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Microsoft rehashes old arguments in latest anti-iPad Surface ad - Page 2

post #41 of 130
This just keeps getting sadder and sadder
post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You know I just went to the Apple online store and I only see the 30 pin camera adapter / SD card reader.

 

They also sell a Lightning to USB Camera Adapter which perhaps will work with a memory stick.

 

I wonder why there is no Lightning SD card reader.

 

Not sure, good question.

I have one and it has slots for all card sizes. Cost me like 10 USD.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

This just keeps getting sadder and sadder

 

Only in a pathetic sort of way. It's also funny as hell to see Uncle Fester grabbing for any small bit of illusion that he dreams up.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #44 of 130
Microsoft just don't get it, "it's not an iPad, I don't want it" over a hundred million people and growing.

A hundred bucks will get you a keyboard and a Smart Cover for your iPad.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I have one and it has slots for all card sizes. Cost me like 10 USD.

I picked one up when I bought my iPad retina, my only issue is it won't recognise a 128GB card.

Hopefully that will be addressed with iOS 7.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #46 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

Your nightclub bouncers piss off cricketers, and the cricketers piss on bouncers 

...and the English weather pisses off Australians.

Enjoy your soggy ashes.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #47 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

It's one thing to have iOS or Android on a tablet, but neither of them can compete with the X86 version of Windows 8.1.

Starting later this year and on into 2014, companies such as Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA are all starting to bring their flagship hardware to the mobile/tablet market.


If Apple want's to compete (and not just from a sales perspective), they'll need to bring OS X to tablet form.

Is that you Ballmer? ROFL
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBUFF74 View Post

Go away already Microsoft.😎

They pretty much have.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #49 of 130
IT's got a KICKSTAND.

Message to Microsoft. The GUI for Windows 8 and RT sucks. It's step backward. People don't like it. It's too stupid. Concede that it's a failure and take your loss and give up. Give them away to people in a third world county that Apple doesn't sell into and maybe they'll find a reason to use them other than a frisbee or doorjam.
post #50 of 130

Its not like the keyboard is free with every Surface is it? You have to pay extra for it, Microsoft makes it look as though it comes free with every Surface tablet.

 

Why not extend the keyboard so its also a protective case? But then it'll will block the kick stand. If you cut a hole that big in the case, it can't hold on, if the case has a stand, it'll add extra thickness and block the vent (on the Pro version, which goes all around the tablet's side). Microsoft is trying too hard to sell this flawed design as perfection.

post #51 of 130

I've seen several comments online along the lines of "They should have waited for x86 and shipped full Windows on the surface." To me this line of reasoning completely misses the fact that if you're running desktop Windows, then the product is not a tablet. The Surface Pro is horrible. It's not a tablet, it's a very strange laptop. The mistake Microsoft made was tying RT to Windows. They should have called RT "Surface OS" and left the Start button alone in Windows. In creating the two-headed monster of Windows 8, they have completely messed up consumer's expectations. Who wants an "RT only" tablet? No one. Yet, an RT tablet is a pure, battery friendly, touch environment. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot tying their new OS to the boat anchor of Windows. And it's sinking fast.


Edited by graxspoo - 8/7/13 at 7:04pm
post #52 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

The mistake Microsoft made was tying RT to Windows.

The problem with that is, they would have to literally start from scratch with developers getting them to develop apps and they would be in the "Zune" boat with consumers who would be confused.  Like it or not, "Windows" has a lot of power banding wise and it's very hard to just start from scratch.  But MS has spent a lot of effort to create the idea of Windows Everywhere and the notion that you don't need to compromise.  I don't think they want to create that impression that Apple has the idea (which is the opposite of MS's) right.

post #53 of 130
Deleted!
post #54 of 130
I don't understand Microsoft's thinking. If they convince the ignorati to buy this sh*t storm in sheet metal called Surface, do they really think that the user experience is so wonderful that those people will come back for more? Isn't more likely, given how thing flopped, that whoever fell for the ad will become walking word-of-mouth machines against Surface?
post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Did the new TV commercial of Microsoft comparing iPad to Surface RT tout their price reduction, did the Siri-like voice say, "The iPad is a hot seller, I don't have to do that!"

Well, it's not like the Surface RT has a built-in conversational AI service you can speak with.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Sorry for the confusion, I'm not talking about sales. I'm referencing their lack of ability to function as a complete operating system like Windows or OS X.

Since when has Windows been vaporware?

Silly kid, it's been proven that the vast majority don't want a desktop OS on a tablet.

Apparently for forgot what you write:

"Starting later this year and on into 2014, companies such as Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA are all starting to bring their flagship hardware to the mobile/tablet market."
post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

The problem with that is, they would have to literally start from scratch with developers getting them to develop apps and they would be in the "Zune" boat with consumers who would be confused.  Like it or not, "Windows" has a lot of power banding wise and it's very hard to just start from scratch.  But MS has spent a lot of effort to create the idea of Windows Everywhere and the notion that you don't need to compromise.  I don't think they want to create that impression that Apple has the idea (which is the opposite of MS's) right.

 

The problem is they didn't incentivize developers enough. They absolutely did need to get developers to develop new apps. There is no way around this. Windows apps are not touch based. They never have been and they never will be. You can't (comfortably) run desktop software on a tablet. It's just that simple. There is a reason why you can't run OS X apps on an iPad even though both iPads and Macs are based on Cocoa and OS X. Apple understands that the user interface aspect of interacting with software is critical, and that's why the iPhone and the iPad have been successful. Doing the opposite of a good idea just to be different isn't a winning strategy, but I agree there's definitely an element of that going on in Microsoft's behavior.

 

Also, I would say that Microsoft has created maximal customer confusion with it's current strategy. It's not at all confusing to a consumer to say they need new software for their new tablet. No one was confused that they couldn't run Mac software on their iPad. But look at what Microsoft did: They named this new touch OS Windows RT. First of all, it doesn't use or have "Windows", so that's a bad name to begin with. Secondly "RT" stands for "Run Time" which is not a phrase that is compelling or understandable to most consumers. But then you also get "RT" inside of Windows 8. So Windows 8 is now "two operating systems in one." You even get two different versions of IE running on the same computer. Some system settings you make in "desktop land" some you make in "RT land." And this isn't confusing? I think naming the new touch OS "Surface OS", and simply saying you need new software would have been much much simpler and more understandable to consumers.

post #58 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

It's one thing to have iOS or Android on a tablet, but neither of them can compete with the X86 version of Windows 8.1.

If Apple want's to compete (and not just from a sales perspective), they'll need to bring OS X to tablet form.

For nearly 20 years, full fledged x86 Windows has been offered on tablet hardware (Tablet PC, UMPC), and has failed to make a dent in the market. Along comes iPad in 2010. Pundits make fun of the name, call it a giant iPod touch, even Eric Schmidt told Steve Jobs he thought Apple was crazy to sell a tablet, precisely because tablets had done so poorly in the market. Well guess what...? Steve Jobs made all of them his bitches.

What are Windows 8 "tablets" if nothing but Tablet PCs all over again? Ooh, now with Start Screen. You know what? They haven't even beaten Apple yet and you're seriously saying Apple has to follow the Tablet PC formula of shoveling a touch screen onto a Mac OS laptop to compete with Windows 8? VERY FUNNY! I think Apple knows how to compete by playing the game on its own terms, not Microsoft's.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Silly kid, it's been proven that the vast majority don't want a desktop OS on a tablet.

Apparently for forgot what you write:

"Starting later this year and on into 2014, companies such as Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA are all starting to bring their flagship hardware to the mobile/tablet market."

 

Do you have any proof to back up your claim?

 

Do you know what vaporware means? By definition it does not apply here.

post #60 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Do you have any proof to back up your claim?

Do you know what vaporware means? By definition it does not apply here.

Um. Tablets sold with windows in the last 13 years <<<<< iPads sold in the last qtr/half.

Have any of these future products been released?
post #61 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Do you have any proof to back up your claim?

 

Oh, how about the Android/iPad sales figures versus the Surface Pro sales figures? That's pretty good proof.

 

Here's the thing: If it's running desktop software, it is simply not a tablet. You need a keyboard and a mouse, or at least a stylus to use desktop software. This destroys the tablet experience. If you want to run desktop software, buy an ultra-book. If it's a tablet, it should be purely touch based. This is pretty obvious if you've spent any time with the Surface Pro after using Android or iOS tablets. The Surface Pro is not really a tablet at all.

post #62 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

It's one thing to have iOS or Android on a tablet, but neither of them can compete with the X86 version of Windows 8.1.

 

Starting later this year and on into 2014, companies such as Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA are all starting to bring their flagship hardware to the mobile/tablet market.

 

If Apple want's to compete (and not just from a sales perspective), they'll need to bring OS X to tablet form.

 

IOS doesn't need to compete, because many people are neither looking for, nor desiring, desktop functionality on tablets to begin with. Or at least, not the sort that Windows is currently offering.

 

If I want to get serious work done, I will use a laptop, not a tablet. I have just finished reviewing a Windows 8 tablet (the acer iconia w510) for my school and my conclusion is that it sucks for most forms of productivity, mainly because the UI and screen ratio make any form of meaningful work practically impossible.

 

What Microsoft fails to mention in their ads, is how their onscreen keyboard takes up half the vertical width of the screen (thanks to its 16:9 ratio), compared to a smaller proportion of the ipad's 4:3 width, result in a lot less viewing area. Or how their apps don't always resize properly when you dismiss the virtual keyboard (did you know it doesn't automatically pop up? You have to press a tiny icon on the taskbar for that). Throw in a not-very responsive touchscreen, a crappy trackpad (on their bundled keyboard dock) and apps whose UI are not optimised for touch, and you have a recipe for frustration and inefficiency. 

 

Or how that 16:9 screen is wholly unsuited for reading, because your screen is either too short or too narrow. And that kickstand doesn't support portrait mode either. Or how I can get a cheap pdf-reader / annotation app on my ipad for just $2 (notability). In addition, while the Surface sports a type keyboard, the reality is that as a tablet, I should be able to use it fully without the need for additional peripherals, because the whole draw is its portability and form factor compared to a laptop. 

 

And good luck trying to use a full-fledged windows tablet on your lap. The back of mine grew so hot, I believed for a moment it would burn my leg. 

 

Basically, everything I did on a Windows 8 tablet seemed to involve a few extra (and unnecessary) steps compared to the ipad. It just doesn't work, because the ability to do this or that means squat if you can't do them properly. 

post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


For nearly 20 years, full fledged x86 Windows has been offered on tablet hardware (Tablet PC, UMPC), and has failed to make a dent in the market. Along comes iPad in 2010. Pundits make fun of the name, call it a giant iPod touch, even Eric Schmidt told Steve Jobs he thought Apple was crazy to sell a tablet, precisely because tablets had done so poorly in the market. Well guess what...? Steve Jobs made all of them his bitches.

What are Windows 8 "tablets" if nothing but Tablet PCs all over again? Ooh, now with Start Screen. You know what? They haven't even beaten Apple yet and you're seriously saying Apple has to follow the Tablet PC formula of shoveling a touch screen onto a Mac OS laptop to compete with Windows 8? VERY FUNNY! I think Apple knows how to compete by playing the game on its own terms, not Microsoft's.

The difference between now and the past 20 years are the technological advances and changes in infrastructure. These are the key developments that can allow Windows to play a major role in the tablet market.

post #64 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

The difference between now and the past 20 years are the technological advances and changes in infrastructure. These are the key developments that can allow Windows to play a major role in the tablet market.

 

Really? Name one.
 

The reason PC tablets failed all along has nothing to do with hardware (though certainly longer battery life, better performance is always welcome). The reason they failed was that Microsoft didn't have the vision or guts to say "a tablet needs it own touch-based operating system." No one wants to use a stylus or a horrible mini track-pad when using a tablet. It's a user interface issue. No "technological advances" can make up for crappy UI design.


Edited by graxspoo - 8/7/13 at 8:31pm
post #65 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

The difference between now and the past 20 years are the technological advances and changes in infrastructure. These are the key developments that can allow Windows to play a major role in the tablet market.

Ballmer, is that you?
post #66 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

 

Oh, how about the Android/iPad sales figures versus the Surface Pro sales figures? That's pretty good proof.

 

Here's the thing: If it's running desktop software, it is simply not a tablet. You need a keyboard and a mouse, or at least a stylus to use desktop software. This destroys the tablet experience. If you want to run desktop software, buy an ultra-book. If it's a tablet, it should be purely touch based. This is pretty obvious if you've spent any time with the Surface Pro after using Android or iOS tablets. The Surface Pro is not really a tablet at all.

The Surface Pro is giant and costs 2 to 3 times that of an Android or iOS tablet, how is that proof? They're not even in the same class.

 

A stylus is an easy fix for complex software. Look at the $480 ThinkPad Tablet 2 for example. Thinner and lighter than an iPad 4 and it has a Wacom stylus that tucks away into the top.

 

If a user wishes to use a keyboard or mouse they can just dock it into one. I'm not saying all OEMs are going to produce outstanding devices with perfect form and function, but companies such as Lenovo and ASUS are definitely on the right track.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Um. Tablets sold with windows in the last 13 years <<<<< iPads sold in the last qtr/half.

Have any of these future products been released?

 

Why does that mean no one wants a modern Windows based tablet? There are very few tablets with the same form as the iPad 4 on the market.

post #67 of 130
People on a sinking ship resort to desperate measures.
post #68 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

The Surface Pro is giant and costs 2 to 3 times that of an Android or iOS tablet, how is that proof? They're not even in the same class.

 

A stylus is an easy fix for complex software. Look at the $480 ThinkPad Tablet 2 for example. Thinner and lighter than an iPad 4 and it has a Wacom stylus that tucks away into the top.

 

If a user wishes to use a keyboard or mouse they can just dock it into one. I'm not saying all OEMs are going to produce outstanding devices with perfect form and function, but companies such as Lenovo and ASUS are definitely on the right track.

 

 

Why does that mean no one wants a modern Windows based tablet? There are very few tablets with the same form as the iPad 4 on the market.

 

It's proof because it's failing. Surface Pro is a horrible product. It's not a good laptop and its not a good tablet. Consumers realize this when they try to use the thing. It's no fun at all. Microsoft somehow thought they were clever attaching a keyboard to a tablet, but they just re-invented an ultra-book. It's kind of sad really.

 

Do you use tablets at all? Because no one wants to use a stylus. Microsoft keeps pushing styli down our throats. We keep spitting them out. What is the last successful product that required the use of a stylus? I think it was probably the Palm Pilot back in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Tablets are for casual use. They should be light, easy to hold, have great battery life, and require a minimum of system administration. They should not require a keyboard or a stylus or any other peripherals.

post #69 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by batman3n1 View Post

People on a sinking ship resort to desperate measures.

Like getting it turned in the right direction. 1biggrin.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #70 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

 

IOS doesn't need to compete, because many people are neither looking for, nor desiring, desktop functionality on tablets to begin with. Or at least, not the sort that Windows is currently offering.

 

If I want to get serious work done, I will use a laptop, not a tablet. I have just finished reviewing a Windows 8 tablet (the acer iconia w510) for my school and my conclusion is that it sucks for most forms of productivity, mainly because the UI and screen ratio make any form of meaningful work practically impossible.

 

What Microsoft fails to mention in their ads, is how their onscreen keyboard takes up half the vertical width of the screen (thanks to its 16:9 ratio), compared to a smaller proportion of the ipad's 4:3 width, result in a lot less viewing area. Or how their apps don't always resize properly when you dismiss the virtual keyboard (did you know it doesn't automatically pop up? You have to press a tiny icon on the taskbar for that). Throw in a not-very responsive touchscreen, a crappy trackpad (on their bundled keyboard dock) and apps whose UI are not optimised for touch, and you have a recipe for frustration and inefficiency. 

 

Or how that 16:9 screen is wholly unsuited for reading, because your screen is either too short or too narrow. And that kickstand doesn't support portrait mode either. Or how I can get a cheap pdf-reader / annotation app on my ipad for just $2 (notability). In addition, while the Surface sports a type keyboard, the reality is that as a tablet, I should be able to use it fully without the need for additional peripherals, because the whole draw is its portability and form factor compared to a laptop. 

 

And good luck trying to use a full-fledged windows tablet on your lap. The back of mine grew so hot, I believed for a moment it would burn my leg. 

 

Basically, everything I did on a Windows 8 tablet seemed to involve a few extra (and unnecessary) steps compared to the ipad. It just doesn't work, because the ability to do this or that means squat if you can't do them properly. 

Yet the line a windows laptop and tablet is going to disappear soon. Why do you think companies like Intel are pushing Bay Trail towards 2-in-1 computers?

 

Most current Windows 8 tablets are either a work in progress or (in the W510's case) a mess. There are also quite a number of fixes to UI in version 8.1.

 

Many Windows 8 tablets on the market use Intel's Clover Trail, which is essentially a dual core Atom (based on an architecture from 2008), 2GB LPDDR2 RAM, and a way outdated single core PowerVR SGX545 GPU. This GPU could hardly push the already low resolution displays (1366x768).

 

Hardware such as Bay Trail uses an Ivy Bride tri-gate based architecture with 4 out-of-order cores, up to 4GB LPDDR3, and an Ivy Bridge based Intel GPU with complete API support (Direct X 11, OpenGL 4.x, OpenGL ES 3.0, etc.). The GPU allows for high resolution output (something 8.1 has been optimized for).

 

At Computex 2013, Bay Trail was spotted running a Windows tablet with a 9.7inch with a 2,048x1,536 resolution (4:3) [same as the iPad 4].  

 

So it shouldn't be hard to see how the advancement in hardware + software changes can go a long way to creating a useful tablet.

post #71 of 130

The touch keyboard is the future. Apple goes forward Microsoft, you go backward.

Just like your sales go backward. 

Your price is to high even if yours was free I still would not want it because it is old technology.

I don't want to pay another $150 for your keyboard that falls apart in a month.

post #72 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

The difference between now and the past 20 years are the technological advances and changes in infrastructure. These are the key developments that can allow Windows to play a major role in the tablet market.

Hardware has improved, no doubt (though it still seems that only Apple can make decent trackpads), but the UI still sucks, and it is clearly not suitable for a touch-centric interface. 

 

Apple has shown that you need both solid hardware and great software to create that good user experience. All the specs in the world won't save a product that is hard to use because its UI sucks. How do you think the ipad outsold every tablet in the market, despite its first iteration having just 256mb of ram and a single-core 1GHZ processor? 

post #73 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

Yet the line a windows laptop and tablet is going to disappear soon. Why do you think companies like Intel are pushing Bay Trail towards 2-in-1 computers?

 

Most current Windows 8 tablets are either a work in progress or (in the W510's case) a mess. There are also quite a number of fixes to UI in version 8.1.

 

Many Windows 8 tablets on the market use Intel's Clover Trail, which is essentially a dual core Atom (based on an architecture from 2008), 2GB LPDDR2 RAM, and a way outdated single core PowerVR SGX545 GPU. This GPU could hardly push the already low resolution displays (1366x768).

 

Hardware such as Bay Trail uses an Ivy Bride tri-gate based architecture with 4 out-of-order cores, up to 4GB LPDDR3, and an Ivy Bridge based Intel GPU with complete API support (Direct X 11, OpenGL 4.x, OpenGL ES 3.0, etc.). The GPU allows for high resolution output (something 8.1 has been optimized for).

 

At Computex 2013, Bay Trail was spotted running a Windows tablet with a 9.7inch with a 2,048x1,536 resolution (4:3) [same as the iPad 4].  

 

So it shouldn't be hard to see how the advancement in hardware + software changes can go a long way to creating a useful tablet.

 

Because Intel doesn't have a choice. 

 

The PC market has always been more or less dictated by whatever version of Windows Microsoft throws out. Since Microsoft is trying to push its own frankenstein of a desktop-tablet hybrid OS, Intel has to more or less support Microsoft the best they can, because they know that the manufacturers are going to be making laptop / tablet hybrids of their own anyways, and so they had better have the chips ready. 

 

If you read my comment above, I believe that specs alone only go so far in creating a pleasurable user experience on a mobile device. You can give me all the ram and the fastest SSD in the world, it still doesn't change the fact that my app isn't coded to take advantage of a touchscreen, the touchscreen still isn't very responsive, or that underneath all those brightly coloured tiles, you are still running windows, with all the legacy problems and limitations of a desktop OS.

 

I am not outrightly dismissing the concept of a surface-pro like device. I believe that anything is possible, if implemented right. And I still maintain that Windows 8 is still not the right OS for such an endeavour.  

post #74 of 130

The Microsoft Surface sucks. The whole Surface contraption (awful keyboard, out of place looking kickstand) is just a mess if you compare it to a normal functional laptop. Steve Jobs once said that Microsoft have "no style", and that is absolutely true. Apple has set the standard of how a tablet should be made, and I do not think Microsoft will ever be able to catch up.

post #75 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

It's one thing to have iOS or Android on a tablet, but neither of them can compete with the X86 version of Windows 8.1.

 

remind me again why tablet sales are going up, while X86 versions of Windows 8.1 are going down?

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

 

Since when has Windows been vaporware?

 

does the word Longhorn help refresh your memory? 

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post #77 of 130
ZZZZZZ!
Written on my iPad mini!!!!
post #78 of 130

I don't think anything Microsoft does will help at this point.

 

They are known to dump products that aren't successful (as any company should), but with such high-profile failures such as the Zune and Kin, folk are wary about signing on with something that could disappear at any moment. And without sales it becomes increasingly likely that MS will dump it. Sort of a vicious circle.

post #79 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

iOS cannot even do half the things OS X can.

 You are looking at this upside down. Its OS X cannot even do half the things iOS can.  Likewise, Windows OS 8.1 can not even do 1/4 things iOS can. 

 

If you don't understand what I mean by this then you will never understand why people are liking tablets more than laptops.. and it has nothing do to with price or doing all the same things laptops can do.   Recall, Windows XP Netbooks were about the same price with similar sized screens as tablets. again, not a price thing.

 

By your same reasoning a car can not do half the things a heavy-duty pickup can do. The engine is not as powerful, it can't tow, it can't go off road, it cant haul plywood, it does a body on frame construction to be stiff and haul heavy loads in the cargo area, etc, etc.  To someone else the truck can not do 1/2 the things the car can do. Travel in comfort, get good gas milage, handle better around the corners, easier to park, etc, etc.

 

do you get it? they are not the same thing.  You don't need to have one thing do everything well.. there are trade offs. You cant mix the two together and get the best of both worlds.  You just create crappy solutions to both problems like a Chevy El' Camino. Build a great car and you have built a crappy truck.. build a great truck and you have built a crappy car.  Likewise. build a great laptop and you have built a crappy tablet. Build a great tablet and you have built a crappy laptop.  Steve Jobs had it right.. tablets will be cars.. PC's will be trucks. Can you end this stupid goal of "it does everything better" of the Surface device?  The Surface is a Chevy El' Camino.  It takes a special kind of stubborn person who wants the comforts of a car but can not let go of his need for a truck.  Not a very good seller that El' Camino.. but pretty. 


Edited by snova - 8/8/13 at 12:09am
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #80 of 130
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Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

 

Because Intel doesn't have a choice. 

 

The PC market has always been more or less dictated by whatever version of Windows Microsoft throws out. Since Microsoft is trying to push its own frankenstein of a desktop-tablet hybrid OS, Intel has to more or less support Microsoft the best they can, because they know that the manufacturers are going to be making laptop / tablet hybrids of their own anyways, and so they had better have the chips ready. 

 

Intel...what can you say.  They had the StrongARM and could have been very competitive.... instead they got greedy and decided they did not want to compete with others in the ARM architecture. They wanted to dominate using their own architecture, thus sold off StrongARM to Marvell and trying pushed Atom into mobile. The gamble did not pay off. They have flounder for years trying to get the power budget under control.  All the time saying people will want the horsepower of the x86 in their phones and tablets and rerunning existing legacy apps designed for x86.  Meanwhile, others in the mobile industry put focus into offloading high horse power functions away from the CPU and into GPU and other CPU offloading devices like H264 encoders/decoders. 

 

Also, Intel has not been standing still trying to wait for Windows to get its act together in mobile.  Actually more like spinning in circles.    Moblin, Moblin 2, Meego (w/ Nokia), and now Tizen (w/Samsung).  Its all the same open source guys at Intel Open Technology Center (OTC) chasing their tails. Android was a dirty word for them because it was a synonymous with ARM.   Finally, they broke down and started to secretly work on Android porting to hedge their bets. 

 

I have yet to see the Samsung Android tablet with the x86 core in it.  Which was Intel's big HW win this year. Lets see if it will sell. 


Edited by snova - 8/7/13 at 11:38pm
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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