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Steve Jobs reportedly mulled axing Apple's pro products - Page 3

post #81 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The first Mac in 1984 cost the equivalent of $5,000 in today's dollars. I suspect that lots of prosumers will consider the new Mac Pro at a $5K or below price point... I know I will.

 

 

In 1984 we really only had two choices: A Mac or a 286. The Mac did layout well with minimum fuss and cost a lot. The 286 did the same task but not as well and with more hassle but cost much less.

 

The new Mac Pro doesn't exist in a world in which there's only one other choice. We now have a whole spectrum of choices with varying degrees of capability, ease-of-use and price, so people won't necessarily line up in droves for an expensive device, even if it IS very, very powerful. Some will, but others will simply choose compromise alternatives because in 2013 the alternatives tend to pretty capable themselves.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Avid Pro Tools and other Avid products work on Thunderbolt as Avid themselves have been demonstrating.

http://www.magma.com/blog/avid-approves-magma-eb3t-eb7-pro-tools

 

Yeah, but it's yet another piece of long coin I either have to save, amortize or squeeze out of a bean counter.

 

I get the rest of your point, and if your numbers are correct (Judges?) it's not a world ender. It's not a non-issue either though.

 

At least it can be solved just by throwing money at it! To some that will be great relief. To others that's still going to be frustrating though, because it adds another expense to the cost of an already expensive device, on top of also having to buy new storage media.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Retina Macbook Pro lets you pick what resolution you prefer. If you like the UI big, drop to 1440x900, if you like more workspace, bump it to 1920x1200 or for a balance, go with 1680x1050.
 

How does it look at resolutions that aren't the exact multiple?


Edited by v5v - 8/10/13 at 5:25pm
post #83 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The first Mac in 1984 cost the equivalent of $5,000 in today's dollars. I suspect that lots of prosumers will consider the new Mac Pro at a $5K or below price point... I know I will.


In 1984 we really only had two choices: A Mac or a 286. The Mac did layout well with minimum fuss and cost a lot. The 286 did the same task but not as well and with more hassle but cost much less.

The new Mac Pro doesn't exist in a world in which there's only one other choice. We now have a whole spectrum of choices with varying degrees of capability, ease-of-use and price, so people won't necessarily line up in droves for an expensive device, even if it IS very, very powerful. Some will, but others will simply choose compromise alternatives because in 2013 the alternatives tend to pretty capable themselves.

Another way to look at the cost:

In Sept 1984 AAPL was selling for $26.50 -- so you'd have to sell ~100 shares of AAPL to buy that $2,500 Original Mac.

If you held those shares you would have 800 shares after 3 2:1 splits or stock worth $454.45 x 800 ~= $363.500.

I suspect you'll be able to buy a new Mac Pro by selling 10-20 shares of AAPL or using 2-4 quarters AAPL dividends @ $3.05 per share per quarter.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/10/13 at 4:57pm
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post #84 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The thing that affects some people the most is lack of GPU upgrades. People who buy older/cheaper Mac Pros and then upgrade the GPUs to brand new ones or just extend the life of their machine by buying a GPU themselves can't do this any more. This is better from Apple's point of view because it means that people who want a new GPU have to buy a new Mac Pro instead of doing a DIY upgrade where they make no money at all.

I'm not sure what percentage of Mac Pro buyers ever upgrade their GPU, anyway.

Besides, with the resale value of Macs, it's just as easy to sell your old one and buy a new one in a few years - and having most of your storage external makes that even easier.

I wouldn't be surprised if this machine is less expansive than the old one, anyway. It could really surprise people when it comes out.
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post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

 

That's a commonly misunderstood statement, in my opinion.

 

Ford was right. His customers were not forward-thinking or imaginative enough to envision the automobile. They did express what they wanted though, and Ford listened.

 

Customers didn't care whether or not they used horses. The operative part of the phrase was "faster." They didn't say "cars" because there was no such thing. Ford came up with a way to give them "faster horses."

 

The quote is often presented as evidence that customers don't know what's good for them, but that's not the lesson I take away from it at all. The way I see it, Ford was saying the successful company will be the one that can listen to what its customers are saying, find the fundamental element that matters to them, then deliver it.

 

I disagree with the above emphasized part of your post.

I never mistook Ford's quote to mean anything like that. I have never even heard Ford's quote expressed as "...what's good for them." Where are you getting that from? 

 

I think Ford's quote means exactly what he said... customers wouldn't have thought up the automobile. Or the first Mac. Or the first click-wheel iPod. Or the first iPhone. Or whatever Steve Jobs had in mind when he said he finally cracked TV.

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post #86 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I'm not sure what percentage of Mac Pro buyers ever upgrade their GPU, anyway.

Besides, with the resale value of Macs, it's just as easy to sell your old one and buy a new one in a few years - and having most of your storage external makes that even easier.

I wouldn't be surprised if this machine is less expansive than the old one, anyway. It could really surprise people when it comes out.

They would probably upgrade then entire box.

 

Yeah, having external storage and PCI chassis make it easier when upgrading the base system, plus people can only buy what they need and take forward the external devices to new boxes.  There's always a trade off, I just think that some people are stuck in the traditional tower is better concept because that's what they are used to.

post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I have never even heard Ford's quote expressed as "...what's good for them." Where are you getting that from?

 

Apple Insider forums. Not you, but at least two other people.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I think Ford's quote means exactly what he said... customers wouldn't have thought up the automobile. Or the first Mac. Or the first click-wheel iPod. Or the first iPhone. Or whatever Steve Jobs had in mind when he said he finally cracked TV.

 

I agree with you.

 

post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBP17Developer View Post

NEW CUSTOMERS CAN'T VISUALLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 17"MBP and 15"MPB,

HENCE, NEW CUSTOMERS DON'T EVEN KNOW 17" MBP EXISTS

 

By the way, one of the reason why the 17" didn't sell well is because you can't visually see the difference between a 15"MBP and 17"MBP.

 

If you stand at the front door of an Apple Store when they had the 17", could you easily see where the 17"MBP's where located?

Even if you were standing next to the table with 15" and 17" MBPs, could you easily see the difference?

Only when it's directly side by side could you see the difference.

 

How can you sell the 17"MBP when NEW CONSUMERS don't even know it exists in the first place?

Could NEW CONSUMER of APPLE see at a coffee shop if a professional had a 17"MBP?

Most likely, no, they cannot.

 

Hence, how can a new customer confidently purchase a 17"MBP if they don't see others using a 17"MBP?

Can new customers even ask someone at a coffee shop about a 17"MBP on whether it's worth the price or value

if they can't see WHO at the coffee shop to ask in the first place?

 

LOL. No. And I'm laughing at the naked ridiculousness of above argument.

You're kidding, right? The 17" MBP was the largest, heaviest, and most expensive MBP SKU available.

 

Has it never occurred to you that most people think the price, weight, battery-life, and screen-size trade-off sweet spot is not the 17" model?

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post #89 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




13.6" x 9.6" x 10.9"              9.9" x .6.6"            9.9" x 7.7" x 7.3"



Not quite to scale... but close enough!

That last one is a RAID enclosure, not a workstation though, if this was an IQ quiz, you'd need to ask which of these aren't the same type of machine. 

post #90 of 130
I think a lot of people overlook the value-added that professional hardware and software offers for the consumer level. As an aspirational brand, Apple's consumer level products have a boost when the professionals use Apple products. The perception that professional designers, photographers, animators, filmmakers and creative professionals relied on Apple products I think certainly helped maintain consumer sales, especially in the learner, pre-iPod years.
post #91 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





13.6" x 9.6" x 10.9"              9.9" x .6.6"            9.9" x 7.7" x 7.3"




Not quite to scale... but close enough!
That last one is a RAID enclosure, not a workstation though, if this was an IQ quiz, you'd need to ask which of these aren't the same type of machine. 


I was attempting to match the sizes of things that I might have on my desktop. There is no way I'd have a current Mac Pro on my desktop or even on the back bar -- but the new Mac Pro is something else.,
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/10/13 at 6:51pm
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post #92 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs View Post

So a $2500 pro computer is way expensive and only a very small niche market purchases it, resulting in a product with little profits, while a $600 phone is so cheap, cheap, cheap, that it sells better than toilet paper.

It's obvious what it makes it a niche isn't the price. Otherwise the iPhone would have a niche market.

The iPhone is subsidised and still 1/5th of the price of the entry Mac Pro, which doesn't come with a display. It's not the only factor because if a lot of people needed the power, they'd pay more for it. Fewer and fewer people need the extra power and aren't willing to pay more for something they don't need. That's why this design makes sense because inevitably, people will gradually migrate down the products the more that the cheaper machines satisfy people's power needs and this gives people an easy jumping off point because once you have the external peripherals, they can be switched out easily for a MBP, iMac etc. It means people don't have any obligation to hold onto hardware for long periods of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v 
We now have a whole spectrum of choices with varying degrees of capability, ease-of-use and price, so people won't necessarily line up in droves for an expensive device, even if it IS very, very powerful. Some will, but others will simply choose compromise alternatives because in 2013 the alternatives tend to pretty capable themselves.

Some people did that with FCP and once they went to Premiere decided they weren't stuck to the Mac platform. For people who still prefer the Mac platform, there's not a suitable hardware alternative. I feel that OS X works far better for dealing with media than Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v 
At least it can be solved just by throwing money at it! To some that will be great relief. To others that's still going to be frustrating though, because it adds another expense to the cost of an already expensive device, on top of also having to buy new storage media.

I suspect there's going to be a 4K IGZO Thunderbolt display so I imagine people will have a lot of things to spend money on. The people who will suffer most are the people who typically buy the cheapest entry models in order to put expansion cards in because if the entry point is the same, they are down $600-1000 (the two full length card Sonnet box is $800), assuming there are no cheaper TB alternatives for their PCIe cards. I don't think storage is as big of a deal because there are USB 3 RAID boxes for $200 that will house 5 HDDs. Higher-end Thunderbolt storage has hardware RAID and drives included so selling the old Mac Pro and drives will recoup some of the expense.

It can't be too far off now before it's clear what the pricing is. IDF is about 4 weeks away:

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/idf-2013-what-to-expect-from-this-year-s-conference-1171689

"We hope, and fully expect, Intel TV (or whatever it's called) to be laid on the table during IDF. In announcing the service, Huggers said the group working on it was comprised of people from Apple, Netflix and Google. Add Intel's own tech savvy to the mix, and this sounds like a product with a lot of potential."

Thunderbolt 2 should be showcased, which means nothing left to wait for on the rest of the Apple lineup. Ivy Bridge EP Xeons should be on show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v 
How does it look at resolutions that aren't the exact multiple?

Apparently not as good as the exact multiples as you'd expect but people say it's better than native 1680x1050:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1387779

It'll be like watching 1080p resized to 720p on a 1080p display except with very small pixels vs 720p on a 720p display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta 
I wouldn't be surprised if this machine is less expansive than the old one, anyway. It could really surprise people when it comes out.

I think it could be less expensive, some think less expansive 1wink.gif. The entry price might not be lower but the highest 12-core that exceeds the performance of the current 12-core has a processor that will be over $1000 less. That may be offset by the extra GPU but it depends on how they do the BTO options. They could for example do the highest 12-core with dual W5000 for about $5k.
post #93 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

For people who still prefer the Mac platform, there's not a suitable hardware alternative.

 

I meant some people may choose an alternative Mac, not another platform.

 

For example, I run one machine as a headless render/transcoding box. Instead of a new ProTube, an i7 quad mini might be "good enough" for that task when the speed vs. cost comparison is done.

post #94 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I meant some people may choose an alternative Mac, not another platform.

For example, I run one machine as a headless render/transcoding box. Instead of a new ProTube, an i7 quad mini might be "good enough" for that task when the speed vs. cost comparison is done.

Yeah, that could be the case. If people aren't bothered about the GPU and have to get Thunderbolt peripherals anyway, a quad-core Mini could work out well enough. That would mean having a machine without a "Pro" label though and that would just too much for some people to cope with. The fans are also noisier on the Mini so for a quiet working environment, the iMac and Mac Pro would be better options.
post #95 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The 17" is typically described as a desktop replacement whereas the 15" isn't but when they are next to each other, there's very little practical difference:

 

Hm, around our house we think the difference is considerable and obvious. For years we've had one of each, and we both find the 17 much nicer to work on. That size at that resolution seems to hit a really nice UI scale, and because of the higher resolution the extra size provides more than just an extra inch of width.

 

We haven't tried a retina at 1650 yet though.

post #96 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

I've never met a pro, only posers claiming to pros. And posers abound on web forums. Real pros don't have the time. 

 

That's simply not true. Professional web designers, graphic artists, film editors, CAD users, 3D animators, etc. spend an exuberant amount of time in forums. This is how we learn new techniques, get solutions to problems, copy code, get ideas from existing code so we can finish projects quicker and learn to do things better. Do you think we just read a book or sit threw a class and are then all knowing. This forum might be a breeding ground for posers because it is for entertainment purposes but all you need to do is pick one of my listed professions above and do a simple search to see that there are 1,000's of forums that cater to them. Places where real professionals gather to seek each others council. Every time I write a program I always have a bunch of tabs populated with sites that are helpful to my project. So if I run into a problem in which I can't fix in a proper allotted amount of time, I do what ever other professional does, I go to a forum on the subject and ask.

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post #97 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think it could be less expensive, some think less expansive 1wink.gif. The entry price might not be lower but the highest 12-core that exceeds the performance of the current 12-core has a processor that will be over $1000 less. That may be offset by the extra GPU but it depends on how they do the BTO options. They could for example do the highest 12-core with dual W5000 for about $5k.

I"m going to go out on a limb and say that I think the entry price will be lower, as well. MP chips and motherboards are expensive - and this one doesn't need them. No more heavy machined aluminum case. Much smaller power supply. Elimination of a bunch of fans. Removal of all those trays for hard drives. I'll be surprised if it's not at least a couple hundred dollars less than the current lowest Mac Pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

LOL. No. And I'm laughing at the naked ridiculousness of above argument.
You're kidding, right? The 17" MBP was the largest, heaviest, and most expensive MBP SKU available.

Has it never occurred to you that most people think the price, weight, battery-life, and screen-size trade-off sweet spot is not the 17" model?

Has it ever occurred to you that something doesn't have to be "the sweet spot" in order to be useful? While I am sure that 17" is not the sweet spot, that doesn't mean that it's useless. Or should car makers only make one one type of car - since the others are not in the sweet spot? And maybe there should only be one size of cell phone because that's the sweet spot. And there's certainly no need for restaurants in different price ranges because most of them aren't in the sweet spot.

While the 17" is not mainstream, that doesn't mean that it isn't useful. Just that not enough people bought it to make it a viable product. Those of us who prefer the 17" can still wish for one.
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post #98 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng12 View Post

The return of the 17" MacBook Pro would be great. 4k screen, 16x10 aspect ratio, and the ability to have 2 PCI-e disks. If they can get 12 hours of runtime out of it, even better. I hope they are working on it. My current 2009 17" needs to last until they release something that can replace it.

Great? Define great.

Sell well? No.
Purposeful? No.
Target market? Miniscule.
Cost? Extreme

Define "Great"
post #99 of 130
Biggest "if" I've ever seen.
post #100 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Has it ever occurred to you that something doesn't have to be "the sweet spot" in order to be useful? While I am sure that 17" is not the sweet spot, that doesn't mean that it's useless. Or should car makers only make one one type of car - since the others are not in the sweet spot? And maybe there should only be one size of cell phone because that's the sweet spot. And there's certainly no need for restaurants in different price ranges because most of them aren't in the sweet spot.

While the 17" is not mainstream, that doesn't mean that it isn't useful. Just that not enough people bought it to make it a viable product. Those of us who prefer the 17" can still wish for one.

I was responding to the OP's contention that nobody knew Apple made a 17" MBP and therefore, sales were low. That is ridiculous. Sales were low because the 17" model is the least portable and least affordable: it's going to be a niche product. I didn't say anything about it being "not useful."

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post #101 of 130
That
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

I rather doubt that there will ever be be a 27" Macbook Pro. Don't you think that the 27" size would be counter to one of the major reasons why laptop / portables / tablets were created to begin with?

That was very obviously a typo.

Since the context was a 17" laptop. That's the size hoped for in a new retina version.

But thanks for your zeal in building a case based on a typo, regardless of the context that so easily reveals that.

That was... Entertaining.

Back to the original point, I seriously doubt the 17" didn't sell enough.

It's what I've seen most of at Barnes and noble, Starbucks, my contemporaries from other organizations, etc.

Retina screens were new. And expensive. 15" and 13" worked.

But no doubt there is a gpu performance hit compared to the old screens as well. Take that up to 17" and it would increase gpu demand. It's logical then to wait for you tech to be available that suits such demand with power to spare in a thin mobile enclosure.

The 17" likely just didn't fit with the tech/performance/price that apple was looking to improve upon. And even keeping the old 17" pro would look ridiculous if the new hotness has a smaller screen.

Apple is notorious also for saying whatever they want in order to justify their product decisions.

A new 17" retina would only be a plus. No downside.
Edited by 9secondko - 8/11/13 at 11:47am
post #102 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Back to the original point, I seriously doubt the 17" didn't sell enough.

It's what I've seen most of at Barnes and noble, Starbucks, my contemporaries from other organizations, etc.

I seriously doubt that. Reports at the time that it was canceled were that only 3% of MBPs were 17".

APPLE obviously thought it didn't sell enough to keep around. I suspect that they know just a bit more about their sales than you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Retina screens were new. And expensive. 15" and 13" worked.

But no doubt there is a gpu performance hit compared to the old screens as well. Take that up to 17" and it would increase gpu demand. It's logical then to wait for you tech to be available that suits such demand with power to spare in a thin mobile enclosure.

The 17" likely just didn't fit with the tech/performance/price that apple was looking to improve upon. And even keeping the old 17" pro would look ridiculous if the new hotness has a smaller screen.

Apple is notorious also for saying whatever they want in order to justify their product decisions.

A new 17" retina would only be a plus. No downside.

Nonsense. Of course there's a downside. It costs money to produce a new product. It adds to inventory levels. It adds to spare parts inventories at Apple Stores. And there's an overhead cost to product proliferation. Arguing that there's only a plus to introducing an additional product indicates that you don't know what you're talking about.
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post #103 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I seriously doubt that. Reports at the time that it was canceled were that only 3% of MBPs were 17"..

Was that Apple that said that or an analyst? Serious question as I don't know.
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post #104 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I seriously doubt that. Reports at the time that it was canceled were that only 3% of MBPs were 17"..

Was that Apple that said that or an analyst? Serious question as I don't know.

Apple doesn't give out breakdowns, especially products that don't sell well but the analyst that noted that actually predicted the discontinuation of the 17" before it happened:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/23/apple-predicted-to-discontinue-17-inch-macbook-pro/

He also mentioned an Air/MBP hybrid, which of course was the Retina Macbook Pro and that launched in June, 2 months later.

You can sort of work out volumes from Apple's revenue and unit shipments. In their quarterly filing before they dropped the 17", they reported $3.646b revenue on 3.010m units for laptops, which means $1211 average revenue per unit. That means the bulk of the laptops are towards the lower end of the $999-2499 scale. The 17" started at $2499 and if it was above 5%, the averages just couldn't reach $1211 without being offset by an unrealistic amount of entry laptop sales.

It's the same story with the Mac Pro sales volume (people who have them assume lots of other people must have one too). Apple decided to make another revision but it has a stronger unique selling point, which is that it will be as much as 3x faster than an iMac. The 17" MBP's USP is only that it is 1.6" bigger. No extra workspace any more vs the 15", no extra performance, just a bit bigger. Given that they'd make the same profit from one 17" as 2.5 Macbook Airs, they'd only really need 10% to make half the money, which would probably be enough to justify it. When it goes below 5%, there's not really that much incentive. It's not as if every 17" owner will switch to another platform. I reckon most people who are committed to the platform enough to spend $2500 on an Apple laptop would eventually settle with a 15" even if it wasn't their preference.
post #105 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple doesn't give out breakdowns, especially products that don't sell well...

(Headslap!)
Yeah that was a dumb question in hindsight. No one breaks out specific product numbers unless they're attention-getting. Thanks for the detailed response.
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post #106 of 130
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I rode around Cupertino/Sunnyvale with Woz in his just tuned Porsche with a [then] top speed of 13 mph...

I smoked a cigarette in front of John Draper AKA Cap'n Crunch -- and got screamed at (in my own store)...

Cool! But who is Cap'n Crunch?
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post #107 of 130
There was a video posted on macrumors today showing John Lasseter accepting an award on Steve's behalf:



He describes some of Steve's involvement in the process of making some of their first movies. He mentions a few things that have been said a few times before but the story of the timelessness of movies vs computer hardware is quite important. This is something Steve realised back then and it still applies now. Although consumers plan computer purchases for today, a company selling computers has to plan for what's happening in a decade or more.

When you see where we've come in 30 years, what does a professional computer even look like in another 30 years? Like an Apple TV? What happens when they can't shrink things down any more after about 10 years? I assume they just make things cheaper and cheaper until they get like appliances and are mostly the same from one year to another.
post #108 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng12 View Post

The return of the 17" MacBook Pro would be great. 4k screen, 16x10 aspect ratio...

 

As someone who despises 16x10 ratio screens please convince me of the error of my ways.

 

When did we all stop working with portrait oriented text documents and become HD video editors?

post #109 of 130

Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post
Cool! But who is Cap'n Crunch?

 

Shock and horror. I'm certain you're older than me, and yet that makes me feel old. 1tongue.gif

 

He's the guy who discovered the Cap'n Crunch whistle had the same tone as AT&T's long distance call system! He was the catalyst for Steve and Woz to make blue boxes!

 

Unless you meant "who's the cereal mascot". lol.gif

post #110 of 130
The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.
post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.

Why don't they buy the current model, available outside of the EU?
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post #112 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Shock and horror. I'm certain you're older than me, and yet that makes me feel old. 1tongue.gif


He's the guy who discovered the Cap'n Crunch whistle had the same tone as AT&T's long distance call system! He was the catalyst for Steve and Woz to make blue boxes!

Unless you meant "who's the cereal mascot". lol.gif

Ah, ok, maybe because was raised a Brit I missed that, yes I thought he was a cereal box character but didn't see the connection. Thanks for the education. I just turned 35 by the way. 1smile.gif
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I rode around Cupertino/Sunnyvale with Woz in his just tuned Porsche with a [then] top speed of 13 mph...

I smoked a cigarette in front of John Draper AKA Cap'n Crunch -- and got screamed at (in my own store)...

Cool! But who is Cap'n Crunch?


John Draper AKA Cap'n Crunch was the original Phone Phreak..



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Draper


So I am told: In the early days of Apple (and a little before), the 2 Steves and Draper were using 'blue boxes" to migrate through the AT&T phone exchanges and place "free" calls all over the world. In those days, the switching in the exchanges was done with audible tones. Draper discovered that the whistle from a box of Cap'n Crunch cereal had a pitch that allowed him to gain control of the switching...

Phone Phreaking was considered a joke or game by the 2 Steves and they moved on to bigger and better things. Draper, however, made it a cause celebres -- and was eventually caught and sent to a minimum-security prison

Draper continued programming in prison and wrote the first Word Processor for the IBM/PC (running MS DOS). EasyWriter was written in a programming language called Forth -- powerful but buggy.

Every month or so, Woz would pick up Draper and bring him into our Sunnyvale store so he could continue working on EasyWriter (we also sold IBM PCs). Usually, they were accompanied by the likes of Andy Hertzfeld and Tog -- so we and our customers had access to some celebrities *.

Draper always was sloppily dressed and disheveled -- he looked like he just escaped being a captive somewhere. Draper was oblivious to others' needs and demanded silence (so he could concentrate) and would scream if anybody smoked.

Here, Woz shined... He would talk to Draper as a kid: "Now John, you must keep your voice down... there are others here...".

Anyway, a Draper session in our store usually lasted 3-4 hours and was interesting to say the least.


EasyWriter used a feature in Forth that pre-buffered "pages" of text and provided a rather elegant way (for its time) to quickly page up/down by a full page of text (as opposed to line-by-line scrolling). The screen would go blank for 1/2 second, then the top of the next (or previous) page would be displayed (no full-page graphic interfaces, yet **).

Anyway, Draper always was fussing with this "page display" feature -- it seemed that every update (and there were quite a few) to Forth or MS DOS would break his code. Typically, when he came to the store, he would install all the latest updates and then test his code... It was almost predictable -- after an hour or so of swapping floppies, applying updates, rebooting... The moment would arrive! Draper would launch EasyWriter, open a long document, scroll around a bit -- then hit one of the page buttons. The screen would go blank for 1/2 second... 1 second... 5 seconds... At this point Draper would throw a tantrum -- stomping around the store screaming ...

Picture it: a troll-like visage with blank eyes, flailing about, screaming...


Our staff and regular customers * were aware of this tendency, so it was not too disruptive!


* In those days, techies tended to "hang out" in computer stores like ours -- just to see "wha's happening' man?"

** Early Word Processors gratuitously defined themselves as WYSIWYG (pronounced Wizzy-Wig) for What You See Is What You Get!   But the pages were displayed in fixed size letters on displays of 40-80 characters of 12-24 lines...   I made a joke that they should really call it WYGIWYW (pronounced Wiggy-Woo) for What You Ge Isn't What You Want!


Ahh... Good times!
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/12/13 at 11:25am
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post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.

I suspect that you are totally wrong.

You can put it on the floor, in a cart, on a back bar or on the desk along with a Pegasus RAID or 2.

I also can envision this form factor being used to house a home server / backup intermediary to iCloud.
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post #115 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Why don't they buy the current model, available outside of the EU?

I'm sure they'll buy the current model, but down the road as the new xeon chips and gnu become available it'll make sense to build hackintoshes with bigger more expandable cases. Heck pick up an empty Mac pro case and modify it to build a hackintosh pro tower. It will cost less and offer more.

Along with a Mac Pro hackintosh with the latest parts its would also be possible to build 1U rack mount servers using the latest xeons. Definitely easier then mounting a can
post #116 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.

Pros don't want a cobbled-together kludge, either.

I've built and used a Hackintosh. Even using perhaps the best laptop for Hackintosh use (HP Probook 4730s), it was a mess. Things that didn't work right, things that worked for a while and then stopped, and no ability to upgrade until some hacker got around to fixing things. And at least 20 times as much time supporting the computer as using a real Mac.

Any pro who needs more power than the Mac Pro can't afford a kludge like that.
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post #117 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.

Pros don't want a cobbled-together kludge, either.

I've built and used a Hackintosh. Even using perhaps the best laptop for Hackintosh use (HP Probook 4730s), it was a mess. Things that didn't work right, things that worked for a while and then stopped, and no ability to upgrade until some hacker got around to fixing things. And at least 20 times as much time supporting the computer as using a real Mac.

Any pro who needs more power than the Mac Pro can't afford a kludge like that.


Here's a short 8 1/2 minute video by Michael Cioni -- The Pro's Pro:

Don't tell the ending... "No one will be seated during the last 2 minutes!"



Likely that top-end pros will use multiple Mac Pros -- just as they do today.
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post #118 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Pros don't want a cobbled-together kludge, either.

I've built and used a Hackintosh. Even using perhaps the best laptop for Hackintosh use (HP Probook 4730s), it was a mess. Things that didn't work right, things that worked for a while and then stopped, and no ability to upgrade until some hacker got around to fixing things. And at least 20 times as much time supporting the computer as using a real Mac.

Any pro who needs more power than the Mac Pro can't afford a kludge like that.

What type of pro needs more power than the new MacPro?  They may want more power, but it's very fast, and I'm sure with the optimizations of 10.9, it will do just fine.

post #119 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Pros don't want a cobbled-together kludge, either.


I've built and used a Hackintosh. Even using perhaps the best laptop for Hackintosh use (HP Probook 4730s), it was a mess. Things that didn't work right, things that worked for a while and then stopped, and no ability to upgrade until some hacker got around to fixing things. And at least 20 times as much time supporting the computer as using a real Mac.


Any pro who needs more power than the Mac Pro can't afford a kludge like that.
What type of pro needs more power than the new MacPro?  They may want more power, but it's very fast, and I'm sure with the optimizations of 10.9, it will do just fine.

I can see uses of multiple Mac Pros in render farms for 4K and 5K video.

"Too much -- is never enough!" -- New Orleans Anonymous

"The only time I say no is when they ask if I've had enough!" -- Mae West
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post #120 of 130
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post
The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.

 

They sure do like completely unstable hardware for their ludicrously important work, though! 1oyvey.gif

 

Who are you to say what they want? The case design is meaningless.


Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
I can see uses of multiple Mac Pros in render farms for 4K and 5K video.

"Too much -- is never enough!" -- New Orleans Anonymous

"The only time I say no is when they ask if I've had enough!" -- Mae West

 

Is it just me, or is your sidebar font for just that post thinner? Oh, Huddler…

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