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Samsung Electronics has not dethroned Apple, Inc. in mobile profits - Page 2

post #41 of 137

I am not a fan of these Market Research Firms or Consulting Firms. They regulalry misguide general people and their customers alike. It's a shame people refuse to think themselves and outsource that to other who are clearly incompetent.

 

I always thought Gartner is the prime culprit. Look here (http://www.zdnet.com/why-does-the-it-industry-continue-to-listen-to-gartner-7000001394/). The conclusion is a classic: In early 2009, Gartner projects “sharpest unit decline in history.” At the end of the year, it reports “strongest growth rate in seven years.”

 

Now, it seems Strategy Analytics is fighting for the crown.

post #42 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Basically you want Apple to have hired SEAL team 6 to kill off Samsung's executives and engineers. That's really all they could have done other than what they did.

What a script. Actually it would be ex-SEALs, hired by C. Odo to pull off the caper. Better say "take hostage" rather than k**l, because those chaebol guys have no sense of humor. Neither does the N*A.

He and the SEALS force them to make a 13-inch phone, whereupon pants start falling down through all the 'hoods across the country. Verizon stores are stormed, etc. etc.
post #43 of 137
Good job keeping them honest. The numbers speak for themselves: the original article was clearly wrong.
post #44 of 137

I have not read anything other than the headline.

Just want to say that it is all about Wall Street Game! 

It is about time and Apple will rip the faces of naysayers :)

post #45 of 137
But these Samsung phones break easily, causing an increase in their numbers ¡
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #46 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by eponymous View Post

All of the companies in the report you linked to above are mobile phone companies:... Sony Ericsson.

Relatively easy to see how much they're making because phones are all they make.

SonyEricsson no longer exists, Sony make phones, Ericsson make network equipment.
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post #47 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But these Samsung phones break easily, causing an increase in their numbers ¡

You can say a lot about Samsung but their phones don't break easily. When I had my Samsung Note I must have dropped it about a half a dozen times without so much as a scratch. My daughter has had to replace her iPhone three times already due to cracked screens. I'm not saying the iPhone aren't well built either I'm just stating what I have personally witnessed. In fact during my daughters birthday party in June I noticed that more then a quarter of the girls iPhone's all had cracks in them, this is probably just kids being kids but it was still an alarming number. There was about 60 kids in my house, which come to think about it, the amazing part is that none of them left my house without a crack, teenage girls irked.gif. My poor dog didn't leave his little house for three days after that ordeal.


Edited by Relic - 7/28/13 at 4:18am
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post #48 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Nonsense. You didn't say "Motorola Mobility". You said "Motorola" - which makes an enormous range of products.
No because I assumed they meant MM.
post #49 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Nonsense. You didn't say "Motorola Mobility". You said "Motorola" - which makes an enormous range of products.

Nonsense would be anyone assuming that this discussion on smartphones would be including Motorola rather than Motorola Mobility. 1rolleyes.gif You're being excessively petty since the implied company was clear.
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post #50 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Nonsense would be anyone assuming that this discussion on smartphones would be including Motorola rather than Motorola Mobility. 1rolleyes.gif You're being excessively petty since the implied company was clear.

Sorry, when people get facts wrong, they need to be corrected. They also included a non-existient company (Sony-Ericsson) in their list. If someone wants to make a point, they should do it with facts, not made up nonsense. If they're wrong, I can correct them.

Besides, even if you consider only Motorola Mobility, he's still wrong. Motorola Mobility makes a lot more than phones:
- weather radios
- set top boxes
- fitness devices
- baby monitors
- corded and cordless phones
- modems and gateways

No matter how you slice it, his statement was wrong.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #51 of 137
Quote:
Basically you want Apple to have hired SEAL team 6 to kill off Samsung's executives and engineers. That's really all they could have done other than what they did.

Of course they could. They could have put out a midprice and/or low price option to blunt the entry of Samsung (and others) into the marketplace. Allowing them in does more than just siphon profits, it allows Samsung (in this case) to devote profits to chipset design, display panel improvements, other internal features (NFC, etc.) and it creates a wealth of opportunities in the retail chain, giving incentive for vendors to open stores, kiosks, and for carriers (with hidden rebates) to push Samsung models over Apple's.

 

Yes, that means some models with fewer features (like the iPod nano vs original iPod, or the MacBook with a plastic case vs the MacBook Pro) at lower price points, but it's a very large segment of the market which Apple has simply GIVEN AWAY by not competing in it. The reason for their dominance in iPods was because they brought out models to cover every budget. With iPhones (and now iPads) they have, for some bizarre reason, chosen to serve only the high end. Well, you can be Mercedes if you want, but you are not going to have the profits of Ford, and eventually you are going to be a niche provider.

post #52 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sorry, when people get facts wrong, they need to be corrected. They also included a non-existient company (Sony-Ericsson) in their list. If someone wants to make a point, they should do it with facts, not made up nonsense. If they're wrong, I can correct them.

Besides, even if you consider only Motorola Mobility, he's still wrong. Motorola Mobility makes a lot more than phones:
- weather radios
- set top boxes
- fitness devices
- baby monitors
- corded and cordless phones
- modems and gateways

No matter how you slice it, his statement was wrong.

Your statement is wrong too. Google announced the sale of it's Motorola Mobility Home Division, which included the set-top boxes you refer to, last December for a bit more than $2B. It may also have included the baby monitors. land-line phones and modems but I've not bothered to verify that. I know you appreciate the correction since that's what you want all of us to do, politely of course.

If you're scrambling to prove you're still right since the sale hasn't close yet, I'll save you the time and effort. The sale was completed in April.
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/28/13 at 6:28am
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post #53 of 137

Oh, I see the confusion here;

 

 

 

Quote:
Strategy Analytics had to compare Samsung's entire PC and device business with only half of Apple's.Strategy Analytics had to compare Samsung's entire PC and device business with only half of Apple's.

 

Strategy Analytics got their figures by comparing them TWICE!

post #54 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Your statement is wrong too. Google announced the sale of it's Motorola Mobility Home Division, which included the set-top boxes you refer to, last December for a bit more than $2B. It may also have included the baby monitors. land-line phones and modems but I've not bothered to verify that. I know you appreciate the correction since that's what you want all of us to do, politely of course.

If you're scrambling to prove you're still right since the sale hasn't close yet, I'll save you the time and effort. The sale was completed in April.

Go to the Motorola Mobility site - they still list all those other products (baby monitors, set top boxes, cable modems, etc) on their site.

Furthermore, what in the world does that have to do with the analysis that people are trying to do based on HISTORICAL numbers?
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post #55 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Your statement is wrong too. Google announced the sale of it's Motorola Mobility Home Division, which included the set-top boxes you refer to, last December for a bit more than $2B. It may also have included the baby monitors. land-line phones and modems but I've not bothered to verify that. I know you appreciate the correction since that's what you want all of us to do, politely of course.

If you're scrambling to prove you're still right since the sale hasn't close yet, I'll save you the time and effort. The sale was completed in April.

 

I don't know the exact argument here being discussed, but I noticed this list;

 

 

Quote:
Besides, even if you consider only Motorola Mobility, he's still wrong. Motorola Mobility makes a lot more than phones:
- weather radios
- set top boxes
- fitness devices
- baby monitors
- corded and cordless phones
- modems and gateways

Weather radios and baby monitors? Other than set top boxes (which is iffy) and, well really nothing on that list anymore - - this doesn't seem like a thriving growth industry to be in.

 

Now a cordless buggy whip -- that has potential!

post #56 of 137

Note that Google cancelled its ambitious "Android TV" and went with the less exciting "ChromeTV" and likely they are selling it at a loss for $35.

If they are selling off Motorola Mobility and it's crown jewel is "set top boxes" -- it's clear that Google is looking at companies like Apple making the next generation of Smart TV devices (standalone, rather than coupled with the display) as the future.

 

They haven't gone out and said; "Apple will own the smart TV business" -- but all their actions show they have read the tea leaves and realize they can't compete at the top and there is no future growth in Motorola Mobility.

 

My apologies to anyone who has bought this lemon, but I bought a bunch of stock a long time ago in Lucent -- I feel your pain.

post #57 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsun Zu View Post

I am not a fan of these Market Research Firms or Consulting Firms. They regulalry misguide general people and their customers alike. It's a shame people refuse to think themselves and outsource that to other who are clearly incompetent.

 

I always thought Gartner is the prime culprit. Look here (http://www.zdnet.com/why-does-the-it-industry-continue-to-listen-to-gartner-7000001394/). The conclusion is a classic: In early 2009, Gartner projects “sharpest unit decline in history.” At the end of the year, it reports “strongest growth rate in seven years.”

 

Now, it seems Strategy Analytics is fighting for the crown.

LOL. I agree with you.

 

I believe it used to be called "Gartner Group" -- but then his dog died, and it's hard to group one dude on a laptop. He gives the best industry opinions you can buy, and his rates are reasonable if you want him to change his mind.

post #58 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Go to the Motorola Mobility site - they still list all those other products (baby monitors, set top boxes, cable modems, etc) on their site.

Furthermore, what in the world does that have to do with the analysis that people are trying to do based on HISTORICAL numbers?

Sorry. I thought you suggested that when posters get their facts wrong it should be pointed out. So this is the way you respond to a correction then? I usually offer a thank you, and a touch of humility.
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post #59 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsun Zu View Post

 

Actually, they don't if you consider the right Motorola.

 

From Wikipedia: "On February 11, 2010, Motorola announced its separation into two independent, publicly traded companies, effective Q1 2011. The official split occurred at around 12:00 pm EST on January 4, 2011. The two new companies are called Motorola Mobility (owned by Google; cell phone and cable television equipment company) and Motorola Solutions (NYSEMSI; Government and Enterprise Business)."

 

And if you think Motorola's Set Top Box business is significant: "On April 17, ARRIS Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: ARRS) announced that it completed its acquisition of the Motorola Home business from a subsidiary of Google Inc."

 

So, now Motorola Mobility is selling cellphones only. And not making a lot of them either:)

Let me narrow down your quote now....
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsun Zu View Post
 Motorola Mobility (owned by Google
; cell phone and cable television equipment company)
So, now Motorola Mobility is selling cellphones only. And not making a lot of them either:)

WHAT? THIS MAKES NO SENSE."

Please, PLEASE, If your going to say things, try to make them, well, understandable.

-QAMF

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post #60 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But these Samsung phones break easily, causing an increase in their numbers ¡

They certainly don't... If anything, the most accident prone phones I have found based on my experience walking around is iPhone and iPod Touch break the most.  Well, the glass cracks.

I have had an iPhone 4 for about 3 years, and no problems.... It makes me wonder how people break them.... *sighs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Sorry. I thought you suggested that when posters get their facts wrong it should be pointed out. So this is the way you respond to a correction then? I usually offer a thank you, and a touch of humility.

You obviously should have been able to read his mind and know what me meant.

DUH
/s

-QAMF

 

Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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post #61 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

So, when the numbers look good for Apple, you're happy to declare that Apple takes the lion share of smartphone profits but now that they might look good for Samsung.... it's impossible to calculate anyone's profits accurately?

Funny stuff. 1biggrin.gif


Just let them bark for a while.  They are in the "denial" phase of the five stage of grief -- their grief will be manifestated in anger, depression, bargaining and acceptance as Samsung's rising profit triumphs Apple declining profit.  lol.gif  Apple 4Q is going to suffer further decline in anticipation of new product release in 1Q 2014.

post #62 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Go to the Motorola Mobility site - they still list all those other products (baby monitors, set top boxes, cable modems, etc) on their site.

 

Not set top boxes.  They sold that division already.  And it looks like they stopped making MotoNav GPS units as well (?).   But you're right about the other products still being listed on the Motorola Mobility website:

 

 

Apparently parts of the website are out of date, though.  It's difficult to tell what's real and what's not, since the "About Us" section still lists set top boxes, for example, and we know that division has been sold off.

 

They aren't even using their new logo yet.

 

 

They had the same problem back when Motorola Solutions bought Symbol.  For a while, it was difficult to figure out where to go to get more info.  Their websites are a mess.

post #63 of 137

Very good article. Samsung will never surpass Apple, no matter how much they copy Apple's ideas.

post #64 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Not set top boxes.  They sold that division already.  And it looks like they stopped making MotoNav GPS units as well (?).  

Yup, discontinued. Buyers were not happy at the very quiet abandonment either.

EDIT: I had forgotten about a review I had done on the Motonav back in 2010. Blast from the past.
http://www.gpsreview.net/motorola-motonav-tn765t/
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/28/13 at 10:25am
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post #65 of 137

Yet another GREAT article!! Thank you Apple Insider! Keep up the good work! 1biggrin.gif

 

...also the number of dodgy Bloggers, "Journalists" and "Analysts" out there is quite alarming. Or perhaps they're being paid to write this BS? Even the thought of this is scary...

post #66 of 137

the real question now is how many of the web sites that hyped this bogus SA report now post a follow up about its "flaws" (aka, lies).

 

haven't seen any yet, have you? what a surprise ...

post #67 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedone View Post

Of course they could. They could have put out a mid price and/or low price option to blunt the entry of Samsung (and others) into the marketplace.

No. They certainly don't have to make terrible devices if they don't want to. They do not have to compromise their beliefs to compete with someone who stole everything they make from Apple.
Quote:
…giving incentive for vendors to open stores, kiosks, and for carriers (with hidden rebates) to push Samsung models over Apple's.

See, that was going to happen anyway, because every telecom is paid to push Android over iOS.
Quote:
…but you are not going to have the profits of Ford…

Right; they'll have higher profits.
Quote:
and eventually you are going to be a niche provider.

Explains why marketshare keeps increasing, huh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architecton View Post

...also the number of dodgy Bloggers, "Journalists" and "Analysts" out there is quite alarming. Or perhaps they're being paid to write this BS? Even the thought of this is scary…

Though we do have proof of it happening…
post #68 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


SonyEricsson no longer exists, Sony make phones, Ericsson make network equipment.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Sorry, when people get facts wrong, they need to be corrected. They also included a non-existient company (Sony-Ericsson) in their list. If someone wants to make a point, they should do it with facts, not made up nonsense. If they're wrong, I can correct them.

Besides, even if you consider only Motorola Mobility, he's still wrong. Motorola Mobility makes a lot more than phones:
- weather radios
- set top boxes
- fitness devices
- baby monitors
- corded and cordless phones
- modems and gateways

No matter how you slice it, his statement was wrong.

 

Read the report I originally referred to, which was a report from 2010.  Sony Ericsson did exist in 2010.  As for Motorola, I already linked to their 2010 financial results, which clearly distinguishes between the two different parts of the company.  

post #69 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

"The hedge fund managers are tremendously fearful that Apple has lost its touch and they can make a lot more money by backing legitimate companies like Amazon where they know they've got a sure thing when they see it. Apple is too iffy an investment. Hedge funds only back sure things."
 

Well you certainly have a very 'interesting' understanding of Wall Street and the market. Amazon is a legitimate company but AMZN is not a 'sure thing'. Hey but keep that tin foil on your head, wash your hands constantly..whatever it takes,  and your investments will be safe. Thanks for the laugh regardless.

post #70 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

So, when the numbers look good for Apple, you're happy to declare that Apple takes the lion share of smartphone profits but now that they might look good for Samsung.... it's impossible to calculate anyone's profits accurately?

Funny stuff. 1biggrin.gif

Apple and Samsung make pretty much all the profits in mobile devices right now. It's a duopoly. It might actually be a big deal when and if Samsung surpasses Apple since the latter has taken a high-end only strategy while the former sells all things to all people. Apple's historical strategy has been to eschew market share for profits. But if it is possible to have both then Apple might rethink its strategy.
post #71 of 137
PED picks up DED story

Philip Elmer-DeWitt runs a summary of Daniel Eran Dilger's piece, picks up some nice conspiracy-minded commentary about Strategy Analytics, here:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/07/28/apple-samsung-profits-dilger/

Unusual for him on a weekend, I think. The consensus seems to be that Apple is getting trashed for not buying into the PR machine.
Edited by Flaneur - 7/28/13 at 11:00am
post #72 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by eponymous View Post

Read the report I originally referred to, which was a report from 2010.  Sony Ericsson did exist in 2010.  As for Motorola, I already linked to their 2010 financial results, which clearly distinguishes between the two different parts of the company.  

No, the Motorola part didn't refer to phones. It referred to Motorola Mobility results which, as has been pointed out, in 2010 included set top boxes, baby monitors, cable modems, and a bunch of other things.

And that's even if you accept that "motorola" meant "motorola mobility".
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #73 of 137

Anyone interested, here is the guy that wrote "Samsung Takes Apple's Crown as Most Profitable Handset Vendor in Q2 2013"

 

Though one might have a better chance on Twitter

 
post #74 of 137
What most dont seam to understamd is.. That these headlines and most apple bashing reports are concorted work of samsung.. Google... Comcast...MS ... Through bribed bashers.
They resort to these lowlife tactics of misinformation to change perception of the consumer .
Some like to rise above to prove they are better.
Some( like the above mentioned losers ) like to lower others to look good relative to them.
post #75 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

... but now that they might look good for Samsung ...

The keyword is "MIGHT". That is exactly what this article is all about. It seems you don't get your own words. Funny stuff.
post #76 of 137
Who cares?
post #77 of 137
The American media loves Samsung and hates Apple, fact.
post #78 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula66 View Post

The American media loves Samsung and hates Apple, fact.

Really? Then why is it that the 'American media' is at every Apple product launch and never at a Samsung one?
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post #79 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Really? Then why is it that the 'American media' is at every Apple product launch and never at a Samsung one?

Just shut up.
post #80 of 137
Love this, D.E. Dilger you are always the best....
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