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Apple, Inc. gets its fingerprints on advanced touch sensor, appears difficult for Android to copy - Page 5

post #161 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

[snip]


The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.


Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.


The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.

exactly. passwords are the #1 pain in the butt in the entire consumer digital world. a genuine Just Works solution to that would be a true breakthrough and huge market success.

as to all the "experts" declaring it won't work because [fill in blank], what they are really saying is they couldn't come up with a solution, so no one else can either. well, we'll see about that ...

Great posts!

If it is done right, it will give us such freedom and convenience that we'll never look back -- like replacing the hand crank on the automobile with the electric starter. (Yeah, I've cranked a few in my time -- a lot more difficult in a cold environment than removing a glove to use a touch screen).

I suspect Apple thinks they can do it -- having spent almost $400 million for the opportunity.

And, you can be sure Apple will do it right!
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post #162 of 210
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

It if can pull off a functional fingerprint scanner, it stands to increase its lead by standing out in an otherwise poorly differentiated market.

 

It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.

 

And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor.  The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:

 

iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.

iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.

 

Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy.  And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point.  Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.

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post #163 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

So Apple's assembly of one of it's Mac models here in the US would be the same kind of stunt then.

Not if Texas cedes from the union, like they keep promising to. Then it would be different.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #164 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.

 

And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor.  The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:

 

iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.

iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.

 

Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy.  And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point.  Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.

 

Yup.

 

Apple is going completely turn the industry upside-down when the 5C and 5S come.

 

The 5C will be as good as $600+ Androids for a fraction of the cost.

 

The 5S will be leaps and bounds better for the same price we've always paid.

 

Combine that with iOS which consumers are digging more than iOS 6, and we've got a recipe for a record breaking year.

post #165 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The Moto X is being built in Texas as a stunt. The reason why stuff is built in China is because it has tool and die expertise capable of setting up and reconfiguring a high production factory in days. The US couldn't do that in a year. US labor would add some cost, but not as much as you might think. The problem is the factories and manufacturing skills that America hasn't cultivated since the 60s.

 

This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA. 

 

He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium."   It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
 
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies".  There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
 
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most.  Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
 
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
 
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
 
As this blog points out:

 

Quote:

"The answer is simple – Cook is talking baloney. It ain’t true. 
 
This is not about skilled tool and die markers, this is about having 8000 workers who are willing to roll out of bed, take a cup of tea and a biscuit, and jump onto a 12 hour shift to adapt to a last minute design change Apple mandates. 
 
It’s about dealing with a country whose factories and workers are subsidized to the hilt by the Chinese government and by the substandard conditions these workers toil under. 
 
It’s about having the Chinese government invest capital so Apple doesn’t have to."

 

The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.

 

post #166 of 210

With the security of personal information, perhaps especially mobile device personal information becoming more and more recognized as critical, this sort of security technology including as it does the specificity inherent in biometry alongside the convenience of a touch sensor, makes total sense. A compelling implementation will be welcomed as issues such as San Francisco's and NYC's "Apple Picking" crimes keep arising.

post #167 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Not if Texas cedes from the union, like they keep promising to. Then it would be different.

So true. What's "Designed in Cupertino, made in Tejas" in Spanish?

post #168 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen View Post

That's the worry.  Crooks will not only grab your iphone but will also cut off your fingers or hand too.

Smartphone thefts are usually crimes of opportunity (you left you iPhone behind in a public place or in your car). Amputations are not.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #169 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

So true. What's "Designed in Cupertino, made in Tejas" in Spanish?

No lo sé

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #170 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Smartphone thefts are usually crimes of opportunity (you left you iPhone behind in a public place or in your car). Amputations are not.

 

 

Or like when Eddie Stark in 'Til Death went to the sleep clinic:

 

Eddie: "This isn't the place where they cut you up and harvest your organs, is it?"

 

Nurse: (Giggling) "Oh, no! That guy got fired."

post #171 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

It if can pull off a functional fingerprint scanner, it stands to increase its lead by standing out in an otherwise poorly differentiated market.

It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.

And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor.  The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:

iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.

Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy.  And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point.  Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.

Oh... I really like that approach!
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post #172 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

 

Did you know Google themselves are ditching NFC chips in there handsets ? You dont need NFC coz you already have Bluetooth, BLE as replacement tech.

And more importantly the wallet feature can be done with existing wireless technologies.

Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


So you haven't used it once and you say it sucks?

NFC is a fad. Companies need to buy special equipment to offer it. Passbook uses the scanners they have already. All they need to do is develop for it.

Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless.  Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

You can dismiss Passbook, but it's actually being used and it's supported by a lot of major companies. And its getting increasing more sophisticated using stuff that works, rather than blowing out a lot of expensive infrastructure that doesn't. 

so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

 

I'm not claiming NFC is successful.  But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.  

Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact.  Particularly when they aren't.


Edited by Andysol - 8/7/13 at 2:03pm

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post #173 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.

And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor.  The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:

iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.

Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy.  And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point.  Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.

You're putting way to much stock in a fingerprint scanner. There's way too many things that can go with your finger that will render it unreadable.
post #174 of 210
I have a Lenovo laptop that I got 6 years ago and it has a nice fingerprint sensor in it. It works great. It is mainly used for just logging in and then to open password manager. You just slide your finger along it.

I think Apple's will work very well and it should be quite handy
post #175 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

There's just so many things that can render a fingerprint unreadable. A cut, a burn, a bruise, dirt, etc would probably prevent this from working.

then you just revert to the current way of entering pw's like you do now. so?

post #176 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

This is false.  In the average large, North American city there are many people who's fingerprints are so similar as to come up as false positives on those scans you see on shows like CSI.  Also, when they do that stuff in real life, it's rarely a "100% positive or not" match like they show on TV.  Sometimes multiple matches come up for different individuals, and it's a matter of interpretation as to what a "match" actually is or which is the closest match.  

 

In practice, this is irrelevant in court, because if there are only three people in the city that match, most of the time the other two won't be on the database (because they aren't criminals), and therefore there will only be one match.  Statistically however, in any given city there are others that *would* have matched, if every single citizen was fingerprinted and on the fingerprint database.  Also, in the very rare case of multiple positive matches amongst the criminal population during an active investigation, they are most likely separated spatially, temporally, or by some other factor like age, gender etc. 

 

If there is ever a day when 100% of the population is on a fingerprint database, as opposed to whatever it is now (20%?), it will be interesting to see how fingerprint scanners perform.  

 

There is also the factor that the analysis is generally done on a set number of points that match up, perhaps if the number of points needed for a match are increased, then accuracy also increases and multiple hits would go down, but then a great deal of criminals would be let off the hook on the low end because this would turn a lot of the fingerprint evidence that's now accepted as a "match" into only a partial match. 

 

All this may be true, but what are the odds of some nefarious person:

 

     A) Having access to your phone, and:

 

     2) Having fingerprints similar enough to yours to be mistaken for them?

 

If that probability is less than somebody:

 

     1) Having your Debit/Credit card, and:

 

     II) Guessing your PIN number,

 

then it's an improvement, because we all live with that every day. I say the first probability is lower, but I'm open to figures if you've got them.

post #177 of 210

Then you come to find out that as your sensor wears out, it just lets anyone in who swipes their finger.  1wink.gif

post #178 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantzn View Post

Then you come to find out that as your sensor wears out, it just lets anyone in who swipes their finger.  1wink.gif


When the sensor wears out, it simply won't work, I don't think it even has moving parts, you think when it "wears out" there is some sort of texture on there that will "smooth" out, and so rendering it blind? If its blind, then the scanned data simply won't match the stored data. How the phone handles a broken sensor I have no clue, probably password login.

post #179 of 210

For all those that are so worried about the fingerprint scanner....fear not.

 

Seems that we don't have any real confirmation yet that there will be one other than rumors.

post #180 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Seems that we don't have any real confirmation yet that there will be one other than rumors.

Well, the files in iOS itself.

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post #181 of 210
Your masters will be pleased.
post #182 of 210
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Originally Posted by MatsSvensson View Post

Your masters will be pleased.

I smell conspiracy theory.

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post #183 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Oh... I really like that approach!

One nice side-effect of an iPhone with biometric scanner... No more in-app purchases by the kids!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #184 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

They keep forgetting the Atrix was famous for its failing sensors or the fact Motorola stopped putting them in all subsequent phone models. Being first to market with an idea is meaningless if it doesn't work.

 

Didn't the Atrix use an Authentec sensor?

 

(Most of the failures I read about on the net so far, seem to be associated with installing a new ROM and not reseting the sensor code properly.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.

 

I still haven't heard what is supposed to be unique with whatever Apple might use them for.  Capacitive/RF sensors have been around for well over a decade, and are available from quite a few sensor manufacturers.

 

As for a new idea, I could see perhaps embedding the sensor in the lower part of the display or something... but the SDK leaks indicate it being in the Home button, which seems odd.  Too small for full finger recognition, and swiping seems a dangerous action on a pushbutton.  Unless perhaps they change the button shape.

post #185 of 210
Wouldn't LiquidMetal's water and oil resistive qualities solve the indicated issues with fingerprint sensors, making them much longer lasting?
post #186 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElBasuro View Post

Wouldn't LiquidMetal's water and oil resistive qualities solve the indicated issues with fingerprint sensors, making them much longer lasting?

 

A capacitive sensor is basically a computer chip open on top with no real lid -- just a few micron thick electrically transparent protective layer put on top.

 

This super thin layer is subject to swiping wear, to chemical attack from sweat, accidental knocks, grease buildup... and perhaps worst of... allowing ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge) to pass and destroy the chip underneath.  

 

Nevertheless, modern sensors list at least a million swipe life.  If even half true, then you should be able to swipe a hundred times a day for at least a decade.

 

As for LiquidMetal, I can't think of a use for it here.  Unless you had a sensor with an RF transmitter ring around it, and you wanted it for the ring.  Remember, LM is metallic and conducts electricity.

 

Where were you thinking it might useful?


Edited by KDarling - 8/8/13 at 11:12am
post #187 of 210
A little off but apple could have 3 ways in iPhone 6 to unlock, a already out face recognition (hopefully improved), voice recognition (by Siri "speak to me") or figure print sensing, a combination would be best for it.
post #188 of 210
Daniel, Excellent, well researched, informative article.
post #189 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


So Apple's assembly of one of it's Mac models here in the US would be the same kind of stunt then.

 

Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago. 

 

I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway). 

 

Google has smart engineers, but the the charlatans running the company are pretty shameless in their hypocrisy and boldface bullshitting lies. 

post #190 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Yes sir it is certainly supported. You just haven't kept up, no biggie.

 

Bluetooth LE is a hardware feature.

 

The latest Android 4.3 may have been "announced" two weeks ago, but that doesn't suddenly make millions of NFC-based devices BLE compatible.

 

Also, do you have Android 4.3 on your phone or are you just gobbling bullshit? 

 

Google says that as of 9 days ago, nobody has Android 4.3, and that ~58% of its users are on something older than its year old "Jelly Bean"

 

The excrement between your teeth is always nauseating to behold GG. 

post #191 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Bluetooth LE is a hardware feature.

The latest Android 4.3 may have been "announced" two weeks ago, but that doesn't suddenly make millions of NFC-based devices BLE compatible.

Also, do you have Android 4.3 on your phone or are you just gobbling bullshit? 

Google says that as of 9 days ago, nobody has Android 4.3, and that ~58% of its users are on something older than its year old "Jelly Bean"

The excrement between your teeth is always nauseating to behold GG. 

No I have Android 4.3 on my Nexus 7 purchased last year. Downloaded automatically several days ago, with the bonus of a very noticeable improvement in battery life too. Facts will do just fine sir.

Anyway, the devices already using the Android 4.3x update are the Nexus 4, 2012 Nexus 7, 2013 Nexus 7, Google Play edition Samsung Galaxy S 4 and HTC One.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/14/13 at 4:53am
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post #192 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA. 

 

He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium."   It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
 
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies".  There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
 
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most.  Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
 
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
 
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
 
As this blog points out:

 

The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.

 

 

KD you never cease to amaze with your Googling skills. But as you must be aware, despite finding some blog rant with less credibility than even yourself, manufacturing chips (automated photography) and cars (AYEFKM?) have nothing to do with assembling millions of smartphones rapidly in batches over a few weeks.

post #193 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless.  Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.

 

I'm not claiming NFC is successful.  But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.  

Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact.  Particularly when they aren't.

 

Which one is Samsung copying? 

 

hint: not NFC / Google Wallet. There, saved you from Googling by citing multimillion dollar "crisis of design" market research of the #2.

post #194 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago. 

I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway). 

Google has smart engineers, but the the charlatans running the company are pretty shameless in their hypocrisy and boldface bullshitting lies. 

A few days ago it looked like you'd had a change of heart and decided to dispose of most of the hyperbole in your posts. Perhaps someone else had written those for you and simply left that impression, dunno.

By the way, where did you get Google fired "~7k high value engineers"? Is that what Google said or it just a little more hyperbole?
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/9/13 at 12:10pm
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post #195 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago. 

 

I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway). 

 

 

Is the implication that unlike the Mac Pro, the Moto X will be a high-volume product?

post #196 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus),

 

It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) 

 

Motorola did not fire 7K "high value engineers", nor were most job "losses" even in the US.  

 

Motorola sold assembly plants in Taiwan and Brazil to another company (Flextronics), and those thousands of overseas assembly workers were transferred on paper from Motorola to Flextronics.

 

According to Moto, that transfer accounted for the overwhelming majority of Motorola "job losses" the past quarter.

post #197 of 210
Apple is still a very innovative company; even without Steve Jobs. It's in their DNA not to release junk but to make quality products and give its customers a pleasant total user experience. This is the difference between them and everyone else; especially Samsung. The Samsung GS4 has a bunch of useless gimmicks, like the look away feature while viewing video and waving your hand over the device to initiate a function. They are trying to be different, but it's hard when your not blessed with creativity. Apple's ecosystem is superior to anything Android, Windows, or Blackberry can muster up. Apple will lead the mobile industry for a long time until they invent something else that disrupts the market.
post #198 of 210

"It may be hard to believe now, but in 2007 Microsoft's definition of a "Windows Mobile Smartphone" meant that it didn't have a touchscreen."

 

DED, you do yourself no favours by trying to suggest that, prior to the iphone, all phones had little passive screens and number pads (incidentally, a ridiculous claim made by Apple's legal team).

 

Microsoft had two versions of windows mobile, one optimised for touch screens and one optimised for phones without touch screen phones.

 

Your assessment of resistive screens would suggest that you have never used one, either that or you are engaged in revisionism. Resistive and capacitive screens each have their own merits. The former is however more accurate than the later and the suggestion that you have to thump the screen or (always) have to use a stylus is a gross representation of the truth. Prior to the release of the iPhone, HTC had already developed TouchFlow (and Sense), both of which were finger friendly. As far as I recall, whilst windows mobile on resistive screens in 2007 didn't support pinch to zoom but double tap to zoom predates the iphone.

 

Kudos for mentioning Jeff Han, you seem however to have overlooked the work done by JazzMutant. Whilst more expensive, their multi touch capacitive screen music controllers are closer in principle to that of the iphone than the previous offerings from FingerWorks.

 

it is difficult to take someone seriously when it is clear that they are willing to distort history in such a blatant manner, which is a shame given that it debases the salient and valid points.

post #199 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

"It may be hard to believe now, but in 2007 Microsoft's definition of a "Windows Mobile Smartphone" meant that it didn't have a touchscreen."

DED, you do yourself no favours by trying to suggest that, prior to the iphone, all phones had little passive screens and number pads (incidentally, a ridiculous claim made by Apple's legal team).

Microsoft had two versions of windows mobile, one optimised for touch screens and one optimised for phones without touch screen phones.

Your assessment of resistive screens would suggest that you have never used one, either that or you are engaged in revisionism.

For starters, it's not fair for you to tell me what I'm "trying to suggest," just because you might take something the wrong way.

As you alluded to, Microsoft had two versions of WiMo phone devices: a Palm-like PDA form factor called Pocket PC, and what I described as being ironically named "Windows Smartphone," the definition of which was that it did not have a touch screen at all.

This included the majority of the WiMo models Microsoft was selling and specifically promoting, such as the Samsung BlackJack and Motorola Q.

Microsoft wasn't similarly pushing Pocket PC models to the mainstream because they were expensive and it didn't think there was a big market for them (because there wasn't).

That's why Ballmer rideculed the iPhone and said it was too expensive in 2007, waving around the Q instead.

You can go back to Wikipedia and talk about all these great products and prototypes Microsoft and Samsung supposedly had, but that doesn't line up with the reality of what those companies were actually selling and trying to sell. That's revisionism.

Don't attack me for for stating the facts. If WiMo had not been a terrible product, the market and Microsoft itself would not have rejected it.

As for resistive screens: I owned a palm treo for several years and palm pilots for a decade. So yes I am aware of how they work.

Again, if they were superior for use in smartphones the market would not have rejected them to chase the iPhone.

Please tone down your contempt a little. You can add color and details you feel are important and otherwise express your views without accusing me a historical revisionism and the destruction of society.

This isn't UseNet.
post #200 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

No I have Android 4.3 on my Nexus 7 purchased last year.

Curious answer. You are using a nexus 7 for your phone?

Also, how's that new Bluetooth LE support in Android 4.3 working out on your tablet without BLE hardware?

Also: Google Wallet! Haha
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