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Microsoft rehashes old arguments in latest anti-iPad Surface ad - Page 3

post #81 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I have yet to see the Samsung Android tablet with the x86 core in it.  Which was Intel's big HW win this year. Lets see if it will sell. 

 


Yes, it's another strange iteration of the hybrid idea... Windows 8 + Android. The demo looked pretty slick, but you never know until you actually feel one in your hands. It's also supposed to be pricey ($1500 or so was one estimate I saw based on the German pricing). I kind of like all these funny hybrid experiments that manufacturers are spinning out. Maybe one or two of them will actually catch on. Another variation that I'm interested in is an Android ultra-book.

post #82 of 130
Microsoft is grate. There tablet is way more gooder than any ol peice of crap from Apples. I seen one and it peeked my in trust. I can't by one coz I'm a IT guy and they're ain't no work so I'm broke but if more of yous wood buy some I could fix em and make some money so I could have one to. Than you could all fine out how nice they are and stop it out already with the apples this and apples that. Also when they say Bill Gaits named the company after his weener that's a dum roomer.
post #83 of 130
Wake up Microsoft !!!
post #84 of 130
Microsoft rehashes old arguments......makes a real hash of it.

That kickstand is going to be knocked away if they aren't careful and the surface will fall.....already happening!

Surface = shallow on this one.
post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Another variation that I'm interested in is an Android ultra-book.

You're not alone man. You and the rest of you.
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post #86 of 130
Microsoft doesn't have any brains in bringing new innovations that catches the WOW! in the mind of intelligent consumers. In the end they simply tries to criticise others and try their best in promoting there inferior third rated products as superior ones. Intelligent consumers are aware of what is superior and inferior and will no longer buys what Microsoft say and today it is not 1995. Whatever gadget Microsoft brings is through cloning; stealing; and it is not going to work in their favour as long as they are re-organising with pc and ponder with keyboard, USB, pc based interface and fancy a lot in innovating bulky, heavy portable devices that puke.

See from today it perspective that too from consumer point of dimension

Why do we need too many USB interface based on old protocols that is populated in surface tablet? Today there is cloud, wireless Internet and apps like Evernote,
Google Drive, Dropbox. So only or two port is necessary that is based on USB 3

Why do we need keyboard which is a pain with portable devices ? Today there are several app providing faster, smarter ways to type in that too using only thumb or not even looking at the soft keys for instance fleshy.

Next no one will be using portable devices for drafting massive document blended with chats, graphics and other multi-media interface the moment they need this they immediately switches to a notebook where the same will be viewed via potable devices with the support of editing

So MS consumers are smarter than you and tricking them like before starting from 1995 is no longer going to work
post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

Apple could make an excellent response ad...
Quote:

My vision for a response ad Apple would never do is...

The voice of the iPad would begin responding to surface with the nice siri voice, then change to Aaron Paul's voice (Jesse - Breaking Bad) and begin roasting the surface! (Drumroll after insults optional) :-)

"Hey don't you think it's ironic your named Surface when your sales are sinking!"

"I'm shocked people didn't run out and buy you based on your clicking kickstand ads!"

"Keep talking trash Surface, your the next Zune Biiiitttttch!"
post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33 View Post

So it shouldn't be hard to see how the advancement in hardware + software changes can go a long way to creating a useful tablet.

We're there already. It's called the iPad.
post #89 of 130
The thing that is obvious (and is more apparent if you watch it over) is that Apple's FaceTime is super-smooth and high resolution. If you pay close attention to the Surface RT when it tries to pull in the video conference alongside the other app, it is jittery and clearly less than 24 frames per second.

MS win? Not. Clearly the ability to do "two things at once" here means doing neither of them well.
post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

It's proof because it's failing. Surface Pro is a horrible product. It's not a good laptop and its not a good tablet. Consumers realize this when they try to use the thing. It's no fun at all. Microsoft somehow thought they were clever attaching a keyboard to a tablet, but they just re-invented an ultra-book. It's kind of sad really.

Do you use tablets at all? Because no one wants to use a stylus. Microsoft keeps pushing styli down our throats. We keep spitting them out. What is the last successful product that required the use of a stylus? I think it was probably the Palm Pilot back in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Tablets are for casual use. They should be light, easy to hold, have great battery life, and require a minimum of system administration. They should not require a keyboard or a stylus or any other peripherals.

I would actually love to have a pro ipad model with a stylus and wacom digitizer to use with the excellent drawing apps on ios. I know most consumers don't use an ipad like this, but I would. I sketch out ideas or start mockups on my ipad when not by my mbp so some of us use our ipad in a different way. I can't be the only one that would like a little more precision when using ios drawing apps.
post #91 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

We're there already. It's called the iPad.

I agree. However, I do believe that there's a market for an iPad with an attached hardware keyboard. Call it the iPad Pro.

For many people, the iPad does everything they need it to and they don't need a full blown MBA. However, the limiting factor is the keyboard. if you're writing reports or long emails, the screen keyboard can really slow you down (even though it's great for short emails and texts). And since the keyboard would add to the physical dimensions, they could probably improve the battery life even more (ads showing business executive getting on a plane in LA, turning on his iPad Pro and then getting off the plane in Beijing 17 hours later with a completed project).

An iPad Pro would further increase the number of people who could use it. Of course, it might cut into some of the low end MBA users, but I doubt if the margin on a $1 K iPad Pro would be significantly different than on an $1 K MBA, so that probably wouldn't matter much.
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post #92 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I agree. However, I do believe that there's a market for an iPad with an attached hardware keyboard. Call it the iPad Pro.

For many people, the iPad does everything they need it to and they don't need a full blown MBA. However, the limiting factor is the keyboard. if you're writing reports or long emails, the screen keyboard can really slow you down (even though it's great for short emails and texts). And since the keyboard would add to the physical dimensions, they could probably improve the battery life even more (ads showing business executive getting on a plane in LA, turning on his iPad Pro and then getting off the plane in Beijing 17 hours later with a completed project).

An iPad Pro would further increase the number of people who could use it. Of course, it might cut into some of the low end MBA users, but I doubt if the margin on a $1 K iPad Pro would be significantly different than on an $1 K MBA, so that probably wouldn't matter much.

You do realize there are Bluetooth keyboards that connect with the iPad already.
post #93 of 130
Microsoft still doesn't understand the concept of a tablet, which to them is a rehashed netbook, albeit with a flimsy, extra-cost keyboard. A tablet is an appliance device to conveniently and rapidly do most of what people need a mobile computer to do, without a cumbersome keyboard. A tablet is not a pseudo laptop.
post #94 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

You do realize there are Bluetooth keyboards that connect with the iPad already.

Of course. But that's not as convenient as a single device. You need to manage a separate set of batteries and then try to hold the thing in some convenient way when you type - which probably means a stand of some type, as well. An iPad Pro with keyboard attached to the iPad (like a Mini-MBA) would be far more convenient.
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post #95 of 130
Seriously? I have a keyboard case and charge it once a month, at most. I use it daily, and for heavy writing, the second battery has never bothered me. As a bonus, I purchased it for 50 bucks, half the price of the surface attachable keyboard, I can use it on my lap, and its like typing on a real keyboard.
post #96 of 130
The price comparison shows it was close. If they put it right under 50% gap it would probably sell a bit more. Again I said "a bit more" not much. The value of money consumer spent would still be a waste if in fact consumer still prefer using iPad. I don't mind paying more if in fact I am using it. Lack of keyboard? Then what is the use of touchscreen? And also that kick stand feature is ridiculously unnecessary, using left hand holding it and tilt it to all direction is more flexible and more sophisticate. LMAO MS, nice try.
post #97 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDO2000 View Post

I would actually love to have a pro ipad model with a stylus

My #1 iPad accessory or feature request!

A pressure sensitive stylus for iMac, iPad, & iPad Mini!

Apple needs to take the charge on this as third party iPad stylus efforts really SUCK at the moment! Professionals don't finger paint!

An iMac you can draw on with pen pressure, this would be a Wacom Cintiq killer! Some of Apples most loyal customers are graphic designers & artists, a no brainer feature. The Wacom Cintiq is way overpriced now, I would love to eliminate my need for Wacom products!
post #98 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

does the word Longhorn help refresh your memory? 

Longhorn was the development codename for Vista, so Longhorn wasn't vaporware as it shipped in early 2007, does that help refresh your memory?

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post #99 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post Another variation that I'm interested in is an Android ultra-book.

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post #100 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post



Can be used as a POS!

Yep, Piece Of Shite!
post #101 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDO2000 View Post


I would actually love to have a pro ipad model with a stylus and wacom digitizer to use with the excellent drawing apps on ios. I know most consumers don't use an ipad like this, but I would. I sketch out ideas or start mockups on my ipad when not by my mbp so some of us use our ipad in a different way. I can't be the only one that would like a little more precision when using ios drawing apps.

 

They do make drawing styli for the iPad. Have you tried any of them? The iPad's touch response is supposed to be highly accurate, so the main thing is "you need a smaller finger." And I appreciate what you're saying. There's always room for special purpose hardware. My main point is, if you fundamentally need a stylus or a keyboard to operate the thing, it ain't  a tablet. 

post #102 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
Video of the ATIV Q

 

My comment about Android ultra-books was in relation to a discussion about the ATIV Q. The ATIV Q, while interesting, isn't what I was talking about. It runs Windows (as well as Android) and is more of a "hybrid tablet" than an ultra-book. It's also quite expensive (probably around $1500-1600!) What I'd like to see, and I think there are some of these in the pipe-line, is a pure Android device, a clamshell about the size of a iPad-mini or a Kindle Fire, with a dedicated keyboard, i.e. an ultra-book running Android. (I think form factor of the Nexus 7 is too small, because the keyboard will be tiny... one step up from that.) 

post #103 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by macart View Post


Can be used as a POS!

Yep, Piece Of Shite!

 

Wow, what a insightful post. I just love it when people post negative comments about devices they have never used or plan on using.

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post #104 of 130

Check this out: $120 for a Android 4.1 ultrabook.  Reading the specs my only beef is with the battery life. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/WolVol-Operating-Notebook-Computer-Installed/dp/B007RFNV2U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_5

post #105 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

What is the last successful product that required the use of a stylus? 

 

Probably the Galaxy Note series.

 

Note 3 will be launching around the same time as a new iPhone.

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post #106 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

 

My comment about Android ultra-books was in relation to a discussion about the ATIV Q. The ATIV Q, while interesting, isn't what I was talking about. It runs Windows (as well as Android) and is more of a "hybrid tablet" than an ultra-book. It's also quite expensive (probably around $1500-1600!) What I'd like to see, and I think there are some of these in the pipe-line, is a pure Android device, a clamshell about the size of a iPad-mini or a Kindle Fire, with a dedicated keyboard, i.e. an ultra-book running Android. (I think form factor of the Nexus 7 is too small, because the keyboard will be tiny... one step up from that.) 

Oh, I missed that. In that case take a look at the Asus Transformer Infinity. It is one of my favorite devices.

 

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post #107 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Check this out: $120 for a Android 4.1 ultrabook.  Reading the specs my only beef is with the battery life. 

http://www.amazon.com/WolVol-Operating-Notebook-Computer-Installed/dp/B007RFNV2U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_5


Sure. If your standards are low enough, anything looks like a good deal. If you want to throw your money away on that POS, feel free. For starters, how far do you think 4 GB of storage is going to last you? Not to mention bargain basement crapware components.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Longhorn was the development codename for Vista, so Longhorn wasn't vaporware as it shipped in early 2007, does that help refresh your memory?

Sort of. Longhorn was pretty seriously gutted, so Vista was only a fraction of what Longhorn was supposed to be.
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post #108 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Check this out: $120 for a Android 4.1 ultrabook.  Reading the specs my only beef is with the battery life. 

http://www.amazon.com/WolVol-Operating-Notebook-Computer-Installed/dp/B007RFNV2U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_5


Looks like crap. How can you type well if the keyboard is that cramped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Oh, I missed that. In that case take a look at the Asus Transformer Infinity. It is one of my favorite devices.



Looks like an MBA.
post #109 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Sure. If your standards are low enough, anything looks like a good deal. If you want to throw your money away on that POS, feel free. For starters, how far do you think 4 GB of storage is going to last you? Not to mention bargain basement crapware components.
Sort of. Longhorn was pretty seriously gutted, so Vista was only a fraction of what Longhorn was supposed to be.

 

Yeah, Longhorn was the bait-and-switch enticement to embrace Vista. It implied that even if we don't get all the Longhorn features into the initial release of Vista, they will eventually come.

 

A bit more was added to W7 but still, two OS iterations on, and even W8 doesn't have all the features promised with Longhorn.

 

I've seen how Windows runs on these low-end "tablets". It isn't good. I got something akin to a 'blue screen' the first time I demo'd one. I instantly flashed back to the guy demoing the Surface at the launch announcement, and it crashed then too.

 

No, I don't want these undependable Win-driven devices at MY point of sale. EVER.

post #110 of 130

I've been wondering about something...

 

Where do you put the Surface keyboard when you're not using it? I mean, you have to carry it with you, right? Where does it live when it's not 'clicked' to your Surface?

 

This kind of implies that a Surface requires a bag to carry along with all its bits and pieces? How easy is it to damage that keyboard by bending it?

 

 

I have to say, one of the things I have loved about my iPad is: No. Laptop. Bag. to lug around.

 

I use an integrated keyboard case. Barely adds any weight or thickness, folds back and voila. I'm typing. It actually has keys too, so I suspect it feels a lot nicer than that plastic sheet they use on the Surface.

 

So, where does one need to keep that snap-on keyboard safely when not in use?

post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Check this out: $120 for a Android 4.1 ultrabook.  Reading the specs my only beef is with the battery life. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/WolVol-Operating-Notebook-Computer-Installed/dp/B007RFNV2U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_5

 

Yay. The Netbook reborn! You say your only beef is the battery life?? I'd have some issues with that screen too. I can see just how grainy it is from this photo alone. Just by looking at it, I'm guessing it's too heavy, too fragile, and too cheaply made (inside and out) to even be worth the $120. What on earth would you use it for? Why on earth would anyone remotely consider this as an alternative to… anything?

 

It's fine to say "just web and email, basic document editing", since that's about all I would entrust it to do. If that. Why spend good money to guarantee you'd be constrained to those few tasks? Spend a couple of hundred more, and you've got an iPad Mini capable of everything this can do and MUCH more. Yes, the specs and build quality (and company of record: Apple) of ANY iPad pretty much guarantee it.

 

Just saying.

 

 

[EDIT] Just out of curiosity, I went back and dove into some of the details at that Amazon link. I'm still wondering why you posted this crappy little thing to this forum?

 

I was right, it weighs a ton. Well, 1.6 pounds to be exact. That seems fairly excessive for a 7" "mini laptop netbook notebook computer tablet PC" (they don't even know what to call it exactly, eh?). An 11" MacBook Air weighs only half a pound more, but it's a much more substantial machine.

 

I don't see any specs to crow about. 2-hour battery life aside, the whole package seems more than a bit… I don't know… bad?

 

I skimmed the reviews as well. Don't you find it suspect that 10 of the whopping 13 total reviews gave it a full 5-star rating? Seriously? Even the best Apple products don't enjoy that high a ratings ratio. Those are certainly suspect, to say the least.

 

I imagine it's crap products like this one that lets "Strategy Analytics" try to claim that Apple is being outsold 2 to 1 by similar "white box" devices… it IS an "Android "tablet" thing" after all. It's ALSO a laptop, netbook, notebook computer PC… whatever. SA will count it against Apple's competitive space. Stupid.

 

Come on. Don't waste our time here with nonsense like this. It's pointless and worthless. Do you understand why I say that?


Edited by tribalogical - 8/8/13 at 5:53pm
post #112 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

Yay. The Netbook reborn! You say your only beef is the battery life?? I'd have some issues with that screen too. I can see just how grainy it is from this photo alone. Just by looking at it, I'm guessing it's too heavy, too fragile, and too cheaply made (inside and out) to even be worth the $120. What on earth would you use it for? Why on earth would anyone remotely consider this as an alternative to… anything?

 

It's fine to say "just web and email, basic document editing", since that's about all I would entrust it to do. If that. Why spend good money to guarantee you'd be constrained to those few tasks? Spend a couple of hundred more, and you've got an iPad Mini capable of everything this can do and MUCH more. Yes, the specs and build quality (and company of record: Apple) of ANY iPad pretty much guarantee it.

 

Just saying.

 

 

[EDIT] Just out of curiosity, I went back and dove into some of the details at that Amazon link. I'm still wondering why you posted this crappy little thing to this forum?

 

I was right, it weighs a ton. Well, 1.6 pounds to be exact. That seems fairly excessive for a 7" "mini laptop netbook notebook computer tablet PC" (they don't even know what to call it exactly, eh?). An 11" MacBook Air weighs only half a pound more, but it's a much more substantial machine.

 

I don't see any specs to crow about. 2-hour battery life aside, the whole package seems more than a bit… I don't know… bad?

 

I skimmed the reviews as well. Don't you find it suspect that 10 of the whopping 13 total reviews gave it a full 5-star rating? Seriously? Even the best Apple products don't enjoy that high a ratings ratio. Those are certainly suspect, to say the least.

 

I imagine it's crap products like this one that lets "Strategy Analytics" try to claim that Apple is being outsold 2 to 1 by similar "white box" devices… it IS an "Android "tablet" thing" after all. It's ALSO a laptop, netbook, notebook computer PC… whatever. SA will count it against Apple's competitive space. Stupid.

 

Come on. Don't waste our time here with nonsense like this. It's pointless and worthless. Do you understand why I say that?

 

What language do they speak in Brooklyn New York USA?

 

 

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post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What language do they speak in Brooklyn New York USA?

They speak Cabbie, Mook, and a little Mashugina.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


They speak Cabbie, Mook, and a little Mashugina.

 

So likewise called as not English?

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post #115 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So likewise called as not English?

As I understand it, they're all dialects of American English. 1wink.gif1tongue.gif

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #116 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

What language do they speak in Brooklyn New York USA?

 

I think this particular group speaks "Google Chinglish". It's kind of like 1970's Consumer Electronics User Manual "Japlish", only automated by computerized algorithms. I find its strange poetic qualities to be oddly similar to when William Shatner did his "beat poetry" treatments of Sarah Palin's tweets.

 

I liked these passages the best:

 

 

...the slew of producers vying for piece of the overall industry with their own particular elucidation of this journal workstation, it’s difficult to resolve in the event that you need this exceedingly transportable gadget...

Android computer is celebrated around the world working framework which depletes a mess of force, client neighborly likewise its motion picture foundation light is exceptionally salubrious for the eyes.

 

 

(double finger snaps!)  "… which depletes a mess of force, client neighborly likewise…" (double finger snaps!)

 

It's ART, I tell ya. ART!


Edited by tribalogical - 8/8/13 at 9:21pm
post #117 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post


Come on. Don't waste our time here with nonsense like this. It's pointless and worthless. Do you understand why I say that?

 


First of all, I wasn't "crowing" about this. Yes, it's cheap, and probably a little too cheap for me.  But, I'm an industry watcher, and I'm interested in the Android ultrabook idea, because there's the possibility of making very cheap and portable "laptop like" things. It's an emerging category, with a couple of early entries from otherwise unknown companies. That was the spirit in which it was offered. So no, I don't see this as pointless or worthless, but if you're not interested in that market segment, that's OK with me.

post #118 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Oh, I missed that. In that case take a look at the Asus Transformer Infinity. It is one of my favorite devices.

 

That looks pretty cool. It's $400 for the base unit, plus another $115 for the keyboard/dock. That puts the price on the high side IMO. If you look at the Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, or Nook HD+, you can see that it's possible to make and sell a decent small Android tablet for around $150.  Adding a bit of expense for the keyboard, I'd like to see Android ultrabooks selling in the $200 to $300 range.

post #119 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

I've been wondering about something...

 

Where do you put the Surface keyboard when you're not using it? I mean, you have to carry it with you, right? Where does it live when it's not 'clicked' to your Surface?

 

This kind of implies that a Surface requires a bag to carry along with all its bits and pieces? How easy is it to damage that keyboard by bending it?

 

 

I have to say, one of the things I have loved about my iPad is: No. Laptop. Bag. to lug around.

 

I use an integrated keyboard case. Barely adds any weight or thickness, folds back and voila. I'm typing. It actually has keys too, so I suspect it feels a lot nicer than that plastic sheet they use on the Surface.

 

So, where does one need to keep that snap-on keyboard safely when not in use?

The keyboard is an accessory, it's not required for the operation of the unit. Windows 8 has a virtual keyboard which works just like any other tablet.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #120 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

The keyboard is an accessory, it's not required for the operation of the unit. Windows 8 has a virtual keyboard which works just like any other tablet.

 

Well, yeah? I get that. Did I ask, "What is this add-on keyboard thing, is it required or just an accessory?" Nope… I understand that it's optional.

 

My question was mainly about where you keep the 'snap-on' keyboard when it's not snapped on. Does it require that you carry it "separately" if you want to have it with you? Or does it "fold up" and integrate like a screen cover, or behind the Surface, when not in use and being carried, or…? If it doesn't remain attached when not in use (e.g. while carrying the Surface) then how bulky is it? How fragile? 

 

So, again, "where does one need to keep that snap-on keyboard safely when not in use?"


Edited by tribalogical - 8/9/13 at 2:26am
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