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Rumor: Photo may show retail packaging for Apple's low-cost "iPhone 5C" - Page 4

post #121 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If Apple had a huge defect rate wouldn't that ultimately show up in their financials? Wouldn't they have to expense all these defective iPhones?

This reminds me of all these shipped doesn't equal sold arguments but no one is ever able to show financial data on all these write offs of unsold phones.

Presumably:

1) They are not resold. They are taken apart by FoxConn.
2) Apple defers the cost to FoxConn. Or rather they don't pay FoxConn for defective phones, so the investigation should be in FoxConns financials, if any.

Of course there is a cost to Apple as these defects tend to happen in the first quarters of production, which Apple in their wisdom have decided to be in the busier part of the year, and so demand doesn't meet supply and customers are lost. Thats hard to estimate, because its a counter factual
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post #122 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickimsonik View Post

The name is really awful. Also it seems that Tim Cook doubled down on secrecy on products once again 1biggrin.gif

 

Isn't it obvious that "C" stands for "Cook" ?

 

lol.gif

post #123 of 217
The iPod strategy.

A cheaper iPhone would be the equivalent of the iPod Nano.

Makes sense.
post #124 of 217
It's called 5C because apple knows the 5S is experiencing major delays and will not be released this year. Might even be called the 6 once released next year... Think about it, if this phone was being released alongside the 5S, wouldn't we be seeing just as many leaks for that phone!? We aren't, and apple is saving face by at least releasing a iPhone-5 variant...
post #125 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

EDIT: So models this year - 2013/2014 - are the iPhone 6, and iPhone 5c. Next year, the iPhone 7, iPhone 6c, and the iPhone 5c.

Possibly also an iPhone 7s. Thats all they need, leaving the sub $300 market to Andoird.

One data point does not make a line.  

 

It's more like because of the shift away from the iPhone 4 and 4S, Apple has chosen to sell a cheaper iPhone 5 (the 5C) instead of keeping the 5 in its current form and also selling a 5S.  I expect he 5S to be exactly the same as the current 5's machined aluminum shell or a totally new design (less likely).  The 5C will allow apple to cut out the iPhone 4 and 4S and its fancy but expensive to produce chassis-frame design in favor of a much less expensive plastic case while still giving us the performance of the 5.

 

Don't expect it to be a trend, though.   

post #126 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

One data point does not make a line.  

It's more like because of the shift away from the iPhone 4 and 4S, Apple has chosen to sell a cheaper iPhone 5 (the 5C) instead of keeping the 5 in its current form and also selling a 5S.  I expect he 5S to be exactly the same as the current 5's machined aluminum shell or a totally new design (less likely).  The 5C will allow apple to cut out the iPhone 4 and 4S and its fancy but expensive to produce chassis-frame design in favor of a much less expensive plastic case while still giving us the performance of the 5.

Don't expect it to be a trend, though.   

Why wouldn't it be a trend? Are you saying next year they will go back to one model and the coloured line will be sold as the last years model, and the year after that its back to another one model, with the previous year's model being sold as the cheaper line dropping the coloured models?

Thats quite simply, nuts. This is a new product line.
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post #127 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko024 View Post

It's called 5C because apple knows the 5S is experiencing major delays and will not be released this year. Might even be called the 6 once released next year... Think about it, if this phone was being released alongside the 5S, wouldn't we be seeing just as many leaks for that phone!? We aren't, and apple is saving face by at least releasing a iPhone-5 variant...

The 5S probably looks like the 5. So it would be hard to show new pictures. And looking like the 5 means they know how to manufacture it.
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post #128 of 217
There is a rumor that the launch will be at an event on september 6th
post #129 of 217
So, if it is a "5" then we can expect it to have identical internals to the current iPhone 5. If Apple can pull that off for $0 for an 8GB version and $99 for 16GB, with $349 for 8GB version and $429 for 16GB, they will have pulled off a minor miracle. I would be surprised if it did have a "5" in the name. I would be less surprised if the 5S replaced by a 5C, or that these were misprinted, and are in the reject bin.
post #130 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Why wouldn't it be a trend? Are you saying next year they will go back to one model and the coloured line will be sold as the last years model, and the year after that its back to another one model, with the previous year's model being sold as the cheaper line dropping the coloured models?

Thats quite simply, nuts. This is a new product line.

How can one point in time be a trend?

I'm not saying anything about the future except the very near future.  Nothing about 2014/15.

 

If there's anything about Apple we know, is that we don't know until it happens.  Unless it's leaked.  And then it's not confirmed until it actually happens.

 

Of course the 5C is a new model.  But that doesn't mean it won't reuse the same processor and be the same speed equivalent as the current 5.  Compare the iPad mini to the iPad 2 as an example.

 

Either way, I predict all iPhone 4 models to be dropped.

post #131 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

There is a rumor that the launch will be at an event on september 6th

 

http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/07/26/the-rumored-iphone-sept-6-launch/

post #132 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

… Don't expect it to be a trend, though.   

 

You have nothing to support this statement.  

post #133 of 217

I don't get the 'belly aching', if you don't want a more affordable iPhone then just get the flagship model.

I think they are getting rid of people excuses for not getting one "iPhone being too expensive".

Lets face it, apple don't often release a product that isn't completely polished & shmick.
Really tho, i hope the lite or C does come out.

post #134 of 217

If so it probably won't have iOS 7, but there is no need to couple hardware and software releases. In fact with multiple hardware lines they should be decoupled.
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post #135 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko024 View Post

It's called 5C because apple knows the 5S is experiencing major delays and will not be released this year. Might even be called the 6 once released next year... Think about it, if this phone was being released alongside the 5S, wouldn't we be seeing just as many leaks for that phone!? We aren't, and apple is saving face by at least releasing a iPhone-5 variant...

You mention an interesting point. Leaks for the presumably higher end model are where?
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #136 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I don't get the 'belly aching', if you don't want a more affordable iPhone then just get the flagship model.

I think they are getting rid of people excuses for not getting one "iPhone being too expensive".

Lets face it, apple don't often release a product that isn't completely polished & shmick.
Really tho, i hope the lite or C does come out.

 

For me it has more to do with what Apple is doing to their brand. As an enthusiast for Apple, a cheap looking plastic phone does concern me.

 

Contrary to some others, I have always supported the idea of a cheaper iPhone and I supported the idea of the iPad Mini unlike some other enthusiast here.

 

But my vision of a cheaper iPhone is NOT cheap looking plastic. Why wouldn't Apple instead just use the anodized aluminum they have been using in their $50 iPods? Whats with the cheap looking plastic?

 

They honestly wouldn't save much money using plastic, and the plastic also has the negative affect of devaluing their brand identity IMO. It's not worth it, especially if their still going to price this device north of $400.

post #137 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Right now, as an iPhone 5 owner, I want an iPhone 5C MORE than I want a 5S.

I'm really sick of the iPhone 5's design. I feel (as pretty as it may be) that it is economically flawed, scratches too easy, dents too easy, and becomes too bulky with a case.

The iPhone 5C, much like the 3G & 3GS, does not need a case at all. And is actually thinner than an iPhone 5 wearing a case or bumper.

Apple would have to blow me away with performance and new features of the 5S to convince me to go that route instead of just getting a 5C. This is the design I actually want.

I'm kind of with you on this pmz....It's all about the "jeans test!" A little iPhone in white plastic, that weighs the same (or less) than the iP5 is what I will go for....Along with an iPad Mini, new TimeCapsule, iCloud/Dropbox and an ATV. I'm golden! :)

post #138 of 217

Just glad they didn't call it the iPhone Lite. That sounded like something with the blurb "as seen on TV" or "Just pay shipping and handling"

 

As guesses go, I predicted it would be called the colorful new iPhone 5, I thought about C, but for all of the mocking here, felt there was no way. Calling it an iPhone 5 makes a lot of sense tho, with a C or not. It tells the public that is is every bit as sophisticated as the current iPhone 5, just in a colorful plastic casing. Simple. Affordable. Profitable, Everybody Wins.

 

And as long as I am keeping score, I predicted months ago that they HAD to get rid of the aluminum 5 once the 5s was released. Not for any other reason that it NEVER made sense selling the difficult to make previous iPhones and sell them at entry level prices. NEVER made sense. And as predictions go, mine are also usually 99% better than analysts with supposed insider information that get paid to do it.
 

post #139 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

Just glad they didn't call it the iPhone Lite. That sounded like something with the blurb "as seen on TV" or "Just pay shipping and handling"

As guesses go, I predicted it would be called the colorful new iPhone 5, I thought about C, but for all of the mocking here, felt there was no way. Calling it an iPhone 5 makes a lot of sense tho, with a C or not. It tells the public that is is every bit as sophisticated as the current iPhone 5, just in a colorful plastic casing. Simple. Affordable. Profitable, Everybody Wins.

And as long as I am keeping score, I predicted months ago that they HAD to get rid of the aluminum 5 once the 5s was released. Not for any other reason that it NEVER made sense selling the difficult to make previous iPhones and sell them at entry level prices. NEVER made sense. And as predictions go, mine are also usually 99% better than analysts with supposed insider information that get paid to do it.

 

Not only that but old phones sold by Apple compete with their own second hand market. Which reduces sales by Apple.
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post #140 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Well, unless you consider $1799 to be "under ~$2000" as most people would. Or you could buy a refurb for $1449.

 

Yes, and $1,999.99 is less than $2000. Sorry, I forgot the audience. Do please focus on the details while ignoring the overall point. 1oyvey.gif

 

In this particular jurisdiction, $1800 becomes MORE than $2000 after Provincial and Federal taxes, but y'know, ignore that and just be pedantic because that's more fun than addressing the actual point, which is a discussion of whether or not there's a viable market for a less expensive 15".

 

There are people who want a laptop rather than a tablet for various reasons (easier to type, runs Photoshop, don't have to hold it), and obviously lots of people prefer a 15" screen over the 13", but it hurts to drop even $1500 on a machine someone will use for web surfing, email and light photo manipulation.

 

I don't imagine a 15" Air would be all that popular since it sorta defeats the slim/compact/light point of that machine, but maybe they can do what they're rumored to be doing with the iPhone, which is make a device in a similar form factor but designed for lower cost. The $1000 white plastic MacBook sold really well. I miss that.

post #141 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Yes, and $1,999.99 is less than $2000. Sorry, I forgot the audience. Do please focus on the details while ignoring the overall point. 1oyvey.gif

 

In this particular jurisdiction, $1800 becomes MORE than $2000 after Provincial and Federal taxes, but y'know, ignore that and just be pedantic because that's more fun than addressing the actual point, which is a discussion of whether or not there's a viable market for a less expensive 15".

 

There are people who want a laptop rather than a tablet for various reasons (easier to type, runs Photoshop, don't have to hold it), and obviously lots of people prefer a 15" screen over the 13", but it hurts to drop even $1500 on a machine someone will use for web surfing, email and light photo manipulation.

 

I don't imagine a 15" Air would be all that popular since it sorta defeats the slim/compact/light point of that machine, but maybe they can do what they're rumored to be doing with the iPhone, which is make a device in a similar form factor but designed for lower cost. The $1000 white plastic MacBook sold really well. I miss that.

 

Not to step in but you're being ridiculous.  

 

In the first place you can't use an approximation for your price complaint and then complain when the other person uses an exact price.  Secondly, you're both actually in agreement that the price is "around" $2,000 which is a very typical, reasonable price nowadays and significantly cheaper than the historical price of the average computer or laptop computer.  To argue that $2,000 for a 15" top of the line laptop is "expensive" is just silly.  Finally, your statement that "obviously lots of people prefer a 15" screen over the 13" (screen)" is categorically wrong.  The 13" screen is and always has been the far more popular choice.  I've been working with computers for decades and the 15" screen users are few and far between.  They are usually "special" users in my experience in every sense of that term. 

 

Why don't you just admit that *you* want a 15" laptop, you want it dirt cheap, and you are pissed that no one seems to agree with you. 

post #142 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

In the first place you can't use an approximation for your price complaint and then complain when the other person uses an exact price.

 

What is it with you guys? I said "~$2000" which means "around" $2000. $1800 IS around $2000 especially after taxes. But the exact amount plus or minus $100 obviously isn't really the point, is it? The point I was making is that the price of entry for a 15" Mac is up there.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

To argue that $2,000 for a 15" top of the line laptop is "expensive" is just silly.

 

Not everyone needs top-of-the-line. Did you miss the part where I mentioned a machine for web surfing, email and light photo manipulation that isn't an iPad?

 

The current approach is similar to Mercedes making you buy their top-of-the-line model to get a four-door.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Finally, your statement that "obviously lots of people prefer a 15" screen over the 13" (screen)" is categorically wrong.

 

 

No, it categorically ISN'T. Read what I wrote. I did not say MORE people, I said LOTS OF people. Obviously that must be true or Apple wouldn't make them anymore. That may be YOUR experience, but you know better than anyone that your anecdotal observations represent a drip in a bucket compared to the world market. In our plant there isn't a single 13" -- not even one -- but I wouldn't presume to generalize that to assume nobody else buys them either.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Why don't you just admit that *you* want a 15" laptop, you want it dirt cheap, and you are pissed that no one seems to agree with you. 

 

A more relevant admission would seem to be that you don't know shit about me, my uses or my wants. I do not want a 15", I want a 17 or bigger but I know that's not going to happen so I don't bother bugging people here about it. I don't give Shit One if anyone here agrees or disagrees, what has me pissed is the needling and nitpicking in response as if finding any flaw in my statements renders the point invalid. I expect that kind of bullshit from JR, but you're better than that 'Zoob.

post #143 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

You have nothing to support this statement.  

You have nothing to refute it.  

 

I guess that makes us both analysts, huh?  

post #144 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentinterest View Post

So, if it is a "5" then we can expect it to have identical internals to the current iPhone 5. 

I can't recall Apple ever doing that. Replacing the shell with the exact same internals. I believe we saw one leaked shot of the bottom and it only had one speaker grille. I would not be surprised if they have cut costs in dozens of ways throughout the entire design. Perhaps a lower res camera. Who knows, it may not even be LTE or retina. It all depends how low they want to set the price and who the target market is.

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post #145 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Did you miss the article where Apple sent hundreds of thousands of iPhones back to Foxcon due to defects in manufacturing?

Or the one that stated Foxcon said the iPhone 5 was the most difficult device to manufacture or the article that stated that they had to manufacture dozens of different size glass inserts to accommodate the slight irregularities in the case machining?

Yield rates for both injection molded plastic vs machined aluminum, please. From Apple's suppliers. Thank you in advance for providing numbers instead of using characterizations like "extremely high" and "near zero."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #146 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yield rates for both injection molded plastic vs machined aluminum, please. From Apple's suppliers. Thank you in advance for providing numbers instead of using characterizations like "extremely high" and "near zero."

How would he have these private stats?
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post #147 of 217
in other news Mansfield has disappeared from Apple's bio pages.
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post #148 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

You have nothing to refute it.  

 

I guess that makes us both analysts, huh?  

 

No it makes you someone who makes statements that can't be supported. 

post #149 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yield rates for both injection molded plastic vs machined aluminum, please. From Apple's suppliers. Thank you in advance for providing numbers instead of using characterizations like "extremely high" and "near zero."

 

I was basing my comments on my own knowledge and experience in manufacturing similar type of devices.

 

You know full well they do not publish their failures. Apple rarely owns up to anything that makes them look ineffective or at fault. Do you think they will ever tell us why their dev site was breached or how many personal identities were stolen, not likely.

 

Everything about this topic is pure speculation. If you can't read and understand the intended meaning of a comment without requiring a bibliography you should stop reading AI altogether because it is just a rumor site. Why hold the anonymous poster to some higher standard than the actual publishers?


Edited by mstone - 7/28/13 at 5:46pm

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post #150 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

...

 

No, it categorically ISN'T. Read what I wrote. I did not say MORE people, I said LOTS OF people. Obviously that must be true or Apple wouldn't make them anymore. That may be YOUR experience, but you know better than anyone that your anecdotal observations represent a drip in a bucket compared to the world market. In our plant there isn't a single 13" -- not even one -- but I wouldn't presume to generalize that to assume nobody else buys them either….

 

Well I don't want to get in a pissing war here, I think they are childish machoism's. IMO you still seem to be trying to push this idea that $2000 is "too much" for a 15" laptop and that "lots of people" want 15" and 17" laptops.  Based on years of experience in the industry I would say both of these statements are wrong.  

 

I guess that you can argue that when you said "lots of people" you really meant absolute numbers, and therefore you are right because in absolute numbers it has to be thousands of people a year in the USA alone, but in reality it was a statement about relative popularity.  At least that's the way any normal person would read it.  Large screen laptops are not "popular" (the price probably has something to do with it), but the price is lower than it's ever been in history and it's simply misleading to characterise said price as "high" to begin with.  

 

Also, I just don't understand your problem or position in the first place.  In my experience, the people that like the larger laptops are usually professionals with demanding needs (video people mostly), yet you admit up front that you just want to cruise the web with it and answer email.  

 

A tablet is a far better solution for those needs.  If it's about vision difficulties, again, the tablet wins because it has infinite zoom capabilities, super sharp text and built in handy shortcuts to let you see the web better.  It's a far better experience cruising the web and doing email on a tablet than it is on a laptop for those and other reasons. 

post #151 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

How would he have these private stats?

Beats me. That's his problem. He made statements about comparative yields, I wanted to know if it was based on him knowing something about Apple's manufacturing that the rest of us don't. Nope. I am just now seeing his response to another person admitting he doesn't have access to Apple's parts yields. I also see that he called me a "smart-ass" (in the third person, as he was addressing another forum member).

Well, being called a smart-ass isn't so bad, it's usually damming praise for someone who makes you look dumb. That wasn't my intention however. I gave him a chance: if he had the numbers or cited a source that did (perhaps even leaked it), I'd be glad to say I learned something. Otherwise, I call it like I see it. The PowerMac G4 Cube had problems with the injection molding that people called hairline cracks. And yet he claims (Apple's) plastic injection molding defect rates are near zero... with nothing to back that up. So, yeah, I'll call stuff like that out on the forums. It's nothing personal. I want facts, not hand waving, and not FUD.

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post #152 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 In my experience, the people that like the larger laptops are usually professionals with demanding needs (video people mostly), yet you admit up front that you just want to cruise the web with it and answer email.  

 

A tablet is a far better solution for those needs.  If it's about vision difficulties, again, the tablet wins because it has infinite zoom capabilities, super sharp text and built in handy shortcuts to let you see the web better.  It's a far better experience cruising the web and doing email on a tablet than it is on a laptop for those and other reasons. 

I would disagree with this. I much prefer surfing the web and using email on my 30" Cinema screen with a mouse. I have purchased a few iPads and they are an inferior experience to an actual computer in a number of ways. Their primary benefit is that they are extremely light and portable. They are also more secure but inferior in virtually every other factor in my opinion.

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post #153 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Not only that but old phones sold by Apple compete with their own second hand market. Which reduces sales by Apple.

Yep. That's what killed margins. Apple was canabolizing themselves out of their own margins. It was just nuts.

post #154 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

And yet he claims (Apple's) plastic injection molding defect rates are near zero... with nothing to back that up. So, yeah, I'll call stuff like that out on the forums. It's nothing personal. I want facts, not hand waving, and not FUD.

That is complete bullshit. Quit trying to twist my comments into something that was not said or intended. I never said that Apple HAS better yields with injection molding only that typically in manufacturing, in general, this is commonly the case. The one and only point I am making is that machining, anodizing, polishing etc is vastly more difficult, more prone to problems and more expensive than injection molding. If you find something in error with that opinion please argue how the inverse is true, citing credible sources, and without being a smart ass.

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post #155 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Yield rates for both injection molded plastic vs machined aluminum, please. From Apple's suppliers. Thank you in advance for providing numbers instead of using characterizations like "extremely high" and "near zero."

 

 

Jesus are you serious! One piece of quickly cast plastic vs much costlier, time consuming easily scratched and dented machined aluminum with precision crystalline diamond cut chamfered edges, an added easily scratchable special anodized finish and multiple precision cut and polished glass inserts.... what kind of more obvious info do you need? Yield rates lol wtf?


Edited by Ingela - 7/28/13 at 6:32pm
post #156 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Right now, as an iPhone 5 owner, I want an iPhone 5C MORE than I want a 5S.

Will you go for Powder Blue, Peach Blush or Baby Puke?

I will NEVER pay $679 for an 8GB plastic cell phone
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post #157 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I would disagree with this. I much prefer surfing the web and using email on my 30" Cinema screen with a mouse. I have purchased a few iPads and they are an inferior experience to an actual computer in a number of ways. Their primary benefit is that they are extremely light and portable. They are also more secure but inferior in virtually every other factor in my opinion.

I agree, to an extent.

 

Using an iPad is cool when one in pure, simple consumption mode - i.e. you're just reading one thing. You don't need to look at three different documents or webpages next to each other. You don't need to tweet or share links in any way. Outside of this mode, a full keyboard and a mouse provide more efficiency.

 

But the tablet is just so easy to not only to move around but also to just open up. For video viewing, email reading (but not necessarily replying), simple web browsing (one page at a time and no sharing), book reading, even playing games, etc., the tablet is just fine. You don't need to be at a table and can go anywhere without packing a bag.

post #158 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

 

 

Jesus are you serious! One piece of quickly cast plastic vs much costlier, time consuming easily scratched and dented machined aluminum with precision crystalline diamond cut chamfered edges, an added easily scratchable special anodized finish and multiple precision cut and polished glass inserts.... what kind of more obvious info do you need? Yield rates lol wtf?

I think there is a false impression here that anodized aluminum is more easily scratched than plastic. That is far from reality. It is true, however, that scratches are better hidden on certain plastics.

post #159 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Will you go for Powder Blue, Peach Blush or Baby Puke?

 

Sounds horrible, but baby puke means white, for those who think its brown or something, because that's what babies consume, milk, they puke partially digested milk (yum) ... but baby poo is naaasty!

post #160 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

I think there is a false impression here that anodized aluminum is more easily scratched than plastic. That is far from reality. It is true, however, that scratches are better hidden on certain plastics.

 

But that's far from beyond the point. What I am saying is why sell something that takes that amount of effort and cost then eat it selling it as a discount entry level product?  And even after the product is babied and out the door, there is still the possibility that the customer will return it for a minor scratch. WTF was Jony and everyone at Apple thinking when they decided to make this thing?

And no jive, I predicted trouble ahead as soon as I saw the thing last year. It's just obvious. I love the aluminum body, but as someone who works making luxury items, no matter how cool you can make something, you still have to factor in REALITY into the equation.

 

But I give Cook a lot of credit for coming to his senses and not making it available as an entry level product when the 5S hits the shelves.

Expect Apple stock, margins and profits to skyrocket next year. This is yet another prediction that I will get right.


Edited by Ingela - 7/28/13 at 6:56pm
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