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Editorial: The mysterious failure of Microsoft's Surface RT - Page 2

post #41 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


I think DED would have to write a book to answer your more in depth request, maybe he has, I'd buy it. I think it is of value to keep reminding people, who seem to have very short memories, what just happened, at a relatively simple level. After all it is countering pretty simple negative attacks mostly. The sad thing is so few who should, will ever see it. I use Reader to send stuff from DED like this, to as many people i know, that worry Apple is about to go bust after reading CNET et al.

It doesn't even have to be a thesis. Simply cut down on the snark, and summarise the counterarguments to some of the more popular criticisms into a few bullet points. People like to point out how the ipad lacks true multitasking, has no ports, expandable memory, is closed, overpriced, requires expensive peripherals to connect to other devices, lacks mouse support (really?!?) and so on. 

 

Instead, the question everyone should be asking is " The ipad remains popular despite all these perceived limitations. What exactly is the rationale behind this?" For all the criticism, it is an undeniable fact that the ipad is selling, and selling well because it works great and clearly resonates with buyers. Yet the way everyone glosses over this point and hails every new tablet entrant as the next ipad killer, you would think we are either still in early 2010 or in some alternate universe where the ipad never became a success. 

 

What they fail to understand is that the ipad is so successful because it represents a holistic combination of software and hardware working together in harmony to create a great user experience for the consumer, and this matters more than simply being a laundry list of specs and features. I could go on, but I believe I would simply be preaching to the choir here. 

post #42 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


Well that's just you. I like sarcasm, and this POS tablet deserves to be mocked and so does anybody who defended this POS tablet on this forum in the past.

This was an obvious flop from the very beginning and anybody who didn't see that is extremely out of touch.

 

Indeed.  I think this was a great article and the sarcasm was done very well this time.

IMO it came across more funny and less mean or petty, which is always a danger with sarcasm. 

 

I find that remark from Microsoft's Brian Hall abut the "flywheel of recommendation" especially telling.  It's tantamount to a direct admission that their products generally are small potatoes and rely on the inertia of market dominance to "get rolling" sort of speak. 

post #43 of 321
DED, this analysis is phenomenally astute. Not only do you take off the gloves, as usual, the boxers are shuttled, the boots sit in the locker, and you speak with a roar that buries the apologetic, the weak of will, who shamelessly dare to prattle on in the language of dishonesty. This report illuminates the reality that Is Apple and the disingenuous rattle that is Microsoft and its kith. It sings out in high style with a light show to dazzle even the die hard troll. I had to wring my laughing towel out through the whole read and scared the wee lad from my knee, twice, but twice he climbed back on board, enthused by my mirth. (His nick name is 'The DED' and he is fearless.)

Continue to stand tall against the dearth of true analysts who lack the bollocks to look at facts and fight with you against the rabble who whine from their desperate dark caverns of contrivance to appease the weary and sightless naysaying troll. Keep up the great work that sets demanding standards for the fearless to follow. At least at AI honesty reigns and the strong rally on to hold back the tides of lies from the Uriah Heeps that plague the tech world of reporting. 1smoking.gif

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply
post #44 of 321
I have to tell you that I just finished a medical residency & used my iphone for everything including word processing with pages & presentations with keynote. I presented lectures & projects created on my iPad and iPhone in auditoriums from my iPhone or iPad with an 8 pin to VGA adaptor. The only time I ever needed to use a PC was with legacy crap in flash that was in the institutions system. But just before I left, I saw residents running around with iPad minis using Citrix receiver to access all that windows crap at the bedside. So yea, it's over for windows unless there is a sea change and a focus on intense craftsmanship.
post #45 of 321
"After getting its teeth kicked out by the iPod, the iPhone and now the iPad, you'd think the company would realize that it needs to stop repeating its me-too strategies that clearly don't work and try something new: focusing on what it's good at, rather than being a terrible copy of Apple."

I thought being, "a terrible copy of Apple," is what Microsoft is good at! It's been their M.O. since Windows launched!
post #46 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarry de View Post

The Surface isn't an iPad copy nor a software copy. It's still a complex MS Solution. iPad = one part. Ultra book like the Air = 2 parts (Computer + screen) but the most complex thing is a Surface = 3 parts.

It's incredible but nobody else can deliver the most complex solutions but Microsoft. This dissatisfied customers and in the opposite Apple reduce reduce reduce!

 

I tend to agree.  The Surface RT is slow, but it isn't that bad, and the hardware is weird (more of a hybrid laptop than a tablet at all), but it's fairly well built.  After playing with it a bit and listening to others remarks after they used it, I think it's exactly the fact that it tries to be two things at once that dooms it.  The whole Windows/Office part was a colossal mistake.  Without those design constraints, it could be a full, real tablet and operate in portrait as well as landscape mode.  Instead of being a crappy, slow small-screen laptop, it could have been a reasonably snappy alternative tablet.  When you are just using the Metro part, it's actually quite smooth and responsive.  

post #47 of 321
Microsoft just need to run their own race. Obsessed with beating their competition (and mocking them) they are losing each and every time.
The recent try to be all in one on across all platforms was a bit like trying to boil the ocean - on mobile because it was baked full of promise as being windows when it's not and still be a chunky install. The desktop got lumbered with the metro screen and start screen. I'm sure the reason they are sticking with it is because of their App Store and the tiles the downloaded apps use. Blinded by simply viewing apple and racing without working out where they are going isnt right..,..and now Balmer's answer is rapid release ....or is that reactionary release..

I liked the idea of surface and Microsoft doing hardware, but it's just not thought out properly. those ads with the snap the keyboard and kick the stand dance routine were just manic...I know what they were trying to show, but it didn't work at all. Then having a strategy of dissing an ipad, the product that made the market and leading it very well makes them lose credibility. I thought they were funny, but better positioned as you tube wannabes poking fun at something that can't really be knocked. Comparing is probably the worst thing they could have done - delivering a better windows experience across devices would serve them better.
post #48 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post

I like the editorials, but I'd prefer less sarcasm.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post


It could just be me but I think this editorial has more sarcasm than most and it somehow cheapens the points raised. I don't disagree with the article but in my opinion it comes across more as a fanboy rant rather than a sensible and intelligent analysis of the situation which it actually is.

 

Could you please point out the sarcastic statements in this editorial?
post #49 of 321
I look forward to the companion article on Google with Project Glass.
post #50 of 321
Another thing, during the Surface announcement last July they spent most of their time talking about the design of the hardware, and very little about actually using the software. And when Sinofsky did use the software it didn't work.
post #51 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I tend to agree.  The Surface RT is slow, but it isn't that bad, and the hardware is weird (more of a hybrid laptop than a tablet at all), but it's fairly well built.  After playing with it a bit and listening to others remarks after they used it, I think it's exactly the fact that it tries to be two things at once that dooms it.  The whole Windows/Office part was a colossal mistake.  Without those design constraints, it could be a full, real tablet and operate in portrait as well as landscape mode.  Instead of being a crappy, slow small-screen laptop, it could have been a reasonably snappy alternative tablet.  When you are just using the Metro part, it's actually quite smooth and responsive.  
But how does that compete with iPad and cheap Android tablets? Fact is the market place isn't hurting for tablets. iPad and Android tablets do what most people want so what would be the hook to get them to chose Microsoft instead?
post #52 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

DED, this analysis is phenomenally astute. Not only do you take off the gloves, as usual, the boxers are shuttled, the boots sit in the locker, and you speak with a roar that buries the apologetic, the weak of will, who shamelessly dare to prattle on in the language of dishonesty. This report illuminates the reality that Is Apple and the disingenuous rattle that is Microsoft and its kith. It sings out in high style with a light show to dazzle even the die hard troll. I had to wring my laughing towel out through the whole read and scared the wee lad from my knee, twice, but twice he climbed back on board, enthused by my mirth. (His nick name is 'The DED' and he is fearless.)

Continue to stand tall against the dearth of true analysts who lack the bollocks to look at facts and fight with you against the rabble who whine from their desperate dark caverns of contrivance to appease the weary and sightless naysaying troll. Keep up the great work that sets demanding standards for the fearless to follow. At least at AI honesty reigns and the strong rally on to hold back the tides of lies from the Uriah Heeps that plague the tech world of reporting. 1smoking.gif

 

This is his mum speaking, right?  1smile.gif

post #53 of 321

Woah - i have been an Apple fan-boy since the late 80s as a kid, and have had large spans of contempt for many of Microsoft's business strategies and products, but i think it may be going too far to treat them as a bunch of bumbling stooges. Luckily for Apple, the market that they have nurtured has been far more fickle than they deserve and Apple's fan base has been a bit too dreamy-eyed, monied, and obsessive than any company deserves - but you are tempting the great worldly Karma forces by bullying them so, much deserved or not. I seem to remember a certain comment (legend or not) by a certain scifi super-star to/about a huge audience of starry-eyed geeks about their value as obsessed dorks in real-life relationships - and how passionate positive can flip to passionate negative without the benefit of neutral, common sense, or 10-second time-outs. We might be careful because Apple may become the new George Lucas, hated out of proportion more for his betrayal of something originally beautiful than ever loved for the timeless originals themselves.

post #54 of 321
Lots of great content here, but the thick sarcasm detracts from your story. Maybe I'm an officer in the fun police...
post #55 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Making second rate products and copying Apple is not advancing technology at all.

There have been MS tablets for years, so how are they copying Apple?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #56 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


But how does that compete with iPad and cheap Android tablets? Fact is the market place isn't hurting for tablets. iPad and Android tablets do what most people want so what would be the hook to get them to chose Microsoft instead?

 

I'm not saying it would have worked, but just that the thing that doomed it was the (probably enforced by Balmer from the top) inclusion of Office and Windows desktop.  As long as you stay in the Metro part it works okay, and it would have at least had as much chance as Windows Phone has against iPhone.  

 

This is sacrilege to Microsoft of course and probably wouldn't have ever happened because Microsoft won't ship a product that can't run Office.  If I was them however, I would have waited until Surface Pro was ready, released that as is, and at the same time released Windows Surface RT without Office at all, as a cheap alternative "tablet only" and "Metro only" device.  As it stands, all the Surface products are really hybrid laptops and Microsoft still doesn't even have a true tablet in the game.  

 

You are probably right that this would likely have been just a different variety of fail, but at least it would have been a sensible strategy and I bet there would be more sales and no need to discount it later. 

 

I would further guess that if the RT survives to a second iteration at all, they will do exactly that.  All it needs is an ARM front end for Office 360 (which they are building for iOS already) and they can dump the "legacy desktop" altogether.  

post #57 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


There have been MS tablets for years, so how are they copying Apple?

 

Those were essentially copies of the Apple Newton. 

post #58 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by designguybrown View Post

Woah - i have been an Apple fan-boy since the late 80s as a kid, and have had large spans of contempt for many of Microsoft's business strategies and products, but i think it may be going too far to treat them as a bunch of bumbling stooges. Luckily for Apple, the market that they have nurtured has been far more fickle than they deserve and Apple's fan base has been a bit too dreamy-eyed, monied, and obsessive than any company deserves - but you are tempting the great worldly Karma forces by bullying them so, much deserved or not. I seem to remember a certain comment (legend or not) by a certain scifi super-star to/about a huge audience of starry-eyed geeks about their value as obsessed dorks in real-life relationships - and how passionate positive can flip to passionate negative without the benefit of neutral, common sense, or 10-second time-outs. We might be careful because Apple may become the new George Lucas, hated out of proportion more for his betrayal of something originally beautiful than ever loved for the timeless originals themselves.

This guy?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #59 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

Now, what is strange is that so few pundits will do that. All the tech press should be out with pitchforks on the RT, but . . . nothing !

Tried Google?  Searching for "Windows RT failure" turns up more than 5 million hits:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Windows+RT+failure

post #60 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

The whole point of a vacation though, is not to do any work, and let yourself recharge. I also took only my iPad on my last holiday. But try using it as your only computing device during work time...

I wonder if this article was written on an iPad....

post #61 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Another thing, during the Surface announcement last July they spent most of their time talking about the design of the hardware, and very little about actually using the software. And when Sinofsky did use the software it didn't work.

 

Yeah, that was a cringeworthy moment for sure.  I thought Sinofsky looked like scared, like he knew that the product wasn't ready and was likely to fail.  Then it did!

post #62 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix View Post

... I’d sure love to hear—objectively—how more estrogen could improve this discourse or an optical device….

 

Oestrogen improves everything. 

post #63 of 321
What's so mysterious? They released a nice looking but very expensive tablet with an untested desktop OS, plastic keyboard and a low resolution screen that couldn't refresh properly (not smooth when dragging) - Microsoft can only be great again when they stop trying to copy Apple and start innovating. I have no understanding of how Bill Gates can sit and watch what is happening and not come back and take charge again.
post #64 of 321

The only mysterious parts is how they managed to get a decent ad out with it....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Those were essentially copies of the Apple Newton. 

Original tablet (MS versus Apple only) was running Windoze.  Sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers#Early_tablets


-QAMF


Edited by QAMF - 7/20/13 at 8:02am

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post #65 of 321
Good editorial, Microsoft is trying to stop the sloping of 10+ years of success. The market is switching towards apple as the main computer saler, then google the little one!

To bad Steve did not get to see apple at its high point.
post #66 of 321
I don't think it's that mysterious. I think that they under executed on it, and it cost them. I think that there are two ways that they could have done it, and still competed with Apple.

1. Low end. Same model, launch at $349 or and include the Type or Touch cover for $50 more. The Type Cover especially is nice - really great keyboard. At $399 - $100 less than the bottom rung iPad - I think it would be reasonably compelling as a get work done machine.

2. Higher end. Same model, but with a good screen, at $499 with a $50 Type or Touch cover. Now in lock step with the iPad, I think it would have done alright.

The surface hardware is actually really nice - as I've said before, it feels like a tablet that's not an iPad knockoff - except the screen is somewhere around the original iPad. I was genuinely interested in picking one up, but I couldn't get over how bad text looked on it (which is to say, how bad text looked on it compared to a modern iPad or Retina MacBook), and it was maybe $100 too expensive.

The other problem I think is one that Microsoft has had for ages - OEMs releasing low quality devices - but I'm not sure that was a huge deal in this case, as the weaker tablets seem to have come out more recently

Finally, Windows 8 is so half baked it's not even funny. I like Metro as a metaphor, and the Windows 7 desktop isn't bad, but Microsoft decided to take 75% of each of those, put them together and call it done. It feels unpredictable, makes the workflow for equivalent tasks different, and you never know what UI paradigm you'll be in when you launch a new app. Windows 8.1 seems better in this regard.

Really though, I would still consider getting a Surface 2, if it ever comes out and fixes some of my complaints, but it would be in addition to my iPad. Microsoft seems more promising than Android on the tablet front, but they've got a ways to go.
post #67 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by huffcw View Post

I may be in the minority, but after spending some time with Windows 8 have found myself really liking it. I spouted a lot of hate for Windows 8 until I actually gave a true and fair chance by actually using it for a bit of time (not just trying it for few minutes in a store). I have been gravitating to my Lenovo Twist laptop/tablet hybrid over both my iPad and MacBook a lot lately. And when I am on my MacBook or iPad, I miss some of the ways that the Windows 8 tile interface works (I know -- it's crazy, but once I got used to the interface it started to feel natural to me and then by mistake I try to do some of the same things on my other devices).

 

With all that said, I fully acknowledge the current shortcomings:

 

  • I am using full Windows 8 - and would be missing some key programs and functionality I need on the RT version or by staying in the tile interface alone.  So until the Windows store is fully stocked with apps that provide the full spectrum of needed features in the tile interface, the platform will continue to feel like it has a split personality. However, with that said, it does provide more versatility than an iPad (can use it for things I previously had to put down my iPad for and reach for my MacBook to do instead).
  • I am not sure about the Surface, but my Lenovo Twist takes a full six seconds to wake from sleep. Doesn't sound like a lot, but once you get used to the instant on of the iPad or almost instant on of the MacBook Air, those six seconds feel very long. Although once it does wake, it's just as snappy as any other device I have.
  • There is more of a learning curve with Windows 8 compared to an iPad. Although, it's not as bad as most people make it out to be (if you have half a brain and give it more than two minutes, it quickly becomes easy and natural). Yes, I am someone who enjoys technology so probably have a bit easier time than the general population. But I did test this out with my 70-year old mother who is not tech savvy at all -- and just like me, after using Windows 8 for  a short amount of time, it felt easy and natural to her. While I do get calls from her from time-to-time for help -- it's no more frequent than when she was using an iPad and couldn't figure out how to change a setting or do something very specific on it. Ultimately she is happy with Windows 8 over the iPad because for not too much more money she has something she can use like a tablet but do things on she couldn't do with just an iPad. 

 

I still love my iPad and MacBook, but I have a place for Windows 8 in my house too. My kids end up using the Lenovo a lot too over the iPad because they were able to setup their own accounts and customize the tiles to what they like and the apps they want to use (as well as the colors, backgrounds, etc.) There isn't an option for multiple users on an iPad like this.

 

There is still a lot that can be done to make Windows 8 better, but the bashing and acting like it is not a viable option (or potential competition for Apple in the long-term) is ridiculous.

 

This reads like an astroturfing post.  I mean you cover all the points MS says to in their guidelines on it. 

 

- slight criticism of MS product just to show you're "fair" (but ensure to end or bookend each one of those statements with a positive.)

- slight praise of Apple's products (but be sure to end or bookend with slight criticism.)

- claim that "regular person" (grandma, kid) can use it and actually likes it

- overall impression is definitely "thumbs up"

- caveat that your a tech person (cause the audience will know anyway), that sets you up as "different," but also an expert (without having to say you're an expert)

- formatted in MS Word

 

In short, the humble but open-minded expert with the contrary opinion.  Barf. 

post #68 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Yeah, that was a cringeworthy moment for sure.  I thought Sinofsky looked like scared, like he knew that the product wasn't ready and was likely to fail.  Then it did!
Another thing, they rarely ever show the device being used in portrait orientation. A lot of people use tablets as e-book readers. The Surface, always being shown in landscape orientation and with the kickstand out and the keyboard attached didn't make it look like a thin and light tablet you could just pick up and read like a book or easily take on the go.
post #69 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post
...

Original tablet (MS versus Apple only) was running Windoze.  Sorry.

 

I meant only that the success of platforms like Newton (and Palm that followed/copied it), was the reason Microsoft tried the Tablet computer at all.  Palm devices in particular were wildly popular at Microsoft headquarters and used by many of the top execs just before the Windows pen computing and tablet initiatives.  Bill Gates was a prime mover and a big fan of Palm. 


Edited by Gazoobee - 7/20/13 at 8:38am
post #70 of 321

Perhaps I missed some detail, but the article doesn't seem to assert any specific reason for the Surface RT's failure beyond pricing and "it's not a good product." 

 

I don't think UX is the main issue. The Metro interface is optimized for touch, to the detriment of mouse and keyboard users staring at 27 inch displays. And as others in this forum have commented, it's quite snappy and not hard to learn. Depending on your tastes, you might even find the minimalist look attractive.

 

Besides pricing, the main problem has always been the lack of key apps compared to iOS and Android. It is perhaps unreasonable to expect Windows RT to have the same app ecosystem as the other two platforms because it launched only a year ago. But the reality is that when you enter a market as late as Microsoft did with the smartphone and tablet market, you won't win many customers by offering a product as good as what your competitors had three years ago. People judge your product based on what your competitors have today. Although the Windows store has been slowly adding titles over the past year, it is still missing key software that people take for granted on iOS and Android, such as Google apps. And as long as people don't use Windows RT, developers won't want to write and maintain code for that platform.

post #71 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I'm not saying it would have worked, but just that the thing that doomed it was the (probably enforced by Balmer from the top) inclusion of Office and Windows desktop.  As long as you stay in the Metro part it works okay, and it would have at least had as much chance as Windows Phone has against iPhone.  

This is sacrilege to Microsoft of course and probably wouldn't have ever happened because Microsoft won't ship a product that can't run Office.  If I was them however, I would have waited until Surface Pro was ready, released that as is, and at the same time released Windows Surface RT without Office at all, as a cheap alternative "tablet only" and "Metro only" device.  As it stands, all the Surface products are really hybrid laptops and Microsoft still doesn't even have a true tablet in the game.  

You are probably right that this would likely have been just a different variety of fail, but at least it would have been a sensible strategy and I bet there would be more sales and no need to discount it later. 

I would further guess that if the RT survives to a second iteration at all, they will do exactly that.  All it needs is an ARM front end for Office 360 (which they are building for iOS already) and they can dump the "legacy desktop" altogether.  
How about Microsoft making simplified touch versions of Office and selling them on App Store and Google Play? Office is the product line that brings in the most revenue for Microsoft these days. Of course doing that would mean they're willing to screw Windows. But as it is right now people are buying iPads and Android tablets over Windows offerings. At least this way Microsoft could get some Office subscription revenue. Now they get nothing. Perhaps it will happen with this new org structure as Windows and Office will no longer be competing with each other.
post #72 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

That 52% figure is extremely dodgy and I think you know it. I guess that's why you link to your own blog rather than the original source of the figure.

The Xbox 360 has been profitable since 2008. That's five years ago. The Xbox 360's division reported 8% sale growth this quarter.

 

I guess it depends how you measure success.


Microsoft spent four tough years with the original Xbox in which it operated the division at a big loss — reportedly $4 billion over four years — in order to try to gain a foothold in the videogame market. So investors wouldn’t have been pleased if Microsoft said they’d have to wait another generation for the profit to begin flowing.

Though Xbox 360 also operated at a loss for its first few years, Microsoft’s fortunes finally turned in late 2008 when it posted the first net profits for the Entertainment and Devices division (which includes Xbox, Windows Phone, PC gaming and Zune) since its entry into consoles.

It got off to a rough start, though. Xbox 360 faced a $1 billion setback when Microsoft extended the system’s warranty to three years due to the dreaded Red Ring of Death error, resulting in a disastrous $1.9 billion operating loss for the division in 2007.

It will take more time for Microsoft to erase the massive multi-billion dollar loss accrued in the early years, but the division is now profitable and Microsoft is now a major market player.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/04/microsoft-xbox-360-promises/2/

 

As you referenced

Revenue for Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division, which includes Xbox 360 hardware and software sales, grew by 8 percent ($134 million) this quarter, and 6 percent ($566 million) year-on-year.
 

 

     However, the Entertainment and Devices Division includes a lot more products:


Microsoft 

Entertainment and Devices Division

The Entertainment and Devices Division produces the Windows CE OS for embedded systems and Windows Phone forsmartphones.[68] Microsoft initially entered the mobile market through Windows CE for handheld devices, eventually developing into the Windows Mobile OS and now, Windows Phone. Windows CE is designed for devices where the OS may not directly be visible to the end user, in particular, appliances and cars. The division also produces computer games that run on Windows PCs and other systems including titles such as Age of EmpiresHalo and the Microsoft Flight Simulator series, and houses the Macintosh Business Unit which produces Mac OS software including Microsoft Office 2011 for Mac. Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division designs, markets, and manufactures consumer electronics including the Xbox 360 game console, the handheld Zune media player, and the television-based Internet appliance MSN TV. Microsoft also markets personal computer hardware including micekeyboards, and various game controllers such as joysticks and gamepads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Entertainment_and_Devices_Division

post #73 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I meant only that the success of platforms like Newton (and Palm that followed/copied it), was the reason Microsoft tried the Tablet computer at all.  Palm devices in particular were wildly popular at Microsoft headquarters and used by many of the top execs just before the Windows pen computing and tablet initiatives.  Bill Gates was a prime mover and a big fan of Palm. 

Yup, I'll gladly accept and agree with that. :)
Just not that Tablet's were first done by Apple.

I wish Palm (OS) had stayed alive....
EDIT: I wish Bill Gates had bought Palm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


How about Microsoft making simplified touch versions of Office and selling them on App Store and Google Play? Office is the product line that brings in the most revenue for Microsoft these days. Of course doing that would mean they're willing to screw Windows. But as it is right now people are buying iPads and Android tablets over Windows offerings. At least this way Microsoft could get some Office subscription revenue. Now they get nothing. Perhaps it will happen with this new org structure as Windows and Office will no longer be competing with each other.

Nope, Microsoft wants the lock in.  They cannot get a lock in with people using it on those devices.  EDIT: therefor I doubt they will do it.

Also, I don't know about the iPhone 5 (have not used it for over 5-10 minutes total) but I would not want to use it on older ones.  That is based on my experience using Microsoft Office on Lumia 920, it really is just enough room (imo, ofc) and that is 4.5 inch screen.

Dunno, would be interesting to see!

-QAMF

note: edited in a note (bolded)


Edited by QAMF - 7/20/13 at 8:53am

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post #74 of 321
The problem that Microsoft has that apple doesn't is apps. when people think windows they think x86 apps. Microsoft made a mistake by not making their lower price surface have an atom chip in it.

While an atom chip runs full blown x86 apps like photoshop slow it runs other things that run on an arm processor faster.

Apple has the luxury of doing something and people having to accept it. Apple can change the architecture of the ipad and tell people oh well just buy all your apps again. Microsoft can't do that.

Microsofts next cheap surface should just be a baytrail surface. they can stil l price it the same but it would run everybody's windows apps and still get great battery life.

A lot of these articles don't get down to the true problem. The whole reason to stay in the windows eco system is to use the programs you already have.
post #75 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

It doesn't even have to be a thesis. Simply cut down on the snark, and summarise the counterarguments to some of the more popular criticisms into a few bullet points. People like to point out how the ipad lacks true multitasking, has no ports, expandable memory, is closed, overpriced, requires expensive peripherals to connect to other devices, lacks mouse support (really?!?) and so on. 

Instead, the question everyone should be asking is " The ipad remains popular despite all these perceived limitations. What exactly is the rationale behind this?" For all the criticism, it is an undeniable fact that the ipad is selling, and selling well because it works great and clearly resonates with buyers. Yet the way everyone glosses over this point and hails every new tablet entrant as the next ipad killer, you would think we are either still in early 2010 or in some alternate universe where the ipad never became a success. 

What they fail to understand is that the ipad is so successful because it represents a holistic combination of software and hardware working together in harmony to create a great user experience for the consumer, and this matters more than simply being a laundry list of specs and features. I could go on, but I believe I would simply be preaching to the choir here. 


We went through the same discussion last week after DED's last master piece. I don't disagree with anything you say other than to say a lot of us partizans here really love the style. So, the solution is DED should wrote two versions, one for the non Apple centric world (I hear there are actually people out there somewhere that don't like Apple 1oyvey.gif) and ones like this for us! 1biggrin.gif

p.s. I kid, I know they'd get linked anyway.
Edited by digitalclips - 7/20/13 at 9:12am
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #76 of 321
I love weekends when I can look forward to some good old fashioned upbeat Apple boosterism. Seriously. Everything I read about Apple elsewhere is of the "Apple is doomed" or "new killer product that will take over for Apple's [fill in the blank]." Were it not for DED I would be walking around with a little black cloud over my head. Thank you for cheering us on
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #77 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

The problem that Microsoft has that apple doesn't is apps. when people think windows they think x86 apps. Microsoft made a mistake by not making their lower price surface have an atom chip in it.

While an atom chip runs full blown x86 apps like photoshop slow it runs other things that run on an arm processor faster.

Apple has the luxury of doing something and people having to accept it. Apple can change the architecture of the ipad and tell people oh well just buy all your apps again. Microsoft can't do that.

Microsofts next cheap surface should just be a baytrail surface. they can stil l price it the same but it would run everybody's windows apps and still get great battery life.

A lot of these articles don't get down to the true problem. The whole reason to stay in the windows eco system is to use the programs you already have.

Windoze RT is not x86... It is ARM....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
-QAMF

Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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post #78 of 321
I have a Surface RT and an iPad. I regularly use both, and I like both. They're basically just different in emphasis. If I want to browse the web, do some email, watch some movies, they're both good choices in my view. If I want to play games, there's clearly a wider choice on the iPad. If I want to do some work, I'd choose the Surface. Although, actually I think Apple did a really good job with iWork on iOS. Clearly, I can play games on the Surface or work on the iPad, I just choose not to.

They both have really good touch-centric interfaces. I find that the Metro interface works nicely, so apps that use it well are enjoyable to use. Unfortunately, many of the Microsoft's first efforts started off a bit weak, but they're getting there. And I remember that an iPad with iOS 3.2 was a much less compelling device than one with iOS 6.

Obviously, Windows RT cannot run regular Windows applications, but most of them would be deeply unusable without redesigning their UI for touch.

When I travel, I have a choice. When I go on a business trip, I take the Surface because it's a bit more flexible with peripherals and exchanging files. When I go on holiday, I take the iPad because it's a bit more portable and better for keeping me entertained in the airport.

So, I would actually like Windows RT to succeed and the Surface hardware to be iterated a few generations. The prices need to be lower and the choice of apps needs to improve, but I think we'll get more innovation in tablets in general if Windows RT doesn't fail.
post #79 of 321

Windows RT 8.1 is a BIG improvement though. It works nicely in portrait mode as well as landscape mode. They're nailed multi-tasking in a touch environment.

post #80 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I love weekends when I can look forward to some good old fashioned upbeat Apple boosterism. Seriously. Everything I read about Apple elsewhere is of the "Apple is doomed" or "new killer product that will take over for Apple's [fill in the blank]." Were it not for DED I would be walking around with a little black cloud over my head. Thank you for cheering us on

100% agree. It's like getting your weekly comic delivered when you were a kid ... (not sure if that happened in the US but we all did in UK as kids).
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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