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Galaxy S 4 on steroids: Samsung caught doping in benchmarks - Page 2

post #41 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Watson View Post

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.

Samsung's PR department is pretty quick with the new shill accounts. What exactly do either of those have to do with the story on hand other than a pathetic deflection attempt?

post #42 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Watson View Post

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.

Or shut up and go away. You could do that.
Edited by Tallest Skil - 7/30/13 at 11:13am

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #43 of 153
post #44 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Simple solution:

Aggregate Performance Measurement
  1. Start the benchmark on a device with a full battery charge
  2. Run benchmark until battery dies
  3. Normalize results to device with largest aggregate

In benchmarking

… as in lovemaking -- you don't just count the short strokes!

Now you tell me!
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #45 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post


THE CLOCK RATE MAXES AT 480 INSTEAD OF 533.  NOT 300 LIKE APPLEINSIDER IS CLAIMING.


is it bad still, yes.  But not as bad as they are saying.



Probably because almost all companies do this in one way or another.
Why?  Almost every company does this for different benchmarks?  This would be like telling you family to avoid Intel because they do tons of optimizations when they run their benchmarks for their claims?
No, it does not.  The chip runs at 533Mhz (well, 532 according to anandtech) during some benchmarks.  Otherwise it caps at 480Mhz.


There is nothing that talks about the specifications on the feature page, and the fine print would take care of it.


You technically can get the GPU to hit the rate they provided, just not in a useful manner.
No.  At least, I don't see what it would be about.


You can still hit that clock rate, you just cannot do it in a useful manner.


-QAMF

Yep. Didn't take the Samsung shills long to defend this dishonest practice.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #46 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

They can be relevant for certain things like display quality, audio quality, etc. In most cases, though, spec sheets are thrown out as a way to distract you from the fact that the performance of the software in the system is so abysmal that they had to have such high specs just to make it run decently. In fact, a spec sheet is more impressive if you show that you are doing just as much, if not possibly more, than your competition with lower speced devices than theirs. If my phone with half the RAM and half the CPU cores has better UI responsiveness, runs all the same apps and games, and has equally if not better performance in real-world usage how exactly is it "lacking" anything? Going around bragging to everyone about the specs of your phone is just as much epeen waving as benchmark scores.

 

What's even more impressive then that are company's that realize it's not an either/or argument.  It's possible to have your cake and eat it too!

post #47 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

I'm waiting for Gatorguy and KDarling to weigh in on this issue!
1biggrin.gif

Funny, so was I. KD's posts are like reading a good comic … 'Ive been an THE expert in / run the entire universe's IT / bla bla bla for thirty years so I know more than Apple and the Planet Grog combined …" LOL
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #48 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Watson View Post

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.
okey!
Newbie's Welcome
post #49 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujones1 View Post

Unscrupulous. Trying to get everyone to buy into their bull on specs and performance while selling a pinto engine in a mustang body. Lol.

Look!! Our screen is bigger than Apple's. Our processor is faster than Apple's. We are cool and Apple is for older folks. Lol. You can't use SD cards in Apple stuff, you can with Samsung (that's because we use over have your internal memory).

But people buy their stuff anyway and think they better than Apple and are somehow getting the best deal out there without paying a higher price.

You get what you pay for. Lol.

Yeah, exactly! And those Fandroid keep calling iPhone user iSheep, but actually the Android are more fit in to the sheep description, they only concern spec. on paper, screen size, but totally ignored the user experience and how well it day to day perform. 

 

Fandroid user keep upgrading their phone and hope one day the touch will be as smooth as iPhone, so then they can laugh at iPhone user, but it will never happen because Android OS foundation architecture could not well maintain thread on UI touch response, therefore Android will never feel as good as iPhone. So, that's why they have to keep pull up the CPU / GPU speed and double size of RAM, to overcome the fundamental flaw of Android OS.

post #50 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Watson View Post

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.

 

Meh. For a first troll post, I'll give it a 4 out of 10.
 

post #51 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

What's even more impressive then that are company's that realize it's not an either/or argument.  It's possible to have your cake and eat it too!

If the higher-speced phone is not doing anything that is impossible with the lower speced phone than the pimping spec sheet is doing nothing but epeen waving. So great, you're phone has quad-core CPUs and multi-GBs of RAM. Is anything actually taking advantage of it? In the vast majority of cases? No. The spec-whoring is nothing more than a way to feed into the benchmark-whoring. Both are essentially worthless unless shown to have any relevance to real-world usage.

post #52 of 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Both are essentially worthless unless shown to have any relevance to real-world usage.

 

Yes, both are essentially worthless except for when they're not.  On that I agree.

post #53 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Samsung's PR department is pretty quick with the new shill accounts. What exactly do either of those have to do with the story on hand other than a pathetic deflection attempt?

Nah... He's not from Samsung. Just an Apple hater. Samsung PR department would be saying things like...

 

"At Samsung all our products reflect our dedication to integrity and honesty. Unfortunately one of our junior engineers accidentally left some experimental code in the distributed software package. The benchmark optimization code was an honest mistake which we deeply regret. Our team is currently investigating the incident and the engineer responsible has been fired." 

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #54 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Nah... He's not from Samsung. Just an Apple hater. Samsung PR department would be saying things like...

 

"At Samsung all our products reflect our dedication to integrity and honesty. Unfortunately one of our junior engineers accidentally left some experimental code in the distributed software package. The benchmark optimization code was an honest mistake which we deeply regret. Our team is currently investigating the incident and the engineer responsible has been fired." 

Actually Samsung has been hired a lot "ghostwriter" and deploy them on every Tech blog / forum to bad mouth its competition and praise Samsung's product.

 

They disguised themselves as a normal reader, but actually they are getting paid by Samsung to attack on Apple.

 

 

Samsung admits paying students to lambast rival phones in fake web reviews

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/04/17/samsung-fake-web-reviews/  

post #55 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

The 300mhz clock rate was for what the iPad 4's GPU cores run at. It was in reference to this section:

 

 

Basically they were saying that since both Apple and Samsung were using the same GPU cores it was simple to compare GPU performance between them since the difference was only in the clock rates (which was the reference of 533mhz vs 300mhz). Reading comprehension is a good skill you might want to pick up.

Yeah, sorry. Very bad on me.  Sorry!! :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

Not covered in this article is WHY Samsung would do this. The speed is there, why not use it for all applications? I'm sure the tech community will start guessing, and I have two possibilities:

1) When going full speed for extended lengths of time, the chip builds up too much heat and with either shut down or either damage other hardware of damage the chip itself.

2) When going full speed it drains the battery at an accelerated rate. The battery life would suffer so much the phone would be unsellable.

Huh? It is only a small clockspeed bump.  Besides, Anandtech's tests already showed that heat is an issue with the S4.  Check out their review :)

It wouldn't be #2, because the point of having variable clock speeds is that applications get what they need.  I guess if all you ever did with your phone was benchmark then this would make the phone less sellable.  I don't see an impact of over 5% of the battery life, which is still quite a bit.  Stupid smartphones with their puny battery life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joogabah View Post

 

Predatory ethics!  I guess honesty is just for the weak minded.

Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

 

If you're truly interested in the answer, you should check out some introductory writeups about the pros and cons of over-clocking.

Are you talking about binning, or overclocking?  the 533Mhz clock is a bin.  Not an overclock.

-QAMF

Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsk View Post


Actually Samsung has been hired a lot "ghostwriter" and deploy them on every Tech blog / forum to bad mouth its competition and praise Samsung's product.

 

They disguised themselves as a normal reader, but actually they are getting paid by Samsung to attack on Apple.

 

Yeah... but in this case he is neither bad mouthing the iPhone or praising Samsung. I mean really...when you get so caught with your hand in the cookie jar, all you can do is say something apologetic or make excuses like well everybody else cheats too and much worse, which is the gist of his argument.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #57 of 153
You know, for all the crap that Apple has been taking from Google and Samsung with their commercials about Android/Samsung devices being perceived 'better' (S4 pool party commercial, people waiting in line at stores commercial, etc.), Apple not once did something like this, yet they deserve to. I hope the day that Samsung crashes and burns with a huge, outrageous mistake is near, so people can finally see their true colors.

Sorry for the somewhat furious post, but Samsung really messed up this time :X
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

It is only a small clockspeed bump. 

9%

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #59 of 153
Samsung is such a tool. It copies everyones tech and cheats every way it can to try and impress nobody.
Lame!irked.gif
post #60 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsk View Post

Actually Samsung has been hired a lot "ghostwriter" and deploy them on every Tech blog / forum to bad mouth its competition and praise Samsung's product.

They disguised themselves as a normal reader, but actually they are getting paid by Samsung to attack on Apple.


Samsung admits paying students to lambast rival phones in fake web reviews



http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/04/17/samsung-fake-web-reviews/  

Wait for the Samsung shills to defend THAT, too.......
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #61 of 153

 

If you say things that are true, you don't have to use all caps and big fonts to get attention.

 

Also, "QAMF," your inaccurate, handwaving defense of Samsung's efforts to defraud anyone running benchmarks is reproachable.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

THE CLOCK RATE MAXES AT 480 INSTEAD OF 533.  NOT 300 LIKE APPLEINSIDER IS CLAIMING.

is it bad still, yes.  But not as bad as they are saying.

Probably because almost all companies do this in one way or another.

Why?  Almost every company does this for different benchmarks?  This would be like telling you family to avoid Intel because they do tons of optimizations when they run their benchmarks for their claims?

No, it does not.  The chip runs at 533Mhz (well, 532 according to anandtech) during some benchmarks.  Otherwise it caps at 480Mhz.

There is nothing that talks about the specifications on the feature page, and the fine print would take care of it.

You technically can get the GPU to hit the rate they provided, just not in a useful manner.

No.  At least, I don't see what it would be about.

You can still hit that clock rate, you just cannot do it in a useful manner.

-QAMF

post #62 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

I'm waiting for Gatorguy and KDarling to weigh in on this issue!
1biggrin.gif

I hope you're not waiting for me to suddenly become a Samsung supporter.1rolleyes.gif
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #63 of 153

Need such articles to be published all across the internet and let the trolls trip on each other!

 

About time for big money to rip up the AAPL stock which they have accumulated since last few months 1tongue.gif  Bring on more stories like this.


Edited by helicopterben - 7/30/13 at 12:09pm
post #64 of 153

The faster the processor, the better the unavoidable malware can steal and distribute your personal information! lol.gif

post #65 of 153
I am really curious as to what happens if the code is hacked to permanently set the clock at the higher frequency? Does the Galaxy S4 overheat and damage the chips? That would be cool (well hot really).
post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

I'm waiting for Gatorguy and KDarling to weigh in on this issue!
1biggrin.gif
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Funny, so was I. KD's posts are like reading a good comic … 'Ive been an THE expert in / run the entire universe's IT / bla bla bla for thirty years so I know more than Apple and the Planet Grog combined …" LOL

They both provide historical facts and technical explanations to back up their opinions/posts. Their posts do not always go against Apple either. How balanced are your posts? How often do you provide technical insight? In fact, how much (little) do you understand the industry, either technically or from an investment perspective? 

post #67 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

I am really curious as to what happens if the code is hacked to permanently set the clock at the higher frequency? Does the Galaxy S4 overheat and damage the chips? That would be cool (well hot really).

Probably wouldn't overheat unless the internals of the S4 were pretty poorly designed. It would definitely age the GPU cores faster and likely cause battery life to take a noticeable hit.

post #68 of 153
Cheating on benchmarks? I have nothing against Samsung's phones (they're pretty good products imo), but this is just pathetic, lol.
post #69 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyRevell View Post

Cheating on benchmarks? I have nothing against Samsung's phones (they're pretty good products imo), but this is just pathetic, lol.

Unfortunately the Android world is about spec and benchmark whoring. The Fandroids lap that shit up.

post #70 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by joogabah View Post

Predatory ethics!  I guess honesty is just for the weak minded.

I fully agree with disagreeing. How is this not qualifying for a lawsuit? It's like advertising that some car runs at x mph and then you're told "well, YOU cannot. But generally it can. "
Pathetic and saying all about their business ethics. Fits nicely with paying for fake reviews.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #71 of 153

It's Quack.exe all over again. Newsflash, people try to cheat in benchmarks, they've been doing it for a long time, and Beyond3D has been a community at the forefront of catching GPU cheaters.

 

Apple is guilty of cherry picking benchmarks themselves. There's no evidence of boosting (although it's a bit harder to analyze iOS firmware internals), but Apple classically cherry picks benchmarks presented at MacWorlds and WWDCs to make their products look better, by specifically avoiding benchmarks where they do very badly. For example, in Web Browser benchmarks, they run selectively, a single benchmark, either JSBench or Sun Spider, depending on, at that particular time, whether they are doing better, unlike say, AnandTech which runs Kraken, Octane, Dromaeo, et al.

 

They also have a habit of selectively omitting information in order to make things seem more innovative than they are, like Timer Coalescing in Mavericks, a feature which has been in Windows and Linux for *years* before Mavericks. Late to the party, but trumped up like something hugely innovative on their part.

post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

Apple is guilty of cherry picking benchmarks themselves. There's no evidence of boosting (although it's a bit harder to analyze iOS firmware internals), but Apple classically cherry picks benchmarks presented at MacWorlds and WWDCs to make their products look better, by specifically avoiding benchmarks where they do very badly. For example, in Web Browser benchmarks, they run selectively, a single benchmark, either JSBench or Sun Spider, depending on, at that particular time, whether they are doing better, unlike say, AnandTech which runs Kraken, Octane, Dromaeo, et al.

This wasn't about cherry-picking the benchmarks. It was about lying and cheating at the benchmarks which as you state there is no proof Apple does. But you've still gotta try to find a way to smear them anyway, right?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

They also have a habit of selectively omitting information in order to make things seem more innovative than they are, like Timer Coalescing in Mavericks, a feature which has been in Windows and Linux for *years* before Mavericks. Late to the party, but trumped up like something hugely innovative on their part.

Yes, Windows has had Timer Coalescing since Windows 7, but it also requires that applications specifically opt-in for it according to this whitepaper on the subject. Mavericks does not so that makes it a more useful. Either way both Windows and Linux have only really had Timer coalescing for a handful of years. You make it sound like they've had it for much longer which simply isn't true. Also, innovation is more than simply doing something first. It is also about taking existing ideas and doing them in a much better way than anyone before you.


Edited by MikeJones - 7/30/13 at 12:28pm
post #73 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Watson View Post

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.

 

How much spittle landed on your keyboard when you typed up that irrelevant, non-sensical, rage-filled post? Why don't you "grow a pair" and make an intelligent comment about the topic at hand? Are you ok with companies misleading their customers so blatantly when it comes to performance? Exposing this is called "talking shit"? Why did this story enrage you so much? Instead of looking at everything in a "us vs them" way, why can't you comment on the actual data? AppleInsider didn't come up with the story, a benchmarking site did. The only one who is a joke here is you, who is too much of an intellectual coward to touch on the subject at hand, avoiding it in order to troll. Instead of being appalled about this underhanded tactic Samsung was exposed using, you seem to be enraged that they were exposed at all. Then you talking about "defending" companies?


Edited by Slurpy - 7/30/13 at 1:30pm
post #74 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

It's Quack.exe all over again. Newsflash, people try to cheat in benchmarks, they've been doing it for a long time, and Beyond3D has been a community at the forefront of catching GPU cheaters.

 

Apple is guilty of cherry picking benchmarks themselves. There's no evidence of boosting (although it's a bit harder to analyze iOS firmware internals), but Apple classically cherry picks benchmarks presented at MacWorlds and WWDCs to make their products look better, by specifically avoiding benchmarks where they do very badly. For example, in Web Browser benchmarks, they run selectively, a single benchmark, either JSBench or Sun Spider, depending on, at that particular time, whether they are doing better, unlike say, AnandTech which runs Kraken, Octane, Dromaeo, et al.

 

They also have a habit of selectively omitting information in order to make things seem more innovative than they are, like Timer Coalescing in Mavericks, a feature which has been in Windows and Linux for *years* before Mavericks. Late to the party, but trumped up like something hugely innovative on their part.

 

 

You are comparing apples with ... samsung. If this is entirely true, then I challenge you to come up with examples of how Apple has done something similar. There is difference between highlighting one's strengths and selling a strength that is not available. Unlike the over-zealously defensively natives here, I don't think what Samsung is doing is illegal. But it is certainly not something that Apple has come close to doing, AFAIK. 

 

As for timer coalescing, what Apple is doing with Mavericks is different than what Microsoft did in Windows and how it is done in Linux. Please don't cherry-pick some headlines from the web and make snap judgement. Apple trumped this as something new in Mac OS, which is just fine. I challenge you to show me where they claimed this had never been done before. Please stop making stuff up. You are as dishonest in attacking Apple as others here are in defending it.

post #75 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

I fully agree with disagreeing. How is this not qualifying for a lawsuit? It's like advertising that some car runs at x mph and then you're told "well, YOU cannot. But generally it can. "
Pathetic and saying all about their business ethics. Fits nicely with paying for fake reviews.

It probably won't generate a lawsuit because Samsung doesn't advertise the results of that particular benchmark. They let their shills do it for them.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #76 of 153
I'm going to enjoy watching the Samsung apologists come out of the woodwork to attack Apple or DED on this one, even though Samsung did it to themselves.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #77 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

They both provide historical facts and technical explanations to back up their opinions/posts. Their posts do not always go against Apple either. How balanced are your posts? How often do you provide technical insight? In fact, how much (little) do you understand the industry, either technically or from an investment perspective? 

You're quite right, neither one of them is as annoying as you. And your technical and investment language reeks of coaching.
post #78 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Unlike the over-zealously defensively natives here, I don't think what Samsung is doing is illegal.

That's funny because the vast majority of posts in this thread didn't make any such claim and only a handful of posts made such an intimation. Most people just pointed out how this was unethical and slimy not claiming it was illegal. You might want to use a less broad brush next time.

post #79 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Why am I not surprised? scumbags I advise all my friends and family to avoid Samsung products I suggest we all do the same.

I advise Apple to family & friends but a lot have moved to Android reluctantly to get bigger screens
post #80 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


You're quite right, neither one of them is as annoying as you. And your technical and investment language reeks of coaching.

You have a point - I'd find myself annoying, too, if I caught myself bragging about things I had no clue about. So, I apologize for exposing you as an ignorant fraud. 

 

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