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Google caught using misleading report to claim Nexus 7 outsold iPad in Japan - Page 2

post #41 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

This is not that big a deal. They cited a report without digging into the method of analysis. Quite common.

 

Well it IS a big deal. When crap like this hits the usual web sites the iHater crowd immediately soaks it up and repeats it ad infinitum. My youngest sees this on a regular basis. He will probably be bombarded soon by his Fandroid acquaintances with "The Nexus 7 is more popular than the iPad, ha ha ha. Apple is going down." They instantly latch onto any tidbit of negative "news" and repeat it as indisputable fact. 

post #42 of 88
"Google representatives pointed out that there have now been about 70 million Android tablet activations, with about 50 million of those coming in the last 12 months."

So, what they are basically lying abou... er, saying now, is that a) the uptake into the android tablet space has been *exponential* over the past year (50m vs 20m for all previous years combined) and b) that their sales are almost keeping pace with Apple in the 'tablet' space?

Because that 12-month number - "50 million tablet activations" - comes out to just over 4 million a month, or 12 million a quarter. Pretty close to Apple's sales numbers.

Oh wait. ANDROID tablet activations. Not NEXUS activations. So, yeah… back on topic: MAYBE the Nexus 7 accounts for half of those activations? Maybe. Probably not remotely, actually.

That number could also be taking into account the VERY large numbers of cheap, underpowered "plastic tray" tablets in/from China running Android v2 et al. I've seen them (in China, in Hong Kong, in places like Ukraine), in the 'discount bin' of 'outlet stores'. Almost unbranded crappy little generic "tablet devices" they sell for $100 if that, and are the "cheap netbook" of the tablet space. Not worthy of counting as a robust, hot-selling "product" is it, just because it happens to run some hacked variant of "your" mobile OS?

OK, I suppose they count *cough*... just like every $150 "disposable" netbook counted toward overall "PC sales" of Widdows Lite... *cough* Yeah, that made for a healthy market, eh?

Google, dragging the rest of us down with them, Microsoft style... *cheer!* *cough* *ack. phlbt!*
post #43 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Isn't this supposed to be an Apple news site?

 

Half the articles these days exist to provide red meat to the faithful, rather than useful information about Apple. Who has decided that constantly dredging up fairly inconsequential criticisms of Google or Samsung is a good editorial direction, rather than actually providing stimulating material about Apple?

 

I love my Apple products, but I don't have to run down Google ten times a day to prove it.


To expose fraud is very important because the media likes to copycat each other.  They will stop doing copycat when there is a dispute. 

post #44 of 88

Hi all,

 

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Apple never releases store sales of particular items and/or for particular countries.

 

If so, then how can one expect to know what these sales figures are and how would anyone know whether combined with other country sales, the Japanese iPad sales actually did exceed Google's Nexus sales. Just saying, if they don't publish sales figures, you can't fault the competition for ignoring them.

post #45 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

This is not that big a deal. They cited a report without digging into the method of analysis. Quite common.

My iPad matches my Omega watch, I could have bought a cheap Chinese knock off just like I could have bought a Nexus, but nothing matches the real thing.
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post #46 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Wishful thinking, no it's about getting hit's to the site and making it interesting for the reader. Flogging the competition is the easiest way to do that.

Your attempt for neutrality would make your Swiss people proud.

 

However, I do think you have it correct. Controversy yields attention.  This site give people what they expect and want to see.  It draws trolls like flies in the process.

 

Trying to make it more neutral on your own by promoting a non-Apple product over an Apple product  will likely just draw even more attention and do the opposite of what it is I think you want to see.  Its like an independent trying to comment on politics. 

 

I would recommend that you read what interests you  and ignore the articles and threads that upset you. Trying to make things more neutral will just backfire IMHO.

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post #47 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Your attempt for neutrality would make your Swiss people proud.

However, I do think you have it correct. Controversy yields attention.  This site give people what they expect and want to see.  It draws trolls like flies in the process.

Trying to make it more neutral on your own by promoting a non-Apple product over an Apple product  will likely just draw even more attention and do the opposite of what it is I think you want to see.  Its like an independent trying to comment on politics. 

I would recommend that you read what interests you  and ignore the articles and threads that upset you. Trying to make things more neutral will just backfire IMHO.

I'm not asking to promote any non-Apple products unless it has a direct benefit to Apple like an AirPlay speaker. These threads just bring out the school yard bully in people, I mean just look at what has been written thus far. I like a good Nerd debate like the rest of them but stating things like Google is going to bring down the civilized world or calling the Nexus 7 a cheap imitation is just malarkey and brings absolute bupkis to the conversation at hand.
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post #48 of 88

Suffering???

 

Seriously?

 

More like rejoicing in justice being served.

 

You can admire Apple on their own merit.  many do.

 

But you can also rejoice when they are vindicated from the evildoers trying to take them down.  And yes, I call stealing the OS concept "doing evil." copying their standout design features is doing evil.  Lying and misrepresenting sales figures to hurt Apple stock prices is doing evil.

 

In fact, you don't have to admire Apple to enjoy justice being served.  

 

A non-Apple user could be just as happy.

 

But when the two are combined, it is definitely a good day.

 

Apple is vindicated and justice is served to the bad guys.

 

who are the bad guys? The guys who stole and then lied about their success in order to manipulate the market.

 

I think that about does it.

 

Have a nice day.

post #49 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

My iPad matches my Omega watch, I could have bought a cheap Chinese knock off just like I could have bought a Nexus, but nothing matches the real thing.

My sisters husband works for Omega, I can get last years model for 60% off. I only have 4 though, my sister has like 12 now. If anyone is interested just send me an IM along with the model number and I'll see what I can do.
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post #50 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


I'm not asking to promote any non-Apple products unless it has a direct benefit to Apple like an AirPlay speaker. These threads just bring out the school yard bully in people, I mean just look at what has been written thus far. I like a good Nerd debate like the rest of them but stating things like Google is going to bring down the civilized world or calling the Nexus 7 a cheap imitation is just malarkey and brings absolute bupkis to the conversation at hand.

 

The Nexus 7 IS a cheap imitation.

 

Android IS a cheap imitation.

 

That is simply true.

 

While I don't believe Google is going to bring down the world, nor do I agree with some of the childish remarks made often, it is a simple fact that Android and its stolen code is a cheap wannabe iOS knockoff.  And the Nexus is and cheap, wannabe iPad knockoff.

 

Using Android after using iOS is like driving a Pontiac Firebird after driving a Mercedes AMG Black.

 

And the hardware quality is no comparison.

 

Likewise using iOS after using Android is like a breath of fresh air. Functional (not a half-baked, still in beta feel), easy on the eyes, smooth, and stable.

 

Apple is far ahead.  the others can copy, but it really is a cheap imitation.

post #51 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Well it IS a big deal. When crap like this hits the usual web sites the iHater crowd immediately soaks it up and repeats it ad infinitum. My youngest sees this on a regular basis. He will probably be bombarded soon by his Fandroid acquaintances with "The Nexus 7 is more popular than the iPad, ha ha ha. Apple is going down." They instantly latch onto any tidbit of negative "news" and repeat it as indisputable fact. 

You are way too emotionally involved if you are concerned with what your child thinks of Apple.
post #52 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


You are way too emotionally involved if you are concerned with what your child thinks of Apple.

Has it occurred to you that maybe their child received an expensive and high quality Apple product as a gift from their parents? An item that they cherish, take care of and take pride in that it was given to them by their parents knowing they spend extra money on a quality product over a cheap knockoff? 

 

Or more likely you just don't care or give much thought to how in tune you kids are to decisions their parents make in life and leading by example.  My parent does not value originality and high quality, they just buy the cheap knock offs.  So why should I strive for originality and high quality in what I do in life? Its ok to copy other's ideas instead of coming up with your own new ideas and its ok to take short cuts because no one notices or appreciates polish. Why try for something new  and better? I'll just turn the crank. The fact is the revolutionary product ideas and quality that comes out of Apple sets the bar high and should be admired by old and young alike.  A society and culture that could care less about creativity, IP protection, original thought, and quality.   I think many of us know which society and cultures I am referring to.. It just makes me barf. 


Edited by snova - 7/30/13 at 5:12pm
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post #53 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Has it occurred to you that maybe their child received an expensive and high quality Apple product as a gift from their parents? An item that they cherish, take care of and take pride in that it was given to them by their parents knowing they spend extra money on a quality product over a cheap knockoff? 

Or more likely you just don't care or give much thought to how in tune you kids are to decisions their parents make in life and leading by example.  My parent does not value originality and high quality, they just buy the cheap knock offs.  So why should I strive for originality and high quality in what I do in life? Its ok to copy other's ideas instead of coming up with your own new ideas and its ok to take short cuts because no one notices or appreciates polish. Why try for something new  and better? I'll just turn the crank. The fact is the revolutionary product ideas and quality that comes out of Apple sets the bar high and should be admired by old and young alike.  A society and culture that could care less about creativity, IP protection, original thought, and quality.   I think many of us know which society and cultures I am referring to.. It just makes me barf. 

The only way a child would think all of those things when his parents purchase a Nexus 7 is if he reads AppleInsider and doesn't have anything but an echo chamber between his ears.
post #54 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by perlprogrammer View Post

Hi all,

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Apple never releases store sales of particular items and/or for particular countries.

If so, then how can one expect to know what these sales figures are and how would anyone know whether combined with other country sales, the Japanese iPad sales actually did exceed Google's Nexus sales. Just saying, if they don't publish sales figures, you can't fault the competition for ignoring them.

Welcome to the forums!1biggrin.gif

You are quite wrong. If they know they are not counting major sources of sales then making a comparison is very dishonest. They either need to account for those sales or be upfront about the obvious holes in this study. A few of the posters here seem to be defending google by saying everybody does it. I don't like being deceived.
post #55 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


The only way a child would think all of those things when his parents purchase a Nexus 7 is if he reads AppleInsider and doesn't have anything but an echo chamber between his ears.

you dont really think much of kids or how perceptive they are, do you? You either dont have kids (which is good) or you are completely hands off on raising them (which would be sad for them).

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post #56 of 88

Google and Samsung deserve each other! :)

post #57 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Citing a favorable market study report done by an independent outside party is hardly unusual. Apple cites favorable studies and properly ignores unfavorable ones. For example IDC reports are both in and out depending on how it reflects on Apple. Ford, GM, Toyota and Hyundai all trot out various and sundry market research reports to prove they lead in this segment or that, even sometimes appearing to be at odds with a competitors leading claim. It's simply typical business and advertising.

No particular reason that it's newsworthy when companies use studies that shine on them whether it's Google or Apple or GM doing the crowing.

Holy crap this post just gave me diabetes it's so sugar coated.
post #58 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


This is just a silly opinion and brings nothing new to the thread that hasn't already been said a 100,000 times before.

What do you expect?  It's a Apple-centric site. If you don't like it, then to go an Android-centric site and read the silly opinions of Android users.  The article is just basically saying that Google was misleading people on sales figures, that's basically the crux of the article.  To me, it makes me feel the guys running the site are a little desperate for something write about and this would generate some Anti-Android comments, which is fine by me.

post #59 of 88
Oh, they didn't think highly of their users, are they? Feeding this bullshit?
post #60 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

A few of the posters here seem to be defending google by saying everybody does it. I don't like being deceived.

You hit the nail on the head. Bizarrely, those posters like to be deceived and think nothing about it, might even think higher of themselves in the process (I'm objective, I'm neutral, I'm not a fanboy .. Yadda, Yadda). I always find those extremely funny.
post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

The only way a child would think all of those things when his parents purchase a Nexus 7 is if he reads AppleInsider and doesn't have anything but an echo chamber between his ears.

I got a book idea for you: Parenting the Florida Way. Just put stuff like you're saying in it. When you get interviewed, just play it straight. Have you seen Errol Morris's documentary, Vernon, Florida? That's the tone you'll be aiming for.

I'm just glad my dad snagged a 12-record Wurlitzer when he was servicing cash registers in rural Iowa. It's in the background of my 2rd birthday pictures, 1944. It took a 78 record out of the stack, swung it over the turntable, and let it down easy, then brought the tone arm over and down. Amazing mechanism, when you looked in from the back, all rods, bearings and springs, an early robot. He wired around the nickel counter, so all you had to do was push the buttons.

I didn't follow him into small mechanisms, went into rebuilding air-cooled flat fours later, also amazing machines. Some would call them small mechanisms, so maybe my point is what you set your kid up with absolutely stays with him or her through life, deeper than you know. Of course, if you care so little that you lay trash on him, maybe it means you got trash when you were a kid, or you missed the lesson up to now.

Remember the lesson Steve Jobs's dad told him about finishing the back of the cabinet, the part that no one sees?
post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

You hit the nail on the head. Bizarrely, those posters like to be deceived and think nothing about it, might even think higher of themselves in the process (I'm objective, I'm neutral, I'm not a fanboy .. Yadda, Yadda). I always find those extremely funny.

If they were going to be objective they would admit that if its news for google to cite these reports then its certainly legitimate to report on the fairly obvious fact that those reports are useless. Except to deceive.
post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

you dont really think much of kids or how perceptive they are, do you? You either dont have kids (which is good) or you are completely hands off on raising them (which would be sad for them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I got a book idea for you: Parenting the Florida Way. Just put stuff like you're saying in it. When you get interviewed, just play it straight. Have you seen Errol Morris's documentary, Vernon, Florida? That's the tone you'll be aiming for.

I'm just glad my dad snagged a 12-record Wurlitzer when he was servicing cash registers in rural Iowa. It's in the background of my 2rd birthday pictures, 1944. It took a 78 record out of the stack, swung it over the turntable, and let it down easy, then brought the tone arm over and down. Amazing mechanism, when you looked in from the back, all rods, bearings and springs, an early robot. He wired around the nickel counter, so all you had to do was push the buttons.

I didn't follow him into small mechanisms, went into rebuilding air-cooled flat fours later, also amazing machines. Some would call them small mechanisms, so maybe my point is what you set your kid up with absolutely stays with him or her through life, deeper than you know. Of course, if you care so little that you lay trash on him, maybe it means you got trash when you were a kid, or you missed the lesson up to now.

Remember the lesson Steve Jobs's dad told him about finishing the back of the cabinet, the part that no one sees?

I know kids are impressionable. They tend to have brand loyalty for brands used by their parents. What brand loyalty doesn't bring in tow are the absurd social connotations being attached here.

For example, I prefer to drive Hondas when one suits my needs because my mom and dad always drove them. I loathe American cars and would never buy one, but I don't think people who drive them are scum. I think they're either uninformed or have priorities that don't make sense to me.
Edited by wakefinance - 7/30/13 at 6:58pm
post #64 of 88

"Apple shipped about 773K iPad units versus about 350K Nexus 7 units for Asus."

 

 

hmmmmm....  are you implying that shipping more units might be an indication that you are selling more units??

 

Sacrilege!!
 

post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post



I know kids are impressionable. They tend to have brand loyalty for brands used by their parents. What brand loyalty doesn't bring in tow are the absurd social connotations being attached here.

For example, I prefer to drive Hondas when one suits my needs because my mom and dad always drove them. I loathe American cars and would never buy one, but I don't think people who drive them are scum. I think they're either uninformed or have priorities that don't make sense to me.

really, I would have pictured you as a Hyundai buyer. They look just like Hondas designs, are just as reliable, get better gas milage according to the window sticker, and cheaper. The name even sounds like Honda. "Hondie" 1wink.gif   Hope you see what I did there to bring it full circle back to the Nexus 7 vs iPad.

 

Even the model name have similar meaning:

Accord = bring into harmony

Sonata = A composition for one or more solo instruments


Edited by snova - 7/30/13 at 7:38pm
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post #66 of 88
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Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Do no evil, eh?

More like Do know evil.

post #67 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot storm View Post

More like Do know evil.

It's really "don't be evil", but since 'do no evil' is distinct from that, it's quite possible they're interpreting their slogan to mean that doing evil acts doesn't imply being evil. lol.gif

Or, "Oh, you thought it was 'don't be evil'? No no, it's 'Doughn tbeah eaffil". The person who thought that up spoke Scottish Gaelic, you see."

Originally Posted by helia

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post #68 of 88
Pretty pathetic Google... pretty pathetic.
post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Android forums have plenty of material that keeps them busy, since they have a lot of manufacturers that put out new products.

Apple on the other hand has 2 or 3 products, which has been condensed into 2-3 months release cycles. So all Apple related websites would really have no content for 9 months if they didn't bash other products.

If you really think about it it's sad times to be an Apple only website. Apple products and news are increasingly less exciting as times go by. Their products are becoming pedestrian and have fallen into Microsoft's Windows style of releasing few upgrades to "please the crowd". I mean the iPhone 5 looked like the 4S, which looked just like the 4, which closely resembled the 3GS, which was exactly like the 3G. I mean, at this point anyone with Photoshop can make the iPhone 5S

Its no wonder this website posts news of competitors. like Apple, AI is still trying to remain relevant. 1biggrin.gif
Sometimes it's not about the "look", holding an iPhone 5 feels very different to holding an iPhone 4.
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post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

really, I would have pictured you as a Hyundai buyer. They look just like Hondas designs, are just as reliable, get better gas milage according to the window sticker, and cheaper. The name even sounds like Honda. "Hondie" 1wink.gif    Hope you see what I did there to bring it full circle back to the Nexus 7 vs iPad.

Even the model name have similar meaning:
Accord = bring into harmony

Sonata = 
A composition for one or more solo instruments

You think I begrudge Hyundai for marketing a family sedan?
post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


You think I begrudge Hyundai for marketing a family sedan?

 I did not think it was possible to pretend to be ignorant and bombastic at the same time.  This takes talent. Great job.

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post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

Are you really selling used watches?

No, if it came out that way I apologize. I was replying to someone who likes Omega watches. I just so happen to have someone in my family who works directly for them. Their normally not cheap watches. He has a lot of demo's that he gives away to us as Christmas and birthday presents. I was just adding that if anyone is looking for one I can put them in touch directly with Omega. No profit will be made from this, it was a nice thing that I thought someone would appreciate.
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post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

This is not that big a deal. They cited a report without digging into the method of analysis. Quite common.

 

Except that Google could have cited figures from their own sales and activation data. Nexus is a Google Product and they should have exact sales data. Rather you choose to cite a research data!

 

It's like asking 10 persons about your weight and then average it to get your wight when just standing on the weight machine would have given you the fact.

 

But, Google was not looking for fact here, they wanted a favorable figure, wasn't they?

post #74 of 88
If you don't have good news, manufacture some.
post #75 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


I wasn't trying to impress, we get them for free as presents as in no money. I was replying to a post about the person liking Omega watches.

 

...and comparing Apple products to the Swiss watch industry, both are besieged by a sea of cheap knock offs.

 

Who cares if Chinese companies buy up bankrupt Swiss watch companies solely so they can use the name on cheap junk.

 

I equate Android to this.

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post #76 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

...and comparing Apple products to the Swiss watch industry, both are besieged by a sea of cheap knock offs.

Who cares if Chinese companies buy up bankrupt Swiss watch companies solely so they can use the name on cheap junk.

I equate Android to this.

Corum wasn't bankrupt, quite the contrary, Hon Kwak Lung paid a fortune for the company and will continue the tradition of fine watches, nothing cheap will come off of their assembly line, if they do produce crap watches they will fail miserably as we have an abundance of fine watch makers. Corum is also one of the smallest and newest watch makers in Switzerland and isn't considered one of our top watch producers. Hon's plans is to increase production and manufacturing facilities to compete worldwide and will keep producing in Switzerland, that's why he was able to acquire the company in the first place, the government would have never aloud the sale otherwise. There was also an agreement that if he produces the watches in China he will have to forgo the made in Switzerland stamp or any other marker with Swiss on it. We are also one of the wealthiest countries in the world with one of the lowest unemployment rates, if one of our prized watch manufactures was on the verge of bankruptcy the government would have stepped in to bale them out in a heart beat. An example of how Switzerland protects our people is they pay farmers not to sale their land and buys any food that doesn't sale just so we don't become dependent on foreign food and to protect the landscape. Antonio Calce, CEO of Corum wants to become a world player in the watch business as well and he couldn't have done that on in his own so he pushed for the merger, he will continue working as the CEO and no one will loose their jobs over this purchase. This is partly due to our laws that any foreign company must have at least a 70% Swiss work force, that and there is only 130 employees currently working at Corum. It really is a tiny Ma & Pa type setup, they craft all watches by hand.

Not all Android devices are crap. There have been some pretty fantastically built, quality products over the years. For example a Motorola Xoom II, Sony Tablet Z, Asus Transformer Pad Infinity, Asus Eee Pad Slider, Toshiba AT200, ect., easily match the hardware quality of any iPad. There are plenty of people who enjoy using Android and all of it's benefits. Yes I said benefits, working with remote servers, streaming video from a computer, playing almost every codec there is, file-manager, apps that talk to each other, customization, widgets, multiple users, ect. I also enjoy my iPad very, very much, the music creation apps alone for instance are bar none the coolest I have ever played with but Apple controls way to much of what I can and cannot due and that just sucks. Why can't I have a filemanager, it's Unix, when an iPad is Jail-broken I can see the complete HD tree. Why can't I change the default web-browser, MS was sued and lost because of that a few years back. I don't want to see all of my apps, why can't I have a custom home screen where I can populate with what I want like; widgets, notes, or just a big clock because I like a clean look. Every OS has it's upside and downside, saying that you dislike Android is absolutely fine but calling it a cheap knockoff isn't. Everything that Apple has done in iOS has been done before, granted not as visually stunning but none the less nothing we haven't seen before, icons in a grid, heck icons, notifications, what, please tell me what is so revolutionary that it can't be used on another platform because it is so sacred to Apple. Do you really think that Android 4.3 looks exactly like iOS 6 or even 7 because I see very little similarities anymore. If no one copied ideas off of each other the computer industry would still be using ASCII for everything. When is copying a good thing and not a bad thing or visa versa. Remember it was cheap IBM clones that put computers to where we are at now. If IBM went after everyone the way Apple does the computer landscape would be a lot different now and a lot more expensive. What would have happened if Xerox gave Apple the finger all those years back and just sat on the GUI. How long would it have taken for Apple or MS to come up with a GUI derived OS, 5, 8 years.

I honestly like, iOS, Android, Windows X, Unix, Linux, Symbian, Plan 9, OSX, Risc OS, BeOS, OS, OS2 or eComStation, Amiga, MeegOS, ect. I understand your passion for Apple's OS's, their wonderful to use, intuitive, fast, unique but they've come to light because of other peoples ideas. Nothing was made by just one person or one company, it's an accumulation of technological ideas past down over the years. If you condemn one OS, you'll have to condemn them all because they all come from similar backgrounds.

Please be nice when you tear me a new one and you will it's inevitable, I don't mean to belittle Apple's achievements in any way, they have done great things but so has the competition. Remember, people design these things, not corporations.
Edited by Relic - 7/31/13 at 4:27pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #77 of 88
I'm concerned by the media's willingness to engage in such a biased dialogue. It's amazing how quickly "unit sales" has displaced "profit" as the barometer of success in the tech media. Is this because it's the only metric by which Android could be determined to be a success? Or perhaps because "profit" is hard to quantify when Google's revenue model is subsidised by a personal information economy and advertising revenue?

Apple is currently at a significant low point in their release cycle for basically their entire line-up. For the iPad this is contrasted witha relative high point in their release cycle ago to evoke a narrative of how "little change" there was in "year-over-year iPad sales". But unless the release cycle has a 12-month periodicy this is an incredibly crude measure of the relative appeal of the iPad brand over time. A better KPI is the number of iPads sold in a predetermined period following launch. Data which (assuming no supply constraints) clearly demonstrates that each new iPad is selling to more customers than the last.

None of this means Apple are losing appeal or ground. Clearly they are just accruing potential energy on future sales. iOS 7, iPad 5, iPhone 5S and iPhone 5C. In September these sales numbers are going to be measured on the richter scale.
post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

I'm concerned by the media's willingness to engage in such a biased dialogue. It's amazing how quickly "unit sales" has displaced "profit" as the barometer of success in the tech media. Is this because it's the only metric by which Android could be determined to be a success? Or perhaps because "profit" is hard to quantify when Google's revenue model is subsidised by a personal information economy and advertising revenue?

Apple is currently at a significant low point in their release cycle for basically their entire line-up. For the iPad this is contrasted witha relative high point in their release cycle ago to evoke a narrative of how "little change" there was in "year-over-year iPad sales". But unless the release cycle has a 12-month periodicy this is an incredibly crude measure of the relative appeal of the iPad brand over time. A better KPI is the number of iPads sold in a predetermined period following launch. Data which (assuming no supply constraints) clearly demonstrates that each new iPad is selling to more customers than the last.

None of this means Apple are losing appeal or ground. Clearly they are just accruing potential energy on future sales. iOS 7, iPad 5, iPhone 5S and iPhone 5C. In September these sales numbers are going to be measured on the richter scale.

 

I sure hope Apple releases a 4.5+ screen iPhone to go after that market sometime in the near future.  I wish it were this year, but it's probably next year.  THAT would definitely increase their market share. 

 

Samsung buys market share by spitting out some old GIngerbread phone that's sold for $150 list and discounted down to $99 for the unlocked version, but that device makes ZERO profit.  It's a lost leader, product dump rather than to make any money.  It's a deceptive practice to try to buy market share and it usually catches up with these companies.

 

Apple is getting far more acceptance in the Enterprise and Educational markets which is a VERY stable user base as they don't switch platforms like an individual might. 

 

I personally think that there will be a trend in the Android and Windows platform where there will be some mfg getting out of that business due to lack of profits and/or sales.   It wouldn't surprise me if HTC went out, since all they make are smartphones.  What I laugh about are these hole in the wall Chinese Android and WIndows OEM tablets where you never heard of the company and they sell a product that costs $60.  It's laughable at how much garbage is actually sold by these incredibly cheap OEM mfg.  Do people buy them?  I guess.  But they are the type of product that gets thrown away within a month. Kind of like those stores that sell the Rolex knockoffs that stop working shortly after you buy it. The schlock of the industry.

post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Corum wasn't bankrupt, quite the contrary, Hon Kwak Lung paid a fortune for the company and will continue the tradition of fine watches, nothing cheap will come off of their assembly line, if they do produce crap watches they will fail miserably as we have an abundance of fine watch makers. Corum is also one of the smallest and newest watch makers in Switzerland and isn't considered one of our top watch producers. Hon's plans is to increase production and manufacturing facilities to compete worldwide and will keep producing in Switzerland, that's why he was able to acquire the company in the first place, the government would have never aloud the sale otherwise. There was also an agreement that if he produces the watches in China he will have to forgo the made in Switzerland stamp or any other marker with Swiss on it. We are also one of the wealthiest countries in the world with one of the lowest unemployment rates, if one of our prized watch manufactures was on the verge of bankruptcy the government would have stepped in to bale them out in a heart beat. An example of how Switzerland protects our people is they pay farmers not to sale their land and buys any food that doesn't sale just so we don't become dependent on foreign food and to protect the landscape. Antonio Calce, CEO of Corum wants to become a world player in the watch business as well and he couldn't have done that on in his own so he pushed for the merger, he will continue working as the CEO and no one will loose their jobs over this purchase. This is partly due to our laws that any foreign company must have at least a 70% Swiss work force, that and there is only 130 employees currently working at Corum. It really is a tiny Ma & Pa type setup, they craft all watches by hand.

Not all Android devices are crap. There have been some pretty fantastically built, quality products over the years. For example a Motorola Xoom II, Sony Tablet Z, Asus Transformer Pad Infinity, Asus Eee Pad Slider, Toshiba AT200, ect., easily match the hardware quality of any iPad. There are plenty of people who enjoy using Android and all of it's benefits. Yes I said benefits, working with remote servers, streaming video from a computer, playing almost every codec there is, file-manager, apps that talk to each other, customization, widgets, multiple users, ect. I also enjoy my iPad very, very much, the music creation apps alone for instance are bar none the coolest I have ever played with but Apple controls way to much of what I can and cannot due and that just sucks. Why can't I have a filemanager, it's Unix, when an iPad is Jail-broken I can see the complete HD tree. Why can't I change the default web-browser, MS was sued and lost because of that a few years back. I don't want to see all of my apps, why can't I have a custom home screen where I can populate with what I want like; widgets, notes, or just a big clock because I like a clean look. Every OS has it's upside and downside, saying that you dislike Android is absolutely fine but calling it a cheap knockoff isn't. Everything that Apple has done in iOS has been done before, granted not as visually stunning but none the less nothing we haven't seen before, icons in a grid, heck icons, notifications, what, please tell me what is so revolutionary that it can't be used on another platform because it is so sacred to Apple. Do you really think that Android 4.3 looks exactly like iOS 6 or even 7 because I see very little similarities anymore. If no one copied ideas off of each other the computer industry would still be using ASCII for everything. When is copying a good thing and not a bad thing or visa versa. Remember it was cheap IBM clones that put computers to where we are at now. If IBM went after everyone the way Apple does the computer landscape would be a lot different now and a lot more expensive. What would have happened if Xerox gave Apple the finger all those years back and just sat on the GUI. How long would it have taken for Apple or MS to come up with a GUI derived OS, 5, 8 years.

I honestly like, iOS, Android, Windows X, Unix, Linux, Symbian, Plan 9, OSX, Risc OS, BeOS, OS, OS2 or eComStation, Amiga, MeegOS, ect. I understand your passion for Apple's OS's, their wonderful to use, intuitive, fast, unique but they've come to light because of other peoples ideas. Nothing was made by just one person or one company, it's an accumulation of technological ideas past down over the years. If you condemn one OS, you'll have to condemn them all because they all come from similar backgrounds.

Please be nice when you tear me a new one and you will it's inevitable, I don't mean to belittle Apple's achievements in any way, they have done great things but so has the competition. Remember, people design these things, not corporations.

 

to me, it's all the same $HIT.

 

What I don't like about the Android platform is that you can't walk into any store and find all of the Android devices running the latest OS.  Even the top of the line Flagship samsung doesn't come with the latest OS.  It runs 4.2.2 and 4.3 just came out a couple of days ago and it will take about 6 or 7 months for Samscum to release 4.3.  Heck, it takes Samscum 6 to 7 months to update their S3 phones with 4.2.2.  To me, the entire Android OEM platform is nothing but selling products that don't run and probably will never run the latest OS for very long.  The S4 is only 2 months old and it doesn't run 4.3.  WTF?   That's a problem with the inherent business model.


Most of the OSs you mentioned failed in the market other than Android, OS X, iOS, and Windows.  But based on the lack of sales, Windows RT is a failure, almost as bad as Windows Vista.  If the company develops the software properly and the hardware that supports is made well and there is a good support system and industry support, it can succeed, but each model has it's flaws.

 

How would you like it if you ran a company with 50,000 employees and you standardized on IBM computers and you got notice from IBM that they sold off their PC unit to Lenovo and now you have to deal with Lenovo which has ZERO track record and you just don't like doing business with a foreign company?  Same thing happened with Compaq, only they now have to deal with HP.

 

Look at what's going on with HP and Dell?  If they could find a buyer for their PC units, they'd sell since they don't make any profits.  NONE of the PC mfg are making decent profits. NONE OF THEM.  Samsung is only making decent profits because they make most of the guts inside, but they don't develop Android OS, do they?  NOPE.

 

Every choice with the brand of hardware and OS has pros and cons, it's just deciding what you are willing to deal with.  I like the one stop shop approach as it has worked for me.  I would have hated having to use Windows should Apple gone out of business, but they didn't. They came back and they have enough cash to last them decades, plus they know how to manage their business, be profitable and maintain their level of quality.  Going with whomever is the cheapest doesn't create the right business environment for me, because I can't be sure if they'll still be in business.  I am loyal to the companies I choose to do business with, until they prove that they can't fulfill my needs.  I don't like having to switch brands for most things I buy.  That's not what I call good business practice. I may not like everything Apple does, but I assure you, I can submit feedback and they usually get around to doing most of the requests i have, as long as the request is a reasonable request.    THey haven't screwed up enough for me to switch. Microsoft has.  Once they screw up to the point where I switch, I RARELY go back.  I just have a tough time buying an Android product when I can't buy something that has the latest OS on it and can't get updates in a timely manner.  Plus, Google isn't a IT based company.  They make their money from ad revenue and ad clicks.  They have proven they are running open loop by how they manage their products.  Not a; reliable company for me to rely on.  

post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I'm not a fan of it either, I prefer reading about Google on forums specific to them. Even the Android forums I frequent have nowhere near the amount of bashing Appleinsider does. It's getting to the point where it's comical, just plain petty.

You're not a fan of this type of thing yet in most threads, you post something to denigrate Apple. Recall the stories about how many cracked iPhone screens you've seen at a party, how many non-iPads you've seen on the trading floor, how the Nokia Lumia is so much better than an iPhone, going on about the limitations of iOS, how suddenly because Apple decided to use AMD in the new Mac Pro, the CUDA software you don't even have won't run anywhere near as fast as on non-Apple hardware, how Apple hasn't really invented anything and is just riding off other people's innovations.

This isn't a bashing article. Google reported false information and they got called on it. On many occasions you claim to not be tied into one particular manufacturer, the implication being that Apple users just buy everything Apple no matter what but if that's the case then why have a problem with Google's falsehoods being corrected? If you defend everything so long as it's not Apple, that's not impartial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
Why can't I change the default web-browser, MS was sued and lost because of that a few years back.

MS had a 90%+ marketshare, Apple doesn't. Also Apple adheres to open standards, MS didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
I don't want to see all of my apps, why can't I have a custom home screen where I can populate with what I want like; widgets, notes, or just a big clock because I like a clean look.

I'd rather remove the widgets from Android and just get straight to the apps. I assume that's possible to do. OS designers make choices about functionality and design. If they added widgets, you'd be one of the first to suggest they are just playing catch up to Android. There's always suggestions Apple should do things the same as Android and when they do anything that looks remotely similar like notifications or design, people criticize them for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
Every OS has it's upside and downside, saying that you dislike Android is absolutely fine but calling it a cheap knockoff isn't. Everything that Apple has done in iOS has been done before, granted not as visually stunning but none the less nothing we haven't seen before, icons in a grid, heck icons, notifications, what, please tell me what is so revolutionary that it can't be used on another platform because it is so sacred to Apple.

I honestly like, iOS, Android, Windows X, Unix, Linux, Symbian, Plan 9, OSX, Risc OS, BeOS, OS, OS2 or eComStation, Amiga, MeegOS, ect. I understand your passion for Apple's OS's, their wonderful to use, intuitive, fast, unique but they've come to light because of other peoples ideas.

More Apple bashing. Android wasn't designed for a touch UI, it had no software keyboard. The appearance and behaviour of the OS was taken from Apple almost immediately after Apple showed it off. Apple's operating systems are also heavily based on NeXT, it's not just some off-the-shelf unix. The first versions of the internet were developed on NeXT OS:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/oct/16/tim-berners-lee-steve-jobs

"Inventor of the world wide web describes how the Unix-based NeXT Computer he unpacked in 1990 came ready to run - unlike most of the Unix boxes he had to deal with"

You can dismiss their input to the computing world as simple 'repackaging' but it would be doing them a disservice. If you think the computers, smartphones and tablets you use every day would have been the same without Apple, you are very much mistaken and they've earned the success they have, especially with the iPad. When Google misreports numbers to feed people's misguided attempts at dethroning Apple, there's nothing wrong with setting the record straight.
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