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Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches - Page 7

post #241 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

If YOU want to search ME then we're doing it on YOUR time not MINE. Can't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

Because YOU are the reason the search is happening in the first place?
post #242 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because YOU are the reason the search is happening in the first place?

And YOU'RE the reason I'M the reason.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #243 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And YOU'RE the reason I'M the reason.

I force you to carry bags? Interesting.
post #244 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I force you to carry bags? Interesting.

Why are you checking my bag?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #245 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

If YOU want to search ME then we're doing it on YOUR time not MINE. Can't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

If your post is intended for Tallest Skil then it was all for nothing. If you don't agree with him......you're just plain wrong, no ifs, ands or buts. 1hmm.gif

You talkin' to me?
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You talkin' to me?
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post #246 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


I force you to carry bags? Interesting.

Just to get through the day, simply living LIFE forces some people to carry bags.

You talkin' to me?
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You talkin' to me?
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post #247 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I suspect you're just randomly googling, as I know forbes and salary.com would be on the first page or so. They come up frequently. Apart from that the gallup poll is the only thing there that might count as research, albeit still open to bias in terms of how it is quantified. By that I mean how it's randomized and what people actually regard as their own wasted time. You're trying to take survey data to prove that specific individuals don't have a case. That isn't likely to work.

 

See you don't have data on any of these guys. Everything you presented is generalized, not specific to this company, and as I mentioned it gives no indication of whether Apple or any other company can even require people to remain on premises after clocking out. That is probably one of the things that will be considered in determining whether the case moves forward. You don't really know if these people behave in such a manner. You just assumed it and projected your opinion, combined with the boogie man (labor unions) reference.

 


I've been thinking about that. It's not like employees would have to stash things in their bags to steal them. Bags hold more, but no one is going to try to steal 10 phones at a time. It's unlikely that they would try to steal one per shift. You may recall some of the recent articles regarding smartphone manufacturers and anti-theft devices. On phones those kinds of things should also be effective at the retail level. Those are some of the highest return per dollar items. With something really small such as an ipod nano, it's not like it's easy to prevent all forms of theft there. In fact I wonder if there are any retail loss prevention case studies floating around that examine the effectiveness of constant bag checks. If they really feel bag checks need to be in place, they may want to work on efficiency. In this case a manager has to sign off, meaning to alleviate any extra time, they would have to be available anytime employees are about to clock out. They would probably have security staff for check ins/check outs instead if it wasn't an added expense. Many office buildings have that. You check in. They ask what business you're visiting. They tell you the exact elevator to board.

 

Anyway I doubt there's an easy solution that covers everything perfectly, but I also doubt the effectiveness of treating your staff like potential criminals.

 

OH, like Apple employees are somehow different than every other employee? C'mon! People are people and no one works 100% of the time. Yes, I just searched and picked a few from 3 search criteria as I did not have time to really dig the data. But the point still stand and if you want, you can search further. 

post #248 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

If YOU want to search ME then we're doing it on YOUR time not MINE. Can't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

You gossip on Apple's time.
post #249 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

You gossip on Apple's time.

Huh?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #250 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Huh?

If you're not doing work (gossiping, checking personal email, etc) when you're clocked in, then you're stealing from the company.
post #251 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

 

I have, along with Kdarling....and we're waiting for your next nonsensical reply.

I don't think Tallest is a bad guy, but you should know by now, arguing with him is a thankless task. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I know all about Trollest Shill and fully aware of what I'm getting myself into. Thanks for your concern.
 

I disagree with the nomenclature as it implies that he is paid and only posts for a reaction.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

OH, like Apple employees are somehow different than every other employee? C'mon! People are people and no one works 100% of the time. Yes, I just searched and picked a few from 3 search criteria as I did not have time to really dig the data. But the point still stand and if you want, you can search further. 

You don't get it, which is fine. Random sampling, assuming it's well conducted, is designed to provide a guideline within a certain error margin when examining broad data. It doesn't help you form a template for discrete data, such as a case study of a given business. Beyond that I mentioned that they will likely have to determine if Apple could legally keep them there without paying for that time. It has nothing to do with the productivity aspect that you brought up, as I don't think we are in disagreement whether it's legal to dock based on poor productivity. If that slips below a minimum threshold level or hovers too close, their only real options are to have management speak to the employee or fire them.

post #252 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I don't think Tallest is a bad guy, but you should know by now, arguing with him is a thankless task. 

You don't get it, which is fine. Random sampling, assuming it's well conducted, is designed to provide a guideline within a certain error margin when examining broad data. It doesn't help you form a template for discrete data, such as a case study of a given business. Beyond that I mentioned that they will likely have to determine if Apple could legally keep them there without paying for that time. It has nothing to do with the productivity aspect that you brought up, as I don't think we are in disagreement whether it's legal to dock based on poor productivity. If that slips below a minimum threshold level or hovers too close, their only real options are to have management speak to the employee or fire them.

 

You don't get it, which is not surprising in todays lazy, entitled america! 

 

People are people and Apple employees are in no way above other employees. I gave a few examples via the web, but with 15 years past retail experience, and many more corporately, I know for a fact that not everyone works 100% of the time. I am sure Apple will have to pay as Apple has become the whipping boy, but my point was the hypocrisy of those who take company time to talk to friends, text, check email, and just don't want to be productive, somehow now feels wronged because they have to have their bags checked when leaving. It is this mindset that is killing the workforce, and america at large. 

post #253 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

You don't get it, which is not surprising in todays lazy, entitled america! 

 

People are people and Apple employees are in no way above other employees. I gave a few examples via the web, but with 15 years past retail experience, and many more corporately, I know for a fact that not everyone works 100% of the time. I am sure Apple will have to pay as Apple has become the whipping boy, but my point was the hypocrisy of those who take company time to talk to friends, text, check email, and just don't want to be productive, somehow now feels wronged because they have to have their bags checked when leaving. It is this mindset that is killing the workforce, and america at large. 

 

I have to disagree.    While I do have some questions/issue about the employees' complaints, which I've detailed in an earlier post, the question is not the efficiency of employees - it's whether the employees should be on the clock when the store takes that action.    If they're not working at an efficient level during their shifts, then their managers should take appropriate action, whether that's having them get training when business is slow, dusting the products, organizing displays, loading new software onto the machines or firing them...whatever.    But that has nothing to do with whether they should be paid during the time it takes to conduct a bag search.    

 

American workers are actually among the most productive workers in the world.   It's actually that productivity which is killing the workforce, because employers can make do with far fewer employees.   That's why they're not hiring in spite of large companies experiencing record profits.    

 

That's not to say that all employees in every organization are efficient and proactive at their jobs.   When I see an inefficient operation, it makes me crazy.   But that's more the fault of the managers than it is the employees.    

 

When I was in school, I worked in retail audio sales.   There were times when sales were slow - no customers.   That didn't mean that I shouldn't have been paid for every minute that I was in the store.    And if the manager needed to talk to me after the end of my official shift, I expected to be paid for that.   If you pay your employees by the hour instead of giving them career jobs with an annual salary, then you should be paying them from shift start to shift end.   None of this "first clock out, then we'll do the security check because we don't trust you."   If those who are defending Apple are correct and the bag check only takes 30 seconds and the average employee makes $10 an hour, then it will only cost Apple 8.3 cents per day, per employee, to pay them what I feel they deserve.

 

It amazes me that so many people on this site are so hostile to the workers and who couldn't care less whether big companies pay a living wage or not.  Who do you think those workers are?   They're our friends, neighbors and relatives.     

post #254 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

You don't get it, which is not surprising in todays lazy, entitled america! 

 

People are people and Apple employees are in no way above other employees. I gave a few examples via the web, but with 15 years past retail experience, and many more corporately, I know for a fact that not everyone works 100% of the time. I am sure Apple will have to pay as Apple has become the whipping boy, but my point was the hypocrisy of those who take company time to talk to friends, text, check email, and just don't want to be productive, somehow now feels wronged because they have to have their bags checked when leaving. It is this mindset that is killing the workforce, and america at large. 

If you were capable of comprehending my words, you would have gotten them by now. I tried to give you a real response, but you're just regurgitating abstract talking points rather than anything that can be directly applied here. I'll go back to writing real responses when you can provide evidence of an actual thought process.

post #255 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

None of this "first clock out, then we'll do the security check because we don't trust you."

Nice bit of nonsense you have there.
post #256 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nice bit of nonsense you have there.

So why are they checking bags?
post #257 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

If you're not doing work (gossiping, checking personal email, etc) when you're clocked in, then you're stealing from the company.

And anything a company does on my time is stealing from me.
post #258 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

And anything a company does on my time is stealing from me.

Exactly so it all evens out in the end.
post #259 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Exactly so it all evens out in the end.

I pointed out before that your argument means nothing in terms of whether or not that is legal or equitable. Wasting time on the employee end can also mean being fired.

post #260 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

 

I have to disagree.    While I do have some questions/issue about the employees' complaints, which I've detailed in an earlier post, the question is not the efficiency of employees - it's whether the employees should be on the clock when the store takes that action.    If they're not working at an efficient level during their shifts, then their managers should take appropriate action, whether that's having them get training when business is slow, dusting the products, organizing displays, loading new software onto the machines or firing them...whatever.    But that has nothing to do with whether they should be paid during the time it takes to conduct a bag search.    

 

American workers are actually among the most productive workers in the world.   It's actually that productivity which is killing the workforce, because employers can make do with far fewer employees.   That's why they're not hiring in spite of large companies experiencing record profits.    

 

That's not to say that all employees in every organization are efficient and proactive at their jobs.   When I see an inefficient operation, it makes me crazy.   But that's more the fault of the managers than it is the employees.    

 

When I was in school, I worked in retail audio sales.   There were times when sales were slow - no customers.   That didn't mean that I shouldn't have been paid for every minute that I was in the store.    And if the manager needed to talk to me after the end of my official shift, I expected to be paid for that.   If you pay your employees by the hour instead of giving them career jobs with an annual salary, then you should be paying them from shift start to shift end.   None of this "first clock out, then we'll do the security check because we don't trust you."   If those who are defending Apple are correct and the bag check only takes 30 seconds and the average employee makes $10 an hour, then it will only cost Apple 8.3 cents per day, per employee, to pay them what I feel they deserve.

 

It amazes me that so many people on this site are so hostile to the workers and who couldn't care less whether big companies pay a living wage or not.  Who do you think those workers are?   They're our friends, neighbors and relatives.     

 

It amazes me that so many people on this site are so hostile to the workers and who couldn't care less whether big companies pay a living wage or not.  Who do you think those workers are?   They're our friends, neighbors and relatives.  

 

First, I lived it for 15+ years. I am not hostile towards anyone. I am, however, hostile towards people's hypocrisy. When a manager gives you tasks to do during the day and an employee finds time to chat to friends, text, email, surf the web, etc. during that time, they are taking time away from the company. Time a manager can't possibly see all the time. But then, after wasting 1.5 hours per day, on average, they insist, no demand by legal action to get their 30 seconds. That, and only that, is what I am hostile about. 

 

 

That's not to say that all employees in every organization are efficient and proactive at their jobs.   When I see an inefficient operation, it makes me crazy.   But that's more the fault of the managers than it is the employees.  

 

Why your hostility towards managers? /s Do you  actually think a manager can watch every employee every moment of every day? Managers gives tasks and routinely check up on employees. It is the work ethic of the employee that determines whether they get their work done or not. Do most managers crack whips and stand over their employees all day? No. Any manager that has had the job more than a year accepts that no one will work 100% of the time you are paying them to. 

 

To all those who think employees can waste 1.5 hours and then demand 30 seconds, how would you feel if a manager was on the floor 100% of the time demanding each person to be 100% productive 100% of the time? After all, that is what they are paying for. 

 

No once have I had an employee think once about demanding time from the company when we locked up  the store, and every night we locked up after they clocked out (kinda makes sense huh?). They clock out, gather by the door, we wait for the alarm to cycle through, I set the alarm and we go home. I bet that might have been 5 minutes per night. No one complained or was unhappy because of it. Nor was I when a friend of theirs came into the store and talked. It was par of the unwritten give and take of life! 

 

Unfortunately, Apple will lose and the lawyers will make millions. Apple will invoke some absurd new policy (such as no bags allowed in the store) and life will get less enjoyable for the majority due to the minority. Which is the plight of America! 

post #261 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

If you were capable of comprehending my words, you would have gotten them by now. I tried to give you a real response, but you're just regurgitating abstract talking points rather than anything that can be directly applied here. I'll go back to writing real responses when you can provide evidence of an actual thought process.

 

LOL um, okay. 

 

Every response is real word, actually living it, backed up with statistics on the web (although a deeper search would reveal much more data). You want to fight facts with your feelings and that's okay. 

post #262 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

LOL um, okay. 

 

Every response is real word, actually living it, backed up with statistics on the web (although a deeper search would reveal much more data). You want to fight facts with your feelings and that's okay. 


Well I was kind of irritated at the time, and I figured you were too jaded to read everything. I'll try to explain this one more time. Surveys and studies aren't perfect, but they can be representative of patterns at a large scale if they're well executed. Generally there's a margin of error and context provided for review, and even then they have to be interpreted properly. When you start to talk about a specific company, store, or employee, you can't directly apply that randomized data, as your sample group has changed. It went from being the US to a specific company that may perform better or worse than the mean. You can't tell someone they slack off a specific amount of time per day simply because a study suggests that a specific percentage of individuals in the US do so. That is why individuals are generally reviewed on an individual basis. In my opinion your own experiences have impressed a certain amount of bias, which happens to everyone.

 

The second thing would be whether that data even matters in the context of the lawsuit. As I mentioned they can fire people who waste too much time. Apple may not have the option to hold them there on unpaid time. That may be part of what they are trying to prove. If that's the case, the first topic is unlikely to change anything. They have remedies. Leveraging additional time for bag checks may not be one of them.

post #263 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


Well I was kind of irritated at the time, and I figured you were too jaded to read everything. I'll try to explain this one more time. Surveys and studies aren't perfect, but they can be representative of patterns at a large scale if they're well executed. Generally there's a margin of error and context provided for review, and even then they have to be interpreted properly. When you start to talk about a specific company, store, or employee, you can't directly apply that randomized data, as your sample group has changed. It went from being the US to a specific company that may perform better or worse than the mean. You can't tell someone they slack off a specific amount of time per day simply because a study suggests that a specific percentage of individuals in the US do so. That is why individuals are generally reviewed on an individual basis. In my opinion your own experiences have impressed a certain amount of bias, which happens to everyone.

 

The second thing would be whether that data even matters in the context of the lawsuit. As I mentioned they can fire people who waste too much time. Apple may not have the option to hold them there on unpaid time. That may be part of what they are trying to prove. If that's the case, the first topic is unlikely to change anything. They have remedies. Leveraging additional time for bag checks may not be one of them.

 

 

To your first point. Those [links] where just the first couple found with a quick search. There has been many, many studies from all over the workforce spectrum. Just because you work for a certain retailer does not remove you from the statistic. Humans nature applies to all humans. Not everyone steals time as much as others, and I'm sure, from my experience, most (90%) don't mean any harm by this. Whatever company you work for, the statistics stand. It is not a job environment issue,as much as it is a human nature issue. People are more social prone than work prone so when they have the opportunity to socialize vs. work, they will. 

 

To your second point. I never argued that Apple won't have to pay, but that they will as they are the whipping boy of big business.

 

As I mentioned they can fire people who waste too much time

 

I love what you say here. "waste too much time" According to the lawsuit, 5 minutes is too much time. So by the standard the employees judge Apple, so shall they also be judged, and every employee that waste even 5 minutes should be docked pay or fired. How ridiculous does that sound? As ridiculous as the employee demanding that 5 minutes at the end of their day sounds. 

 

Furthermore, managers are not always able to see everyone and what everyone is doing. 1-2 managers per store and 50 employees; not going to happen. Employees know when managers are busy and that is the opportune time to check email, text, surf the web, sneak out for a coffee or smoke. At one retail store I took over, it was so bad we implemented a no phone while on work policy and you had to keep it in your car, or in the office. So back to your point, every company should have cameras recording workers and when the manager has time, they review the video and dock employees for every 5 minutes of wasted time. 

 

To my only point. People are hypocrites stealing time at an average of 1.5 hours per day and demanding 5 minutes. Employees would screen if they were docked pay or fired for talking to friends or texting or emailing or just standing around. They give no regard to stealing vast amounts of time from the employer, but to the judge if the employer takes 5 minutes of their time. Reminds me of a parable in the Bible of the Unforgiving Servant. Matthew 18:21-35


Edited by Richard Getz - 8/5/13 at 11:32am
post #264 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

To your second point. I never argued that Apple won't have to pay, but that they will as they are the whipping boy of big business.

 

I suspect you read more about Apple if this is your predominant news source. It could happen to any profitable company. If the company was in dire financial shape, what law firm would take the case? I stated before that in Apple's case, or any other similar one, the argument would be one over whether this is legal. Employee efficiency doesn't necessarily dictate whether certain behavior by the employer is legal. I'm being a little ambiguous as I don't feel like researching federal and state labor laws at the moment.

 

Quote:

I love what you say here. "waste too much time" According to the lawsuit, 5 minutes is too much time. So by the standard the employees judge Apple, so shall they also be judged, and every employee that waste even 5 minutes should be docked pay or fired. How ridiculous does that sound? As ridiculous as the employee demanding that 5 minutes at the end of their day sounds.

 

I fully understand your point, yet it's up to whatever company to decide at what point it's worth firing someone. What continues to irritate me is that you extrapolate it to all individuals. The study suggests something, and you automatically apply it to every individual. At least here you conceded that there is variation. I noticed it was a quick google search before you stated that. It's obvious to me from the results, especially when they accompany a short post. You should keep in mind that many articles can reference the same studies, although I couldn't find the sources used on two of those.

 

Quote:
Furthermore, managers are not always able to see everyone and what everyone is doing. 1-2 managers per store and 50 employees; not going to happen. Employees know when managers are busy and that is the opportune time to check email, text, surf the web, sneak out for a coffee or smoke. At one retail store I took over, it was so bad we implemented a no phone while on work policy and you had to keep it in your car, or in the office. So back to your point, every company should have cameras recording workers and when the manager has time, they review the video and dock employees for every 5 minutes of wasted time.

Some workplaces do have policies that people must keep their phones turned off while on shift, as business numbers can be used for contact in the case of emergencies, and for non-emergencies, there are always breaks. Your last suggestion is probably not legal. Anyway I'm not sure you can really combat that through micro-management. When I initially read this article, my suspicion was that the employees probably had staggered shifts and would take lunch breaks at different times. This means a lot of intermittent "check outs" throughout the day spread among however many people authorized to do these are on staff at any given time. It specified 15 minutes at the high end. I suspect there are times when managers are just tied up.

post #265 of 273
Funny how everyone is concerned about the workers but management gets a free pass. Do managers work every single minute of every hour? Are they robots that don't check their emails, twitter, Facebook, etc....?
post #266 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

Funny how everyone is concerned about the workers but management gets a free pass. Do managers work every single minute of every hour? Are they robots that don't check their emails, twitter, Facebook, etc....?

 

Managers are salary and work more hours than they sign up for, this I know from 15 years of managing. Most base pay is on 45 hour work weeks and then you work 50-60 hours per week. 

post #267 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Managers are salary and work more hours than they sign up for, this I know from 15 years of managing. Most base pay is on 45 hour work weeks and then you work 50-60 hours per week. 

That's not what I asked. Are managers exempt from scrutiny or beyond reproach because they're salaried?
post #268 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

I fully understand your point, yet it's up to whatever company to decide at what point it's worth firing someone. What continues to irritate me is that you extrapolate it to all individuals. The study suggests something, and you automatically apply it to every individual. At least here you conceded that there is variation. I noticed it was a quick google search before you stated that. It's obvious to me from the results, especially when they accompany a short post. You should keep in mind that many articles can reference the same studies, although I couldn't find the sources used on two of those.

 

 

Yes, as ALL individuals do not work 100% of the time they are at work. Where do you get the idea that anyone does? I don't concede there are variations, I have always said 'on average'. Some people work harder and at 90% of the time they are at work, some probably 60%. People working on in production probably more as their work is more defined by a process. Same with the cashiers who is at the register the entire shift. But that is why they are averages, and neither case applies to Apple workers. 

 

Again, it was a quick search as I don't have the time to pull the research for you. Obviously, it would matter none if I did as you glorify the Apple retail employees. Wait, are you one? You must be as hard as you are defending them. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Some workplaces do have policies that people must keep their phones turned off while on shift, as business numbers can be used for contact in the case of emergencies, and for non-emergencies, there are always breaks. Your last suggestion is probably not legal. Anyway I'm not sure you can really combat that through micro-management. When I initially read this article, my suspicion was that the employees probably had staggered shifts and would take lunch breaks at different times. This means a lot of intermittent "check outs" throughout the day spread among however many people authorized to do these are on staff at any given time. It specified 15 minutes at the high end. I suspect there are times when managers are just tied up.

 

I don't know what the circumstances are, nor to my point does it matter much. 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the chat, be well! 

post #269 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

Yes, as ALL individuals do not work 100% of the time they are at work. Where do you get the idea that anyone does? I don't concede there are variations, I have always said 'on average'. Some people work harder and at 90% of the time they are at work, some probably 60%. People working on in production probably more as their work is more defined by a process. Same with the cashiers who is at the register the entire shift. But that is why they are averages, and neither case applies to Apple workers. 

 

Again, it was a quick search as I don't have the time to pull the research for you. Obviously, it would matter none if I did as you glorify the Apple retail employees. Wait, are you one? You must be as hard as you are defending them. 

 

That would be incorrect. I've never worked for Apple, and I don't work in retail.  I was pointing out how to interpret the context of collected data. Apple employees on average could be on either end of the mean when examined across all stores or in a given store, but as I said, it's unlikely that it would affect the case either way.

Quote:

I don't know what the circumstances are, nor to my point does it matter much. 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the chat, be well!

Thank you and likewise.

post #270 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Yes, as ALL individuals do not work 100% of the time they are at work. Where do you get the idea that anyone does? I don't concede there are variations, I have always said 'on average'. Some people work harder and at 90% of the time they are at work, some probably 60%. People working on in production probably more as their work is more defined by a process. Same with the cashiers who is at the register the entire shift. But that is why they are averages, and neither case applies to Apple workers. 

Again, it was a quick search as I don't have the time to pull the research for you. Obviously, it would matter none if I did as you glorify the Apple retail employees. Wait, are you one? You must be as hard as you are defending them. 




I don't know what the circumstances are, nor to my point does it matter much. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the chat, be well! 

Shoot how much money do baseball players get for doing their job 1/3 of the time? Lol
post #271 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


Shoot how much money do baseball players get for doing their job 1/3 of the time? Lol

 

Please, don't get me onto the waste of sports in Americana today! 

post #272 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Please, don't get me onto the waste of sports in Americana today! 

Why just American sports? Have you seen the salaries of some of the soccer stars overseas?
post #273 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


Why just American sports? Have you seen the salaries of some of the soccer stars overseas?

 

No, sorry. The only sport I watch is the UFC. 

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