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Google to become official Starbucks ISP as critics claim net neutrality backpedal - Page 3

post #81 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'm sorry but I just can't get as worked up as you when, unlike the credit reporting agencies or even some of the service providers, they don't sell any of that data to others to do with as they see fit. Unless of course you can pinpoint some nefarious use Google makes of what they know. Targeted ads are hardly a nefarious use. Afterall even Apple does it and we already know they only have the best interests of their users at heart. Or perhaps what you're saying is a company like Apple won't be truly evil until they're demonstrably successful with targeted apps using their customers profiles? That success may be right around the corner. With iRadio and some other recent Apple initiatives they may be making some headway in monetizing their userbase.

 

So once again your "argument", if you can call it that, is that other companies do it too, so it must be okay.  But that's wrong.  Other companies do it too, and it's just as bad.  The big difference is that they're not as good at it, and no one has fingers that go nearly as deep in as many places.  Facebook and Apple have deep reach in certain pockets, if you use their services, but they are much easier to avoid.  Think about it, Apple doesn't have hosted code sitting on tens of millions of independent web sites around the world, but Google does.  Facebook as well.  Waaaaay more than people understand.

 

Frankly, I see you do this over and over and over.  We point out something bad about what Google is doing, and the only thing you can come up with is that others do it as well.  Two wrongs don't make a right, neither do three or four wrongs.  Really, really weak argument.

 

It's not okay for ANY company or organization (or government) to have the amount of personal, locational and behavioral information that Google has on as many people as they do.  Ever.  Probably a literal majority of internet users, regardless of whether they "subscribe" to Google services or not.  If you don't understand or believe this is bad, then there's not much point in conversing.


Edited by Blah64 - 8/2/13 at 11:14pm
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post #82 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Are you talking about using free WiFi?    As you said, there's no such thing as "free".

 

Big difference though.  When I go into a coffee shop and use their WiFi, I'm "paying" for it by ordering food or drink.  That is the expectation, and in some places there are even posted requests or enforced limits in place that make you order something every 2 hours to continue using their WiFi.  There is NO expectation that they are gathering personal information about me (I sure as hell don't use #$!@! loyalty cards!).  When Google is running their network, those expectations may be tainted.  I can't be sure yet because we don't know what the "rules" will be, but if they require any kind of session-identification, accounts, or anything like that, I will absolutely never patronize Starbucks again.  Sometimes they're convenient, but there are lots of other options.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

I never use WiFi for sensitive stuff outside of my own home or work.   Everywhere else I use LTE.

 

I'm sure we have very, very different notions of "sensitive stuff", because I wouldn't do anything sensitive over LTE either, unless it was encrypted.  But for me, sensitive stuff includes any kind of personal information whatsoever, i.e. names, phone numbers, addresses, personal likes/dislikes, purchases, social graph data, finances, medical-related info, pretty much anything that's personal in nature and database-able doesn't belong in any commercial company's database.  That includes Google and every other fucking data whorehouse, er, warehousing organization.  It's all bullshit.  I'm sure you have a different opinion.

 


Quote:

As for Google, they don't worry me.  They don't sell my personal info to anyone.  They just sell ad slots.

 

They are in possession of practically unimaginable data/power.  No matter what they are doing with that data right now, in 2013, you should be worried about that fact.  

 

Also, while they may not SELL it in the ways many people believe, they are giving it away FREE to our federal gov't.  The cover on that has been blown wide open, and it's nice to see that many tens of millions of people are very pissed off about it.  

 

Does that worry you?

 


Quote:

I usually like that they know my location and preferences so I get the best results.   Plus I have a level of control over what they keep, via the Dashboard.  And when I don't think that's enough, I sign out and go anonymous.

 

I believe you're an intelligent guy, based on many of your posts.  I disagree with you on this topic, but I think you are bright enough to have a grasp of reality, so when I read something like this I'm not sure what to make of it.  It comes across like a very clever shill, and yet I'm not ready to accuse you of that, yet.

 

You have NO control over what they keep (let alone gather), only what they're showing you.  The dashboard only shows a very small portion of the data that Google has on you.  Especially if you use any of their services.  I can't imagine that you really believe this, so why are you saying it?  

 

And why on Earth would you think that merely by signing out of your account that Google is no longer monitoring your session?  Do you think so little of Google's 5,000 PhDs (or whatever they're up to now) that you really believe you are "going anonymous" just because you've signed out of your account?  Really??  Google is very, very, very good at what they do.  Even if you're sharing a computer in the same house with a spouse and never ever sign into their services, they can tell with fairly good certainty that there are 2 of you using that computer and can probably tell who is using it a good deal of the time.  Please don't even pretend to refute this.

 


Quote:

What I do worry about, are all the other ad networks that don't have any transparency at all, or as much incentive to keep info safe.  No idea who they sell info to.

 

Yes, you should worry about them as well.  How do you protect yourself against them?

 

Remember, the data Google is collecting will live forever.  Their management, terms of service, transparency and trustability will all change over the coming years.  This is something that should worry everyone.

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post #83 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post


Frankly, I see you do this over and over and over.  We point out something bad about what Google is doing, and the only thing you can come up with is that others do it as well.  Two wrongs don't make a right, neither do three or four wrongs.  Really, really weak argument.

Sorry, but I'm not agreeing with you in the first place that Google (almost always ONLY Google) or Apple or anyone else is doing something wrong simply by gathering as much information as they can to better understand their markets and the consumers of their product or services.

]I've seen you over and over claiming Google is doing something evil, yet when pressed you never have anything specific to point to other than "they gather more information than anyone should have". Big deal. Even you and I do the same thing on a much lesser scale. We research and read and listen and make notes and research some more. How else would you suggest that a person or company become the best they can be in whatever tweaks their imagination?

When you figure out the nefarious and evil thing that Google (or Apple for that matter) is doing with what they understand about you and me let us know. Then we can have a real discussion rather than talking about the imaginary monsters under the bed.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/14/13 at 5:14am
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post #84 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Sorry, but I'm not agreeing with you in the first place that Google or Apple or anyone else is doing something wrong simply by gathering as much information as they can to better understand their markets and the consumers of their product or services. I've seen you do this over and over, claiming Google is doing something evil, yet when pressed you never have anything specific to point to other than "they gather information that no one should know". Big deal. Even you and I do the same thing on a much lesser scale. We research and read and listen and make notes and research some more. How else would you suggest that a person or company become the best they can be in whatever tweaks their imagination?

When you figure out the nefarious and evil thing that Google is doing with what they understand about you and me let us know. Then we can have a real discussion rather than talking about the imaginary monsters under the bed.

I have read on a variety of articles or comments that Google has actually, in the past (don't know if they actually did this or if they are still doing it) whereby they passed on various information to the app developer if you bought something through Google Play.  Now, I don't wish to have any personal information, especially something like a credit card numbers, email addresses, etc. passed on to another party without my knowledge or consent.  Obviously, I have no way of validating that Google does this other than what I have read from a variety of different sources.  What I don't particularly care for is how Google does business in general.  I was using You Tube and there were some issues I had and I could not find the answers through their Help section.  I found a phone number to actually call You Tube, which IS owned by Google, and I called to see if I could talk to an actual human being regarding a technical issue.  NO ONE answered the phone.  NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL.  Sorry, but if they have a phone number, the person should be able to talk to a live person. They are a big enough company where there should be human beings on the other end. They had a routing system where if I pressed for to get connected to a person regarding technical issues, but again NO ONE answered the phone.  If I call Apple, I get a live person.  EVERY time.  PERIOD.  I also find Google to be a very immature in a lot of ways in how they do their business model. 

 

Google is not the best they can be when it comes to making useful products.   They can't even get their OEMS to have an updated OS on the products they sell. To buy a high end phone and to always be at least one or two OS updates is just wrong.  There is NO excuse for that.  Imagine that.  You cannot walk into any store and buy a Non-Nexus product with the latest OS version, if it does, it's a matter of weeks or a month or two when that product gets obsoleted.  Example. the S4 ships with 4.2.2, back in May that was the latest OS, but as of about a week ago, it isn't.  This new Moto X made by Motorola, which is OWNED by Google, is shipping with 4.2.2, not 4.3, which is the latest OS.   If Apple did that, they would be crucified, but with Google/Android, everyone in the media and even their users seem to ignore this obscenely despicable method of keeping their products up to date.  To me, it insults my intelligence that a company can get away with this and that people simply ignore this worst practices approach to marketing products.  Having decades of experience in the IT industry, companies should cease to exist if they have this sort of practice.

 

I couldn't care less about any Google product. I will NEVER buy any of their products.  PERIOD.  I wish I didn't even have to know as much, or as little about their crap.  If an Android user tries to attack me for having this opinion, that's THEIR problem.  Google sucks.  Completely wrong company to do business with.  Thank God Apple is around to choose from other than the alternatives.  Apple isn't perfect, but they are getting closer and closer and that's what I care about.  At least they answer the phone in a timely manner.  Last time I called Apple, it only took 1:55 seconds until I got a very pleasant live person on the other end of the phone to help me.  Google can't do that, they seem to busy playing with their Google Glass, widgets and masturbating to some stupid feature they have.


Edited by drblank - 8/3/13 at 7:02am
post #85 of 85
So is a NAS (Synology et al) providing remote access to files and php/MySQL apps for back office operations via the Internet a "server" for the purposes of this discussion?
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