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DOJ settlement would require Apple to allow links to Amazon, Barnes & Noble e-book stores - Page 2

post #41 of 88
The DOJ settlement would also go beyond e-books, prohibiting Apple from entering agreements with suppliers of "music, movies, television shows or other content that are likely to increase the prices at which Apple's competitor retailers may sell that content.

This doesn't make sense (in addition to all the other inconsistencies).
Amazon already competes with iTunes and is cheaper for some content.
How can they retroactively impose conditions?
post #42 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave MacLachlan View Post

 

Considering that some of the people who post here may not have English as their native language, it's always nice to just take a moment and wonder how well you might do making a post in their own language.

A job worth doing is worth doing well, is it not ?  How can one learn if nobody will take the time to inform ?

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post #43 of 88
"The DOJ settlement would also go beyond e-books, prohibiting Apple from entering agreements with suppliers of "music, movies, television shows or other content..."

Whoa! This is reaching. And it seems a little extreme.
post #44 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Apple should take that deal... but amazon must be forced to allow ibooks on there ecosystem...

Or how about the nobody forces anything on anybody?

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post #45 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

Apple should stop censoring links period. They make enough money on HW margins and the 30% cut they're trying to take from others is pure greed.

This again.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #46 of 88
The DOJ deal was written by Amazon.

The DOJ should be investigated.
post #47 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hewsthat View Post

"The DOJ settlement would also go beyond e-books, prohibiting Apple from entering agreements with suppliers of "music, movies, television shows or other content..."

Whoa! This is reaching. And it seems a little extreme.

 

Its not reaching, DOJ accused Apple of price fixing (colluding with suppliers to raise prices), and so they don't want the same thing to happen for any other content that Apple sells.

"... prohibiting Apple from entering agreements with suppliers ... that are likely to increase the prices at which Apple's competitor retailers may sell that content."

post #48 of 88
I just got word through a friend of a friend that a petition just went up on the whitehouse site to put a halt to this.

Http://wh.gov/lr8uW

Not sure how much it will help but it can't hurt. Especially if it gets enough hits to go public quickly. And as I recall if it gets something like 100,000 by the end of the month the White House will issue a response (even if to say no)

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post #49 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruggedchess View Post

Not sure why Apple's attorneys did not take this approach....

Apple desperately needs a new legal crew. And, while they're at it, a new PR crew.

post #50 of 88
We still don't know what the new iBooks agreements will look like? Are publishers still free to set their own prices or will Amazon dictate the prices for all book publishers under the guise of "fairness"? I still think that publishers should set their own book prices. I hate the idea of one size fits all book pricing. Most older books should cost just a buck or less while newer trade editions should cost $20 or $30 or even more. That way we can build our libraries of eBooks to match the physical copies we have already purchased for a reasonable price and won't be so tempted to pirate everything. I see this DOJ settlement as a disaster for authors and publishers.
post #51 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post

Apple wanted ebook prices to rise,

No, the publishers wanted the prices to rise. And could have achieved that by refusing to renew contracts with Amazon etc unless they got terms they wanted. They could stop offering ebooks or do so in private sites with whatever pricing they wanted.

Apple was willing to let them control pricing with a limit on how high that could go, to protect customers as Apple felt an Ebook shouldn't be as high as a paper one (if only they could get that same logic working with movies and TV shows).

As for the whole same price thing. Everyone has those clauses in their deals to prevent anyone from undercutting them. It's not just Apple. But that wasn't really the issue that the DOJ was nagging on. It was the agency terms which gave publishers control and how having Apple in the arena gave the publishers a way to say no to Amazon and force publisher friendly contract terms they couldn't get before because Amazon was the only viable choice thanks to their predatory pricing tricks, exclusive deals etc

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post #52 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Please take the time to learn the difference between... there and their ... it will make you appear to be more intelligent and will make your posts seem more relevent. Just sayin' ...

 

The whole "their" , "there" , "they're" heterographs issue shows the sorry state of education. When I was in grade school in the 1960s this was pounded into me almost every day along with "to" , "two" , and "too" , another pet peeve of educated individuals when used incorrectly.

 

And yes, it DOES impact the impression people have of you and therefore your opinions too.

post #53 of 88

Apple should put some Fed members on its board. This will resolve all the issues. Bernanke is retiring from federal reserve. Put him in to become the financial Chief. He will still have more pull on the world than our current President. His buddies will still be running the game show!

 

Federal Reserve rules the World!


Edited by helicopterben - 8/2/13 at 10:20am
post #54 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Which is exactly what happened to AT&T when the DOJ broke them up. They were forced to lease their switch ports, their copper cable pairs, all their infrastructure to competitors at a wholesale price determined by the government. A "competitor" could open up shop on paper only and then resell AT&T services cheaper than AT&T was selling them. And they called it competition. Say you and I want to open a hamburger stand but we don't have the cash to do it. We simply go to the government and ask them to force McDonalds to lease us a spot in their restaurants, use their supplies and cookers, all at a steep discount. Now we can start selling hamburgers, inside a McDonalds, at a cheaper price than McDonalds.

This is what this proposed settlement is suggesting. Force Apple to let competitors advertise, for free, on iTunes, all on Apple's dime.

Unfortunately, they have it backwards.

When AT&T was broken up, they had all those requirements because they had previously been a regulated monopoly. There was no way a competitor could compete without access to their network.

In the Apple case, that's backwards, Amazon was the one with monopoly power and Apple was trying to break that monopoly. If the AT&T case were to be used as precedent, then AMAZON should have been forced to advertise for Apple, not vice versa.
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post #55 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

This case isn't over yet. Apple will not give up until they get a Supreme Court ruling. So whatever the DOJ and Amazon want doesn't matter right now.
Because there are going to be a few more years before what happens next will happen if it happens at all. The judge was paid off when they had there first court case with the DOJ. Hopefully the appeals judge will actually be a judge and not a puppet for the DOJ like the first one. She made up her mind before the case even started. Then when the case did go through and the DOJ actually proved NOTHING, she still ruled against Apple. I'm hoping the appeals court will actually listen to what Apple testified in the first trial and see that they did there business exactly like Amazon. Which means Amazon should be put on trial too.

Exactly. When the judge announces to the world that Apple's guilty before the trial even begins, there's no way that her decision is going to stand up on appeal.
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post #56 of 88
Not censoring links would lead to porn links.

Amazon is a competitor that would want to damage the Apple brand at all cost.
post #57 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

We still don't know what the new iBooks agreements will look like?

Yes we do. At least for the next five years. If the DOJ gets their way there won't be any deals. They will force iBooks to end for that time. Folks only choices will be Kindle, Nook etc.

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post #58 of 88
The bigger problem is the extension of the settlement beyond e-books to TV, music, etc. How the hell is that supposed to work? Must Apple run all contracts with all content providers everywhere past Google, Amazon, Samsung, MS, B&N, etc. first to see if they think it's fair? It's the single most anti-competitive, anti-business BS I have ever seen. It's as if the DOJ wants to put Apple out of business entirely!
post #59 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Please take the time to learn the difference between... there and their ... it will make you appear to be more intelligent and will make your posts seem more relevent. Just sayin' ...

 

Well, english is a second language to me, was born and raise in french and still work in french too. So there are some glitches. Thanks to pointing it out, so I can improve myself. Funny thing is when I wrote that word I hesitated and knew something was wrong, but could not figure out what.


Edited by herbapou - 8/2/13 at 11:04am
post #60 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

I feel like provocative today!

 

While at it, I think Apple should open itune stores on android, and windows mobile and sell content in those market... and an app store too! Why not open an itune store and an "app store" on amazon tablets. If they refuse, you take down there app on iOS ! Same goes for google. Openning stores in others ecosystems can be a double edge sword. Facetime and imessage should be ported to other platforms too.

 

Apple wont do it because it fears it will allow people trap in its ecosystem to flee elsewhere. Bunch of cowards!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is actually not a bad idea.

 

I've always thought that Apple should also make iWork and iLife available on all platforms. They would make a killing. (I am also confident that, once people have experienced Apple's software -- except for Mail and iCloud both of which should be either revamped or shut down -- they'll slowly start to migrate to Apple hardware: i.e., they'd be excellent gateway products).

Actually it is really bad idea. why are all the other platform having issue, due to the large fragmentation and support issue. Apple does not have these kinds of issue. they are open as a close system can be with our having all the down sides of a completely "open" system. Apple only has to worry about their product working and anyone who develops for them has very good set of guidelines to follow to ensure their product work.

 

If you think I am kidding go look at Itunes on a PC, there are loads of problems it works great for some people and others have all kinds of issues. It could be what hardware they are using which version of windows or some other program they have install that is causing the problem. Itunes on PC is perfect example of why apple should not do as suggest above.

post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by colibri View Post

The bigger problem is the extension of the settlement beyond e-books to TV, music, etc. How the hell is that supposed to work? Must Apple run all contracts with all content providers everywhere past Google, Amazon, Samsung, MS, B&N, etc. first to see if they think it's fair? It's the single most anti-competitive, anti-business BS I have ever seen. It's as if the DOJ wants to put Apple out of business entirely!

Exactly. And what about apps? Are they required to encourage their app vendors to write for Android and Windows Mobile, as well?
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post #62 of 88
edit
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/14/13 at 5:16am
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post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
Itunes on PC is perfect example of why apple should not do as suggest above.

From what I hear, Apple has done a less-than-satisfactory job of porting iTunes to PCs. A lot of folks I know complain about bloatware (I don't know this first-hand since I am not a PC user). In making my point, I am assuming that Apple will do a decent job of it.

 

Moreover, you appear to have missed the main point of my post, which really was that Apple's software -- done right -- would be the gateway for its hardware.

post #64 of 88
Just another example of government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. If Amazon and Barnes and Noble want the business and have a less expensive product then let them market it on their own. No difference in this and obamaphones. The payers for the service have to subsidize the moochers.
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post

Apple should stop censoring links period. They make enough money on HW margins and the 30% cut they're trying to take from others is pure greed.

Don't want to pay 30%? Release it for free. Don't be greedy.

What do you mean servers, maintenance, and credit card transactions cost money?
post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by colibri View Post

The bigger problem is the extension of the settlement beyond e-books to TV, music, etc. How the hell is that supposed to work? Must Apple run all contracts with all content providers everywhere past Google, Amazon, Samsung, MS, B&N, etc. first to see if they think it's fair? It's the single most anti-competitive, anti-business BS I have ever seen. It's as if the DOJ wants to put Apple out of business entirely!

Seems a bit expansive to me as well. Perhaps it's in the same vein as the recent Google settlement where the government wanted to preemptively deal with some other potential issues in other market areas rather than slogging thru everything again in the near future.
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post #67 of 88

If the DOJ really wanted to do something for the book-buying consumer, they would mandate that the ebook files had to be cross-compatible between devices.  Of course, that's not why they're doing this; they're doing this to advance the careers of lawyers at the DOJ. 
 

post #68 of 88
Whats up.. Doj is is now amazons crony ?
One way settelments to benifit others and hurt apple.
Thus is insane.
Apple should apeal...
If apple shlud put links so should every other book seller .. I including amazon .

And hiw did this even get to music deals?
Absoultly insane... Doj and itc are both in bed with someone out there..!
post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

BEST SOLUTION IS, APPLE SHOULD REJECT THE AMAZON APP :) :)

Except, that would likely hurt apple's bottom line.  How much money does apple make from restricting people from buying books through amazon?  I'm sure it's quite a bit, but compared to the money apple makes selling ipads and iphones, it's nothing.

 

Now consider a consumer's perspective.  Many consumers have invested quite a bit into buying amazon ebooks in the past.  Many of these same consumers are also apple customers.  If apple blocks amazon's apps, do you think these people would want to buy an ipad in the future?  They'd think about how apple screwed them over, leaving them with a $500+ device that they can't view THEIR content on.  Additionally people without a tablet but with amazon ebooks would seriously think twice before buying an ipad, and would look much more favorably on competing tablets.

 

Let's say there's ~1 million people in this category, and half of them would decide to not buy an ipad in the future.  The cost would then be $500*500,000*40%=$100,000,000 or so (assuming a 40% margin) over a couple year time period.  Definitely not huge, but not chump change.

 

But at the same time, apple is making money on ebooks from the 500,000 or so people that now decided to buy their ebooks from apple instead of amazon (so they can use apple devices).  Lets assume each one would buy 10 books over the same time period... this would yield $15*10*500,000*30%=$22,500,000.  Sounds like apple would make the right decision in attempting to screw amazon over like this... I'm sure apple's accountants would agree.

 

Sure, this is an overly simplistic model, as I'm guessing on margins, the number of people, number of ebooks purchased and percent that would stay/leave apple, but, this analysis would be the exact same regardless of how many people are involved.  obviously if the percentage of people affected was different, the number of people would vary, but even if only 10% defected, that would mean $50,000,000 in lost ipad profits, and a gain of ~$40,000,000 profit in ebook sales.  That still wouldn't make it worthwhile.  That still means a loss of $10,000,000 in profits by trying to stick it to amazon.

 

Yeah, acting vengeful might sound great when you're an angry apple zealot, but apple doesn't give a shit what you think, all they care about is making the most money they can.

 

Phil

post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

Well, english is a second language to me, was born and raise in french and still work in french too. So there are some glitches. Thanks to pointing it out, so I can improve myself. Funny thing is when I wrote that word I hesitated and knew something was wrong, but could not figure out what.

 

Not a problem. That happens to me quite often. I'll use a phrase or a word that I think is correct but, for some reason, just feels wrong ... what to do? ... Sometimes we should go with our "gut feeling" ... and keep our fingers crossed. Anyway, cheers and have a great day. ...btw, I'll bet your English is a lot better than my French.
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post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Please take the time to learn the difference between... there and their ... it will make you appear to be more intelligent and will make your posts seem more relevent. Just sayin' ...

Well, english is a second language to me, was born and raise in french and still work in french too. So there are some glitches. Thanks to pointing it out, so I can improve myself. Funny thing is when I wrote that word I hesitated and knew something was wrong, but could not figure out what.


Keep cool herbapou. English is a foreign language to most Americans ;-)

post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

Whats up.. Doj is is now amazons crony ?
One way settelments to benifit others and hurt apple.
Thus is insane.
Apple should apeal... !

They already did.

However, it's worth nothing that there's a major misunderstanding in this thread. The requirement being proposed is what the DOJ asked for. The court has not ordered it.
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post #73 of 88

The DOJ settlement would also go beyond e-books, prohibiting Apple from entering agreements with suppliers of "music, movies, television shows or other content that are likely to increase the prices at which Apple's competitor retailers may sell that content."

 

The DOJ's settlement proposal didn't say the above, Apple's response did. 

 

I am not in favor of restricting "music, movies, television shows or other content" deals with regards to this settlement.  It can also be debated whether the DOJ proposal includes it, but I do find it wrong to imply that the DOJ included that statement in their settlement proposal.  

post #74 of 88
Corrupt and anticompetitive offer from a corrupt administration. We all know that Jeff Bezos, Eric Schmidt and Google employees helped get this administration elected. This is just payback time. it's so obvious why the Obama administration hates Apple. Amazon and Google give their products away and all their constituents benefit from it. Amazon is the worst. It is just like a big and controlling government. It is rapidly taking over industry after industry and selling everything at cost. Amazon makes no money and will continue to make no money. They are loved by the Obama administration because they give everything away at cost or below cost. It is crowding out all other businesses like Apple who want to make a profit. I don't believe Amazon will ever make money....it is just an arm of government taking over every industry and giving the products away at the detriment of every other business. In the short run, it is great for consumers and that's whisper this administration is so friendly to them. In the long term, it is killing competition with predatory pricing. The DOJ will never investigate them for this because Obamas followers all benefit.
post #75 of 88
Apple should immediately drop the price of the limited range of iBooks involved in this case in the US to $1.99.

Then demand Amazon etc match them as per the DoJ agreements.

It would only cost a few Billion and drive sales of iOS devices.

Strangle this rotten abuse of justice at the roots.
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post #76 of 88

In a price war between Amazon and Apple, Apple will win - Amazon is a money losing operation.

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post #77 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

In a price war between Amazon and Apple, Apple will win - Amazon is a money losing operation.

Sort of.

Amazon is losing money, but they do have positive cash flow. Still, the share price is vastly inflated regardless of which multiple you choose.

They just announced that they're hiring thousands of employees - which will reduce their margins even more. Should make my AMZN puts perform nicely.
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post #78 of 88
I can't believe the replies in this thread. People would be furious if Microsoft disallowed iTunes on Windiows and only allowed content purchased through their own media store. Amazon, BN and other ebook resellers ought to be allowed to put their own stores back into their apps. It is more convenient for those of us using those apps and costs Apple nothing while generating bad will, bad press and legal judgements.

Apple is not required to put Amazon or any other links into their iBook store. They are being requested to simply compete and allow everyone else to do what they do which is hit a button and go to a store to buy a book within their respective apps.

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post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I can't believe the replies in this thread. People would be furious if Microsoft disallowed iTunes on Windiows and only allowed content purchased through their own media store. Amazon, BN and other ebook resellers ought to be allowed to put their own stores back into their apps. It is more convenient for those of us using those apps and costs Apple nothing while generating bad will, bad press and legal judgements.

Apple is not required to put Amazon or any other links into their iBook store. They are being requested to simply compete and allow everyone else to do what they do which is hit a button and go to a store to buy a book within their respective apps.

Apple does not have a monopoly in cell phones. It doesn't even have a majority. So if you don't want iBookstore or iTunes, you're free to try your luck with Android.
post #80 of 88
The only people thinks this is a good idea are DOJ and Android/Amazon fanbois. DOJ is overreaching into Apple's business models. What then after 2-yrs? Are they studying the effects and then go after Amazon? This is one of the silliest lawsuit in tech in recent years.
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