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Editorial: The mysterious failure of Microsoft's Surface RT - Page 6

post #201 of 321
I started with a windows phone that used a stylus years ago. Later I moved onto Android and after two android phones had enough because of the atrocious lack of timely updates. So I moved on to iPhones and eventually an iPad and couldn't be happier. I do have a strong interest in Microsoft products and in fact have been trained in windows as far back as NT 4. But after my experience with Android updates I decided to not jump on the new phones running WP7. That ended up being a great decision when Microsoft made the decision to not spend the money to port WP8 to work on the processors used in WP7. Remember when this decision was made many of these WP7 were only released months before. Well if Microsoft will abandon WP7 customers you can bet that in the future they will likely abandon their tablet customers. Sorry Microsoft no sale here. I will stay with Apple who has proven that they build reliable products that are well supported through out their life cycle. You lost a customer here.
post #202 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


You obviously have a completely mistaken understanding of things.

Making second rate products and copying Apple is not advancing technology at all.

I am at the forefront of technology, using the best tablet in the world. I don't have any time for kickstands or people dancing around like morons or outdated operating systems that take up an obscene amount of RAM.

Exactly! Everyone keeps reiterating the "competition is good" mantra, but doesn't know how it really works. Only when iPad sales are really impacted by a competing tablet, will Apple take notice and start looking into it. 

 

All the competition has been able to do are small and incremental improvements or variations on what Apple has done with the iPad. There was nothing disruptive enough that made people seriously consider the other tablets. Until that happens, Apple will stay in front and likely will also keep improving the iPad incrementally. 

post #203 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by vojislavcar View Post

iPad was not invented - to be tablet with keyboard, and that is main thing MS argues.
For me, it is under the belt, and it is not - truth.
iPad is #1 and it will stay.
Higher price is reflection of better quality and support.

With videoclips like this, MS just confirmed that intelligent man must avoid MS products as a plague.

Is that Number 1 with the middle finger extended just Dana Carvey did in the movie Opportunity Knocks?   That would be appropriate if you think about it.....

 

I some how think that due to the sliding PC business, that MIcrsoft might have to buy up HP and maybe Dell's PC units and discontinue the OEM licensing for the desktop versions of Windows, keep the OEM server business intact and then try to maintain their platform and do what Apple's doing.  That is probably the only way they can grow their Revenues.  Just an idea.  I'm sure that's been and even being discussed.  I wonder how that would impact Apple.

post #204 of 321
I'm not sure what the big debate is about.

Microsoft's entire mobile, post-Apple's-iOS effort has been a complete disaster.

Reasons?

Compare Microsoft's values, what's important to them, to Apple's values, and what's important to Apple.

The companies are vastly different in their philosophies. Microsoft's is ill-suited to the consumer market, especially under current market dynamics. This is nothing new. This sort of confusion and scattered priorities has been characteristic of MS for years now.
post #205 of 321

I didn't think the Surface was that bad.  The Surface RT was pretty worthless in my opinion.  For a laptop replacement the Surface Pro is needed for the corporate environment.  

 

I'm hoping Microsoft won't just give up and instead try again making improvements to the hardware and OS.  With corporations they might find a good following eventually.  Microsoft's cash cows seem to be on a slow spiral down with no near term fix.

post #206 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I didn't think the Surface was that bad.  The Surface RT was pretty worthless in my opinion.  For a laptop replacement the Surface Pro is needed for the corporate environment.  

 

I'm hoping Microsoft won't just give up and instead try again making improvements to the hardware and OS.  With corporations they might find a good following eventually.  Microsoft's cash cows seem to be on a slow spiral down with no near term fix.

If I was a CIO for a corporation that had Microsoft standardized, I wouldn't go with the Surface Pro as a laptop standard.  The thing is a horrible laptop, I would go with a HP Ultrabook as a standard laptop, if I had to stick with Microsoft based laptop, or go with Apple MBwhatever and put Windows on it.

 

It's like a crappy MBAir alternative.. 10 inch screen? yuk

post #207 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I didn't think the Surface was that bad.  The Surface RT was pretty worthless in my opinion.  For a laptop replacement the Surface Pro is needed for the corporate environment.  

 

I'm hoping Microsoft won't just give up and instead try again making improvements to the hardware and OS.  With corporations they might find a good following eventually.  Microsoft's cash cows seem to be on a slow spiral down with no near term fix.

 

You seem to have no idea that corporate USA buys the MBA and either loads Win 7 or leaves OSX on it. Corporate USA is not ready (if ever) to have WIN 8 running anywhere they can avoid it. 

 

Besides, the Surface Pro is a poor laptop and an even poorer tablet. The Surface RT does make a rather decent door stop.

post #208 of 321
The article is pretty fair imo.

Think this sums microsoft's approach up -
I have windows 8 on my tv pc for using steam....recently downloaded the 8.1 preview (the heralded fix)to check it out.....now I understand its a preview and there might be bugs - but it knocked my bluetooth out for 2 weeks so I couldn't even connect my keyboard! Then reinstated my need to enter a password which made the experience all the more ridiculous. Bluetooth drivers, that's pretty basic....an establishes part of the system not a new feature in any way, so in the new rapid release world = complete tardiness in order to get across the new features?

Can you imagine being inside Microsoft and there strategy.....we here rumours of a music player - we're going to do one! We see the ipad, we're going to do one! We've heard about a watch ....we're going to do one! No wonder they're losing direction...they're chasing dreams like a bet on the races without thinking any of it through.

Surface - is that a hidden meaning for shallow experience lol.

I think Xbox 360 and ps3 fail apart from anything for there 7 year cycle. They're seriously outdated. Has to be a record for the tech industry. Do you think someone had a bet on how long they could string it out?

Dont believe the hype either - The new consoles only look next gen compared to the old consoles.
post #209 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

... but the more Microsoft spends on it's tablet the better the iPad will be in the future.

 

Why should that be? The original iPad launched and sold by the truckload without Microsoft or anyone else spending loads on their own tablets.

 

Since its launch, the iPad has got faster, lighter, thinner and a Retina display despite having no real competition to speak of. This "we need loads of competition so that we get the best products" meme may work to describe Samsung, Microsoft, Blackberry, HP and so on but Apple plough their own furrow. And get it right regardless.

post #210 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by koop View Post

Nice tongue in cheek editorial. Such wit and biting sarcasm. I can't contain myself with all this self congratulatory I-told-you-so retrospection. Self restraint and humbleness was so last year anyway.

It's times like this i'm filled with relief that adblock is defaulted to 'on'. I shudder to think i'm providing click revenue to such tripe.

Oh, I'm sorry, are you done comparing the iPad to feminine hygiene products, or did you want to wait till Apple sold another hundred-million, or until Microsoft lost another billion trying to make their knockoff of Apples "useless" product. XD

Your tears taste delicious.
post #211 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

FYI: telling strangers in forums that you "feel sorry for them" is one way to look down on others. You're passing judgment on, not empathizing with, the person/people you are addressing.

You're right. That was just my way of being nasty to people that have been nasty to me ;)

post #212 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by designguybrown View Post

Woah - i have been an Apple fan-boy since the late 80s as a kid,....but....

 

Translation:  "I'm an android zealot, who think's you're so stupid you'll give me credibility by simply claiming to be a "fanboy"."

 

PS-- People who appreciate apple products don't call themselves "fanboys".  That's a derogatory term that those who are incapable of thinking of actual arguments use to characterize them. 

post #213 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessi View Post

 

Translation:  "I'm an android zealot, who think's you're so stupid you'll give me credibility by simply claiming to be a "fanboy"."

 

PS-- People who appreciate apple products don't call themselves "fanboys".  That's a derogatory term that those who are incapable of thinking of actual arguments use to characterize them. 

See, some were fanboys, some still are.

 

I still mainly use Apple products, but I am no longer blind to their competition.

post #214 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoast8 View Post

Since you asked so nicely, I quickly read through it again and copied the obvious sarcasm:


Incredibly, it turned out pretty much nobody wanted to be the guinea pig tasked with beta testing Honeycomb tablets...

The icing on top would be that this new Surface would adopt the Metro user interface...

Surely the third time around would be the Charm, especially if it were forced upon the entire Windows 8 PC audience as well...

Windows users were so graciously welcoming of the even less significant changes bundled with Windows Vista in 2006.

I mean, really. Quite inconceivable.

What a paragon of operational competence that product demonstrates.
post #215 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

I understand you want technology to stand still.  I suppose it makes sense on a psychological point of view.

I'd prefer that you looked at it through a different lens.  Mine may have a bit more estrogen in it, but the more Microsoft spends on it's tablet the better the iPad will be in the future.

I think we should all cheer Microsoft on and encourage them to spend an absorbent amount of money researching what really does work.


I don't see how mocking Microsoft's recurring acts of combined arrogance and incompetence can be construed as wanting technology to stand still.

Nobody is suggesting that Apple's competitors should stop competing. What many of us might suggest is that perhaps some of them (Microsoft in particular) might try to emulate Apple's culture instead of Xeroxing their product features. If any of these companies shifted their strategy to focus on their customers first - as Apple does - and work on products meant to delight those customers instead of products meant primarily to support their internal business priorities and those of their business partners, then maybe we'd see some truly wonderful products out there to compete with Apple's.

Incidentally, I don't get what estrogen has to do with your point of view, unless you're suggesting that being female somehow explains why you're missing the point.
Edited by freediverx - 7/21/13 at 5:50am
post #216 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post

It could just be me but I think this editorial has more sarcasm than most and it somehow cheapens the points raised. I don't disagree with the article but in my opinion it comes across more as a fanboy rant rather than a sensible and intelligent analysis of the situation which it actually is.

While I also prefer a more nuanced writing style, I think the article's tone is secondary to the very strong point it makes about Microsoft's consistent track record of bumbling product introductions wrapped in unbridled hubris. I think this story doesn't get covered enough in these days of lazy and biased tech journalism that continuously parrots corporate hype with minimal fact checking and big picture analysis.
post #217 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

This is almost the epitome of the smarmy attitude that makes many people not want to use Apple products.  Never mind that Apple makes great products, they just don't want be associated with, well... this.

Surface RT is a pretty terrible product on all fronts, and probably is partially responsible for taking their core product, Windows, in a direction many users just don't like.

With Apple having a great product and strong lead in tablets, and Android tablets now being quite good, the path for Microsoft to getting in the market is quite slim.

They need to stop their attack ads on both Google and Apple.  It just makes them look kind of desperate and does not focus on how good their products are.   If they are not focusing on how good their products are- they need to make them good so they have something to focus on 1tongue.gif 


Can you cite some actual examples of Apple statements or ads that convey the "smarmy attitude" you dislike? I don't think it's fair to blame one blogger's exuberance on Apple. I consider Apple's marketing to be very tasteful and reserved. The closest they came to attack ads was their "Mac vs. PC" campaign which was highly successful and used a bumbling but likable character to portray the "PC".

As you later pointed out, it's Apple's competitors (Samsung, Microsoft, etc.) who are known for smarmy attack ads.
post #218 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

Is complex supposed to be a good thing in your reference? I see it that MS doesn't know how to create anything that for the user isn't overly complex, mostly for no good reason. Consumers, and I mean all aspects of those consuming including corporate, education, individual, etc., inherently want things to work in a way that gets out of their way, not the other way around. Apple figured this out and MS is stuck making products and software that are anything but intuitive.


Microsoft lacks something Apple has had for years: the ability to say NO. Apple's success doesn't come from including every conceivable feature and function to their products so they can brag about them in a spec sheet. It comes from focusing on the features that matter most and leaving out everything else that can water down the product, even when it means pissing off a few customers. That sort of courage is extremely rare in business today, which is why Apple's story is so different from their competitors'.


“People think focus means saying yes to the thing you’ve got to focus on. But that’s not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I’m actually as proud of the things we haven’t done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying ‘no’ to 1,000 things.”

—Steve Jobs on product development, from "Steve Jobs: Get Rid of the Crappy Stuff" in Forbes.



.
Edited by freediverx - 7/21/13 at 6:36am
post #219 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

"..... and am going to try and find another source for Apple news.

Don't let door hit you on the way out.
post #220 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Consumers want real iPads, not fake iPads.

The real tag line is:

 

"There is no Tablet Market.  There is an iPad Market."

post #221 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

I find it quite humourous and enteraining though. It's not overused since the article is quite a lengthy one, so it's adequately spread out. I had a good chuckle.

Unfortunately, while the author clearly has a very good command of the English language, in that he is able to use just the right words to create clear mental images of the scenarios he is describing, what I find increasingly symptomatic about this article (and the others before it) is that it doesn't really tell me anything I don't already know. Nor does it offer an manner of in-depth analysis or insight. For example, it go to great lengths to gloat about how the RT failed, but doesn't really explain why. I have my own theories, but it would be nice to hear from someone else, in the name of promoting healthy discourse. 

I thought the article was quite clear on the reasons why the Surface RT failed. You might want to give it another read. Or in case you're lazy, here's the relevant quote:

"Microsoft decided to make the world forget about the epic failures of 2010's Slate PC and 2007's Surface bathtub-kiosk by resurrecting the Surface name as a new sort-of convertible tablet device running the "full Windows" without compromise, albeit in a version that couldn't really run Windows software because it was ported to run on ARM chips, whereas all Windows software is designed to run on an x86 chip. The icing on top would be that this new Surface would adopt the Metro user interface that nobody wanted when it was on the Zune, and that nobody wanted when it was on Windows Phone 7."

Summary:
  • Marketed as a "Windows" device while lacking the ability to actually run any Windows software
  • Lack of apps
  • Non-competitive price
  • Metro UI which has not been popular in any of its other applications
  • "convertible" design that's full of compromises in each configuration
  • resurrection of failed product name

The article is tongue in cheek, starting with the title. There is no "mystery" surrounding the Surface RT's failure. Anyone with a bit of common sense could see it as a failure the minute the product's limitations were made apparent. I don't see this as a story about why the Surface RT failed but about how easily the tech media forgets history and fails to hold companies like Microsoft accountable for their bombastic claims.

.
Edited by freediverx - 7/21/13 at 7:04am
post #222 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I still maintain that the Surface RT and the Surface Pro are actually hybrid laptops.  

 

You have to use them in landscape mode, and you have to use the attached (but detachable) keyboard, and you have to put them down on a table to make them even work, or to get the benefits out of them that Microsoft is selling.  They also run desktop software and work best with a mouse.  Sure they tell us it's a tablet, but other than the name I don't see the difference between them and some of Dell's convertible laptops, or the (Acer?) ones with the detachable screen.  

 

Take a look the next time you see someone using one in a coffee shop (if you ever do).  How is the experience any different than just having a laptop with a touchable screen?  

Can you type on it while walking or standing up on the bus?  Can you cruise the web with it on your lap?  No, and no.  (at least not really, and not in practice). 

 

They are fucking laptops, not tablets.  They are screwed up little hybrid laptops for people that want to think they have a tablet, but can't really let go of the past.  

 

If you don't use the desktop app and only use metro apps, wouldn't the Surface RT work like any other tablet? Or are some core apps on the Surface RT only available within the desktop environment?


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 7/21/13 at 7:12am
post #223 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Microsoft lacks something Apple has had for years: the ability to say NO. That sort of courage is extremely rare in business today, which is why Apple's story is so different from their competitors'
.

I think that they just say no to the wrong people and ideas. I'm sure MS has plenty of talented employees with great ideas but they probably get suppressed. The Xbox guys were initially told no but decided to go over everyone's head and bring the idea directly to Bill Gates.
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post #224 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

If you don't use the desktop app and stay within metro, wouldn't the Surface RT work like any other tablet? Or are some core apps on the Surface RT only available within the desktop environment?

There are some 'breaks' ... certain settings that show up on the Desktop only, for example. And the 'old' Desktop is really a 'pita' to use on a (small) touchscreen.
and of course, there aren't enough 'metro' Apps to be able to forget about the Desktop - IMHO.
Actually I quite like Metro on the Surface. It's just absolutely unusable where most people will first meet it: On a Desktop/Notebook without touchscreen.

And if you count office as a core app, that's only available on the desktop...
Edited by sirdir - 7/21/13 at 8:17am
post #225 of 321
Great article as usual. I never leave home without my iPad. I prefer the 9.7 inch over the mini, and take both vacations. I can't wait for the new iPad that is lighter in weight.
The only chance the Surface RT had was if they included the keyboard in the price. That would be true also for the Pro version. Instead they took a keyboard that cost them less than $20 to make, and sold it for over $100. How stupid. They were so out of touch.
post #226 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Trust me, Apple, MS, Google, and FB are all into "Big Data" and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

I never trust anybody who starts a sentence with "Trust me." Tweny years ago, the reflexive cliché for liars was, "Let me be honest with you . . ." Used car salesmen couldn't work without these tools of persuasion.

Now what was it you were saying?
post #227 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

I understand you want technology to stand still.  I suppose it makes sense on a psychological point of view.

Wow, where do you dig that out of what was said. No one said anything about not moving forward. Just that Microsoft didn't pick the right way to do it.
Quote:
I'd prefer that you looked at it through a different lens.  Mine may have a bit more estrogen in it,

Lets keep gender out of this. As a female I am not keen on the sexist slant implied in such comments.
Quote:
but the more Microsoft spends on it's tablet the better the iPad will be in the future.

That might be true if the Surface had any grip. But it doesn't, so why should Apple care about it, try to compete with it etc. Not that they are likely to since that is not their form. But the Surface RT had nothing going for it to make Apple change their game. Same with all those devices announced to it get in before Apple said anything.
post #228 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

The whole point of a vacation though, is not to do any work, and let yourself recharge. I also took only my iPad on my last holiday. But try using it as your only computing device during work time...

It's very possible, depending on what your 'work' is
post #229 of 321
There's nothing mysterious about the failure of the Surface RT. I have one here right now on semi-permanent loan; it's the 64GB version with keyboard cover.

I took it home, after playing with it a little when I was at a conference. The screen is bright and clear; the keyboard works fairly well, given it's a flat piece of rubber with no physical feedback when you hit the keys.

It took me forever just to figure out how to navigate Windows 8; the UI is goofy, the user experience is frustrating and unsatisfactory. Now I'm back home, and the Surface is sitting on a shelf, untouched and unused.

It's obvious to me why no one likes it; it's a mediocre product, but worst of all, Windows 8 is awful. I would sooner go back to Windows XP and all its terrible troubles than use Windows 8 on a daily basis, and having it on a tablet only compounds its inherent flaws.

Spend 5 minutes on a Surface tablet and the "mystery" of its failure will be a mystery no longer.
post #230 of 321

Another so-called 'editorial' serving as a vehicle for DED's self-indulgence in his Apple monomania.

 

Calling this bilge an editorial devalues the whole site.

post #231 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by raylusk View Post

I started with a windows phone that used a stylus years ago. Later I moved onto Android and after two android phones had enough because of the atrocious lack of timely updates.

Which models did you have, and what features were you needing updates to that you were willing to switch ecosystems even after being a repeat customer?

post #232 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by megalaser View Post

What's so mysterious? They released a nice looking but very expensive tablet with an untested desktop OS, plastic keyboard and a low resolution screen that couldn't refresh properly (not smooth when dragging) - Microsoft can only be great again when they stop trying to copy Apple and start innovating. I have no understanding of how Bill Gates can sit and watch what is happening and not come back and take charge again.

Or maybe they need to start copying Apple. Instead of this nonsense of putting a computer OS into tablet form which is weird as heck to use perhaps MS needs to take a hard look at what makes the iPad work for buyers and copy it.

Part of what made the iPad work is that it was designed to be the computer device for those that don't really need a full computer. But with enough added power that if someone wanted to find a way to do more with what they had, go for it. Another part is that Apple created a fork of their OS that fits the form, rather than shoving in a traditional OS and UI and getting it to work with some page clips and duct tape. Having an App Store that could be used with the 2x zoom until developers got their apps to form also didn't hurt.
post #233 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by semanka View Post

That mock funeral is silly and unnecessary. It does not sell! It just involved so many feelings of hate that so many consumers are tired of. Make and sell product that is proven useful, safe, good quality etc. avoid all unnecessary dongles the haters which most of them are inferior and do not know what they really need. And at worst they don't even really represent the real market. It's just amaze me how a high tech Microsoft giant could fall and buy into these inferior market demand?

I believe the term is hubris.

Certainly they may have been hoist on their own petard.
post #234 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


What 'innovation' are we currently lacking in iPads?

Why do you think it's doing so well if 'innovation' is lacking?

 

I don't think "innovation" works like that. I don't think the iPad was born out of "what innovation are we currently lacking in iPhone" thinking. Everyone laughed at it as an overgrown iPod touch when it launched.

 

I like an interesting ecosystem of devices, most of which will fall beside the wayside. I think Windows RT/8 have some nice ideas such as live tiles and a flexible way of dividing the screen between apps so you can do real multitasking.

 

And I did start off by saying that I like my iPad, so I'm hardly an Apple hater.

post #235 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

Never underestimate the bullheaded determination of Microsoft. Windows 1 came out in 1981. It was a disaster. Nobody wanted it. The same was true of Windows 2 in 1987. Windows 3, in 1990, was better, but the first version of Windows that people actually started to use was 3.1, in 1992.

It also got them sued by Apple for possible copyright violation. In the end it was not unlike the final vote in most courts with Samsung etc and iOS. Obvious that MS took design cues from Apple but the majority of the 'copying' didn't qualify as a legal violation.
Edited by charlituna - 7/21/13 at 11:23am
post #236 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


Can you cite some actual examples of Apple statements or ads that convey the "smarmy attitude" you dislike? I don't think it's fair to blame one blogger's exuberance on Apple. I consider Apple's marketing to be very tasteful and reserved. The closest they came to attack ads was their "Mac vs. PC" campaign which was highly successful and used a bumbling but likable character to portray the "PC".

As you later pointed out, it's Apple's competitors (Samsung, Microsoft, etc.) who are known for smarmy attack ads.


Apple's advertising may not convey a "smarmy attitude" but Apple takes digs at the competition as much as the next company. They take digs at competitors during their product presentations. As an example, during the iPad 2 announcement, Steve Jobs said something to the effect of "Will 2011 be the year of the copycats?" Also, Phil Schiller pointed out several things he perceived as weaknesses in competing tablets when he unveiled the iPad Mini.

post #237 of 321

 

 

Quote:
Editorial: The obvious failure of Microsoft's Surface RT

 

There, fixed that for you.

post #238 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Part of what made the iPad work is that it was designed to be the computer device for those that don't really need a full computer.

 

Exactly.  Also, the iPad was done at just the right consumer and technology time, at the right price.  And with a UI meant for fingers.

 

If it had come out before millions of people were aware of smartphones and apps and the web and social networks, or without lots of available broadband (WiFi mostly), and especially if it was not brought out by Apple, or at the right price, few would've paid attention to it.

 

Easy tablets had been talked about, and even tried before.  My favorite example was the Norwegian Freepad, which was designed in the late 1990s and attempted to break into the market in 2000.   It had a 10" screen, stereo speakers, wireless home comms, video conferencing, and touch friendly UI.

 

As the Freepad designer said, "it must be so easy to use, that your grandmother can use it."  He even included a vetted app store.  In so many ways, it was just like the iPad (except it also had telephony), but unfortunately it was a decade too soon, and cost too much.

 
But it had a good idea, which was to target a casual user's needs, something that Apple got right.

Edited by KDarling - 7/21/13 at 9:48am
post #239 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I didn't think the Surface was that bad.  The Surface RT was pretty worthless in my opinion.  For a laptop replacement the Surface Pro is needed for the corporate environment.  

 

I'm hoping Microsoft won't just give up and instead try again making improvements to the hardware and OS.  With corporations they might find a good following eventually.  Microsoft's cash cows seem to be on a slow spiral down with no near term fix.

I don't agree with the laptop replacement.   why not then a laptop?   Corp America still has mainframes... it doesn't deinvest from new technology that quickly.  The race to the bottom has laptops priced the same as the Surface Pro, and there is no learning curve.  For 'replacement,' corporates like plug and play.

 

'Needed' is a strong term.   The iPad (fully touch/motion interface now... evolving to a voice/touch/motion (and likely visual) as Siri and other technologies mature) is a not a replacement but an evolution/confluence like pagers to blackberrys were in the 90's and 00's and into Smart phones now. 

 

The key with iPad in reestablishing eye-hand navigation, vs   memorized key locations and the one off of mousing to move something.   The reason why touch/iOS is working is that it's such a primitive form of human (primate) interaction... see-touch.   Yes, human higher cognition (I'm typing this without looking at the keyboard because I've learned where keys are in relation to each other) allows more complicated interaction, but freeing ourselves from that rote skill allows our minds to do other things, and allow us to 'work' in our environment with less start up knowledge investment.

 

 

 

BTW, IBM got out of the PC business at nearly their peak.  MS is trying to be a 'startup' within a corporate culture that has got lucky one 30 years ago in its startup mode.  Other than Xbox which took 8 years of 'angel funding' to break even, MS has had a horrible record on launching (not buying) new products/divisions.    The corporate money is in consulting and outsourcing data center services.   Microsoft would do well to do the same, and just be the best MS 'backoffice' consulting firm in the world, spin off office365.com as a standalone company, and plan on the obsolescence of windows as a real tangible product (windows as a cloud service... yes. as a SKU at bestbuy or a corporate license... no).

post #240 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

You seem to have no idea that corporate USA buys the MBA and either loads Win 7 or leaves OSX on it. Corporate USA is not ready (if ever) to have WIN 8 running anywhere they can avoid it. 

 

Besides, the Surface Pro is a poor laptop and an even poorer tablet. The Surface RT does make a rather decent door stop.

 

That may be true at some companies but is not the trend with buying Macs and putting Win7 on it.  The last two employers I've been with (one 50k employees and my current of 6k) allow executives to run what they pretty much want to.  That has required Exchange 2010 to support the Macs that the execs claim they need. If they want the latest Dell XPS transforming laptop or a Surface then they can get that.

 

Windows 8 is a requirement to run RSAT (remote server administration tools), so I'm not sure where you get your information from.  When deploying Windows Server 2012 that is a must to have especially if your domain controllers are on 2012 as ours are.  Corporate USA is ready when they are willing to invest in migrating.  If there's no compelling reason then XP or Windows 7 is fine - hopefully the latter.  BTW, my current employer is about half Macs.

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