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Samsung Electronics has not dethroned Apple, Inc. in mobile profits - Page 3

post #81 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


You can say a lot about Samsung but their phones don't break easily. When I had my Samsung Note I must have dropped it about a half a dozen times without so much as a scratch. My daughter has had to replace her iPhone three times already due to cracked screens. 

 

Uh-huh?

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post #82 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedone View Post

 but it's a very large segment of the market which Apple has simply GIVEN AWAY by not competing in it.

 

Don't you mean Nokia?

 

Nokia was number one handset manufacturer for many years, Samsung was stalking them long before Apple came along and disrupted the market.

 

Fat lot of good it did Nokia.

 

So why should Apple go down the same low profit/loss making route?

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post #83 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

The discussion was "how much they're making." Motorola loses money. $342 million in the last quarter. 

Now, now.  Motorola does make something exceptional well.

 

Red ink.

post #84 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Nonsense. You didn't say "Motorola Mobility". You said "Motorola" - which makes an enormous range of products.

Please, when people say Apple, you can infer we don't mean Apple Corps.
post #85 of 137

Yes, last year Motorola "only" lost $100 million in the quarter.

 

Recently Motorola has been investing heavily into their Fort Worth factory, where they plan to build the first US assembled smartphone, the Moto X.    It's reportedly creating 2,000 new jobs.

 

Even so, they still have $3.2 billion in cash reserves, so if they had to, they could continue for up to several years burning through that.   Hopefully they won't have to.

post #86 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Forget all the fine details. Everyone is happy to hear that Samsung is beating the crap out of Apple in profits whether it's actually true or not. Let them enjoy the doom-ation of Apple if it makes them happy. Wall Street certainly doesn't care one way or another. Wall Street only knows that Apple's ass is being beaten in market share by Samsung and that's enough to perpetually keep Apple's share price down in the toilet. The hedge fund managers are tremendously fearful that Apple has lost its touch and they can make a lot more money by backing legitimate companies like Amazon where they know they've got a sure thing when they see it. Apple is too iffy an investment. Hedge funds only back sure things.

One thing for certain, Apple should never have let Samsung get even close to them. Apple should never have allowed Samsung to dominate the smartphone market in less than a year. Apple pulled a bonehead move by not doing anything for nearly nine months. What's the point of Apple having a mountain of reserve cash if they're not going to use it to protect themselves from weaker rivals. Samsung will soon own the bottom, the mid-tier and maybe even the top-tier smartphone market without even breaking a sweat. Samsung can put out six models of smartphones for every one Apple puts out. Each having a different feature that's better than whatever feature the iPhone has.

Well, good luck, Apple. You're going to have to beat off Samsung with a stick because everything Apple does, Samsung is going to copy it and add more features and then sell it for less money. Wall Street loves that price undercutting strategy and that's why Amazon is so favored by Wall Street investors.

Still not quite sure why it's Apple's fault that you haven't learned to buy low and sell high.

1rolleyes.gif

The stock market isn't the place to put you money if you don't know what you're doing.
post #87 of 137
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post #88 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

So, when the numbers look good for Apple, you're happy to declare that Apple takes the lion share of smartphone profits but now that they might look good for Samsung.... it's impossible to calculate anyone's profits accurately?

Funny stuff. 1biggrin.gif

I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.

post #89 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by eponymous View Post

All of the companies in the report you linked to above are mobile phone companies:  RIM, Motorola, Nokia, HTC, and Sony Ericsson.  Relatively easy to see how much they're making because phones are all they make.  Samsung is a whole different beast.  But I suspect you already know that.  Funny stuff indeed.  

Nokia makes a lot more than just phones
post #90 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ballmer View Post

I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.

 

I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.

 

If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits

post #91 of 137
One of the highlighted journalists (David Murphy at PC Mag) has written a follow up piece, mentioning this article and being called out in it.

http://mobile.pcmag.com/#!/article/51f57c627b1eac48f40c88de-strategy-analytics-claims-of-samsung-apple-profits-draw-controversy

Closest we come to an apology in journalism land, I guess.

He still left his follow up kind of unfinished and ambiguous in its (somewhat corrected) conclusions. Oh well.

Good job getting the attention of at least one of the 'big boys' anyway. Hopefully the reevaluation will propagate further!
Edited by tribalogical - 7/28/13 at 4:07pm
post #92 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Just shut up.

I will not. Am I wrong? Fact is Apple gets tons of press coverage both good and bad.
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post #93 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.

 

If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits

 

But DED didn't say that about Samsung, a point you seem intent on ignoring.  He said it about a group of companies from 2010 that were PRIMARILY phone companies, and therefore it is much easier to tell how much money they were making from phones (as well as Motorola MOBILITY'S massive business in:  weather radios, set top boxes, fitness devices, baby monitors, corded and cordless phones, modems and gateways) (/s).  Samsung, as I've already said, is a totally different beast.  

post #94 of 137
Thanks for the link but I'm not sure that does anything for my own personal observations. I'm sure Samsung has it's fair share of screen mishaps but all I can do is give you what I have seen personally. I was also responding to a comment made by someone stating that all Samsung phones are poorly built. I haven't owned all Samsung phones just the S2 and the Note but I felt that this poster was trolling. However since you brought up a lookie here I told you response It still doesn't stop me from noticing an alarming amount of cracked iPhone screens. I'm sure people on this forum take meticulous care of their devices. However I really don't think there is a week that goes by where I don't notice at least 2 cracked iPhone screens, especially when I'm taking the train to and from work. The Samsung Note is probably made a little tougher then the Samsung S3 as pointed out in your looky here link, I don't know, maybe it's a exception to the rule with Samsung, I just don't know. I shouldn't have generalized all Samsung phones being tough either, won't happen again. Just the Note and S2.

When we bought my daughter her iPhone the sales girl made it a point to suggest us getting the extra screen protection insurance. My husband sniffing out a scam as he has never had a cracked screen on his iPhone told her it wouldn't be necessary but she pushed and showed us a list of iPhone's that came in for the year thus far for repairs, she also said that 1 out of 4 iPhones have to have their screens repaired and showed us their statistics. As to why she showed us these number, Orange (our Swiss carrier) have gotten many complaints and corporate is just covering their behinds, Swisscom and Sunrise the other two major carriers in Switzerland have also started doing this. Another interesting thing is the iPhone is the only phone with this kind of insurance that only covers the screens, it has since be augmented and the insurance now covers everything including theft.

Curious, I even started asking people with cracked screens on the train as to what had happened, more then half of them end the story with it's not the first time. My daughter has already had hers repaired 3 times, the most recent incident happened with only a half meter drop from a stool while sitting, it had a case on it as well. My boys Nokia 820 has fallen out of his pocket multiple times, even once while riding his bicycle, it bounced twice with only a scratch to the case.

Again, this is only my personal experience, I'm sure you'll come back with slur of links proving that this kind of thing is rare, which is great as I hope this is the case. I'm not calling the iPhone a bad phone either, both my daughter and husband seem to love theirs and rightfully so. As I no longer have any mobile devices made by Samsung their is zero cause for me to be making this up.

Here are my two looky here links so as to feel not left out.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/quarter-of-iphones-have-a-broken-screen-says-new-poll-50010370/
http://www.phonearena.com/news/23-of-Apple-iPhone-screens-are-cracked-according-to-a-survey_id39628
Edited by Relic - 7/28/13 at 7:02pm
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post #95 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ballmer View Post

I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.

 

Let's not go overboard.  Obviously the numbers are not "pure guesswork" out of nowhere.  They all involve at least some analysis derived from known factors.

 

Some researchers have established numbers checks at import offices and warehouses, which can give very accurate shipment numbers where that's being done.  Some poll store managers.  Some use exit surveys at stores to determine end user sales.  Some have the equivalent of "Nielson families" to draw upon.  Some use phone surveys.

 

In other words, their numbers can't just be summarily dismissed.  They're least good enough for rough comparisons. Plus, if we ignored all analysis numbers, we'd have nothing to talk about :)

 

--

 

Yes, Apple tells a little more than most.  At the same time, Apple holds back the really important info that would aid competitors.  For example, what are the sales for each individual model type?   What are the sales to carriers vs. sales to other retailers vs. direct store sales?   We only "know" these from analyses.

 

Apple holds back such info for the same reason that their competitors do.  To keep from giving info that others might take advantage of.
 

So perhaps the big question should not be why does everyone else keep sales close to their vest, but rather why does Apple give out sales/shipment totals?  Pride?  Sales often drop after a debut and that's not happy info to give out.  Is it because their entire business is based on comparatively few products, and thus easier to figure out anyway?  Is it because they feel like sales guesses would hurt them more than other companies?   Any ideas?

post #96 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Thanks for the link but I'm not sure that does anything for my own personal observations. I'm sure Samsung has it's fair share of screen mishaps but all I can do is give you what I have seen personally. I was also responding to a comment made by someone stating that all Samsung phones are poorly built. I haven't owned all Samsung phones just the S2 and the Note but I felt that this poster was trolling. However since you brought up a lookie here I told you response It still doesn't stop me from noticing an alarming amount of cracked iPhone screens. I'm sure people on this forum take meticulous care of their devices. However I really don't think there is a week that goes by where I don't notice at least 2 cracked iPhone screens, especially when I'm taking the train to and from work. The Samsung Note is probably made a little tougher then the Samsung S3 as pointed out in your looky here link, I don't know, maybe it's a exception to the rule with Samsung, I just don't know. I shouldn't have generalized all Samsung phones being tough either, won't happen again. Just the Note and S2.

When we bought my daughter her iPhone the sales girl made it a point to suggest us getting the extra screen protection insurance. My husband sniffing out a scam as he has never had a cracked screen on his iPhone told her it wouldn't be necessary but she pushed and showed us a list of iPhone's that came in for the year thus far for repairs, she also said that 1 out of 4 iPhones have to have their screens repaired and showed us their statistics. As to why she showed us these number, Orange (our Swiss carrier) have gotten many complaints and corporate is just covering their behinds, Swisscom and Sunrise the other two major carriers in Switzerland have also started doing this. Another interesting thing is the iPhone is the only phone with this kind of insurance that only covers the screens, it has since be augmented and the insurance now covers everything including theft.

Curious, I even started asking people with cracked screens on the train as to what had happened, more then half of them end the story with it's not the first time. My daughter has already had hers repaired 3 times, the most recent incident happened with only a half meter drop from a stool while sitting, it had a case on it as well. My boys Nokia 820 has fallen out of his pocket multiple times, even once while riding his bicycle, it bounced twice with only a scratch to the case.

Again, this is only my personal experience, I'm sure you'll come back with slur of links proving that this kind of thing is rare, which is great as I hope this isn't the case. I'm not calling the iPhone a bad phone either, both my daughter and husband seem love theirs. As I know longer have any mobile devices made by Samsung their is zero cause for me to be making this up.

Here are my two looky here links so as to feel not left out.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/quarter-of-iphones-have-a-broken-screen-says-new-poll-50010370/
http://www.phonearena.com/news/23-of-Apple-iPhone-screens-are-cracked-according-to-a-survey_id39628

I thought it was just me, but I see cracked iPhones all the time as of late. I always tell them that it's like a $80 fix.
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post #97 of 137
@relic—I have to agree that the 4/4S design is too vulnerable and i'm knocking on wood while I say that I amazingly haven't broken mine yet, as many times as it has fallen out of a shirt pocket when I check a tire or whatever. Always in a case, lately in a silicone bumper which leaves both sides of glass exposed, but still no break over two years.

Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.

A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?

Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.
Edited by Flaneur - 7/28/13 at 6:44pm
post #98 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

@relicI have to agree that the 4/4S design is too vulnerable and i'm knocking on wood while I say that I amazingly haven't broken mine yet, as many times as it has fallen out of a shirt pocket when I check a tire or whatever. Always in a case, lately in a silicone bumper which leaves both sides of glass exposed, but still no break over two years.

Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.

A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?

Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.

I was looking at the Moto X earlier and the glass actually curves around the edges. I'm wondering how much of a recipe for disaster that is?


Edited by dasanman69 - 7/28/13 at 6:50pm
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post #99 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I thought it was just me, but I see cracked iPhones all the time as of late. I always tell them that it's like a $80 fix.

Why did you think it was just you?

Because you're lying, that's why.
post #100 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Why did you think it was just you?

Because you're lying, that's why.

I've just never heard anyone else mention it. The 4/4S have been out for quite some time and it's only in the last 6 months that I've seen so many cracked ones. I just kinda thought it was like when you buy a car or want to buy one and you suddenly see them all the time. Btw why would I lie about something so innocuous? If I was going to lie it'll be a big one not a little bitty white one.
Edited by dasanman69 - 7/28/13 at 7:09pm
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post #101 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

@relic—I have to agree that the 4/4S design is too vulnerable and i'm knocking on wood while I say that I amazingly haven't broken mine yet, as many times as it has fallen out of a shirt pocket when I check a tire or whatever. Always in a case, lately in a silicone bumper which leaves both sides of glass exposed, but still no break over two years.

Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.

A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?

Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.

I normally don't like pointing out faults in Apple hardware on this forum as it's very counter productive, you open yourself up to a magnitude of criticism. This issue though doesn't seem to be discussed very often, like a bad nose job that everyone sees but no one says anything. I'm sure the majority of people here take very good care of their devises to avoid such mishaps. I did also notice that the majority of the cracked iPhone users seem to be 25 and under. I always recommend a Nokia phone to Parents and people with a very active life, say what you will about the OS but the build quality is undeniably fantastic, those things can be shot out of cannon and you'll still be able to make a phone call.

The barrel came with the house, though it was used as a rain collector originally, which would then in return be used in the garden through a copper pump that was attached on top. My husband just borrowed a neighbors portable jigsaw and went to town on creating a bigger opening. The dogs name is Nanook after the 1922 Robert J Flaherty documentary, Nanook Of The North. Story about huskies pulling sleds across the icy cold tundra. I rescued her as a puppy in Finland where she was found sleeping in the bathtub in the hotel we were staying at. The hotel staff had no idea how the little thing got in there or if it was left behind intentionally. All I know is once the kids found her there was no giving her up. She's been a great dog, very lovable, I personally use her a lot as a pillow while I'm watching TV or reading a book, that is until she passes gas because I'm laying on her stomach, stinky.
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post #102 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula66 View Post

The American media loves Samsung and hates Apple, fact.

In addition, Samsung has more real technological advances, or firsts, or interesting designs to talk about than Apple does.  In terms of interest per action, Apple IS FAR ahead of Samsung, or most other companies.

Apple tends to go with technology that is tried and true as opposed to going into newer technologies.  They often get things done better than others, but they don't do it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Really? Then why is it that the 'American media' is at every Apple product launch and never at a Samsung one?

Depends, are you talking the media, or the tech media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Just shut up.

Why?  Apple does get lots of hype for doing stuff that everyone else did.  When has there ever been talk of 4" screens being so good, etc, etc, etc.  Never before the iPhone 5.  The Media focuses on Apple because they are a popular brand that makes solid (from software standpoint) products.

You seem to like to take a stance that anything that possibly doesn't agree with your perspective is worthless, or untrue.  It is not.

-Q

Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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post #103 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post



You seem to like to take a stance that anything that possibly doesn't agree with your perspective is worthless, or untrue.  It is not.


-Q

Actually, he only tells certain deserving people to shut up. Stick around and watch for awhile. You may see a pattern, depending on your own discernment. You sound like you've been around long enough to know this already.
Edited by Flaneur - 7/28/13 at 9:25pm
post #104 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I normally don't like pointing out faults in Apple hardware on this forum as it's very counter productive, you open yourself up to a magnitude of criticism. This issue though doesn't seem to be discussed very often, like a bad nose job that everyone sees but no one says anything. I'm sure the majority of people here take very good care of their devises to avoid such mishaps. I did also notice that the majority of the cracked iPhone users seem to be 25 and under. I always recommend a Nokia phone to Parents and people with a very active life, say what you will about the OS but the build quality is undeniably fantastic, those things can be shot out of cannon and you'll still be able to make a phone call.

The barrel came with the house, though it was used as a rain collector originally, which would then in return be used in the garden through a copper pump that was attached on top. My husband just borrowed a neighbors portable jigsaw and went to town on creating a bigger opening. The dogs name is Nanook after the 1922 Robert J Flaherty documentary, Nanook Of The North. Story about huskies pulling sleds across the icy cold tundra. I rescued her as a puppy in Finland where she was found sleeping in the bathtub in the hotel we were staying at. The hotel staff had no idea how the little thing got in there or if it was left behind intentionally. All I know is once the kids found her there was no giving her up. She's been a great dog, very lovable, I personally use her a lot as a pillow while I'm watching TV or reading a book, that is until she passes gas because I'm laying on her stomach, stinky.

Congrats to your husband. I think it's brilliant.
post #105 of 137

AppleInsider and DED.   Fantastic article.  To the point, factual and fully supported with facts.   

 

Apple is still DOOMED,  DOOMED I say.  We all know this.   Wall Street is sure that the Titanic will soon arrive and that Apple is Doomed.  And that Amazon will make everyone millions cause ..... well....... just cause.  If they don't go broke first. 

 

At this rate, AppleInsider and DED will be the only ones on the internet providing accurate information about Apple and the tech world. 

 

Just a thought. 

Norm

post #106 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I normally don't like pointing out faults in Apple hardware on this forum as it's very counter productive, you open yourself up to a magnitude of criticism. This issue though doesn't seem to be discussed very often, like a bad nose job that everyone sees but no one says anything. I'm sure the majority of people here take very good care of their devises to avoid such mishaps. I did also notice that the majority of the cracked iPhone users seem to be 25 and under..

You're being very kind here: I was about to post something similar, just the way I'd put it:

"I did also notice that the majority of the cracked iPhone users seem to be notorious drunks."

Typically girls and guys who go out clubbing, and then at 2 in the morning have some drama because their friends dumped them, or they want to text their and the pull out the phone fumble and it goes sliding down the street. In other words, of all the "party people" I know, probably 25% have a cracked screen, and about 0% of all the rest of the people I know (and they are by no means couch potatoes).

I've had an iPhone since the day the first one came out, and I dropped it more often than I can count, and except for a few minor scratches all are still fine, and not a single screen was damaged. Maybe the iPhone 5 is different, because Aluminum is softer than stainless steel, so a drop could deform the frame permanently more easily, and then leave the screen under tension, such that subsequent drops make the glass crack more easily.
post #107 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula66 View Post

The American media loves Samsung and hates Apple, fact.

The media loves money, and everything about Apple attracts views, clicks and thus money. Also, the good news get boring. Who wants to hear about another puppy being cute? But a cute puppy being intentionally trampled to death, THAT's news.
So bad news about a popular brand is just more sensational than the message "Apple is still the best out there...Yawn..."

In addition, there's the entire stock market trader bunch, which act not as investors, but gamblers. They all benefit when a stock makes wide swings, and particularly if they have a good chance of predicting these swings by influencing reporting by tapping into the above trend and delivering flawed commentary and analysis be that out of ignorance or malice, directly or indirectly by paying publicists. And Google & Co. certainly won't object to that game, either. Not the first time something like this happens, one just needs to remember all the scandals involving analysts, journalists and traders when the various other tech bubbles burst. But as usual, nobody gets indicted, because the regulators are all the same crooks, working for the same companies before and after their little excursion into government work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

In addition, Samsung has more real technological advances, or firsts, or interesting designs to talk about than Apple does.  In terms of interest per action, Apple IS FAR ahead of Samsung, or most other companies.

Apple tends to go with technology that is tried and true as opposed to going into newer technologies.  They often get things done better than others, but they don't do it first.

Don't confuse trinkets and novelty gadgetry with technological advances. "First to have a glowing home button", "First to have a phone that can sneeze", ... doesn't make for innovation, it's marketing gadgetry. Apple, reasonably successfully, tries to introduce new things that have lasting value for the platform and are there to stay, they do (used to do?) usability testing, etc.
Plenty of firsts in Apple products, but firsts that are not for show, but for improved usability.
If Apple weren't leading innovation, there wouldn't be the current patent mess, because Apple would steal from other companies, rather than the other way around.

NB: things like super-high mega-pixel cameras are in many ways a joke, because one can calculate the upper optical resolution for a lens of a certain diameter, a firm limit straight from the laws of Physics. And given the small lenses of typical smart phone cameras, the types of resolutions we're seeing mostly helps the memory manufacturers, not the actual image quality...
...similar things go for higher-than-retina resolution screens, which just eat battery life...
...or quad core chips that are total overkill for what a smart phone needs to do (heck my MBA runs just fine on a dual-core...)
...etc. etc.
post #108 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I thought it was just me, but I see cracked iPhones all the time as of late. I always tell them that it's like a $80 fix.

As compared to a $300 fix for Samsung Galaxy S III, 4 or Note screens.

My 3 year old iPhone 4 has never been cracked, although my wife often drops it, it's holding up a lot better than the LG Optimus she had before.

My iPhone 5 is coming up to a year, has been dropped and no cracked screen.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #109 of 137

Thanks for the interesting read.

post #110 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

As compared to a $300 fix for Samsung Galaxy S III, 4 or Note screens.

My 3 year old iPhone 4 has never been cracked, although my wife often drops it, it's holding up a lot better than the LG Optimus she had before.

My iPhone 5 is coming up to a year, has been dropped and no cracked screen.

Well consider yourself lucky then, great news.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #111 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But these Samsung phones break easily, causing an increase in their numbers ¡

You can say a lot about Samsung but their phones don't break easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

They certainly don't... If anything, the most accident prone phones I have found based on my experience walking around is iPhone and iPod Touch break the most.  Well, the glass cracks.


I have had an iPhone 4 for about 3 years, and no problems.... It makes me wonder how people break them.... *sighs*

Sorry guys, just my attempt at humor. Notice the sarc tag, too.

And you're right, Relic, scattered glass on iPhones all over the place. I guess that's also a reason people hand them over to kids as an iPod touch.
post #112 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Well consider yourself lucky then, great news.

Of course such expenses pale into insignificance when compared to the cost of servicing one of my Swiss watches, which cost way more than almost anything Apple sells...

...but what the hey, I like nice things.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #113 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

Depends, are you talking the media, or the tech media.

What does the general public see more of? And most the tech media uses iDevices.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #114 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


Still not quite sure why it's Apple's fault that you haven't learned to buy low and sell high.

1rolleyes.gif

The stock market isn't the place to put you money if you don't know what you're doing.

The stock market isn't the place to put your money if you know what you're doing. ;)

post #115 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ballmer View Post

I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.

Which Apple numbers are audited?

post #116 of 137
 
 
 
 
 
 

Another amazing article. Thanks.

 
 
post #117 of 137

Recently Apple in WWDC made the following comment “If everyone is busy making everything, how can anyone perfect anything?”
This is obviously directed at Samsung more than any other company.
Samsung uses the shotgun approach to product development. They “squirt” every conceivable combination and variation of a product that can be imagined… And some people have been wrongly calling this “innovation”.
The problem with wasting resources designing, developing, producing, and marketing, as many product variations as quickly as possible is that no single product gets the attention to detail and quality that it should receive.
This is the problem with Samsung’s smartphones and tablets. The quality level is sub-par compared to its competitors’ products.
Samsung can be compared to General Motors in the 1950 and 60s. Many models of cars were produced each year, and each year the design changed giving consumers the false impression that this year’s model was better than last year’s.
Apple can be compared to BMW, whose cars don’t change design radically or quickly, but the quality and attention to detail is unsurpassed (primarily because the company’s resources are focused on those areas rather than on making design changes as quickly as possible.
General Motors was highly successful with its “totally new car every year” strategy, but that success crumbled eventually when consumers started buying other cars that were higher quality and more efficient than the cars GM sold.
If you ever wonder why the iPhone has consistently had higher quality and customer satisfaction ratings than any other phone, and why iPhone owners are much more likely to buy another iPhone in the future than users of other phones would repeat their purchase choices, it’s because Apple’s product development and production has a very different focus than those of competitors.
Samsung, Nokia, Motorola and others were manufacturing feature phones for more than 15 years. Most of these manufacturers had relationships with all the 800 + mobile operators in the world. Samsung was making in house components as well. The average cost of the Feature Phone used to be close to $75 only. Total revenue of these feature Phones would be around $90 Billion in 2006 (http://www.cellular-news.com/story/21622.php). As per this report the following companies sold all the mobile phones in the world. market share and shipments is as follows:

Nokia               347,500,000         34.1%
Motorola          217,400,000           21.3%
Samsung          118,000.000              11.6%
Sony Ericsson  74,800,000            7.3%
LG                   64,400,000          6.3%
Others            197,800,000           19.4%
Total             1,019,900,000          100%

Total 1.2 billion Non Smartphones were sold in 2006 and their average price at $75 and total value around $90 Billion dollars.

Presently Apple's revenue for smartphones is Approx. around $90 Billion Dollars(total rev. 170 B for TTM , 52% of revenue) and net Profit is approx. $25 Billion TTM because average selling price of iPhone is around $600 for the last 12 months, even though it is $581 for the last quarter. Average Cost of making a iPhone is around $210 as per research reports. We were told in the conference call that the components price is going down for the older iPhones. Conservatively speaking even if Gross profit is around 50% on smartphones, the net Profit margin is at least 28% on smartphones only.

48% of the total revenue from Apple's Non Smartphone device like iPad, Macs, iTunes, Software Services & Accessories and their total revenue is around $80 Billion. 

The Gross Profit on these devices may be close to 25% and Net margin is around 16.25% for Non Smartphones(80B x 0.1625=13Billion). 

The net profit is approx. $13 Billion for Non Smartphone Devices(total profit=38B=25B IPhones+13 B Non iPhones). 

You will notice the growth rate of iTunes is averaging 30% and iPads around 30% for the last 12 months, even though last quarter iPad had no growth YOY(nine months since it is refreshed). 

Finally the average Net Profit Margin of Apple for last 12 months is 22.35% which is much better than Samsung & Google.

I have used Yahoo Finance to get some of my numbers. If you just refer Yahoo finance for Samsung, the net profit for the last 12 months is around 20 Billion & Net profit for Apple is around 38 Billion.

The estimated Net Profit for Apple Smartphones for the last 12 months is 25 Billion Dollars. 

 

Strategic Analytics mentioned 5.2 Billion Dollar in Operating Profits which includes Smartphones, featured Phones, Tablet, PC, Laptops and other items.

Even if you assume Samsung's Smartphone Profit is 60% of all its profits, then their net smartphone profit is around 12 billion dollars for the last 12 months. 

If you assume Apple & Samsung make 100% of all profits in smartphones then Apple makes 67% & Samsung makes 33% of all smartphone profits. 

Most of the media does try to mislead the investors by piling up negative stories which may not be relevant to the profitability of the company.

post #118 of 137

You wonder how this kind of garbage is allow to exist and why so many people especially with the internet where we all know not to believe anything we read anymore and only a faction of what you see. When this kind of garbage is found we need to begin call out the people who product this stuff and make sure the world knows these people have no clue what they do and they should be fired or humiliated to the best of the internet's ability.

 

Most time I do not both even looking but in this cast I was curious what kind of person could screw up simple comparison as this. Well I found the guy and once you read his bio you will see why. You would think someone with an EE degree know something about basic math.  You may understand  how someone from Big Business School would mess with the number to tell a story they wanted (it somehow makes them moeny. Well this guy never worked in the wireless industry and we lack any business background and they call him a Senior Analysis. Yeah he has and EE degree and its is obvious he never did no real engineering work leading to his in abilities to pay attention to the details that most all engineers exercise.

 

Here you go

 

 

Quote:

 

 

Senior Analyst   |     Neil Shah
Wireless Device Strategies
 

Neil Shah, Senior Analyst for the Strategy Analytics Wireless Device Strategies (WDS) service addresses the health of the global handset market, including key performance indicators of the top handset OEMs and a holistic view of the handset ecosystem. His interest and work ranges from informed qualitative and quantitative analysis on industry dynamics, company strategies, enabling technologies, wireless network standards, and market forecasts.

Mr. Shah brings nearly seven years of multifunctional experience covering a wide spectrum of technical and management functions. Starting at Philips Electronics India Ltd, Neil Shah was responsible for developing and executing service operations and channel marketing support strategies, with a short stint in a planning and procurement role for the Consumer Lifestyle products division. In the US, he has worked as a consultant for different industry verticals in devising and executing successful product management and marketing strategies, and completed a marketing research project for the Harvard Business School.

 

Mr. Shah is an IEEE Certified Wireless Professional. He holds a Masters in Telecommunications & Business from University of Maryland, College Park and a Bachelors in Electronics Engineering from University of Mumbai.

post #119 of 137
Given the mystery around some of Apple and Samsung's reporting, shipping and sales figures, Strategic Analytics used the available information that was out there. In essence, it was a best attempt at understanding the two companies with regard to the cell phone market. Daniel Dilger has presented all the information in a clear and careful rebuke of the original articles that have gone out, but he is a bit of a hypocrite because on many occasions he and people at AI have reported using information with shaky methodology. The difference here is, APPLE INSIDER writes glowing reports on everything APPLE.

Analysts make guesses all the time based on incomplete information with regard to the stock market and almost all political types of reporting. The Apple insider reporter, Daniel Eran Dilger reported that it was not true, when what he should have reported is, it was not proven otherwise, because as he stated, we just don't have all the facts available. I don't see what i wrong with trying to make educated guesses using experts in the field.

And lets be honest, i wonder that his agenda is working at APPLEINSIDER. If anyone can prove beyond all reasonable doubt, i'd be interested in hearing it.

As a journalist it normally an unwritten rule that you don't attack other journalists because of misguided reporting. Anyone with any decency would have contacted them individually out of courtesy to explain the mistake, if there even was one. Total bitter move by Daniel Dilger who is not the greatest reporter by any stretch of the imagination.
post #120 of 137

I think Daniel is absolutely right in talking about the article in business insider.  Apple does mention their total revenue and number of iPhones sold. We can exactly get the average price of the iPhone Sold and we know by research the exact cost of making an iPhone.  It is very easy to calculate the net profit of iPhone to be close to 30%.

 

In case of samsung which includes Smartphones, featured Phones, Tablet, PC, Laptops and other items.  Samsung does not mention the no of smartphones sold or the revenue from different Price segments at all.

 

Apple Competes with Samsung with a small percentage of consumers which is the high end.  Apple has not competed in the mid range and low range smartphones.  So it would be stupid to even include all mobile phones, Tablets, PC & Laptops as only smartphones revenue.
 

It would be nice if Busines Insider can specifically find the sales & profit of samsung in the same high end segment were Apple Competes.  You just cannot compare Apple & Oranges. If a BMW manufacturer cannot compete in the numbers of cars sold with low end cars comparatively to Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic and others.

 

I would suggest if Mr. Kovach from Business Insider can be truthful by comparing only in the specific Price Range Apple Competes.  

 

Apple has a brand advantage over all competitors. Google as a brand has almost no hardware footprint and the Samsung brand still lags behind Japanese brands like Sony. People will pay more for products because of the brand recognition, implied quality and physical appeal. Apple also has the highest brand loyalty and largest direct customer base. No company can compete with the iPad in education and business, because the availability of applications and early market lead. Apple has not soiled itself with the commodity smartphone market, but has chosen to own the high end of the market and let Android vendors fight for the commodity business. Apple owns the high value customers, which is obvious if you look at spending after purchase of apps and services. Apple's strategy of growing their base of loyal high value customers is working.

 

, we have recently learned that Samsung’s sales figures for the S4 are much lower than they have reported. This is not the first time that Samsung has over-reported sales for their products.

From a Reuters article titled “Samsung analysts ask hard questions as S4 marketing charm wears off”:

“Woori Investment & Securities, one of South Korea’s largest securities firms, cut its outlook for Samsung’s earnings and target share price on June 5. It was the first to adjust its view.

A massive wave of downgrades has since followed, with forecasters including JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs taking a harder look at their assumptions of how well the S4, Samsung’s latest Galaxy smartphone, would actually do.

Sales estimates for the S4 were slashed by as much as 30 percent, stirring investor concerns over Samsung’s mobile devices division – the company’s biggest profit generator.”

Previously, Samsung reported that 10 million S4′s “shipped” in the first month. This is the amount of S4′s that Samsung claims to have received orders for from resellers…. It is NOT the number of S4′s that were actually sold to end users, which as we’ve seen from the past, has been substantially lower than the number “shipped”.

In contrast, Apple gives actual sales figures for the iPhone, not units “shipped”. The iPhone 5 sold 5 Million to end users in the first 3 days, and that was in a limited number of countries before Apple expanded the distribution.

If, on the other hand, you were referring to “margins” as in “profit margins”, although Samsung has a lucrative business selling smartphones and tablets its profit margins are much lower than Apple’s on the iPhone and iPad. The majority of the profits from all smartphones sold worldwide are going to Apple.

There is a huge difference between “market share” and “profit share”. Anyone in business would be a lot less concerned about market share, and much more concerned about profit share.

The primary problem with using market share as a measure of business health is it provides no insight into the profitability of the product being sold.

John Kirk recently ran an article in which he asked and answered this simple question:

“Question: Company A has 25% market share and 75% profit share. Company Z has 75% market share and 25% profit share. Which company is doing better?

Answer: If you said anything other than company A, then you are dumber than a doorknob. Any intelligent person would take company A’s profit share over that of company Z’s market share.”

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