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Microsoft Surface revenue at $853M, less than write-down and associated ad-spend - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Poor Xerox, nobody seems to remember that everyone else actually stole from them...

 

False. Everyone knows this.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #42 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

I guess the choreography didn't pay off.

 

Heh. Neither did Microsoft Office. 1tongue.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #43 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

False. Everyone knows this.

To clarify, you mean that everyone knows the quoted statement is false and not that it is common knowledge that "everyone stole from Xerox", right.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #44 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmoser View Post

You know- I know it's trendy to hate Microsoft on this site, but those Surface tablets are not that bad. They aren't 'great', but they are not bad hardware, and I actually liked the tiled interface. It's different, and isn't a 'me too!' design like the Samsungs of the world have.

The GUI sucks as a desktop interface, there's no arguing that, but I wouldn't mind owning one... if I didn't already have my iPad(s) and they had the same amount of apps.

Flame away.
The surface is too fat for my liking. About the live tiles I don't mind that too much but the whole running 2 apps at the same time is implemented in a not so good way. Lacks apps aswell. Plus the whole kick stand and additional 100$ keyboard in my opinion aren't cool.
post #45 of 120
DOA.

Then again, it's Microsoft we're talking about. Just as clueless today as they were years ago.
post #46 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Not "has made only $853 million".
Has grossed only $853M.
The problem is that "made" can mean gross revenue or net profit.

If it means net profit, then I am a dead man, who is born in 2020 C.E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post


The surface is too fat for my liking. About the live tiles I don't mind that too much but the whole running 2 apps at the same time is implemented in a not so good way. Lacks apps aswell. Plus the whole kick stand and additional 100$ keyboard in my opinion aren't cool.

Yeah, to fat, multiple-apps was done in a stupid way.  I don't see a problem with the kickstand, if anything, that was a really cool idea.  The keyboard should have come with it.  They probably would have doubled sales just from that alone.

-QAMF
 

Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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Active on S}A forums.  S|A student level subscriber.  Don't claim to know what is in the articles.

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post #47 of 120
What a shame! They wasted more money in negative ads and commercials against the iPad instead of promoting the qualities that makes it a standout from iPad. Wrong priorities!
post #48 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by QAMF View Post

1. yeah.


2. Jobs, for the genius he was, was not what most would consider a kind person.  At least, that is the impression I get from biography from Walter Isaacson.  If I remember that right, he didn't even give that much to charity.  That is how he was.
-QAMF

Just because you didn't see a press release or video, doesn't mean Jobs wasn't charitable.
post #49 of 120

I wonder how much smart covers (non Apple ones) they sold with all promotions they put in front of RT

 


Edited by dragan0405 - 7/30/13 at 9:14pm
post #50 of 120
*click*
post #51 of 120
*click*
post #52 of 120
Sad news, actually. I sure hope this doesn't mean the ouster of Ballmer. Man, I like that guy, running ruining MS! Company's value slashed in half over the past decade with him at the helm.
post #53 of 120

Im sorry but MSFT needs to be more ruthless like Apple and cut off support so they can innovate. Backwards compatibility past 3 years makes no sense when technology doubles every two years. 

post #54 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmoser View Post

You know- I know it's trendy to hate Microsoft on this site, but those Surface tablets are not that bad. 

"Not that bad... Yeah. That's like, "She wasn't that bad." "Her breath stunk but she was not that bad at kissing if you didn't mind ending up with her gum." 

 

"It rained for our whole vacation, but otherwise it wasn't that bad..." Microsoft is "not that bad" as a company... Ballmer is "not that bad" as an idiot... 

 

The Surface RT "isn't that bad" unless you want to do something with it... The Surface Pro is "not that bad"... you can even watch a movie while you create a PowerPoint. Well, you need to upgrade to 128 Gbs in order to do it. Yeah, Like I want to do that. The Surface Pro is "not that bad" if you don't mind the fan running and blowing hot air in your face...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #55 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Im sorry but MSFT needs to be more ruthless like Apple and cut off support so they can innovate. Backwards compatibility past 3 years makes no sense when technology doubles every two years. 

How'd that work for them with the Surface RT? It wasn't backward compatible with a single thing... nor was it even presently compatible with anything... 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #56 of 120
The Surface is a tablet designed for people that love Windows. But does anyone really love Windows? I mean LOVE it not merely put up with it or use it to run programs they do love. There may be people in the world who truly love Windows but I have never met one.
post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

the RT is totally Dead Man Walking. its brand ID itself is hopelessly destroyed. MS should mercifully pull the plug - tomorrow. if instead MS insanely insists on a V2 model this Fall, we are truly watching Ballmer's Folly.

 

the Pro MS can prop up indefinitely i suppose, no matter how token the sales. and i know who buys them - all those MS IT guys who had the best years of their lives with Windows 95 and will never let go until the day they die.

 

The Surface Pro only runs Win 8 and a lot of the IT guys get hives thinking about mixing that in with their company's Win 7 or earlier. 

 

Did you know that MS put Win 8 with touchscreens on their newer servers, and IT had such a fit MS Had to backtrack??

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthound74 View Post

Although the Surface has pretty much been a failure for MS, I have a big problem with the statement,

mostly because its inaccurate.  The XBOX360 which is "computer hardware" has been and continues to be massively successful.

 

Another opinion with absolutely ZERO merit.  Again..XBOX360, wouldn't be such a sucess if it wasn't both creative and highly desired.

You don't know jack...      The xbox lost billions for MS in the years 2001 through 2007 and only started making money for MS in 2008.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete...

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete...

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post #59 of 120

Remember when all the trolls, Apple haters, and Microsoft fanatics were announcing the end for the iPad as soon as the surface was released? Because people could finally buy a "real computer" that they could do "real work" on instead of the "toy" the iPad was, and how development support for the surface would eclipse anything the iPad had because of "Windows developers", etc? How the surface was the best of both worlds, "no compromise" device?

 

I sure do. 

post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Remember when all the trolls, Apple haters, and Microsoft fanatics were announcing the end for the iPad as soon as the surface was released? Because people could finally buy a "real computer" that they could do "real work" on instead of the "toy" the iPad was, and how development support for the surface would eclipse anything the iPad had because of "Windows developers", etc? How the surface was the best of both worlds, "no compromise" device?

 

I sure do. 

 

Yep, me too.

 

When anyone says that "Product X has has been built without compromise" ... you just know that there will be plenty of compromises.

 

Every single product made is compromised in some way and when companies say it's not then you know they are desperate. The skill of a company, and this is where Apple continually gets it so right, is knowing where to compromise.

post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Sad news, actually. I sure hope this doesn't mean the ouster of Ballmer. Man, I like that guy, running ruining MS! Company's value slashed in half over the past decade with him at the helm.

Cook accomplished the same in just over a year.

 

Don't read this as me defending Microsoft, I just think that these comments are ridiculous.

post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Cook accomplished the same in just over a year.

 

But he also doubled it in the first place.

JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

The Surface is a tablet designed for people that love Windows. But does anyone really love Windows? I mean LOVE it not merely put up with it or use it to run programs they do love. There may be people in the world who truly love Windows but I have never met one.

 

Yeah, and just imagine what will happen when one of the major reasons to have Windows (i.e. MS Office) is free and provides functionality that meets at least 80% (if not 90% or more) of the requirements of all office suite product users. As many contend (myself included) MS Office advanced functionality, while extremely useful, includes features only a very small number of people ever use (20 years in IT and I used a pivot table one time), the vast majority use none of those advanced features (ever).

 

It's entirely possible that Apple will offer iWork for free on the web and iWork for free on the Mac and/or iPad, there are already several (many?) other suites available for free, this is a trend that will continue, not reverse. The world of office suite functionality is moving into standard functionality offered with each OS (because it's mature and most likely there simply are no major innovations to come in letter writing or spreadsheet creating or slideshow producing) - it won't be long till they all provide this base functionality, and this particular "lock" into Windows which Office provides will be gone, poof!

 

Running Office on the Surface is supposed to be one of its major USPs, but if the value of running Office on anything is less (or nothing to most people), then this tablet has lost a lot of its perceived value too. The Surface is just another wail heard from a slowly dying giant, and unless they do something radical, will be merely a sign of yet more things to come (it's not the first time they've failed like this).

 

Do we really think a v2 of this product will achieve something different?

post #64 of 120
nkalu View Post
What a shame! They wasted more money in negative ads and commercials against the iPad instead of promoting the qualities that makes it a standout from iPad. Wrong priorities!

I completely agree. They didn't need to spend how many hundreds of millions in ad spots telling people that attaching the keyboard makes a click. I'm sure some iPad keyboards do that as well. 

Advertising has never ever been Microsoft's forte. For that matter, every Android commercial I've seen is like Michael Bay meets 5 Gum. Android phones can crack concrete walls, look like The Matrix inside their cases, and turn a live concert recording into a 160' projection?...

 

GrangerFX View Post
The Surface is a tablet designed for people that love Windows. But does anyone really love Windows? I mean LOVE it not merely put up with it or use it to run programs they do love. There may be people in the world who truly love Windows but I have never met one.

The closest I've ever found are IT consultants whose careers depend on Windows continuing to be obtuse for normal humans. Which is also why they don't like Win8's push to be more user friendly, though it could just be a reaction to Microsoft's terrible execution in this field, as usual.

 

Epsico View Post
PhilBoogie View Post
Sad news, actually. I sure hope this doesn't mean the ouster of Ballmer. Man, I like that guy, running ruining MS! Company's value slashed in half over the past decade with him at the helm.

Cook accomplished the same in just over a year.

Referring to a general sense of value to the customer base, or just plain old stock? Because the stock market really doesn't understand how Apple operates. They could sell a billion iPhone 5S next quarter, and if the quarter after that is "only" 0.9 billion, stock analysts scream for everyone to dump their shares because "Apple is doomed."

[this account has been abandoned]

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[this account has been abandoned]

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post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Poor Xerox, nobody seems to remember that everyone else actually stole from them...

 

Gates is doing a lot more for the planet than many billionaires ever did or will ever do, and this includes Jobs.  Jobs might have contributed to charity, but Gates is funding research.  Credit to where it's due.

Here goes again the old myth of Apple stole from Xerox.

 

Let's straighten some facts.

 

Apple has pay Xerox with shares to make use of Xerox research.   Xerox never was and never want to be a computer company, so they sold all computer research assets to anyone who want to buy it.  Soon after most researcher of Parc institute has join Apple and the Lisa team.

 

There is no poor Xerox here, they received their shares of profit. 

 

Besides, can you name me one thing Gates has ever created? Gates has not put a single dime into research for Basic, DOS, Windows and Office. They bought or copy every piece of technology they own. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 7/31/13 at 6:30am
post #66 of 120

Asus drops WinRT.

 

Quote:

ASUS Chairman Jonney Shih said this week that his company had no plans to design or manufacture any more Windows RT devices. The reason? They sell poorly because people still use lots of classic Windows desktop applications, which don’t work with Windows RT.

“The result is not very promising,” Mr. Shih told All Things D’s Ina Fried in a recent interview, referring to poor sales of Windows RT devices. He noted further that of all the bizarre and odd-ball products his company has built—including “teeny-tiny laptops, phones that turn into tablets, and even a seven-inch tablet that can be held to the ear to make phone calls”—only Windows RT has been an actual failure.

Microsoft can't be very happy about that. Looks like it's not just the Zune RT people don't want. No one wants the OS in general.

post #67 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Poor Xerox, nobody seems to remember that everyone else actually stole from them...

 

Gates is doing a lot more for the planet than many billionaires ever did or will ever do, and this includes Jobs.  Jobs might have contributed to charity, but Gates is funding research.  Credit to where it's due.

 

Wrong.  Read this, including the letters from Bruce Horn and Jef Raskin.

post #68 of 120
Jean Louis Gassée's spoof memo...
"Burn Before Reading"

http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/07/22/the-rebirth-of-windows-mobile/
post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dav View Post

 

Wrong.  Read this, including the letters from Bruce Horn and Jef Raskin.

Thanks for that, it contradicts the idea that I have, I'll have to didgest that information.

post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Thanks for that, it contradicts the idea that I have, I'll have to didgest that information.

It's a well-known distortion of history that Apple "stole" from Xerox PARC. They gave Xerox PARC options for 100,000 shares at a $10 pre-IPO price in exchange for being able to see their work and use the ideas. Maybe next time you should do a few minutes of research before spewing your anti-Apple screed? Since that's all it would have taken to disprove your claim.

post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Microsoft has developed one good 1.0 product. One. In 1985. And it didn't run on a PC.

Everything else they bought or stole or it took them 3 tries to get right.

There is no internal creativity within Microsoft, and definitely no ability to develop a consumer desired device.

I do believe they got "Clippy" right on the first try. And Clippy was a very creative product, so that's TWO products.  Oh, wait, you said "good" products.  Nevermind.

post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

It's a well-known distortion of history that Apple "stole" from Xerox PARC. They gave Xerox PARC options for 100,000 shares at a $10 pre-IPO price in exchange for being able to see their work and use the ideas. Maybe next time you should do a few minutes of research before spewing your anti-Apple screed? Since that's all it would have taken to disprove your claim.

I did not say anything "anti-Apple", at most I said something pro-Xerox.  I'm not anti-anything, unlike many people here.  The facts that made me post originally remain untouched, though: many of the concepts used on modern computers, ranging from the mouse to network protocols are commonly rooted in Xerox.  Perhaps there was an agreement between Apple and Xerox, but there's no denying that Xerox understood the concept long before everyone else, they just didn't see the potential in personal computers, and at that point they had already been found guilty of monopolistic behavior and forced to license their entire patent portfolio, so wanting or not they would have to license their research.

post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Microsoft has developed one good 1.0 product. One. In 1985. And it didn't run on a PC.

Everything else they bought or stole or it took them 3 tries to get right.

There is no internal creativity within Microsoft, and definitely no ability to develop a consumer desired device.

Xenix was actually quite a good product. At the time, it was one of the most widespread Unix versions.

post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

I did not say anything "anti-Apple", at most I said something pro-Xerox.

Well, other than how you wrongfully claimed that they stole from Xerox.

post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

the xbox and xbox 360 have lost billions.  And both finished in third place in the console wars.  So yeah, there are failures

No, that's how you interpreted my sarcasm.  Another way you could have interpreted it was as me stating it's disingenuous to claim that Microsoft copied Apple when the research was actually conducted at Xerox, meaning Apple is not the victim you want to present it as.

post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

No, that's how you interpreted my sarcasm.  Another way you could have interpreted it was as me stating it's disingenuous to claim that Microsoft copied Apple when the research was actually conducted at Xerox, meaning Apple is not the victim you want to present it as.

Sure, the initial research was done at Xerox. It does not mean that Apple did not greatly expand upon that initial work or do any innovations of their own. Sorry, but your conclusion does not follow since you have a flawed premise.

post #77 of 120

As always, we have to question whether Microsoft's numbers reflect net actual sales to consumers (factoring in returns - sales which did not "stick"), or whether this is their usual "injected into channel" numbers.

post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Cook accomplished the same in just over a year.

Don't read this as me defending Microsoft, I just think that these comments are ridiculous.

Cook didn't do anything, Wall Street dropped Apple so they could all buy in again.
post #79 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

Sure, the initial research was done at Xerox. It does not mean that Apple did not greatly expand upon that initial work or do any innovations of their own. Sorry, but your conclusion does not follow since you have a flawed premise.


I believe Apple used some concepts that pre-dated Xerox PARC, some concepts from Xerox PARC, and developed new ideas of their own, in order to create a unique, innovative product.

post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico View Post

Cook accomplished the same in just over a year.

 

Don't read this as me defending Microsoft, I just think that these comments are ridiculous.

You mean after the stock price doubled in just over a year of his tenure as CEO? Or how the stock price even at its lowest point after the peak was still 10% higher than it ever was prior to him running Apple? Or as he lead Apple during times of its all-time greatest quarters with respect to both revenues and profits? So basically his tenure at Apple is basically nothing similar to what Ballmer has been doing.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dav View Post


I believe Apple used some concepts that pre-dated Xerox PARC, some concepts from Xerox PARC, and developed new ideas of their own, in order to create a unique, innovative product.

Exactly. Anyone who tries to claim that Apple only copied PARC's work and did nothing of their own are completely ignorant.

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