or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung co-CEO pushes Tizen OS as more than a 'simple alternative for Android'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung co-CEO pushes Tizen OS as more than a 'simple alternative for Android' - Page 2

post #41 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by aross99 View Post

Is Tizen going to run Android Apps? If not, then aren't they going to face an uphill battle with developers who don't want to port their applications to a new OS? Without the core apps, who is going to buy these phones?

I agree that the more ecosystems the better for Apple, and I would love to see Samsung dump Android, but it seems like the lack of apps would be a huge issue for them...

 

Alien Dalvik and other ports of the Dalvik VM enables most Android apps to run on Meego, Maemo, BlackBerry OS 10, iOS (yes, you can run Android apps on Apple devices if you're jailbroken and install Alien Dalvik), etc...  So running Android apps on Tizen shouldn't be a problem...

post #42 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post

Lets face it, those particular round icons aren't great. But is [sic] iOS shipped with round....

Let's face it: it won't.

post #43 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

This brings me to apps, do Android apps work on that Samsung OS?

 

Yes they seem  to have a utility called Polaris App Player,  that helps you run Android apps. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR932y5TtcA

post #44 of 171

Please proceed, co-CEO.

post #45 of 171

For an article all about "Tizen" you might want to spend a paragraph explaining what Tizen actually is, how it works, what it's based on etc. Is it Unix? Is it an Android clone?  Does it run Android apps?  

 

If Samsung is smart, Tizen should be a bridge from Android, not an alternative.  If a Tizen phone cannot at least initially run Android apps for instance it will never take off at all. 

post #46 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

 

Alien Dalvik and other ports of the Dalvik VM enables most Android apps to run on Meego, Maemo, BlackBerry OS 10, iOS (yes, you can run Android apps on Apple devices if you're jailbroken and install Alien Dalvik), etc...  So running Android apps on Tizen shouldn't be a problem...

 

There's "technically feasible" and there is "runs apps."  They aren't the same thing at all.  

 

If Tizen cannot at least initially, seamlessly run all Android apps, it won't ever be successful.  If it can do that, and then at the same time have a better UI than the Android mess, it will run Android into the ground. 

post #47 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Looks different, kinda nice. Gotta respect hand it to Samsung for coming up with this. But whatever happened to their other OS, Bada?

 

Tizen is the flavor of the month OS, or maybe they realized that Android cost them $1B in legal cost and they could have just written something from scratch for less.

post #48 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Android users already bitch about how long it takes for apps to be ported to Google Play (e.g. BBC iPlayer).  

 

I think this would be a colossally bad move on the part of Samsung, and I support it 100%.  lol.gif

Agreed. The beginning of the end for Samsung's dominance of the crap-phone market. Go for it Samsung! 

post #49 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

There's "technically feasible" and there is "runs apps."  They aren't the same thing at all.  

If Tizen cannot at least initially, seamlessly run all Android apps, it won't ever be successful.  If it can do that, and then at the same time have a better UI than the Android mess, it will run Android into the ground. 

Android doesn't even run all Android apps seamlessly. 1smile.gif
post #50 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

There's "technically feasible" and there is "runs apps."  They aren't the same thing at all.  

 

If Tizen cannot at least initially, seamlessly run all Android apps, it won't ever be successful.  If it can do that, and then at the same time have a better UI than the Android mess, it will run Android into the ground. 

 

I wonder if they're naive enough to think they can run on the popularity of their Galaxy phones?

post #51 of 171

There is a video showing Tizen running on a prototype hardware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7cPEQpxsNE

 

Looks very slow and boring to me.

post #52 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Let's face it: it won't.

I agree. It won't.
post #53 of 171

Third party apps will need to be written.  Maybe they are in talks with Microsoft for a lead on all the developers anxious to develop for their new platform.  /s
 

post #54 of 171

A little more information on what Tizen is composed of (dating back to Maemo in 2005):

 

File:Mer and mobile operating systems.svg

post #55 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

Samsung building an Eco System. Lets see now Microsoft tried, with limited amount of success. Blackberry did with not much success, oh and all these companies have a history of building software systems, now think again. Yes ?

So what's the solution to that problem? Should they just stop trying? All go with Android?
post #56 of 171
"These changes help to differentiate Samsung smartphones from other Android phones on the market%u2026" and look more like an iPhone.
post #57 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Looks different, kinda nice. Gotta respect hand it to Samsung for coming up with this. But whatever happened to their other OS, Bada?


Bada got folded into the Tizen effort - ie dropped!.  Tizen will run existing Bada apps as well as Android apps.

 

My phone runs Bada.  It is actually a very nice and capable OS.

post #58 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

2014 is the year Google and Samsung go to war with each other. Their key interests and goals are in complete conflict

For Google, their relationship with their main distribution arm is going to breakdown. Likely via Samsung forking Android or a substantial re-balancing of the key business terms (e.g. rev share on search advertising). It is a matter of when. Poof - 50% of Google's mobile business is at risk

For Samsung, Google is aggressively entering the hardware space - Moto X, Nexus 7. In particular, the Nexus 7 ensures that all OEMs including Samsung have zero chance of ever making any material profits in the tablet space. Google's goal is $0 hardware. It is in complete conflict with its OEM partners

I'm going to enjoy this shi* show over the next 18 months. The net net is it will benefit Apple

Extending this out to the full personal device landscape...

 

Apple  - Sell great hardware for $$ with nearly free great software, as a platform for an immersive ecosystem... eventually invert the model and make the ecosystem the primary profit source.

 

Samsung - Sell Hardware for $$, with whatever SW seems to sell it best, add ecosystem(s) because people want it, but focus on building HW and selling it at maximum margin

 

Amazon - Sell hardware/SW at a loss, but make device the greatest book buying/reading unit, integrated into to the largest shopping center in the world, where you own the cash registers and fulfillment systems of every shop inside.

 

Google/Moto - Sell hardware at negative margins, free OS, to drive eyeballs to adsense sites, and google services (first couple years are free, then either killed or monetized).

 

Nokia/MS - Oh, how the mighty have fallen...  how to keep MS Office and Xbox relevant in a post email/document/general-spreadsheet/GameSW world.

 

Blackberry - The not so mighty have fallen faster... but have a comets tail of touch typist loyalists

 

Sony/Nintendo - See MS/Blackberry... 

 

Asus/HP/DELL/Lenovo - 'Peak PC' has passed.  Servers are commodities. Cloud Data Centers will be like Utilities, small/medium/large businesses won't buy their own... they'll just 'buy it off the grid'  

 

That is your players list.  Anyone else will be selling pods/phones/pads that will effectively be fodder for carrier/carrier-resellers/bigbox  stock racks.

 

Odds are Blackberry and Nokia/MS will eventually wither and die...  and/or Google will see something new to do, and sell off Moto.    I don't see more than 4 players in the 'device ecosystem' environment, and Apple and Amazon have solid ecosystems, and Samsung is the megolith in device manufacturing

 

The key thing here is that Software has evolved to 'zero' value to the consumer. That kills Blackberry/MS-Nok, and in effect, Google/Android.   People (the 6.1Billion who don't know or care about 'Visual Basic' 'JIT', or 'Dalvik vs ObjC')  buy phones and ipads and tablets and computers... to DO stuff.  They don't buy it to 'run Word' or 'Jelly Bean"

 

In the end... it will be about ecosystems and integration into lives/businesses/family  (on the same device).   We want a device that is Personal Me, Daddy/Mommy Me, Corporate Me, my Private business me, Game Player Me, Carlos Danger Me, Mother's Son/Daughter Me, and 'oh, child/friend/mother wants to borrow my device me.'   

 

The wildcard (in many ways) is Amazon.   They are all about free cash flow (Sell Stuff Faster, pay for it slower), which while not 'profit,' it is 'money to invest in making money'   They are 'When people scream GOLD Rush... Get into the Shovel Selling Business... buy more shovels now, pay for them later, after they are sold, and figure out a way to sell them with zero ('or negative') overhead!" 

post #59 of 171

Shockingly, these icons actually look good. Very clean, refined, and consistent. Why are Samsung's touchwiz icons such shit in comparison? 

 

As for Tizen, I hope to God they have the hubris and idiocy to do this. It would screw Google, as well as themselves over in one blow. 

post #60 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post

+1

Lets face it, those particular round icons aren't great. But is iOS shipped with round, which I could see, would opinions be the same? Apple OSs already have lots of round...

I seem to remember some criticism of the ugly round icons on the iPod nano, so I guess the answer is: yes, their stupidity is more than it just their company of origin.

Seriously, this looks like a terrible copy of a dated version of iOS. It's home screen is a grid of icons, the gestures listed are the same, and its home button is even a rectangle. I don't see how this gels with all the Samsung shills/fandroids screaming that the icon grid in iOS links dated and that the icon grid in the apple vs. Samsung trial wasn't a fair comparison because it isn't the home screen in android.
post #61 of 171
Motorola ditched Motoblur for stock Android? But but but Motorola is an independently operated company! /s

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #62 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Shockingly, these icons actually look good. Very clean, refined, and consistent. Why are Samsung's touchwiz icons such shit in comparison? 

 

As for Tizen, I hope to God they have the hubris and idiocy to do this. It would screw Google, as well as themselves over in one blow. 

The icons look to have evolved from MeeGo

 

nokian9meego.jpg

post #63 of 171

Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

Samsung building an Eco System. Lets see now Microsoft tried, with limited amount of success. Blackberry did with not much success, oh and all these companies have a history of building software systems, now think again. Yes ?


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post


So what's the solution to that problem? Should they just stop trying? All go with Android?

 

 

If anyone can take a shot at the industry leaders today with a new Eco System, its by doing something in a way that's radically new and fresh , at the same time have a better User Experience than the rest. 

 

In short anything that's not leaps ahead than the existing ones are going to have a tough time and will eventually meet its demise.

 

PS: I notice you say , all go with Android ! Lol tell's me your one of those Android users waiting to jump the Android ship :D


Edited by nikilok - 8/6/13 at 9:06am
post #64 of 171
Credit where due: vinyl IS the next big thing in digital music!
post #65 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Samsung:
Let's throw more crap at the wall to see what sticks.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Samsung wanting to build something they can cram all the crapware (and worse) that they want into.

 

I figure that sure, they're able to do that in Android now, but Android can be jailbroken (and usually is done precisely to get rid of the crapware). This both offers an 'out' for those who hate crapware, and a means to control just how egregious Samsung can get about it.

 

Now with their own mobile OS, Samsung can not only impose their own crapware that can be practically un-removeable, but they can also charge carriers and app-makers for the dubious privilege of installing even more crapware... and I bet the bootloader will brick if you so much as think of jailbreaking or (gasp!) installing your favorite Android mod onto the phone.

post #66 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

The icons look to have evolved from MeeGo

 

Good call - the underlying OS may have its own ancestry, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada

 

"On 25 February 2013, Samsung announced that it will stop developing Bada, moving development to Tizen instead"

post #67 of 171

I think this is the best move Samsung could probably make. I encourage them 100%. I need my AAPL stock to rise.

post #68 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinisto View Post

 

Good call - the underlying OS may have its own ancestry, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada

 

"On 25 February 2013, Samsung announced that it will stop developing Bada, moving development to Tizen instead"

That's what I pointed out above in the chart.

 

The evolution from Maemo, Moblin, MeeGo, LiMo and Baba, all to become Tizen.

post #69 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinisto View Post

and I bet the bootloader will brick if you so much as think of jailbreaking or (gasp!) installing your favorite Android mod onto the phone.

 

If there were any such known techniques Apple would have done that to prevent iOS jail breaks by now..

Perhaps Samsung's not planning on abandoning Android, they just want a saftey card so Google doesn't play hankie panky with them :)

post #70 of 171

I don't think there is room for a 3rd (or 4th if you count Microsoft) ecosystem, we're already seeing the Ubuntu phone struggling with getting off the ground. Besides it will cause a lot of confusion here at AI, will the android haters become Tizen haters or will the camp be split. AI is already covering way too much Google/Android news now we're going to have pages of Tizen news as well, sheesh.

 

My guess is they may limit it to low end semi-smartphones and keep android for the high end.

post #71 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

That's what I pointed out above in the chart.

 

The evolution from Maemo, Moblin, MeeGo, LiMo and Baba, all to become Tizen.

 

Right sounds very promising, the core of Tizen are a bunch of Scrapped out OS !

 

Hmmm now lets see how that compares to the competition iOS foundation , Unix / Mac OS X !

 

I think Tizen should be shown the window already :D

post #72 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

That is your players list. 

 

It's demonstrably difficult to predict the long term future of phone makers, though.

 

Eight years ago, who could have predicted the sharp fall of Nokia, Blackberry and WinMo?  Or that HTC, who used to be the ODM for many of the world's phones, would go out on their own, to rise and then stumble.

-

 

One solid fact that we have learned from smartphone history, is that once any player gets too held back by legacy support (hardware and/or software and/or UI), then they become extremely vulnerable in the face of the next disruptive technology or fad.

 

That's why the big changes always seem to come from newcomers.

 

Therefore, it would not be too surprising if a new player arose in the next decade, say in China, and threw another big wrench into the works.  Not predicting it, but anything is possible.

 

We'll have to come back to this thread in 2023 and review what's happened :)

post #73 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

 

I wonder if they're naive enough to think they can run on the popularity of their Galaxy phones?

I think they are in a better position than many give them credit for.  I don't like them at all, but I believe this is a major blow to google.  They loyalty to Android is from Geeks. The majority of people buying Samsung phones know they are buying a S4 or whatever.  Samsung has already replaced many of the new Android features with their own versions that they are pushing as exclusives to them.  Android will take a big drop next year and because this is not a fork, the pundits will not be able to try to attribute their sales to Google like they have with Amazon's.

post #74 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

If Samsung is smart, Tizen should be a bridge from Android, not an alternative.  If a Tizen phone cannot at least initially run Android apps for instance it will never take off at all. 

Shhhh.....🙊

post #75 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

 

Right sounds very promising, the core of Tizen are a bunch of Scrapped out OS !

 

Hmmm now lets see how that compares to the competition iOS foundation , Unix / Mac OS X !

 

I think Tizen should be shown the window already :D


Tizen has a Linux kernel, iOS has a Unix kernel.

post #76 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Eight years ago, who could have predicted the sharp fall of Nokia, Blackberry and WinMo?  

6 years and 7 months ago, many of us did....

post #77 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

It's demonstrably difficult to predict the long term future of phone makers, though.

 

Eight years ago, who could have predicted the sharp fall of Nokia, Blackberry and WinMo?  Or that HTC, who used to be the ODM for many of the world's phones, would go out on their own, to rise and then stumble.

-

 

One solid fact that we have learned from smartphone history, is that once any player gets too held back by legacy support (hardware and/or software and/or UI), then they become extremely vulnerable in the face of the next disruptive technology or fad.

 

That's why the big changes always seem to come from newcomers.

 

Therefore, it would not be too surprising if a new player arose in the next decade, say in China, and threw another big wrench into the works.  Not predicting it, but anything is possible.

 

We'll have to come back to this thread in 2023 and review what's happened :)

 

An OS for a mobile device with desktop class capabilities is architectured to evolve in so many different directions.

Take a look at the first Mac OS and what its evolved into today on the desktop.

And notice how it was branched out for mobile computing.

Its the foundation that Apple has that will let it evolve in a beautiful manner.

I wont be surprised if the future of iOS was streaming its UI directly to your brain, to interact with just your thoughts :P

post #78 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

One solid fact that we have learned from smartphone history, is that once any player gets too held back by legacy support (hardware and/or software and/or UI), then they become extremely vulnerable in the face of the next disruptive technology or fad.

That's why the big changes always seem to come from newcomers.

Therefore, it would not be too surprising if a new player arose in the next decade, say in China, and threw another big wrench into the works.  Not predicting it, but anything is possible.

In general, sure, anything is possible. But I don't see any other hardware company having the same finesse in creating software, and the focus on UE, other than Apple. Reverse hardware and software; I still don't see anyone other than Apple.

PS tedious thing, to delete all the html stuff from your posts when quoting. Do you have the same issue when quoting someone else?
"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
Reply
"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
Reply
post #79 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


Tizen has a Linux kernel, iOS has a Unix kernel.

 

Besides the Linux Kernel, Tizen's carrying over baggage code / utility from Maemo, Moblin, MeeGo, LiMo and Bada.

That's the problem! Tizen's slow as sh*t, watch it here in action if you want proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7cPEQpxsNE

 

Beta or not, the very fundamentals of the OS seems blocky and unfinished.


Edited by nikilok - 8/6/13 at 9:57am
post #80 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

PS tedious thing, to delete all the html stuff from your posts when quoting. Do you have the same issue when quoting someone else?

 

Try clearing your cache.  I saw the editor stuck sometimes on HTML for the past few days until I did so.  I think something changed.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Samsung co-CEO pushes Tizen OS as more than a 'simple alternative for Android'
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung co-CEO pushes Tizen OS as more than a 'simple alternative for Android'