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Why Tim Cook described Apple's iOS in the Car strategy as 'very important' - Page 2

post #41 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The same reason we're 30 years since the creation of the first fully electric automobile and there are only FOUR models in existence right now, three of them from one company: they refuse to change for any reason at any time.

Unfortunately it's too lucrative for them not to change.
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post #42 of 104
The question is will cars with older navigations systems be able to upgrade via software update for the car???
post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

Cook better get on the phone with Elon Musk. The Tesla Model S is one of the most popular cars - not just EVs - on the planet. They have a 17" touchscreen on the dashboard with a home grown OS. They could really use Apple on that screen... 1smile.gif


While I agree that the Model S could use Apple on its screen, I disagree that it is one of the most popular cars on the planet.  Maybe it is one of the most talked about cars, but the forecast is that Tesla will sell 21,000 of them this year.  The most popular cars sell more than that in a month and several vehicles have sold well over 100,000 through June with the top ones over 200,000 already.

post #44 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


The same reason we're 30 years since the creation of the first fully electric automobile and there are only FOUR models in existence right now, three of them from one company: they refuse to change for any reason at any time.

I think that's more to do with slow to improve battery technology than any kind of conspiracy.

 

Even in a modern electric car the battery is still huge. See the battery being inserted in to this Chevy Volt at the 0:55 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3dZfvTLbBE

post #45 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaayco View Post

Definitely an exciting development. The GPS in both BMWs and Mercedes (and probably other cars) uses overly basic top-down views, and still use DVDs for the data (at least that's true in Australia, not sure about elsewhere). Miles behind $100 GPS systems, which just seems ridiculous. Cutting all of that out, and leaving these features to your phone, seems like a great option. Improvements happen much faster too - who wants to go to a dealer to get an Annual DVD for your maps?

Hm, here in Germany my 2012 BMW's system has top-notch navigation (including head-up projection of directions onto the front window, 3D views, etc.). And the car downloads map updates automatically. No DVDs and no need to go for service to get updates. And the quality of the maps beats Apple's and Google's by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Big difference. Those are standalone devices, but this is built into a car. I just can't see someone NOT buying a BMW because it has iDrive and not iOS in the car.

True, but BMW has always been one of the first to really roll out such features. It will be the same with "iTunes in the car". People will demand it.
post #46 of 104

My boss has a 2012 Ford F-250 and Microsoft Sync SUCKS. It's so complicated he doesn't even use it and the times he has, we almost got into an accident.

post #47 of 104

The most interesting thing about iOS in the Car is the potential to disrupt the entire broadcast radio industry, across the planet.

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post #48 of 104
reply to pennypacker: "On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch."

...yeah and I jjust read a big article how hate it as too complicated and I believe there is a class-action against it for the lousy interface.
post #49 of 104
Well seeing IOS run on a non apple product for the first time.
post #50 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's crummy everywhere. Unless you like unbathed hipsters, and peddlers.

Haha!

It's non-existent here. One bus line that doesn't reach the suburbs. Our governor shot down a rail line. Subways in this area might as well be submarines.

I'd love the option of public transportation. Or a self driving vehicle.
post #51 of 104
Unless Apple has a technological breakthrough with voice recognition, Siri "Eyes Free" will fail miserably. Voice recognition assumes a relatively noise-free environment, and cannot tolerate competing voices. Anyone with kids, or even other adult passengers will attest that using most car voice activated systems is FAR MORE dangerous and frustrating than pushing a button, or even typing on a key board. Assuming the perfect environment (eg: driver alone), the most advanced systems so far are a useable interface but not preferable. The majority of them are not even useable.
post #52 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post

This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.

That's the reason I won't even consider a Ford....MS Sync installed, Ugh!

post #53 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

I can imagine the serious violations of personal details and information Apple is going to have to deal with once this device comes to fruition.

Not to mention the law suits when a car with an iOS system accerates unexpectedly.
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post #54 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post

This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.

I bet Ford have been actively courting Apple. It must be very embarrassing for them using a Windows off shoot these days.
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post #55 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I bet Ford have been actively courting Apple. It must be very embarrassing for them using a Windows off shoot these days.

Imagine windows 8 on a dash installed screen.

*shudder*
post #56 of 104
I just hope that Apple allows third-parties, such as Alpine and Kenwood, to make receivers that support this. If you have to buy a new car to get it, that seriously limits both the appeal and the potential audience for it.
post #57 of 104
Give me a Google that drives itself, plus an iOS in the Car display!

Come on, I can dream.
post #58 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post

This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.

 

Apple is not making an iOS device for cars, nor is it interested in installing iOS in cars...

 

"iOS in the Car" is simply an extension of Siri that taps into iOS system services (maps, music, phone, messages, mail, etc.) and displays related information onto the car's built-in display using a unique interface. Like with iPod connectivity before, this is simply an interface protocol, it is not hardware.

 

Apple would give car manufacturers the specifications for the protocol and they implement them into their central control systems. This would then give iOS devices access to the vehicles speakers, mics, displays, various controls, etc and allow the car's system to control various functions on your iOS device.

 

Apple is working to build the ecosystem of their platform... turing your car into an iPhone peripheral is a brilliant move that will further add to the "stickiness" of iOS.


Edited by mjtomlin - 7/25/13 at 8:52am
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #59 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The most interesting thing about iOS in the Car is the potential to disrupt the entire broadcast radio industry, across the planet.

I thought satellite radio, and HD radio did that already.
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post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I thought satellite radio, and HD radio did that already.

Well yeah, but not with an Apple logo. So it doesn't count.

/s
post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

This means Apple now has four distinct user interfaces: one for Macs, one for iPhone and iPod touch; one for iPad, and a familiar but new Siri-centric, iOS for the Car user environment thoughtfully optimized for safer, Eyes Free automotive use.

 

Not to nit-pick, but this is not entirely correct... I count 7,

 

Traditional OS X, Full-screen OS X, iPhone iOS, iPad iOS, AppleTV iOS, Siri, and now "iOS in the Car".

 

"iOS in the Car" will be an interesting departure for iOS as it may have to deal with many different screen sizes (although, to a limited extent, so does AppleTV).

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post #62 of 104
Frank777 View Post

The most interesting thing about iOS in the Car is the potential to disrupt the entire broadcast radio industry, across the planet.

Provided you have consistently decent data coverage. I can drive across my city all day and be stuck on Edge, which also means no simultaneous voice and data (ironically my only reason for choosing AT&T).

 

allenbf View Post
dasanman69 View Post
It's crummy everywhere. Unless you like unbathed hipsters, and peddlers.
It's non-existent here. One bus line that doesn't reach the suburbs. Our governor shot down a rail line. Subways in this area might as well be submarines.
I'd love the option of public transportation. Or a self driving vehicle.

 

That's what I was getting at. Dense urban areas should already have autonomous (for you) vehicles, but who wants a career in city planning?

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post #63 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The most interesting thing about iOS in the Car is the potential to disrupt the entire broadcast radio industry, across the planet.

Really? Do iPhone users even listen to the radio? I certainly don't. Even PBS radio is intolerable.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Hm, here in Germany my 2012 BMW's system has top-notch navigation (including head-up projection of directions onto the front window, 3D views, etc.). And the car downloads map updates automatically. No DVDs and no need to go for service to get updates. And the quality of the maps beats Apple's and Google's by far.

 

I am a bit disappointed in the build quality of my 2012 BMW. The fit and finish is not very good. The paint is terrible - orange peel is hideous. A lot of cheap plastic parts. I think I will look into buying one of those Austrian made Mercedes old school SUVs not sure what the model name is. Of course I already have an SUV so I don't really need another one but...

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post #64 of 104

first, this article gives a good history and current status of MyFordTouch:

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20130623/BUSINESS0102/306230046/My-ford-touch-infotainment

 

it does have most of the features that iOS Car will to start (as far as we know) and a number of others (some services cost extra, like Sirius) that might be useful:

 

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/MyFord_English_LR.pdf

 

it's built on top of the basic Ford Sync system:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sync

 

you can get just Sync as a $300 option. but MyFordTouch will cost you $1000! (wow!)

 

bottom line: so far it's hurt Ford sales significantly. but MS and Ford are working on it ... just wait!

 

second, the basic approach of iOS Car is different. it's an "extender" app - your iPhone (or iPad?) you have with you does all the actual computing involved all the time. all that is built into the car are the UI input devices - the touch screen and voice mike connecting with the iPhone via Bluetooth (or wifi?). so if you forget your iPhone ... well the car will probably have other modes you can use for the basics, but not iOSC. obviously it will be simple for Apple to constantly update the iOSC app automatically with iOS 7. but we don't know yet how much car makers will rip us off to get it as an option.

 

whereas the full MFT OS is running on a mother board in the car dashboard with its own built-in 3G(?) broadband data link. hence the need for manual updates via a USB stick you only get in the mail every year or so.

 

bottom line: iOSC will be far more flexible, adding more improvements and third party services easily, and any bugs can be fixed fast. that is a huge advantage over old-school Sync/MFT (so Microsoft!). if it "just works" reliably it will be a huge hit. and i won't buy another car without it.


Edited by Alfiejr - 7/25/13 at 9:42am
post #65 of 104
I saw the following ad on TV yesterday for the Sonic by Chevy: http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7oVl/chevrolet-sonic-with-siri-buttons
post #66 of 104

DED wrote lastly: "This means Apple now has four distinct user interfaces: one for Macs, one for iPhone and iPod touch; one for iPad, and a familiar but new Siri-centric, iOS for the Car ...".

 

but he forgot the fifth one! Apple TV. ooops!

 

btw, i expect the ATV UI will get the new iOS7 fresh look too this Fall, and hopefully an improved Remote App to go with it - with Siri.


Edited by Alfiejr - 7/25/13 at 10:03am
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post

This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.

 

Microsoft Sync has been providing these features for many years, and it's garbage. 

 

From the MyFordTouch Wikipedia entry:

 

Fulfillment of the system's promise has fallen short, with thousands of MyFord Touch owners complaining that the system is unreliable, that it crashes without warning, that it fails to respond to commands, and that it fails to integrate with common mobile devices, such as the iPhone. Ford reliability ratings, both by Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers and Associates have plummeted because of the defects in the MyFord Touch system, andConsumer Reports recommends that new car buyers not consider Ford or Lincoln models equipped with MyFord Touch or MyLincoln Touch.

 

Bottom line, it's a Microsoft product. 'Nuff said.

post #68 of 104

I keep saying the same thing- I don't know why analysts haven't stolen my idea yet and said Apple will do this in the fall (then move to next spring, then next fall, then next spring....)

 

Apple needs to not allow the car manufacturers to create the hardware to work with iOS.  Apple needs to create the hardware completely.  Use an entirely new device that installs and plugs into the dash permanently (but can be removed for security and upgrades.  The current method- the car technology gets outdated so fast, it kills the product where it stands.  By having an annual "iDash" refresh, you can constantly have updated technology as a user, and Apple can get fantastic return on upgrade cycles.  Basically- Apple needs to make head units.  I'd buy one in a heart beat and it would revolutionize the car industry as we know it.

 

Whether this happens through just creating their own head unit, or partnering with auto manufacturers that have the upgradable dash built-in, it would be an enormous seller.

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post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

 

Not to nit-pick, but this is not entirely correct... I count 7,

 

Traditional OS X, Full-screen OS X, iPhone iOS, iPad iOS, AppleTV iOS, Siri, and now "iOS in the Car".

 

"iOS in the Car" will be an interesting departure for iOS as it may have to deal with many different screen sizes (although, to a limited extent, so does AppleTV).

 

Also, don't forget about the iPod classic interface which is completely unique and there's the iPod Nano.

post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaayco View Post



Sounds like they might actually be getting somewhere. My 5 series from a few years' ago was DVD, and my Mercedes that is less than a year old has DVD. Could just be in Australia. We are a backwater for quite a lot of technology. Good weather, moderately uncorrupt democracy, but average technology 1wink.gif
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post #71 of 104
In its June quarter Apple sold 31.2 million iPhones. In the first six months of this year the entire world production of cars was roughly the same amount as iPhones sold in three months.

For in-car use to be a profit centre for Apple, it needs to work for most cars that are already on the road, not just the new ones.

Apple needs an Apple TV-like approach to the automobile if it is to be a game changer.
post #72 of 104

The approach there is to buy an iPhone mount and your stereo connectivity method of choice. I use a cigarette lighter adapter with built-in FM transmitter.

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post #73 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

The approach there is to buy an iPhone mount and your stereo connectivity method of choice. I use a cigarette lighter adapter with built-in FM transmitter.

For what?  Hands free calling?  Maybe Texting?  Listening to your iPod?


This is antiquated technology.  Ridiculously antiquated.  Imagine having full apps accessible on your dash.  Stream not just internet radio stations, texts, etc.  But facebook & twitter updates pushed to it (read to you, not on screen of course).  News updates, Traffic, GPS, Weather, Gas, etc. all pushed to your dash, etc.  But done in an absolutely seemless and elegant way.  That is the future.  Technically, it's the present- but I said in an "elegant" way... that's the future.  :)

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post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

For what?  Hands free calling?  Maybe Texting?  Listening to your iPod?


This is antiquated technology.  Ridiculously antiquated.  Imagine having full apps accessible on your dash.  Stream not just internet radio stations, texts, etc.  But facebook & twitter updates pushed to it (read to you, not on screen of course).  News updates, Traffic, GPS, Weather, Gas, etc. all pushed to your dash, etc.  But done in an absolutely seemless and elegant way.  That is the future.  Technically, it's the present- but I said in an "elegant" way... that's the future.  1smile.gif

We need less distractions not more while driving.
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post #75 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


You're both being FAR too optimistic. Coming from me, the quintessential technology optimist (NO, that's not sarcasm! You just don't see it in me HERE because there's zero reason to ever be optimistic about Apple), you know it's time to reevaluate. 1tongue.gif

It's not that the tech won't be viable by the end of the teens. It's not that multiple companies, not just Google, will have solutions by then. It's that the automobile manufacturers won't do it and the government will do what the automobile manufacturers say. You won't see them legal in many states until economy forces the law through. And even then you'll still have most of the manufacturers ignore it. Additionally, when they finally do start making them, it will be ONE model at a time. ~Two decades to the first production model means another decade or TWO after that before all models by that manufacturer (one manufacturer, remember) also have it.

Never MIND the fact that people keep their cars for up to (or over) a decade. Because they run that long. Self-driving cars won't even be the majority in the United States (much less anywhere else on the face of the Earth) for, what, 50 years after the first model comes out from the first manufacturer.

And then the rest of the planet will still be using regular cars. Decades-old regular cars.

We'll see iOS as the console in Tesla vehicles before self-driving cars enter production. 1tongue.gif
I don't trust Google with my family recipes, phone numbers, or addresses. I will NEVER trust them with my life. Safety! Ha.

I say when the rich people want to swap out their first run of production self-driving cars, some should be sold to state and local governments for use with idiots. You know, the DUIs, reckless drivers, and the like. Leave the rest of us to afford them if we want them, but get the menaces out of control early, you know? They don't deserve brand new cars, but they also don't need to be driving.

Even if a portion of the cars on the road can self-drive, you're right; that will do a lot to help traffic. All cars can communicate no matter where they are, so thousands of them could automatically choose an alternate route 10 minutes in advance because tens of thousands of humans decided to jam up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy911 View Post

Phone - Car integration will be great, but I really think we need a standard that allows any car to work with any phone.  I fear Apple will create a proprietary Apple only integration, then Android will create an Android only, MS has something already.  Then we have a mess of cars that work with different phones.  

This is why these things never take off and become widely used.  Companies need to put down their greed and ego and agree on a single standard so car manufacturers will be willing to add the feature to the majority of their cars.

Well it is software based. They could install all the software for all systems then when you turn the screen on for the first time a window comes up asking what system you want to boot up in. All the hardware is tucked away behind the scene.
post #76 of 104

Were it so easy.

 

More likely there will be companies offering extra money for exclusivity contracts. Even when there is a consortium, competing standards are still developed and sometimes enter the market (see Microsoft's HD-DVD).

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post #77 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittsend View Post

Are you SERIOUS? Microsoft Sync is the worst abomination I've ever seen for car technology of ANY kind. I've rented 3 Fords in the last year and it never ceases to amaze me that NOTHING can be done with Microsoft Sync that doesn't require going down thru 2, 3, 4 or more levels of menus, using cryptic buttons on the control panel. The "features" may be there, but good luck getting to them. This is Windows 8 in a car, but much worse. Technology designed by committee, as only Microsoft can do it.

 

<rant>I have to agree. I have Microsoft Sync in my Mercury. Let me give you ONE simple example. If I have the Weather Map feature displaying in the dash, and I'm not moving (say, a red light, or a parking lot), and my location is no longer in the center (the map does not move, your icon moves...), then to recenter the icon in the map, I just touch the map at the spot where I want the map to center. If, on the other hand, I'm in motion, to recenter the map, I must touch the spot on the screen to exit the map and then touch the button to restart the map. Thus, if I'm in motion, it takes a minimum of two touches to simply recenter the map (which I shouldn't have to do at all...). Yep, that's safe.

 

Don't even get me started on what happens if you press the little button on the steering wheel with the telephone handset icon. Note: It does NOT hang up the phone (well, Ok, it does hang up the phone if you hold the button down for a LONG time...). And, if you don't know this, and the first time you hit that little button while driving down the road at highway speed, you'll nearly crash trying to figure out what's actually happening to your phone and how to stop it, or even just ignore it. Yep, that's safe.

 

And, let's talk about what happens if your car and your iPhone have a Bluetooth disagreement while you're trying to make a call...Oh, not now. Or, what happens when you finally get them back together again--while driving--...Control...I must exercise control...and stop writing now...

 

I definitely do not have a pleasant User Experience with Microsoft Sync.

 

I tend to believe that the developers were in a lab and not in a car (in motion) when they designed it. </rant>

post #78 of 104
The Ferrari California could most assuredly use Apple for their infotainment system. I would love to see a car iPad designed just for this use.

post #79 of 104
As an external observer who has been a provider of resources to the highway data collection industry for over 25 years, I know many of the existing players and their approach to getting a foothold in the dashboard of our cars. If it was up to the auto industry, they would lock out all of the outside technology companies because there is a lot riding on who controls the interface between the driver and the car. It will be very easy to monetize this.

Apple's late entry into the game is actually going to give it a great advantage. They can now set the bar in a way that it creates a new paradigm and they don't have to be burdened by carrying legacy methodologies and software into the game as Microsoft and Google do. Apple Maps in iOS 6 looked like a failure to some but to the keen eye, one could see the underpinnings of Apples advantage. There was never anything wrong with the mechanism they created. The only weakness was the lack of depth in the data that they were portraying.

Take a look at them in iOS 7 and you will see that they have overcome that hurdle and are producing a pretty incredible experience for the end user. I originally thought that the former Navteq/Nokia Location and Commerce Division, now called "Here," was going to be purchased to fill that void. Apple won't need make that deal to get into a position of superiority over the other players.

The thing that really gives Apple an advantage is the success of the iPhone. If they can convince the car companies to give them a connection interface to the existing display and controls in the car, the installed base can bring the computing horsepower to the dashboard through their own iPhones. It makes it easy for both Apple and the Manufactures to get this up and running very quickly.
post #80 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And crash and die because the system failed and you weren't paying attention. 1tongue.gif

As magical and wonderful as your scenario (and those dreamed up by thousands of others) would be, it's just not realistic. You'll always have to be sitting in the driver's seat, and always have to be ready at a moment's notice to take over control.

I'm in shock but I have to agree 100% with Tallest here. It will be an extremely long time before automatic driving is as reliable as human drivers in all the varying conditions the average car might see. At best we might get collision avoidance technology really soon. With so many crashes the results of idiots on their phone running red lights such technology would pay off very quickly.
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  • Why Tim Cook described Apple's iOS in the Car strategy as 'very important'
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