouldn't say Apple can't catch Google or Amazon in cloud services, only that it will take time. I mean, Google Maps has 7,000 people working on it, with a custom car fleet and custom designed sensors they've been iterating on for a long time, plus a mature tool chain for handling map feedback and crowdsourcing (MapMaker). You can't acquire a few rinky-dink startups and cobble together third party data and expect it to be the same quality overnight.

 

Google's been building data centers for 10 years, with custom hardware, down to the network switches and storage systems, they've got 13 of them now, Apple has just 3. Apple can catch up, but it will take time to gain the experience, unless they were to poach away all of Google's core infrastructure people.

 

 

post #31 of 42
post #32 of 42
This just in on other web sites

"Last Thursday, an intruder attempted to secure personal information of our registered developers from our developer website. Sensitive personal information was encrypted and cannot be accessed, however, we have not been able to rule out the possibility that some developers’ names, mailing addresses, and/or email addresses may have been accessed. In the spirit of transparency, we want to inform you of the issue. We took the site down immediately on Thursday and have been working around the clock since then.

In order to prevent a security threat like this from happening again, we’re completely overhauling our developer systems, updating our server software, and rebuilding our entire database. We apologize for the significant inconvenience that our downtime has caused you and we expect to have the developer website up again soon."
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post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.


Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.

As usual, sweetly anti Apple and negative.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Errm, the Apple Store has been down many times over the past year, so the downtime is higher.  Basically every time there's been a product update.  

However, as others have commented, perhaps the Apple Store updates are done crudely on purpose, to build excitement for those who like to line up for things. It does have a bit of retro charm 1smile.gif


On the downside, it's also a way to lose customers.  Imagine if eBay or Amazon or MasterCard was brought down for hours each time something new was added.  A lot of potential buyers would just skip past to another source.

 
In any event, I can't see any good reason to do the same for the Apple Developer's network.

--

Half of my career has been spent helping to design high availability / fast recovery systems for casinos and phone companies.

Carriers and other utilities popularized the idea of the Five Nines  (99.999% availability, or less than five minutes downtime a year).  Nobody wants their phones or power taken down just for updates.  Casinos need 24/7 availability or they lose revenue... not to mention that losing customer credit information in today's digital gambling terminals due to a system failure, is simply not an option.

Of course, such high availability is expensive.  It requires redundant installations, long term backup power, dedicated communication lines, geographic failover plans, and a staff available all the time.  In many cases, an exact duplicate of the production system is built in an off-site building, where software updates can be tested before installation into production.  Many paid testers are involved.  (It's also a bit like NASA.  If a failure occurs in production, you can try to simulate the problem and test fixes in the duplicate system.)

--

The upshot is, obviously it's possible to do updates with taking a store site down.   It all depends on how much the company cares about availability, or what their intention is.

You really should offer your expertise to Apple instead of the constant, if subtle, attacks. I am sure they would leap at the chance to hire one so obviously more knowledgeable and brilliant than anyone they have on their team thus far.
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post #35 of 42
I just got an email from Apple concerning this.  Looks like their developer website was hacked, and some developer personal info could have been taken.  Here is the content of the email:
 
Quote:
Last Thursday, an intruder attempted to secure personal information of our registered developers from our developer website. Sensitive personal information was encrypted and cannot be accessed, however, we have not been able to rule out the possibility that some developers’ names, mailing addresses, and/or email addresses may have been accessed. In the spirit of transparency, we want to inform you of the issue. We took the site down immediately on Thursday and have been working around the clock since then.
 
In order to prevent a security threat like this from happening again, we’re completely overhauling our developer systems, updating our server software, and rebuilding our entire database. We apologize for the significant inconvenience that our downtime has caused you and we expect to have the developer website up again soon.
post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Apple is astonishingly bad at updating internet applications.

Many other companies' IT departments are able to swap working versions on the fly, and to quickly fall back to the old version if necessary.


Apple, instead, has server down time... even for their store.
 
As usual, sweetly anti Apple and negative.

But it's true, isn't it?

post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You really should offer your expertise to Apple instead of the constant, if subtle, attacks. I am sure they would leap at the chance to hire one so obviously more knowledgeable and brilliant than anyone they have on their team thus far.

God forbid anybody come here with expertise and pick on Apple. Heretic.
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post #38 of 42

Dev center was hacked.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

But it's true, isn't it?

You have to look at the rest of this dear chap's posts and put them all together to see the pattern. Continuous, subtle anti-Apple comments and sorry, it brings the defensiveness out in me. 1smile.gif
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post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


You have to look at the rest of this dear chap's posts and put them all together to see the pattern. Continuous, subtle anti-Apple comments and sorry, it brings the defensiveness out in me. 1smile.gif

He (she) also posts pro-Apple material. Typically, he can back up what he posts. Maybe I'm misguided, but I like KD's balanced approach. There are some folks here who just make up stuff, whether they are for or against Apple. He's not one of them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


God forbid anybody come here with expertise and pick on Apple. Heretic.
 
I don't think KD "picks" on Apple. But I agree, as mentioned above, he posts facts or at least informed opinions, as opposed to establishing a position and then cherry-picking headlines to support himself.
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