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Google caught using misleading report to claim Nexus 7 outsold iPad in Japan - Page 3

post #81 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


You're not a fan of this type of thing yet in most threads, you post something to denigrate Apple. Recall the stories about how many cracked iPhone screens you've seen at a party, how many non-iPads you've seen on the trading floor, how the Nokia Lumia is so much better than an iPhone, going on about the limitations of iOS, how suddenly because Apple decided to use AMD in the new Mac Pro, the CUDA software you don't even have won't run anywhere near as fast as on non-Apple hardware, how Apple hasn't really invented anything and is just riding off other people's innovations.

This isn't a bashing article. Google reported false information and they got called on it. On many occasions you claim to not be tied into one particular manufacturer, the implication being that Apple users just buy everything Apple no matter what but if that's the case then why have a problem with Google's falsehoods being corrected? If you defend everything so long as it's not Apple, that's not impartial.
MS had a 90%+ marketshare, Apple doesn't. Also Apple adheres to open standards, MS didn't.
I'd rather remove the widgets from Android and just get straight to the apps. I assume that's possible to do. OS designers make choices about functionality and design. If they added widgets, you'd be one of the first to suggest they are just playing catch up to Android. There's always suggestions Apple should do things the same as Android and when they do anything that looks remotely similar like notifications or design, people criticize them for it.
More Apple bashing. Android wasn't designed for a touch UI, it had no software keyboard. The appearance and behaviour of the OS was taken from Apple almost immediately after Apple showed it off. Apple's operating systems are also heavily based on NeXT, it's not just some off-the-shelf unix. The first versions of the internet were developed on NeXT OS:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/oct/16/tim-berners-lee-steve-jobs

"Inventor of the world wide web describes how the Unix-based NeXT Computer he unpacked in 1990 came ready to run - unlike most of the Unix boxes he had to deal with"

You can dismiss their input to the computing world as simple 'repackaging' but it would be doing them a disservice. If you think the computers, smartphones and tablets you use every day would have been the same without Apple, you are very much mistaken and they've earned the success they have, especially with the iPad. When Google misreports numbers to feed people's misguided attempts at dethroning Apple, there's nothing wrong with setting the record straight.

Don't waste your time with Relic. She obviously doesn't like Apple and can't seem to understand that this site is an Apple-centric site.  She likes collecting gadgets.

 

She doesn't realize that if Android OS kept up with it's original path of having a smartphone with a physical keyboard, that Android would be no where, because as soon as the iPhone came out, Android changed direction and tried to emulate an iOS device.  Pathetic really.

post #82 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Samsung buys market share by spitting out some old GIngerbread phone that's sold for $150 list and discounted down to $99 for the unlocked version, but that device makes ZERO profit.  It's a lost leader, product dump rather than to make any money.  It's a deceptive practice to try to buy market share and it usually catches up with these companies.

 

What phones do you think that Samsung is selling at a loss?

 

Phones don't have to cost much to produce, and they don't need to make hundreds of dollars each to turn a profit.  Heck, Nokia just introduced the following feature phone for $20... and still makes 30% profit.

 

 

As for smartphones, with modern all-in-one chips, building one has become like building smart toys. Almost anyone can do it.

 

There are dozens (if not hundreds) of small manufacturers in places like China and India, who build and sell smartphones for under $100... some of whom have become multi-million dollar companies, like Xiaomi, which is known as "The Apple of the East".  

 

Interestingly, Xiaomi introduced a (4.3" 720p display, 2GB RAM)  $320 smartphone last April in multiple colors:

 

 

Local companies like those are the competition that both Samsung and Apple really have to contend with.

post #83 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

What phones do you think that Samsung is selling at a loss?

 

Phones don't have to cost much to produce, and they don't need to make hundreds of dollars each to turn a profit.  Heck, Nokia just introduced the following feature phone for $20... and still makes 30% profit.

 

 

As for smartphones, with modern all-in-one chips, building one has become like building smart toys. Almost anyone can do it.

 

There are dozens (if not hundreds) of small manufacturers in places like China and India, who build and sell smartphones for under $100... some of whom have become multi-million dollar companies, like Xiaomi, which is known as "The Apple of the East".  

 

Interestingly, Xiaomi introduced a (4.3" 720p display, 2GB RAM)  $320 smartphone last April in multiple colors:

 

 

Local companies like those are the competition that both Samsung and Apple really have to contend with.

I think the Samscum Aspire are selling at a loss. They are $150 List price for an unlocked phone.  The resellers discount them down to $99.  How much does it cost to mfg the thing, recoup the marketing and R&D, tooling, and shipping charges, warranty returns on that type of product?  How much do they sell them to the resellers for?  They sell a ton of these $150 list price phones to people that don't have any money.  It's got to cost them somewhere in the $50 to $75 range just mfg them, but how much does it cost for tooling, R&D, marketing, absorbing so many under warranty, and shipping costs?  That's a break-even or money loosing product.

post #84 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think the Samscum Aspire are selling at a loss. They are $150 List price for an unlocked phone.  The resellers discount them down to $99.  How much does it cost to mfg the thing, recoup the marketing and R&D, tooling, and shipping charges, warranty returns on that type of product?  How much do they sell them to the resellers for?  They sell a ton of these $150 list price phones to people that don't have any money.  It's got to cost them somewhere in the $50 to $75 range just mfg them, but how much does it cost for tooling, R&D, marketing, absorbing so many under warranty, and shipping costs?  That's a break-even or money loosing product.

You can't make money on a mobile device that sells for $200 or less unless you have some serious markup.  You have so much in shrinkage due to warranty returns/repairs, you have tooling charges, R&D expense, shipping charges, advertising/marketing costs, commissions to the sales reps that sell to their big major accounts, whining and dining their accounts.  Do you think Samsung just gets an order from Verizon, AT&T, etc over the internet for 10 million units without paying a sale rep a commission and the rep taking the accounts out to expensive dinners, etc.  Dream on. There is a cost of sales associated with these things.  if they sold most of their product on-line direct to each customer at full retail, they MIGHT make a little profit on these types of devices.  Do you understand how a mfg costs things out?    a REAL company that manages their business properly has a product line and they treat it and measure it like a separate business, if you will with it's own P&L statements to see if a specific product made any money.  How many phone models does Samsung have?  160 some odd phones.  That's just a TON of product to keep track of, some they make money off of until they have to start discounting them to make a sale.  It also depends on what kinds of sales spiffs and other concessions they give large resellers, which they do.  Samsung was handing out $25 Spiff checks to reseller reps when the S3 hit, that comes off the profit margin of a product.   Lots of things to figure out whether or not they make any profit on a particular product.

post #85 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

What phones do you think that Samsung is selling at a loss?

 

Phones don't have to cost much to produce, and they don't need to make hundreds of dollars each to turn a profit.  Heck, Nokia just introduced the following feature phone for $20... and still makes 30% profit.

 

 

As for smartphones, with modern all-in-one chips, building one has become like building smart toys. Almost anyone can do it.

 

There are dozens (if not hundreds) of small manufacturers in places like China and India, who build and sell smartphones for under $100... some of whom have become multi-million dollar companies, like Xiaomi, which is known as "The Apple of the East".  

 

Interestingly, Xiaomi introduced a (4.3" 720p display, 2GB RAM)  $320 smartphone last April in multiple colors:

 

 

Local companies like those are the competition that both Samsung and Apple really have to contend with.

 

You think a MFG can survive on 30% gross profit when they are making hardware?   Well, if you have that mentality, you piss off your shareholders.  In the hardware game, you have to have at LEAST 37 to 40% gross profits, if not more.  In the software only, they typically get around 90% gross profit since the cost of goods is essentially the price of pressing a CD/DVD and some little packaging, but now they are going digital download so the cost of goods is nothing, so they just have their normal SG&A/R&D expense..  But 30% gross margin will probably yield after tax profits, maybe 1% to 10% which isn't that much net profit.  Institutional shareholders that can drive the stock price up want to see some decent profits, otherwise they don't buy your stock, the stock price doesn't do much and you as the CEO might have to pack your bags and go elsewhere.  Apple does, as a business, overall about 37% and the analysts bitch and complain about that not being high enough profit margin.  They SHOULD be looking at getting 40%, consistently from their entire product line, and being able to Net around 25 to maybe 30%.  That's a well managed hardware mfg.  If you look at Apple, they like making 30% profit margin on iTunes stuff, but there really isn't much that they do to sell it, it's kind of just being a reseller that passes the product from one hand to another, but their hardware, they HAVE to make more like 40% or more since they discount the product to resellers.  So if Apple sells a $3000 computer to a reseller, they only really get around $2500 or so because the reseller has to mark it up at least 10% or so to make it worth their while, so depending on whether the product sells direct through the on-line Apple Store or a physical Apple Store or reseller will dictate how much profit margin they have on the product.   Look at what Chip mfg make on their products.  Intel, for example, had gross sales of $53 Bill, cost of goods was $20 BIl, so their profit margin was a LOT more than 30%, but they retained, after SG&A, Taxes, etc. $11 Bil which is about 20% and some analysts would like to see higher profits.  Hardware mfg can't survive on 30% gross profit on hardware sales..

 

Do you have a finance background?  I do.  Have you ever looked that annual reports of different types of companies in different market sectors (hardware mfg, software mfg, retail store chains, etc.)  to see what the industry does compared to what a specific company does in terms of profit margins, etc.?  30% gross margin is low for a hardware mfg making computer products.  

post #86 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think the Samscum Aspire are selling at a loss. 

 

What is a Samscum Aspire?

 

(Aspires are laptops, aren't they?)

post #87 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Don't waste your time with Relic. She obviously doesn't like Apple and can't seem to understand that this site is an Apple-centric site.

I love you too sweety 1biggrin.gif
Edited by Relic - 8/1/13 at 12:42pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #88 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

What is a Samscum Aspire?

(Aspires are laptops, aren't they?)

...and made by Acer not Samsung.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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