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Apple, Inc. gets its fingerprints on advanced touch sensor, appears difficult for Android to copy - Page 6

post #201 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Curious answer. You are using a nexus 7 for your phone?

Also, how's that new Bluetooth LE support in Android 4.3 working out on your tablet without BLE hardware?

Also: Google Wallet! Haha

Those are both silly questions and the answer to either of them still won't make you right.. You implied that 4.3 wasn't available and I had nothing that used it.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/14/13 at 4:48am
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #202 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Is the implication that unlike the Mac Pro, the Moto X will be a high-volume product?

Well it had better be. If Google and its fans think that the ~$500 Moto X can survive selling a low few million units the way a high end pro workstation system product costing $2500-$5,000 can (and has), that would mark a new high in Android Credulity.

Two words: Nexus, Zune
post #203 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Those are both silly questions. You implied that 4.3 wasn't available and I had nothing that used it. Both of those claims were incorrect.

That is not true on either count.
post #204 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

... Microsoft had two versions of WiMo phone devices: a Palm-like PDA form factor called Pocket PC, and what I described as being ironically named "Windows Smartphone," the definition of which was that it did not have a touch screen at all.

 

True, at one time they did use that name:

 

  • Pocket PC, Smartphone (no touch) and Pocket PC Phone Edition (touch).  
  • Later they were renamed Classic, Standard and Pro.

 

Quote:
Microsoft wasn't similarly pushing Pocket PC models to the mainstream because they were expensive and it didn't think there was a big market for them (because there wasn't).

 

The WinMo Pro devices with touchscreens were more popular with US enterprise users, and overseas consumers.

 

Quote:
That's why Ballmer rideculed the iPhone and said it was too expensive in 2007, waving around the Q instead.

 

Actually, Ballmer was right that the iPhone was too expensive for the US market back when it was unsubsidized.

 

It's why, after only two months, Apple dropped its price by $200... an incredible 1/3.  

 

Which ticked off early buyers so much, Jobs had to apologize and offer some store credit.  I was on the Apple support forums when the news of the price drop broke, and oh boy what a riot.  The Apple mods had their hands full, deleting literally hundreds of angry posts each hour.  (Apple often deletes posts that are critical of the company.)  Finally, by the late afternoon they gave up their censorship attempts and just let everyone vent freely for a few days.

 

Quote:
Don't attack me for for stating the facts. If WiMo had not been a terrible product, the market and Microsoft itself would not have rejected it.

 

Surprisingly, WinMo hung in there for a few years.  It was pretty popular in some parts of the world, as it was quite customizable.   I think MS made a mistake dropping the old version to concentrate on the new.

post #205 of 210

I jumped to the conclusion that you were (possibly) being guilty of revisionism as a direct consequence of what I considered to intentional omissions and misrepresentations of the truth.

 

As an alternative explanation I did suggest that you were unfamiliar with resistive screens. You corrected me.

 

It wasn't my intention to be rude but I concede that the tone was less diplomatic than it could have been.

 

Had you been the owner of a windows mobile touchscreen phone, the errors in the opening segments of the article would have been glaringly obvious.

 

Owners/fans of Windows Mobile will recall that HTC pipped Apple to the post by releasing the finger friendly phone the HTC Touch (AKA ELF). IMO it was let down by the lower end hardware and tiny 2.8" screen. Never-the-less it supported finger swiping and scrolling even though it was a resistive screen.

 

Predating that, the HTC Advantage (AKA X7500, T-Mobile Athena) supported features such as double tap to zoom. Granted the feature was limited to the excellent (tabbed) browser Opera.

 

I can only infer from your post that you assume that I have been busy looking for prior art (on Wikipedia) to discredit your article. That is not the case, I owned the T-Mobile Athena from early 2007- to date I still consider it to be the second most impressive phone I have ever seen from a (relative to the competition)) hardware point of view. The 5" screen pretty much made the included stylus redundant except for those occasions that I wanted to draw precise images (something you can not do so easily on a capacitive screen). The inclusion of a magnetically attached 5 row qwerty keyboard(/cover) also enabled me to type faster than I have ever managed on a phone's onboard screen. This was not some MS or Samsung prototype. It was a phone that the major carriers carried.

 

I call the HTC Advantage the second most impressive phone because a couple of months after the release of the iphone, HTC released the Shift. This was an amazing phone that had a 7" screen and was capable of running WM and Vista. There are still a number of these in existence and running Windows 8. At the time I was not in the position of being able to justify owning one but I would dearly loved to have.

 

Apropos the versions of Windows Mobile (Windows CE/Pocket PC). In the very early days the market was extremely fragmented, much more than Android will probably ever be. There were 3(?) different processors, and accordingly apps were specifically written according to the processor. (From memory) round about 2004 it was clear that ARM had won the race. Towards the end of the product life there were 3 specific versions, one for PDAs, one for non-touch screen phones and one for touchscreen phones. The former version is still going strong.

 

As a European I have no idea which handsets MS were pushing. The UK carriers had been focusing on the touch screen versions from about 2003. O2 had the XDA, Orange the SPV and T-Mobile the MDA. The vast majority (although not all) were made by HTC.

 

By and large they were considered business tools for two primary reasons- cost and desirability. Even in 2007, the majority of the public didn't want a large screened phone nor did they want to be able to surf the internet or check their emails. The vogue was for razor thin small devices. Hence although WM had approximately 50% of the smartphone market, the market was still very small.

 

It is regrettable that your pre-2007 experience of touch screen smartphone was limited to the Palm Treo. Had you owned a decent Windows Mobile 5 or 6 device you would appreciate that from a functionality perspective they were far more capable than the earliest versions of the iphone/iOS. Indeed many of the features available on the WM platform are still lacking from Windows Phone and iOS. In many respects they remain more customisable than Android (out of the box).

 

I am not suggesting that WM was perfect. It was far from it. Out of the box it was pretty buggy. I found myself in a constant state of reflashing ROMs looking for a happy medium of speed and reliability. I would have to reboot every couple of weeks but it was a compromise that I was happy to make.

 

Nor have I said that resistive screens are better than capacitive. I did correct you though. A resistive screen is pixel accurate, capacitive screens are not. The resistive is better suited to certain tasks such as handwriting or precise drawing.

 

The fact that MS eventually ditched WM is not evidence that it was crap. To cite that as conclusive evidence is akin to suggesting that Mac OS was crap given that it was superseded by OSX. The latter might be better but it doesn't mean that the former was rubbish.

 

Unfortunately for far too many fans of iOS, Windows Mobile is an uncomfortable subject. There are those who would like to believe that the iOS was created in a vacuum. Even with it's flaws it was a very capable operating system. Multi-touch aside, many windows phones that predated the iPhone were able to do far more than the early generations of iphones. Yup, they might not have been as aesthetically pleasing, the OS was buggy, it mirrored the PC desktop experience with drop down menus rather than the "yes"/"no" type interface offered by iOS. Yep the market started to shun it post 2007 but since when was popularity proof positive of superiority?

post #206 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

NFC... it's now obsolete via BLE,

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand.

 

BLE requires power, NFC tags don't.

 

TBH I have only used NFC on my phone a couple of times, largely for novelty reasons but I can see how an NFC tag on the table next to my bed would be useful for customising features such as setting alarms/changing ring tone volume etc.

 

One of the biggest problems with NFC seems to be the differing technologies adopted by different OSes (a recurring theme with newer technologies).

post #207 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

The WinMo Pro devices with touchscreens were more popular with US enterprise users, and overseas consumers.

 

Actually, Ballmer was right that the iPhone was too expensive for the US market back when it was unsubsidized. It's why, after only two months, Apple dropped its price by $200... an incredible 1/3.  

 

Which ticked off early buyers so much, Jobs had to apologize and offer some store credit.  I was on the Apple support forums when the news of the price drop broke, and oh boy what a riot.  The Apple mods had their hands full, deleting literally hundreds of angry posts each hour.  (Apple often deletes posts that are critical of the company.)  Finally, by the late afternoon they gave up their censorship attempts and just let everyone vent freely for a few days.

 

 

Surprisingly, WinMo hung in there for a few years.  It was pretty popular in some parts of the world, as it was quite customizable.   I think MS made a mistake dropping the old version to concentrate on the new.

 

Interesting how you're so intouch with Apple's "great woes" and yet so oblivious to Microsoft's implosion. 

 

Enterprise abandoned Microsoft immediately. And MSFT had little real penetration anyway, RIM owned that space with BES. MSFT couldn't get in, which is why it offered its own push messaging product for Exchange for free, and willingly licensed it to Apple in iPhone 2.0.

 

You can ridicule Apple for giving previous buyers a refund, but Microsoft didn't ever apologize for WiMo, and threw away its customers with WP7, and then threw them away with WP8. That "ticked off" some people too. They'll never be back. And why should Apple host a bunch of bitching by malcontents such as yourself, most of whom didn't even own the iPhone in the first couple months? Your comments are ridiculous to the point of being shocking. Do you just jammer negativity because you're bitter, or what's your aim in attacking good things and making excuses for crap, incompetence and losers? Sympathetic affiliation?

 

Yeah, WiMo is still popular in some countries. As is Blackberry (Mexico!). And MP3 players and $34 Android tablets from China. What a great platform. Gave me a lot to write about. Incompetent, visionless, and greatly-deserved failure for a bunch of money grubbing executives who didn't care about making a good product and only wanted to extend their monopoly to keep technology from advancing. Shame on you for polishing a turd.

post #208 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

The fact that MS eventually ditched WM is not evidence that it was crap. To cite that as conclusive evidence is akin to suggesting that Mac OS was crap given that it was superseded by OSX. The latter might be better but it doesn't mean that the former was rubbish.

 

Unfortunately for far too many fans of iOS, Windows Mobile is an uncomfortable subject. There are those who would like to believe that the iOS was created in a vacuum. Even with it's flaws it was a very capable operating system. Multi-touch aside, many windows phones that predated the iPhone were able to do far more than the early generations of iphones. Yup, they might not have been as aesthetically pleasing, the OS was buggy, it mirrored the PC desktop experience with drop down menus rather than the "yes"/"no" type interface offered by iOS. Yep the market started to shun it post 2007 but since when was popularity proof positive of superiority?

 

Oh please, Windows Mobile was crap. The fact that some people were blindly in love with Microsoft and held their noses to stinkier aspects of its garbage while eating from the trough doesn't mean anything. The market abandoned WiMo for iPhone before Android 2.0 even brought Google into the mainstream.

 

Nobody believes iOS was created in a vacuum. It came into an entrenched, diverse market of smartphone vendors and wiped the floor with them.

 

Having one or two hardware features that iPhone popularized doesn't offer much room for praise as the rest of the product was garbage, particularly the software. And as MSFT demonstrated, software is a pretty important part of a platform.

 

Your dismissive scoffing at iPhone as being "yes/no" is so infantile and ridiculous it just shows how nostalgic you are for rooting through MSFT's poop to find kernels of corn. I'm embarrassed for you.

post #209 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Oh please, Windows Mobile was crap. The fact that some people were blindly in love with Microsoft and held their noses to stinkier aspects of its garbage while eating from the trough doesn't mean anything. The market abandoned WiMo for iPhone before Android 2.0 even brought Google into the mainstream.

 

Nobody believes iOS was created in a vacuum. It came into an entrenched, diverse market of smartphone vendors and wiped the floor with them.

 

Having one or two hardware features that iPhone popularized doesn't offer much room for praise as the rest of the product was garbage, particularly the software. And as MSFT demonstrated, software is a pretty important part of a platform.

 

Your dismissive scoffing at iPhone as being "yes/no" is so infantile and ridiculous it just shows how nostalgic you are for rooting through MSFT's poop to find kernels of corn. I'm embarrassed for you.

it is difficult to enter into conversation with someone that is so defensive. You (understandably) take umbrage when you consider that someone is being rude to you but you are so entrenched in your point of view that you fail to see when you are being rude.

 

Any OS on crap hardware will result in a crap experience. There were many crap winMo handsets, equally there were many high end WinMo handsets. Your dismissal of WM seems to based on little more than the fact that you dislike MS.

 

Sure, you can cite the diminishing market share of WM relative to iOS but what does that prove?  Is android superior to iOS? Is Windows superior to OSX? In both cases the former has a much higher market share.

 

One or two hardware features popularised by the iphone? What?

 

I didn't scoff at the iphone "yes"/"no"- it was a simplification to suggest that the earlier versions of WinMo tried to cram any many user selectable fields in to a screen as possible (following the desktop model) whereas the iphone running on the same sized screen had to use fewer fields given that people were using their fingers (which take up a lot more space than a stylus).

 

Incidentally I agree that MS dumped on WinMo owners. Throughout the whole of it's development they seemed to treat it as a "hobby". Many of the improvements were community driven. To that end MS were happy to allow owners reflash and distribute ROMs. From memory, the only firm that eventually started to issue cease and desist orders was HTC (they didn't want Sense, etc., ported to non HTC handsets).

 

I am not so sure that MS dumped on WP7 owners. At one stage it did look like they were going to but WP7.8 offers most of the features of WP8. There are omissions such as NFC support but none of the WP7 handsets have compatible hardware.

 

I also agree that MS were too arrogant to foresee that the iPhone would decimate WM, again, this is not proof that WM was crap. They probably assumed that WP would be the second largest player by now, it's not, does that mean that WP is crap?

 

I note that you have been very selective with regard to which parts of my posts you have taken the time to answer and trust that is evidence that you have accepted my "corrections", glad to have been of help.

 

Warmest regards.

post #210 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


Curious answer. You are using a nexus 7 for your phone?

Also, how's that new Bluetooth LE support in Android 4.3 working out on your tablet without BLE hardware?

Also: Google Wallet! Haha

I got 4.3 on my Nexus 4 around July 24th. BLE works nicely.

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