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Editorial: Why iOS in the Car is a very big deal for Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Biometrics used in a car door mechanism would be a pretty cool accessory.

Only because it makes it easier for the legal owner to gain access.  If you're not the legal owner, then the glass is pretty fragile and there's even much quicker and less destructive ways to enter a vehicle.  Also, electrically, you can start almost any car in under 5 seconds without the key and disable the steering locking.  The people who smash the steering column to gain access to the wiring are literally doing more work and damage than needed.

 

Remote starters make the task of taking a car so easy that you literally look like you own the car as you're getting in and driving away.

 

I never have taken a car and don't have a need to but I've demonstrated it to friends many, many times.  As long as cars have an electronic ignition system you will be able to start it up faster than the owner who has the key if you know anything about electrical circuitry.  The lock on the door and the key is literally just there to give the owner a false sense of security.  ...or "to keep honest people honest" as the saying goes.

post #42 of 78
Integration into the car is a natural extension to the apple Eco system. Lets face it, no car software is ever upgraded, other than say a new navigation CD. The only time you get new technology or capabilities is upgrading your car, so make perfect sense to integrate IOS into the car.

Question is, all car makers will wonder how they can capitalise (make money) from the integration. Charge for upgrades? No reason they can't charge a premium for the "apple compatible hardware" just as they do now for SatNav systems.

Then there is a question. What about the millions of android drivers out there, how do they appease them? If there is not an option of both, it will be like the early days on in car mobiles where you could only use 1 or maybe 2 phone types.

We all know apple will bring the best hardware, user experience out of the two but I guess it's the end user that will ultimately want to decide.
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Crap no one will use is more important than something everyone uses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by acatomic View Post

Why call it crap?

Every time you download a app or make a purchase you'll be using your fingerprint instead of your Apple ID password. Easy and safe to use it will slowly but surely make e-wallet a mainstream thing.

These things are great until they don't work, and you need a password. If you have to use a password they are no more secure than otherwise, if it isn't 100 percent functional its just useless.
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post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by laytech View Post

Integration into the car is a natural extension to the apple Eco system. Lets face it, no car software is ever upgraded, other than say a new navigation CD. The only time you get new technology or capabilities is upgrading your car, so make perfect sense to integrate IOS into the car.

Question is, all car makers will wonder how they can capitalise (make money) from the integration. Charge for upgrades? No reason they can't charge a premium for the "apple compatible hardware" just as they do now for SatNav systems.

Then there is a question. What about the millions of android drivers out there, how do they appease them? If there is not an option of both, it will be like the early days on in car mobiles where you could only use 1 or maybe 2 phone types.

We all know apple will bring the best hardware, user experience out of the two but I guess it's the end user that will ultimately want to decide.

iOS in the Car will be a premium feature for a few years. The majority of consumers with large disposable incomes overwhelming choose iOS devices over Android.
post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Or the guy can just wear a surgical glove, using the residue from your last print to gain access immediately.
Nice try.

Actually, the AuthenTec technology Apple bought is very cool. It uses a combination of capacitive and RF tech to look at the live layers of the skin, and includes dynamic properties such as blood flow as part of the match. It doesn't use optics at all, and completely ignores the appearance of the surface layer of dead skin cells. Images of a print, residue from a previous print, or even a dead finger, won't fool it.
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

Actually, the AuthenTec technology Apple bought is very cool. It uses a combination of capacitive and RF tech to look at the live layers of the skin, and includes dynamic properties such as blood flow as part of the match. It doesn't use optics at all, and completely ignores the appearance of the surface layer of dead skin cells. Images of a print, residue from a previous print, or even a dead finger, won't fool it.

People, in general, greatly underestimate the potential of Apple to disrupt the mobile payment and "Social Sign in." With approximately 500 million accounts, Apple iTunes could become a force in either market overnight. "Social Sign in" would make paying with an Apple account trivial in conjunction with mobile payments and fingerprint identification technology.
post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

The lock on the door and the key is literally just there to give the owner a false sense of security.  ...or "to keep honest people honest" as the saying goes.

What about the fact that, when opened any other way, it can trigger the alarm? Surely, that must have some deterrent effect, even if slight?
post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


What's the potential if iOS in the car drives sales of companion iDevices that would provide in-car/removable entertainment?

So, the package from the dealer might include:
  • iOS In the Car
  • iOS In the Car entertainment media/storage server WiFi
  • Sharable Cell Radio
  • iCloud Access
  • an iPad for each passenger

Seems like a potentially source of profit

Very interesting. I hope it's something like this.
post #49 of 78
It makes perfect sense for Apple to get themselves into the automobiles. Most user interfaces are just plain awful and buggy. I have a 2012 Ford Explorer which uses Microsoft SYNC. One word - TERRIBLE. Its buggy, slow and very difficult to manuever around.

I am an avid music listener. I get very frustrated connecting my iPhone 5 to the Explorer.

My wife and I just purchased last night a 2014 Mercedes C250. My understanding is that Mercedes has signed along with other auto companies to work w/ Apple on integrating IOS 7 - iTunes,into their vehicles. I am very much looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

Hoping that when using the interface on the Benz, it will only requires the software i.e. iphone 5 rather than hardware built-in to the car.

Time will tell.
post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

LOL! Just watched an old Seinfeld show where Cosmo really could have used that!

The 'assman' one? lol.gif
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post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Maybe for engines and drivetrain but I've never seen a Formula One car with a satnav or radio, must be a different circuit.

Yea, paddle shifting was on race cars for years before it was available on mass produced cars.
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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Biometrics used in a car door mechanism would be a pretty cool accessory.
Only because it makes it easier for the legal owner to gain access.  If you're not the legal owner, then the glass is pretty fragile and there's even much quicker and less destructive ways to enter a vehicle.  Also, electrically, you can start almost any car in under 5 seconds without the key and disable the steering locking.  The people who smash the steering column to gain access to the wiring are literally doing more work and damage than needed.

Remote starters make the task of taking a car so easy that you literally look like you own the car as you're getting in and driving away.

I never have taken a car and don't have a need to but I've demonstrated it to friends many, many times.  As long as cars have an electronic ignition system you will be able to start it up faster than the owner who has the key if you know anything about electrical circuitry.  The lock on the door and the key is literally just there to give the owner a false sense of security.  ...or "to keep honest people honest" as the saying goes.

Mmmm... Your technological expertise (and possible source of funds) is showing,,,

just kidding -- good to see that you're out and a about!

Edit: oops.. Thought I was responding to Relic.
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post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Try answering the question.

Try having a relevant one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acatomic View Post

Why call it crap?

…safe…

Because it isn't safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

Actually, the AuthenTec technology Apple bought is very cool. It uses a combination of capacitive and RF tech to look at the live layers of the skin, and includes dynamic properties such as blood flow as part of the match. It doesn't use optics at all, and completely ignores the appearance of the surface layer of dead skin cells. Images of a print, residue from a previous print, or even a dead finger, won't fool it.

I'll have to believe it when I see it, then. I've been raised on technology distinguishable from magic.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #54 of 78
The dashboard could become the next great iPhone or iPad opportunity for Apple. To understand this possibility, you need to see the big picture that is developing.

There is a big push in the auto industry to get rid of the gas tax as a funding mechanism for public highways and roads. Currently, the proposal is to institute a user fee model based on distance traveled on every road, including locals. One way to collect these tolls is through the use of technology that can integrate a powerful computing platform with on board telematics and automatic reporting similar to cell data plans or wifi. The auto insurance companies are already implementing an early generation of this technology to determine how to price your policy. By collecting data on your driving behavior, they can deduce the risk you pose and the potential for payouts for collision damage.

So, how does Apple take advantage of this trend? The automobile companies will need a robust platform to help monetize the opportunity. Apple can bring a powerful computing combination of hardware and software to the game. It becomes a win-win proposition for both sides. The car manufacturers solve a problem that they are not equipped to handle and Apple gets a channel to serve up their ecosystem. Of course, Google and Microsoft will want to be players too but Apple has uniquely positioned itself to provide a superior solution.
post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Do you not think that fingerprint ID is bad?  As much as someone can copy another's fingerprint, I would use the least used finger, which is the pinky finger on the weakest hand.  By the time someone goes through the hassle of trying to figure that out and get access to your phone, you probably would have wiped it clean ANYWAY.  As long as it takes little time to unlock the phone by using a fingerprint, I'm all for that.  I can't stand typing in passwords, or do I like  retyping them in every time I enter it improperly.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Or the guy can just wear a surgical glove, using the residue from your last print to gain access immediately.
Nice try.

 

The Apple fingerprint sensor doesn't just look at the finger print like you think. It looks at the capacitance pattern of the finger. So, a "rubber glove" or other TV and movie tricks are of no use.

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post #56 of 78
Car OEMs have traditionally cared about two things most

1. Branding. The IVI system must be representative and consistent with the brand image. If they lose control over branding, then they think people wont pay a premium for the factory installed IVI system vs after market.
2. Driver distraction and safety. They don't get their ass sued if ivi system causes accident due to driver distraction.
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post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


These things are great until they don't work, and you need a password. If you have to use a password they are no more secure than otherwise, if it isn't 100 percent functional its just useless.

We'll have to wait and see how functional/reliable it's going to be, butt I'm pretty sure it's going to be on a very high level.

I have a feeling that some people are comparing Siri to this fingerprint scanner in usefulnes, and that the bad experience with Siri is the reasion where good portion of distrust towards fingerprint scanner is coming from.
post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Because it isn't safe.

Well nothing in life is 100% safe, but I believe that this system will have one of the highest degrees of safety around, more safe than credit card or even then the good "old" wallet.
post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm... Your technological expertise (and possible source of funds) is showing,,,

just kidding -- good to see that you're out and a about!

Edit: oops.. Thought I was responding to Relic.


Oh hay, long time no hear, where have you been hiding? I've been up around for a while now, I went back to work full time at the beginning of 2012, I still have short hair. I guess I'm still afraid to grow it out, that and I like it short. I wouldn't want to wish cancer on my worst enemy unless of course your looking for the ultimate weight loss program as I look great in a bikin now lol.gif Both my husband and I have really good careers so we're blessed with a little financial freedom. I don't normally flaunt my toys but this is a tech site where such things can be appreciated, if it's on subject. If I get out of hand with it though just use what you learned in pimp'n school to smack me down to reality.1biggrin.gif
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Yea, paddle shifting was on race cars for years before it was available on mass produced cars.

Aaahhh I hate those thingy's (ever try parking a car using one). Though I agree that Formula racing and other circuits bring many advances in automotive engineering, things like the iDrive where this iOS device (on topic) would hopefully replace, was not invented at the race track but in a department for consumer technology. If we were talking about a new drivetrain, shocks, suspension, engine, composite materials, flippy paddle shifting irked.gif, or even the embedded computer that controls those things the racing analogy would make sense.


Where is the SatNav, Sat/Terrestrial Radio, MP3/DVD player, air-conditioning controls, rear parking camera display, seat heater controls, ect.


Even something like TPMS(Tire Pressure Monitoring System) was first used in luxury cars not racing.
Edited by Relic - 7/28/13 at 3:27am
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post #61 of 78
Steve Jobs will ask what is the profitability of the car market. How many car do the world purchase a year? How much can you charge an automobile entertainment system? US$2000 would be too expensive for any car less than a full size car. (Apple sells US$500 per iPad to GM and GM will charge you US$2000!) BUT Apple must sets it foot in the auto business since people listens music mostly while driving. Hopefully iTune will make them money. It would be great if we could be great to have iPhone turns ON/OFF air conditioner remotely or function as a key. A lot of VAR possibility.
post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Try having a relevant one.

Try making sense first and then you'll get relevant questions.
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post #63 of 78

Yet another Great Article!!!! Thank you Apple Insider!!!!!

 

I've been looking for an aftermarket 2-Din unit to replace the god awful Blue&Me (Microsoft's glorified BT handsfree) in my Alfa Romeo Brera for quite some time now. There have been a few interesting options out there but nothing really revolutionary. Perhaps Alpine or Kenwood will now release a proper head unit with iOS integration and proper Apple maps? Perhaps some cool OBDII apps too? That would be truly awesome! 1biggrin.gif

 

...I know OBDII is a bit gimmicky, but most modern sportscars have it as standard now days so it can't hurt 1wink.gif

post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Try making sense first and then you'll get relevant questions.

'Kay, I'll spell it out for you. You don't give a flying frick about the actual argument; you'd rather just post baiting questions that have nothing to do with it in an attempt to derail.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #65 of 78
My problem with the fingerprint sensor is this: it has to work 100 percent of the time for 100 percent of the population. Anything less and there is another major "scandal" no matter how contrived.
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post #66 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

My problem with the fingerprint sensor is this: it has to work 100 percent of the time for 100 percent of the population. Anything less and there is another major "scandal" no matter how contrived.

Exactly. The thing about a passcode is that 100% of the blame is placed squarely on the user. A fingerprint sensor, however, puts most–if not all–of the blame on Apple.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by architecton View Post

Perhaps some cool OBDII apps too? That would be truly awesome! 1biggrin.gif

...I know OBDII is a bit gimmicky, but most modern sportscars have it as standard now days so it can't hurt 1wink.gif

The problem with OBDII is the the plugin unit cannot directly to a iDevice via bluetooth. Both devices have to be on the same wifi network.
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post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

My problem with the fingerprint sensor is this: it has to work 100 percent of the time for 100 percent of the population. Anything less and there is another major "scandal" no matter how contrived.

Why would that be a scandal?!

If a fingerprint sensor won't work for you then you'll just have to use a passcode like on any other smartphone out there. And forget about it working for 100% of population, some people have damaged fingertips and you can't really blame Apple for not being able to read a damaged fingerprint.
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by acatomic View Post

Why would that be a scandal?!

If a fingerprint sensor won't work for you then you'll just have to use a passcode like on any other smartphone out there. And forget about it working for 100% of population, some people have damaged fingertips and you can't really blame Apple for not being able to read a damaged fingerprint.

It should still be able to save a damaged fingerprint. It would need to have a way to switch from the fingerprint unlock to the pass code just in case you damage your fingerprint.
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post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by acatomic View Post

Why would that be a scandal?!

If a fingerprint sensor won't work for you then you'll just have to use a passcode like on any other smartphone out there. And forget about it working for 100% of population, some people have damaged fingertips and you can't really blame Apple for not being able to read a damaged fingerprint.

i said "manufactured" scandal like Antenna gate, or bumper gate etc. if it is only 99% successful tens-hundreds of thousands of people will be affected. They will be vocal.
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post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

My problem with the fingerprint sensor is this: it has to work 100 percent of the time for 100 percent of the population. Anything less and there is another major "scandal" no matter how contrived.

Someone better tell HP, Lenovo, IBM, Dell and Panasonic this before it's too late.
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post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Agreed. It's the only thing I dislike about my car (but, in fairness, the interfaces are equally bad in the other vehicles I've had -- Audi & Lexus)

I recently bought a BMW with Apps, Internet etc. I don't use any of it - it is far too cumbersome with respect to my iPhone. This speaks volumes about what BMW should do and what Apple should do. Apple are masters in computer ergonomics and BMW are not. iOS in the car would be welcome in any future BMW I own. Hope BMW agree. So far they seem to think differently.
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Someone better tell HP, Lenovo, IBM, Dell and Panasonic this before it's too late.

I did a search and there are consumer complaints on all of them. And we are talking about add-ons to computers here, not the primary way to access a device. And Apple get more stick from a hostile press than any of those companies. As you know.

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post #74 of 78
The best carputer today is what's in a Tesla Model S. That is the capability that OEMs should be moving to in every car they make (aside from the fact that they should be emulating Tesla in many other ways too). I don't know if outsourcing to Apple will help them get there faster. But clearly they aren't moving there fast enough right now. In the meantime, I will be curious about what's in it for the OEMs. Differentiation is a big deal for the OEMs. Having the same infotainment system as another company simply destroys the profit margin for one of those most profitable accessories. So I wonder what Apple has offered them as the sweetner....
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The total car market worldwide annually is about 65M (growing, perhaps at about 2 - 3% per year). Let's say Apple can capture 25% of the market, and can charge $750 to the manufacturer (who will probably double the price to the consumer).

 

That's a revenue opportunity of ~$12B. At a profit margin of 20% - 25%, that's $2.4B - $3.0B in incremental earnings, good for $36B - $45B in additional market cap, assuming a (I wish!!) P/E ratio of 15x (the long-run average for the US stock market). That's ~10% of the current market cap, or $40 - $50 extra per share.

 

Not bad, but it's not huge. (However, it's important for Apple to do this, so as to signal to the market that it is pursuing all major innovation and growth opportunities).

 

1) The average price of a car is substantially lower outside the developed world than it is in North America/Europe. As such I would suggest that the theoretical maximum market is probably half or even a lower fraction of the total worldwide market. 2) Even in North America and Europe, trends don't favour this market. The car market itself is shrinking as youth drive less and increasing move to a more urban lifestyle, carsharing, etc. And guess which population segment adopts technology the fastest? 3) Apple capturing 25% of such a market will be very optimistic for several reasons. Yes, I don't forget when Apple wanted only 1% of the phone market. This is different. Not in the least is because I can't see carmakers simply giving up their established infotainment brands. And because I can't see more than total die-hard Apple fans picking up iOS in Car initially. It's one thing to buy an iPhone or iPad. It's another to lock your car into an ecosystem, possibly restricting which devices you buy in the future and maybe even resale value of the vehicle (only other Apple users will consider buying your car). Then again, there's a very strong desire for more usable infotainment systems. So we'll see.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

The best carputer today is what's in a Tesla Model S.

I really hope Tesla and Apple team up to swap that with a truly custom Apple solution. It's already astounding, but that combination would make the Tesla S and X second to absolutely nothing in their classes.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #77 of 78
I spoke at length with a NVidia engineer at Siggraph about their automobile integration effort. They had a demo of a center dash display which could show the normal speed dials and other status information. You could also scroll through other displays much like flipping between Cover Flow songs on an iPhone.

NVidia wants the automobile software to be fully upgradable but said that they don't expect third party apps for the main console display due to safety reasons and because the automobile manufacturers want full control over that. They also want the compute modules themselves to be upgradeable at a dealer. They expect at least two for each car and hope to be used for advanced things like self driving cars. The modules are hardened for use in the harsh environment of an automobile.

NVidia also wants a separate display for the passengers. This could be using a separate screen or a dual display that shows different information to the right and left of the center console. A user interface was mentioned where by a passenger acting as a navigator could find a location and then swipe it over to a map on the driver's screen. They do expect third party apps to be available for the passenger screens.

I asked about the problem of distracted driving for any new displays on a driver's display and he said that this was being carefully investigated. A balance has to be found between providing the driver with the information they need but not so much that they lose concentration on the road. I think that nothing should be shown on a driver's screen that cannot be absorbed with a brief glance. A driver should never have to look away from the road for more than half a second.
post #78 of 78
He's got it all wrong. This isn't a "hardware" solution. It's not an iModule. iOS is not going to be installed in your car. It will run iOS from your phone, over wifi or USB. So kind of a two-way airplay, that lets you control it from the screen you're airplaying to. That way you don't have to worry about upgrading, as the upgrades will come with new iOS versions on your phone. Their may be some Apple hardware involved, but most likely just an authentication chip. The licensing will be very similar to the way that speaker manufactures incorporate airplay audio into their devices. Of course their will be strict hardware specifications that automakers must follow, such as screen size and resolution, but that hardware won't be supplied by Apple.
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